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Dear Alice,

Until recently, I thought I could write whatever I thought might be a subject to

learn from around this fire. I am somewhat intimidated at the moment , and not

at all sure that still holds....and do not want to start a rush of

whatever....unpleasantness..

I guess however, my interest will overshadow my fear of being trounced.

This is my thinking, and it may be circular.

We believe we can influence others ....we send healing energy, prayers, love,

and actually believe the energy will transfer...at least you do, and I do.

So now we have a huge calamity....100,000 thought to have died all told, far

away on the other side of the world.

Wouldn't it be logical to conclude, that the same dynamic which emits love and

healing, can also cause natural acts to take place in some way I do not

understand?

The collective consciousness has power and energy. The collective unconscious

likewise.Have we human used that energy to bring calamity on some of us....no

not consciously, I think, but just as we assume some responsibility for our

health of mind and body, and we say 'there are no coincident are we not left

with collective responsibility for what happens on this earth?

I don't think calling this " an act of G-d " is truthful. I think all of us

together, through violent, negative thinking, depression, power, whatever, bring

events into being.

That of course, sounds as if we are blaming the victims, which I suppose we

are...along with the rest of humanity.But we are all the victims in such an

event. We are all One, I maintain, so.....

I cannot see my way out of this? Either I believe we influence others,( when 2

or 3 are gathered together....) or we don't. If all the energy of ours on this

earth were concentrated, could we not cause a tidal wave? Again, I don't see

humanity as evil and therefore conspiring to kill 100,000 people. Not at all.

But unconsciously, without awareness of where that negative energy could lead,

could we or couldn't we? We have free will. There is no power that will stop us

from using it to destroy ourselves or others, as we see everyday....

This is an unconscious act for all of us on this earth or......what? We have

no influence over the lives of others for good or ill. And then, are only

positive thoughts, prayers, energy sent...that is hard for me to believe.

So if there are no coincident on this earth, and I cannot see blaming the All,

the One for destroying his own creation,nor some kind of 'punishment " from an

angry Being.I simply do not believe that according to my faith.

I am curious if anyone else has gone down this trail as we watched in horror the

destruction of so much. And if we consider ourselves (humanity) guilty for the

wars we create, do we not have a responsibility here?

If my thinking is off somewhere, I wish someone would set me straight. This

weighs on my mind. We are One, and what happens in Asia affects me in America.

love,

Toni

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In a message dated 12/30/2004 10:00:55 AM Central Standard Time,

omagramps410@... writes:

>I don't think calling this " an act of G-d " is truthful. I think all of us

together, through >violent, negative thinking, depression, power, whatever,

bring events into being.

_by Sara Yoheved Rigler_

(_http://www.aish.com/search/article_search_results.asp_

(http://www.aish.com/search/article_search_results.asp) ?

A spiritual response to disaster.

Born in 1948, I have never experienced a catastrophe as massive and sudden

as

the earthquake/tsunamis that, at last count, have killed more than 60,000

people. Living in Israel during the terror war of the last few years, I have

unfortunately become accustomed to crying at the funerals of children. But

to

read of hundreds of children together being buried in mass graves staggers

my

mind and batters my heart. How should/can/does one respond to a tragedy this

enormous?

A young Israeli traveling in Thailand when the tsunami hit reported to his

family that there was no panic among the local people. They are Buddhists,

he

explained, and believe in the Law of Karma. They accept their fate.

The Law of Karma holds that nothing that occurs to human beings is random.

Rather, a meticulous law of cause and effect, action and reaction,

determines

that, as Americans would say, “Whatever goes around, comes around.†Human

actions create effects that, sooner or later, like the tsunami itself

building

up over time and distance, strike with shattering force.

Certain elements of this idea are consistent with Judaism. Certainly, there

is no randomness in the universe, and human conduct sets in motion spiritual

forces which eventually manifest in physical effects, revolving back on

human

beings themselves.

Judaism, however, differs from the Law of Karma in significant ways. First

of

all, the Law of Karma is strictly personal; an individual who steals will be

stolen from, in this incarnation or the next or the next. The individual’s

dishonesty will revolve back only on him/herself. It cannot cause others to

suffer. Although there is a concept of group karma, here too the boomerang

flies back to the hands that threw it; only the perpetrators become the

victims.

Judaism, on the other hand, credits human action with a much broader effect.

A person stealing $100 in Tel Aviv lowers the moral fiber in Mexico City and

could encourage massive embezzlement in Melbourne. Conversely, a person

doing

a mitzvah in Haifa may avert an auto accident in London or prevent

complications during open-heart surgery in Los Angeles. The spiritual

channels of

effect run far below the surface, untraceable but powerful.

Spiritual forces, like ocean waves, do not lose their power over distance.

ABILITY TO CHANGE

A second major difference is that karma is inexorable; a misdeed once

committed is, as they say in India, like the tusks of an elephant. It can

never be

retracted. Judaism, on the contrary, teaches the concept of teshuva.

Teshuva

means that a person can regret and change his/her mode of conduct, and when

s/he does, the past actions are spiritually erased. In fact, if one does

teshuva from pure love of God, the subterranean channel, the river of fire,

turns

into a positive force, a river of sweet water.

This is precisely what Judaism endorses as a response to disaster. The

Talmud

says that when one suffers, one should scrutinize one’s deeds, implying that

teshuva for wrong conduct can change one’s fortune. And what if one is not

directly affected, but only hears about a disaster that occurred in a

distant

place? The Talmud asserts that if a person even hears about a disaster such

as an earthquake, one must relate to the tragedy by examining one’s own

deeds.

It is appropriate to respond to the present Hiroshima-scale disaster by

contributing money to aid the relief effort, but physical action should not

preclude a spiritual response as well. When you ask yourself, “What can I do?

â€

here are some spiritual responses:

1. Allow yourself to mourn for the tragic loss of life. Do not

emotionally distance yourself by burying your heart in the internet news.

Feel the

pain.

2. Recognize the fragility -- and therefore the preciousness -- of life.

The people on the beaches of southeast Asia that day had no warning that

this would be their final hour. Neither will we. Appreciate the

preciousness of

every hour.

3. Recognize the spiritual effect of every action you do -- not just on

yourself but on the world. Petty lying, stealing, cheating, gossip,

promiscuity, and exploitation set in motion waves of negativity. When many

people

engage in such actions, those waves can build up into tidal waves.

4. Change one action. Undertake to do a new mitzvah or eschew one kind

of negative behavior. This is a better defensive measure than any early

warning system.

Maimonides asserts that one who fails to respond to suffering by doing

teshuva is cruel. The implication is that we have it within our power to

stop

human suffering. How can we look at the pictures of bodies on the beaches

-- each

of whom is someone’s beloved relative -- and not be willing to undertake

whatever we can to ward off the next calamity?

In the wake of the catastrophe, CNN.com treated its readers to speculation

by

a noted seismologist that a volcano erupting in the Canary Islands could

cause landslides that would send a tsunami hurtling across the Atlantic

Ocean

with enough force to destroy New York City. Judaism would add that such a

scenario is not a matter of fate, nor of geological upheavals, nor of

random

forces. It is in our power, by the moral choices we make, to prevent the

next

disaster.

Share your thoughts and feelings in the comment section below.

This article can also be read at:

(http://www.aish.com/societyWork/society/Reacting_to_the_Tsunami.asp)

Author Biography:

Sara Yoheved Rigler is a graduate of Brandeis University. Her spiritual

journey took her to India and through fifteen years of teaching Vedanta

philosophy and meditation. Since 1987, she has been practicing Torah

Judaism. A

writer, she resides in the Old City of Jerusalem with her husband and

children. Her

articles have appeared in: Jewish Women Speak about Jewish Matters, Chicken

Soup for the Jewish Soul, and Heaven on Earth.

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Toni & All,

I, too, have a very difficult time calling this tragedy an " act of G-d. "

And I have also wondered if the collective negative energy (as well as

positive, prayerful energy as well) of humankind might influence the natural

world. (Actually, I am convinced that it does.) However, I think it is

virtually impossible to place a definitive " causal factor " on a disaster of

such immensity. It also weighs on me that such a disaster should befall

people who already seem to have so little. But that's very " American " of

me, isn't it? We have so much in material wealth yet our western culture is

so impoverished in the " treasures of the heart. " ( A voice in my head keeps

saying, " if this is some kind of punishment, why not US? " ) But I cannot

bring myself to believe it is Divine punishment - - yet if Gaia is a living

organism, she is suffering and she surely is angry and desperate for our

attention. I also cannot help but think of all the apparitions of that

have been occurring in the past century, and of her supposed " warnings " to

humankind that great disasters will befall us if we do not turn to G-d. As

you can see, my mind is a muddle as well. I do very much appreciate what

Alice has said about the Transcendent Function, and I pray that her hopes

for that kind of an outcome are fulfilled! We seem to be living in a time

of great peril and of great possibility.

For now, all I seem to be able to do is pray, do my own inner work with

great fierceness, and send all the financial help that I can. (And of

course, continue to struggle for some " answers. " )

Acts of God?

>

> Dear Alice,

>

> Until recently, I thought I could write whatever I thought might be a

> subject to learn from around this fire. I am somewhat intimidated at the

> moment , and not at all sure that still holds....and do not want to start

> a rush of whatever....unpleasantness..

>

> I guess however, my interest will overshadow my fear of being trounced.

>

> This is my thinking, and it may be circular.

>

> We believe we can influence others ....we send healing energy, prayers,

> love, and actually believe the energy will transfer...at least you do, and

> I do.

>

> So now we have a huge calamity....100,000 thought to have died all told,

> far away on the other side of the world.

>

> Wouldn't it be logical to conclude, that the same dynamic which emits love

> and healing, can also cause natural acts to take place in some way I do

> not understand?

>

> The collective consciousness has power and energy. The collective

> unconscious likewise.Have we human used that energy to bring calamity on

> some of us....no not consciously, I think, but just as we assume some

> responsibility for our health of mind and body, and we say 'there are no

> coincident are we not left with collective responsibility for what happens

> on this earth?

>

> I don't think calling this " an act of G-d " is truthful. I think all of us

> together, through violent, negative thinking, depression, power, whatever,

> bring events into being.

>

> That of course, sounds as if we are blaming the victims, which I suppose

> we are...along with the rest of humanity.But we are all the victims in

> such an event. We are all One, I maintain, so.....

>

> I cannot see my way out of this? Either I believe we influence others,(

> when 2 or 3 are gathered together....) or we don't. If all the energy of

> ours on this earth were concentrated, could we not cause a tidal wave?

> Again, I don't see humanity as evil and therefore conspiring to kill

> 100,000 people. Not at all.

>

> But unconsciously, without awareness of where that negative energy could

> lead, could we or couldn't we? We have free will. There is no power that

> will stop us from using it to destroy ourselves or others, as we see

> everyday....

> This is an unconscious act for all of us on this earth or......what? We

> have no influence over the lives of others for good or ill. And then, are

> only positive thoughts, prayers, energy sent...that is hard for me to

> believe.

>

> So if there are no coincident on this earth, and I cannot see blaming the

> All, the One for destroying his own creation,nor some kind of 'punishment "

> from an angry Being.I simply do not believe that according to my faith.

>

> I am curious if anyone else has gone down this trail as we watched in

> horror the destruction of so much. And if we consider ourselves (humanity)

> guilty for the wars we create, do we not have a responsibility here?

>

> If my thinking is off somewhere, I wish someone would set me straight.

> This weighs on my mind. We are One, and what happens in Asia affects me in

> America.

>

> love,

> Toni

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

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, all,

I am among the group that would reason with considerable rigor that

the tsunami was caused by a shift in the sub-oceanic plates. The

metaphoric organism 'Gaia' may be more alive than I can ascertain,

but, the assumption that humankind has an influence on those plates

at the scale suggested in your post, , would presumptively beg

questions about those implied causal relations; especially about what

their actual nature is, and, to what appropriation of scale and

effect they are oriented by and to.

But, you're not alone.

http://www.godhatesfags.com/fliers/dec2004/Tsunami_12-29-2004.pdf

Westboro Baptist Church http://www.godhatesfags.com/main/faq.html

***

It is long standing in the belief system that holds God to be

directly involved in all planetary events, and, that also, short of

the kind of involvement to which a specific 'material' (or

anthropomorphic,) God might implement, that humankind is the vice

regent of said God, and is, then, consciously and unconsciously

capable of magnificent causal agency at every scale.

This said, in supposing a concretization of actual agency at the

level of God, (requiring a real " chain of being " about which our

psyche imagines its 'echo',) we do have the response in analytic

psychology, found both in the particulars of Dr. Jung and elsewhere,

and, especially in Von Franz's and Esther Harding's writing about the

psychological concepts, respectively, of " magical thinking, " and

" hypostasis " .

This thought form is versioned and is paramount in the conceptual

structure, also, of traditionalism, where it takes the epochal,

aeonic, turn, (in the work, for example, of Guenon,) and does so with

resonation to some of the questions left unanswered in analytic

psychology. Highly conceptualized in this version of esotericism,

this form also expresses an ancient, archaic mythologem, obviously

crucial in the old testament, in the vedanta, and generally

expressive of the pattern that destruction is required for their to

be any evolution of creation at all. Thus: this is among the oldest,

if not the oldest, mythological form.

***

I would note the questions begged are non-trivial. If, in this mode,

catastrophic events are not punishments, then what are they about?

Even if the answer is provisional, one would expect that the

ramification of the answer extends itself through other human

affairs. But, if so, to what 'end'?

To my mind the implication that spirituality is the conscious

response to some form of wrath is very old school, very simple,

(simple enough!) and, if it isn't true, is very much, then, the form

a human enough complex is disposed to adhere to.

regards,

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all,

The forwarded piece by Sara states,

>Certainly, there

>is no randomness in the universe

If there is no randomness there can be no non-randomness.

When I read illogical one-sidedness, I hope to later learn of some

redeeming sophisticated kernal. Perhaps due to my own incapacity I

don't find any in the piece.

Yet, the author has taught Vedanta! This is hardly surprising to me

for students flock to teachers. And, if the goal is to purge one's

self of all ability to think and feel for one's self, Ms. Rigler may

well be a superb 'pedagogue'.

regards,

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It's time to look deeper. There's something fishy going on...

Rosemary

..................

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=underwater+nuclear+tests

Web Results 1 - 10 of about 147,000 for underwater nuclear tests. (0.24

seconds)

DOE/NV - Nuclear Weapons Test Film Description (0800043)

.... The second part of the video shows an antisubmarine rocket (ASROC)

underwater nuclear

weapons-effects test, described as another proof test of a Navy nuclear

....

www.nv.doe.gov/news & pubs/ photos & films/0800043/default.htm - 9k - Cached -

Similar pages

Nat'l Academies Press, Technical Issues Related to the ...

.... Monitoring Underwater Nuclear Explosions. Underwater nuclear tests can

be monitored

by hydroacoustic, seismic, and radionuclide signals. ...

www.nap.edu/openbook/0309085063/html/51.html - 27k - Dec 27, 2004 - Cached

- Similar pages

Radiation Basics - Comprehensive Test Ban Treaty

.... How can nuclear tests be detected ... a variety of methods to detect

evidence of nuclear

testing. ... are employed to monitor the underground, underwater and

atmosphere ...

www.arpansa.gov.au/basics/ctbt.htm - 21k - Cached - Similar pages

US Nuclear Testing Program in the Marshall Islands

.... US NUCLEAR DETONATIONS IN THE MARSHALL ISLANDS. (Unless indicated

otherwise, stated

purpose of all tests was " Weapons ... 2, 7/24/46, Baker, Bikini,

Underwater (-90 ...

www.nuclearclaimstribunal.com/testing.htm - 49k - Cached - Similar pages

Nuclear Test-Ban Treaty

.... The treaty banned nuclear-weapons tests in the atmosphere, in outer

space, and

underwater but permitted underground testing and required no control

posts, no on ...

www.search.eb.com/elections/micro/431/76.html - 5k - Cached - Similar

pages

Nuclear testing - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

.... Nuclear weapons tests are generally classified as being either

" atmospheric " (in

or above the atmosphere), " underground, " or " underwater. " Of these ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_testing - 47k - Dec 27, 2004 - Cached -

Similar pages

BBC News | Sci/Tech | US nuclear test secrets brought to light

.... to nuclear fallout during these tests and people ... the deployment of

a lightweight

nuclear device designed ... navy diver who would detonate it underwater

and then ...

news.bbc.co.uk/hi/english/ sci/tech/newsid_42000/42212.stm - 21k - Cached

- Similar pages

Banning Nuclear Tests: Ike (Yes), JFK (Yes), Bush II (No)

.... underwater and in the atmosphere. The Limited Test Ban Treaty came on

the heels

of the Cuban Missile Crisis of 1962 and years of frequent nuclear testing.

....

www.lamberspublications.com/testban.htm - 19k - Cached - Similar pages

Arms Control Association: Arms Control Today

.... delayed, the more likely that nuclear testing will resume ... seabed

to pick out underwater

explosions vast ... is used to distinguish between nuclear tests and

natural ...

www.armscontrol.org/act/2004_10/CTBT.asp - 30k - Cached - Similar pages

Declassification of Yields of Nuclear Tests

.... 173 atmospheric plus 5 underwater nuclear tests have been ...

interested in oversight

of nuclear weapons testing ... additional information regarding yields of

tests. ...

www.osti.gov/html/osti/opennet/document/press/pc27.html - 9k - Cached -

Similar pages

Result Page:

1

2

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4

5

6

7

8

9

10

Next

..........

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/123004W.shtml

Tsunamis and Nuclear Power Plants

By D. Hoffman

t r u t h o u t | Perspective

Tuesday 28 December 2004

More than 60,000 people are dead. Bodies wash ashore in a dozen

countries. A train, loaded with a thousand passengers and their luggage,

is swept away, engine, tracks, and all. Cars, trucks, buses, and boats are

pushed more than a mile inland by the rushing water. Some of the waves

were reported to be 40 feet high.

The ocean in San Diego, 1/2 a world away, rose 10 inches. It IS a small

world, after all.

The " sea wall " at San Onofre Nuclear Generating Station ( " SONGS " ) in

Southern California is 35 feet tall, and about 35 years old. It could not

have withstood Sunday's worst.

San Onofre's twin reactors were theoretically designed to withstand an

earthquake up to 7.0, which is 100 times smaller than a 9.0 earthquake.

Although a 9.0 earthquake is considered " unlikely " near San Onofre, it is

hardly impossible. In addition, the size of the earthquake doesn't

necessarily relate to the size of the ensuing tsunami. Landslides

triggered by earthquakes, asteroid impacts, and volcanic eruptions can

generate waves hundreds of feet tall.

Why did we build nuclear power plants near the ocean, anyway, where they

are susceptible to underwater and surface attacks by terrorists and other

belligerents? Because nuclear power plants need enormous quantities of

water for their cooling systems, and water - especially in the western

United States - is usually difficult to find except along the shoreline.

The outflow from a nuclear power plant is always slightly contaminated

with radioactive particles, and sometimes severely so; people don't want

to drink that. So they put the plants near the oceans whenever possible.

Don't worry about tsunamis, they said - we've built you this puny little

wall. Don't worry about asteroid impacts - they hardly ever happen. Don't

worry about tornados or hurricanes. Don't worry about human error. So,

society agreed to these poisonous cauldrons of bubbling radioactivity

- these behemoths of death-rays ready to burst - these sitting ducks on

our shorelines.

Don't worry about tsunamis, they said - we've built you this puny little

wall. Don't worry about asteroid impacts - they hardly ever happen. Don't

worry about tornados or hurricanes. Don't worry about human error. So,

society agreed to these poisonous cauldrons of bubbling radioactivity -

these behemoths of death-rays ready to burst - these sitting ducks on our

shorelines.

These tsunami waves would have had little or no effect on floating

off-shore ocean wind energy farms (unless they were particularly close to

shore), nor would they effect OTEC (Ocean Thermal Energy Conversion) power

plants, or any other deep-sea energy solutions, because the tsunami waves

are harmless in deep water.

Even a 7.2 or a 7.3 earthquake - perfectly reasonable to expect in the

area around San Onofre, and possible anywhere - would be more powerful

than San Onofre is officially designed to withstand. Experience from the

Northridge quake (17 January 1994) and others shows that structures

sometimes fail to withstand earthquakes of magnitudes far less than their

designed tolerances. The domes at San Onofre might not be able to

withstand an earthquake or tsunami (or even a large jet crashing into

them). The spent fuel pools, control room, emergency diesel generators,

and dry storage casks are all outside the domes.

Sitting ducks indeed.

Maybe " unlikely " is good enough for some locations, who will bury their

thousands of dead and rebuild after a natural disaster, but where nukes

are located, " unlikely " is not good enough. Whatever damage a tsunami

might cause to renewable energy systems would be minor - even if it wiped

them out and they had to be rebuilt completely - compared to the

devastation that would result from breaching the reactor vessel, emptying

the spent fuel pool (or throwing heavy debris into it), or crushing the

dry casks.

Why are we risking such deadly disasters, when renewable energy is

available for the taking?

It's time to make the switch to renewable energy solutions. It's time to

close San Onofre Nuclear WASTE Generating Station, Diablo Canyon, and all

the other nuclear power plants.

The author, a computer programmer, has written extensively about nuclear

power. His essays have been translated into several different languages

and published in more than a dozen countries.

......................................................

>

> Toni & All,

>

> I, too, have a very difficult time calling this tragedy an " act of G-d. "

> And I have also wondered if the collective negative energy (as well as

> positive, prayerful energy as well) of humankind might influence the natural

> world. (Actually, I am convinced that it does.) However, I think it is

> virtually impossible to place a definitive " causal factor " on a disaster of

> such immensity. It also weighs on me that such a disaster should befall

> people who already seem to have so little. But that's very " American " of

> me, isn't it? We have so much in material wealth yet our western culture is

> so impoverished in the " treasures of the heart. " ( A voice in my head keeps

> saying, " if this is some kind of punishment, why not US? " ) But I cannot

> bring myself to believe it is Divine punishment - - yet if Gaia is a living

> organism, she is suffering and she surely is angry and desperate for our

> attention. I also cannot help but think of all the apparitions of that

> have been occurring in the past century, and of her supposed " warnings " to

> humankind that great disasters will befall us if we do not turn to G-d. As

> you can see, my mind is a muddle as well. I do very much appreciate what

> Alice has said about the Transcendent Function, and I pray that her hopes

> for that kind of an outcome are fulfilled! We seem to be living in a time

> of great peril and of great possibility.

> For now, all I seem to be able to do is pray, do my own inner work with

> great fierceness, and send all the financial help that I can. (And of

> course, continue to struggle for some " answers. " )

>

>

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Rosemary, all,

Oh my.

>It's time to look deeper. There's something fishy going on...

In the wash of google you've seemingly suggested that underwater

oceanic nuclear testing might have have some relation to the movement

of a massive wave of water in the Indian Ocean, itself the transduced

product of a fifty foot or more subduction (in this instance,) along

some portion of a 600 mile border between tectonic plates.

Maybe this isn't your implication. Anyway... Fortunately this

speculation is posed entirely within the realm of physical science

inasmuch as, were it not, any ol' grand idea might accomplish the

same.

The general physics involved are not complicated. (Visualize pushing

a shovel of wet snow through unshoveled snow; so: mass,

velocity/acceleration, displacement area, temperature,

'strain'/energy...coming to a release of energy in a resolution of

stress.)

For a nuclear explosion to be pertinent to an explanation of the

cause of this subduction, it would have to achieve the requisite

energies capable of inducing the cata-climactic event.

There is a heckuva lot of hard science on the energies involved. It

would seem to me much more sensible and parsimonious to rule

extraordinary potential causes 'in' based upon known physical

constraints.

One would find in having in hand those constraints, that earthquakes

share certain ranges in the magnitudes and combinations of their

(relatively,) *few* variables. More importantly, their causative and

released energies are well known.

Even though atomic bombs can shake the ground to a completely

measurable seismographic degree, (<7.0 ML), their potential for

causing large earthquakes (>6.0 ML) is -at bottom- a matter of the

achievement of energies and, crucially, conditions, that can induce

*specific* forms of climactic resolutions of stress concomitant with

the aforementioned necessary magnitude of variables.

(This is completely different than the fact of their being

commensurate release energies.)

***

I leave it to those interested in nuclear explosive causes to rule

them in or out simply as a matter of doing the math^.

Ummm...there is a correct answer+.

regards,

^incidentally, there was a famous controversy in 1970 between Peru

and France on the matter of bomb tests and earthquakes

+ hint: Bruce A. Bolt

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Dear Rosemary,

Thanks for your nudge. I would love it to have been something we can put our

finger on, and then know whom to blame.

It doesn't sound far fetched to me at all, but what do I know, I am no

scientist.

Horrorfied doesn't cover it My G-d, if this were really so.......I pray it

isn't, we cannot have been so stupid and blind!

Thanks for the heads up.

Toni

Re: Acts of God?

It's time to look deeper. There's something fishy going on...

Rosemary

.................

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=underwater+nuclear+tests

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Dear Toni,

This morning I put on the news at CNN and they were comparing the

devastation to an atomic blast!!!

I wonder if radiation levels have been gathered in the areas affected?

Whoever is out to convert the world of Islam to Christianity, couldn't

have picked a better location than Southeast Asia, to force their global

power agendas by initiating a massive disaster of " Biblical Proportions, "

the day after Christmas. I've heard from reliable sources that Christian

missionaries are gearing up to invade S.E. Asia in swarms!

Since 2000, there have been far too many synchronicities, including

the emergency number 9/11, for me to not perceive the possibility of

new millennium fanaticisms on both sides of the equation seeking

world domination, as a programmed and insidious display of armed

genocides, whether using jet airplanes or in final retaliation,

nuclear devices set off underwater to crush the so-called " enemy, "

which is seen as Islam by the western powers that be.

It's all reached a point, perhaps, of no return to any semblance of

a civilized world. Scientists are of little, if any, use in parsing

these probabilities. I've tried for years to tweak their idees-fix,

to little or no avail. They, like most collective groups, can't see the

forest for the trees. I wish it were as simple as placing blame on

perpetrators, who may be covertly operating way beyond any national

or governmental lines.

And yes, Toni, they do expect us to be " stupid and blind, " which of

course, we must resist with every fiber of our Individual Being.

Rosemary

...............

> Dear Rosemary,

>

> Thanks for your nudge. I would love it to have been something we can

put our finger on, and then know whom to blame.

>

> It doesn't sound far fetched to me at all, but what do I know, I am no

scientist.

>

> Horrorfied doesn't cover it My G-d, if this were really so.......I pray

it isn't, we cannot have been so stupid and blind!

>

> Thanks for the heads up.

> Toni

> Re: Acts of God?

>

> It's time to look deeper. There's something fishy going on...

>

> Rosemary

> .................

> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en & ie=ISO-8859-1 & q=underwater+nuclear+

tests

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>>Why are we risking such deadly disasters, when renewable energy is available

for the taking? >>

Indeed, indeed. A great head's up.

Alternatives are there. They're here, in fact. NOW. We just have to take them

up, turn away from what's easy and do it better. We just have to start now. We

don't have to be liberals, progressives, belong to any identity, church or

party. We just have to seek solutions.

Our leaders won't do it. They're aren't doing it. Why mess up a sweet deal --

one delivered on a silver platter? And so the world is ruled by a great mafia,

carving up their territories, using us: our blood, our labor. And we sit for it.

We do like our trinkets. The carrots a government might use to nudge us towards

better solutions are presently non existent. What is our nation's energy plan?

We're not even allowed to see it. And this goes back, this way of subverting,

controlling. Reagan came in, the energy plans went out. It's a long tradition,

and he didn't start it.

And so it goes.

And yet, our grand experiment limps along, one by one by one. But that's the way

it's always been. Onward and upward. Let no one smother the soul.

The thinking that these terrible mistakes and catastrophes are caused by human

will, as a punishment for our evil, our blackened souls -- please. Step back

from that. Jung would ask you to do that.

This making of demons and angels. They only exist when we create them. Our

energy, physical and psychical, is limited. Use it well, your gift.

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