Miralax forum

[Guest guest]

How many oaths are broken? Too many times to count!

Yvette A.

Miralax forum

This is an open letter to anyone reading this forum for the first time. There is a certain amount of opinion that is offered as fact on this forum. That is not to say that the people on this forum are intentionally trying to mislead. I do not believe they are. I do believe that there is a fair amount of bad information on this forum.

There are wonderful recipes and natural alternatives that are offered as well. There are good people who care about their children very much.

I am making this post for those of you who are new to Miralax, or have been using it for a while and are reading this forum for the first time.

There is very little objective evidence presented here. Do your own research, and challenge your doctors. Monitor your children. Beware of outrageous dosages. Go to a 2nd doctor if you have any doubt. You are ultimately responsible for your child's care.

It is SO difficult to understand medications and the human body. There isn't a more complex system that I know of than our bodies.

Doctors do their best, but they aren't infallible. But who are you going to trust? A professional who has taken the Hippocratic Oath, or a keyboard jockey like me with too much time on their hands?

[Guest guest]

I trust the moms/dads who are so intuned/instincts with there child even doctors cant match that! Jennie<><Subject: Miralax forumTo: miralax Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 6:25 AM

This is an open letter to anyone reading this forum for the first time. There is a certain amount of opinion that is offered as fact on this forum. That is not to say that the people on this forum are intentionally trying to mislead. I do not believe they are. I do believe that there is a fair amount of bad information on this forum.

There are wonderful recipes and natural alternatives that are offered as well. There are good people who care about their children very much.

I am making this post for those of you who are new to Miralax, or have been using it for a while and are reading this forum for the first time.

There is very little objective evidence presented here. Do your own research, and challenge your doctors. Monitor your children. Beware of outrageous dosages. Go to a 2nd doctor if you have any doubt. You are ultimately responsible for your child's care.

It is SO difficult to understand medications and the human body. There isn't a more complex system that I know of than our bodies.

Doctors do their best, but they aren't infallible. But who are you going to trust? A professional who has taken the Hippocratic Oath, or a keyboard jockey like me with too much time on their hands?

[Guest guest]

This keyboard jockey that happens to be a medical professional, finds this " open

letter " very offensive. I'm focusing on some favorable things that this member

" tried " to say, but then basically retracted at the end of the letter. Trusting

someone just because they've taken an oath? ...LOL...that's the funniest thing

I've heard in years. When's the last time you looked at your state medical board

website? We all know that MD's have no " formal " education regarding Miralax or

any other medication for that matter. We've been the test material for just

about every medication over time. I don't need to remind anyone of the problems

that arise after broad mainstream usage of newly introduced medicines. It's a

rare event that ALL info is provided (to MD's or consumers) about a product

before it's release and supposed thorough (ha-ha) study/trial. So, since we are

ill-informed consumers, we must try to make good choices if/when something is

" recommended " by a doctor. I don't want to have the decision made for me based

on (sadly) financial gain for the doctor/pharmaceutical company. I want to do

what's best and least hazardous for my body. The folks that deal with the issues

that brought them here (and the many that suffer silently) day in/day out

personally or with their child(ren), do not have idle time on their hands; your

statement couldn't be further from the truth. To inform (or dissuade, you

decide) new members that the material, views and support is basically worthless

is quite callous. Remove yourself from the group if you feel it can't be

trusted.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Miralax forum

 

This is an open letter to anyone reading this forum for the first time.  There

is a certain amount of opinion that is offered as fact on this forum.  That is

not to say that the people on this forum are intentionally trying to mislead.  I

do not believe they are.  I do believe that there is a fair amount of bad

information on this forum.

 

There are wonderful recipes and natural alternatives that are offered as well. 

There are good people who care about their children very much.

 

I am making this post for those of you who are new to Miralax, or have been

using it for a while and are reading this forum for the first time.

 

There is very little objective evidence presented here.  Do your own research,

and challenge your doctors.  Monitor your children.  Beware of outrageous

dosages.  Go to a 2nd doctor if you have any doubt.  You are ultimately

responsible for your child's care. 

 

It is SO difficult to understand medications and the human body.  There isn't a

more complex system that I know of than our bodies. 

 

Doctors do their best, but they aren't infallible.  But who are you going to

trust?  A professional who has taken the Hippocratic Oath, or a keyboard jockey

like me with too much time on their hands?

 

 

 

 

 

[Guest guest]

Reread my post.

I never implied that the material here is worthless. I told people that

there is some bad information here.

They can decide if the bad information is that which you present, or that

which I am presenting.

Why do you find it offensive? Is every thing posted in this forum 100%

true, accurate, and reliable? Did I not suggest they not listen to me, but

to do their own research? Is it wrong to trust educated professional that

you pay for their advice. And to get a 2nd opinion if you are concerned?

Miralax forum

 

This is an open letter to anyone reading this forum for the first time. 

There is a certain amount of opinion that is offered as fact on this forum. 

That is not to say that the people on this forum are intentionally trying to

mislead.  I do not believe they are.  I do believe that there is a fair

amount of bad information on this forum.

 

There are wonderful recipes and natural alternatives that are offered as

well.  There are good people who care about their children very much.

 

I am making this post for those of you who are new to Miralax, or have been

using it for a while and are reading this forum for the first time.

 

There is very little objective evidence presented here.  Do your own

research, and challenge your doctors.  Monitor your children.  Beware of

outrageous dosages.  Go to a 2nd doctor if you have any doubt.  You are

ultimately responsible for your child's care. 

 

It is SO difficult to understand medications and the human body.  There

isn't a more complex system that I know of than our bodies. 

 

Doctors do their best, but they aren't infallible.  But who are you going to

trust?  A professional who has taken the Hippocratic Oath, or a keyboard

jockey like me with too much time on their hands?

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

And " No " I will not leave the forum. Not as long as no one provides

objective evidence, and continues to present highly biased opinions. Just

because you don't like what I have to say, or the questions I ask, doesn't

mean that others don't appreciate an opposing view.

Mine is not even an opposing view. It is one of questioning. If someone is

presenting information as truth, it should be able to stand some

questioning.

I will oppose statements that I believe to be untrue.

Do I believe PeG 3350 is toxic. I don't know.

In overdosages? Yes

In patients with other serious medical problems? Very possibly

In all cases? I don't know

Has anyone here lied about their horror stories with PeG? I doubt it.

My point is there isn't evidence that PeG is toxic in all cases.

My point is that I disagree with saying it is what makes antifreeze

dangerous to consume.

My point is that some of the weak conclusions here are irresponsible.

Jack

BTW

a, what exactly is your profession? I am curious since you mentioned

it to lend credence to your position.

Miralax forum

 

This is an open letter to anyone reading this forum for the first time. 

There is a certain amount of opinion that is offered as fact on this forum. 

That is not to say that the people on this forum are intentionally trying to

mislead.  I do not believe they are.  I do believe that there is a fair

amount of bad information on this forum.

 

There are wonderful recipes and natural alternatives that are offered as

well.  There are good people who care about their children very much.

 

I am making this post for those of you who are new to Miralax, or have been

using it for a while and are reading this forum for the first time.

 

There is very little objective evidence presented here.  Do your own

research, and challenge your doctors.  Monitor your children.  Beware of

outrageous dosages.  Go to a 2nd doctor if you have any doubt.  You are

ultimately responsible for your child's care. 

 

It is SO difficult to understand medications and the human body.  There

isn't a more complex system that I know of than our bodies. 

 

Doctors do their best, but they aren't infallible.  But who are you going to

trust?  A professional who has taken the Hippocratic Oath, or a keyboard

jockey like me with too much time on their hands?

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Jack,

I gave no medical reference material in my prior statement that would lead you

to want to know my profession or question my credibility. Therefore, your

intrusive request to know my profession has been denied. What I stated is pretty

much common sense and from my personal experiences. What brought me here was to

share and support other members, as I too have a wonderful grandson who suffered

with digestive issues and had been prescribed Miralax by his pediatrician.

Countless problems had developed and increased after one month on Miralax;

unfortunately the doctor said " leave him on it...the symptoms might cease " . Nine

months later, my grandson had more symptoms of unrelated illness. My dilemma;

was using THIS product to soften and urge stool, worth his health or maybe life?

I thought not. I then used all of the *too much time I had* to help my daughter

begin to remove this toxic regimen from his life. This means I did my own

research, talked to other people experiencing the same thing (this group and

others) and picked the brains of other medical professionals that had knowledge

of natural products that may assist us. The result has been positive all

around. You are entitled to your opinion and I (unlike you) didn't send out

another " open letter " to discourage your views to anyone. My issue with your

letter is trying to dissuade new members (who wouldn't have found this group

unless they had some concerns) from doing their own research, sharing with

others and seeking some support. You are asking questions below that you have

no answer to but felt your " voice " would be better served to do what in this

case? Why don't you post what you've researched, instead of stating that " you

don't know " , but don't trust anything else posted here either. Your experiences

are appreciated but the controlling behavior has no place within open, honest

talk. Also, to refer to this group as " keyboard jockeys with too much time on

their hands " is everything but respectful. Everybody here is an adult and can

draw their own conclusions from any information provided to them. This is not,

never has been and will never be a one size fits all group; just like our

bodies. Oh, by the way, FYI...ANY chemical we put in our body has toxic

potential and interferes/interrupts it's normal process. That is a fact that you

can research if you'd like. I could tell you that I was the Surgeon

General...but I don't think that would help.

Sent via BlackBerry from T-Mobile

Miralax forum

 

This is an open letter to anyone reading this forum for the first time. 

There is a certain amount of opinion that is offered as fact on this forum. 

That is not to say that the people on this forum are intentionally trying to

mislead.  I do not believe they are.  I do believe that there is a fair

amount of bad information on this forum.

 

There are wonderful recipes and natural alternatives that are offered as

well.  There are good people who care about their children very much.

 

I am making this post for those of you who are new to Miralax, or have been

using it for a while and are reading this forum for the first time.

 

There is very little objective evidence presented here.  Do your own

research, and challenge your doctors.  Monitor your children.  Beware of

outrageous dosages.  Go to a 2nd doctor if you have any doubt.  You are

ultimately responsible for your child's care. 

 

It is SO difficult to understand medications and the human body.  There

isn't a more complex system that I know of than our bodies. 

 

Doctors do their best, but they aren't infallible.  But who are you going to

trust?  A professional who has taken the Hippocratic Oath, or a keyboard

jockey like me with too much time on their hands?

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

http://www.dherbs.com/articles/dangers-drinking-soda-127.html

One source...

---- Jack Gershon wrote:

And " No " I will not leave the forum. Not as long as no one provides

objective evidence, and continues to present highly biased opinions. Just

because you don't like what I have to say, or the questions I ask, doesn't

mean that others don't appreciate an opposing view.

Mine is not even an opposing view. It is one of questioning. If someone is

presenting information as truth, it should be able to stand some

questioning.

I will oppose statements that I believe to be untrue.

Do I believe PeG 3350 is toxic. I don't know.

In overdosages? Yes

In patients with other serious medical problems? Very possibly

In all cases? I don't know

Has anyone here lied about their horror stories with PeG? I doubt it.

My point is there isn't evidence that PeG is toxic in all cases.

My point is that I disagree with saying it is what makes antifreeze

dangerous to consume.

My point is that some of the weak conclusions here are irresponsible.

Jack

BTW

a, what exactly is your profession? I am curious since you mentioned

it to lend credence to your position.

Miralax forum

 

This is an open letter to anyone reading this forum for the first time. 

There is a certain amount of opinion that is offered as fact on this forum. 

That is not to say that the people on this forum are intentionally trying to

mislead.  I do not believe they are.  I do believe that there is a fair

amount of bad information on this forum.

 

There are wonderful recipes and natural alternatives that are offered as

well.  There are good people who care about their children very much.

 

I am making this post for those of you who are new to Miralax, or have been

using it for a while and are reading this forum for the first time.

 

There is very little objective evidence presented here.  Do your own

research, and challenge your doctors.  Monitor your children.  Beware of

outrageous dosages.  Go to a 2nd doctor if you have any doubt.  You are

ultimately responsible for your child's care. 

 

It is SO difficult to understand medications and the human body.  There

isn't a more complex system that I know of than our bodies. 

 

Doctors do their best, but they aren't infallible.  But who are you going to

trust?  A professional who has taken the Hippocratic Oath, or a keyboard

jockey like me with too much time on their hands?

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

your posts are getting annoying. this group is for SUPPORT. people here

are adults and can

make their own decisions and do not need another list member screening info.

for them..........

kathy

RE: Miralax forum

Reread my post.

I never implied that the material here is worthless. I told people that

there is some bad information here.

They can decide if the bad information is that which you present, or that

which I am presenting.

Why do you find it offensive? Is every thing posted in this forum 100%

true, accurate, and reliable? Did I not suggest they not listen to me, but

to do their own research? Is it wrong to trust educated professional that

you pay for their advice. And to get a 2nd opinion if you are concerned?

[Guest guest]

>>You are entitled to your opinion and I (unlike you) didn't send out

another " open letter " to discourage your views to anyone. My issue with

your letter is trying to dissuade new members (who wouldn't have found this

group unless they had some concerns) from doing their own research, sharing

with others and seeking some support.

READ MY POST!!! I ENCOURAGED EVERYONE TO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH!

I have posted a legitimate research article that was not funded by a

pharmaceutical company. I am asking others to do so as well.

I've said it before, people new to this group get scared to death by what

they read hear. What many of you post hear is biased and very far from " the

whole story. " Your personal experiences color your opinion. Rightfully so.

I challenge this forum to provide empirical data. You have a belief. Make

me believe.

Funny you mention the Surgeon General. If the Surgeon General provided you

with conclusive data on this topic, would you believe it?

Miralax forum

 

This is an open letter to anyone reading this forum for the first time. 

There is a certain amount of opinion that is offered as fact on this

forum. 

That is not to say that the people on this forum are intentionally trying

to

mislead.  I do not believe they are.  I do believe that there is a fair

amount of bad information on this forum.

 

There are wonderful recipes and natural alternatives that are offered as

well.  There are good people who care about their children very much.

 

I am making this post for those of you who are new to Miralax, or have been

using it for a while and are reading this forum for the first time.

 

There is very little objective evidence presented here.  Do your own

research, and challenge your doctors.  Monitor your children.  Beware of

outrageous dosages.  Go to a 2nd doctor if you have any doubt.  You are

ultimately responsible for your child's care. 

 

It is SO difficult to understand medications and the human body.  There

isn't a more complex system that I know of than our bodies. 

 

Doctors do their best, but they aren't infallible.  But who are you going

to

trust?  A professional who has taken the Hippocratic Oath, or a keyboard

jockey like me with too much time on their hands?

 

 

 

 

 

------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

I'm annoyed too.

Let's get some real information here! Personal experiences are great too. I don't challenge those.

What I challenge is outlandish statements about PeG sweaters and people feeling hot or cold from talking PeG. Antifreeze being prescribed by doctors. Doctors being less informed and intelligent than the forum members here.

A lot of you are angered by my posts. I'm asking questions. I'm suggesting that others question some of the content here. I'm suggesting that they do their own homework.

From: miralax [mailto:miralax ] On Behalf Of KathySent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:08 PMTo: miralax Subject: Re: Miralax forum

your posts are getting annoying. this group is for SUPPORT. people here are adults and canmake their own decisions and do not need another list member screening info. for them..........kathy RE: Miralax forumReread my post.I never implied that the material here is worthless. I told people thatthere is some bad information here.They can decide if the bad information is that which you present, or thatwhich I am presenting.Why do you find it offensive? Is every thing posted in this forum 100%true, accurate, and reliable? Did I not suggest they not listen to me, butto do their own research? Is it wrong to trust educated professional thatyou pay for their advice. And to get a 2nd opinion if you are concerned?

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.96/2369 - Release Date: 09/14/09 05:51:00

[Guest guest]

I find you to be condescending and unsuporttive. Personal experiences are real

information. I don't believe everything I read here. What I do believe is the

passion for which most everyone has about getting their children or themselves

off of this drug. Miralax damaged my son. I took it myself, and know first hand

some of the effects it can cause. I challenged at least 3 different doctors, one

of which specializes in kids with ASD. His response, yes, I have heard that. The

drug companies aren't talking, the FDA has yet to respond to my complaint. I

agree with Kathy. This is a group to SUPPORT people. ANd you Jack are in no way

supportive. Why don't you start your own group. While many of the people on this

group are in the same boat I am, I am sure that there are some that would follow

you. I, however, am not one of them.

>

> I'm annoyed too.

>

> Let's get some real information here! Personal experiences are great too.

> I don't challenge those.

>

> What I challenge is outlandish statements about PeG sweaters and people

> feeling hot or cold from talking PeG. Antifreeze being prescribed by

> doctors. Doctors being less informed and intelligent than the forum members

> here.

>

> A lot of you are angered by my posts. I'm asking questions. I'm suggesting

> that others question some of the content here. I'm suggesting that they do

> their own homework.

>

>

>

> _____

>

> From: miralax [mailto:miralax ] On Behalf Of

> Kathy

> Sent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:08 PM

> To: miralax

> Subject: Re: Miralax forum

>

>

>

>

> your posts are getting annoying. this group is for SUPPORT. people here

> are adults and can

> make their own decisions and do not need another list member screening info.

>

> for them..........

>

> kathy

>

> RE: Miralax forum

>

> Reread my post.

>

> I never implied that the material here is worthless. I told people that

> there is some bad information here.

>

> They can decide if the bad information is that which you present, or that

> which I am presenting.

>

> Why do you find it offensive? Is every thing posted in this forum 100%

> true, accurate, and reliable? Did I not suggest they not listen to me, but

> to do their own research? Is it wrong to trust educated professional that

> you pay for their advice. And to get a 2nd opinion if you are concerned?

>

>

>

>

>

> No virus found in this incoming message.

> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com

> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.96/2369 - Release Date: 09/14/09

> 05:51:00

>

[Guest guest]

**Is it wrong to trust educated professional thatyou pay for their advice?**

......hmmm...I have my answer, my belief.

You do what you want...

RE: Miralax forum> > Reread my post.> > I never implied that the material here is worthless. I told people that> there is some bad information here.> > They can decide if the bad information is that which you present, or that> which I am presenting.> > Why do you find it offensive? Is every thing posted in this forum 100%> true, accurate, and reliable? Did I not suggest they not listen to me, but> to do their own research? Is it wrong to trust educated professional that> you pay for their advice. And to get a 2nd opinion if you are concerned?> > > > > > No virus found in this incoming message.> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com> Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.96/2369 - Release Date: 09/14/09> 05:51:00>

[Guest guest]

anything foreign is toxic to the body.Subject: RE: Miralax forumTo: miralax Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 11:58 AM

And "No" I will not leave the forum. Not as long as no one provides

objective evidence, and continues to present highly biased opinions. Just

because you don't like what I have to say, or the questions I ask, doesn't

mean that others don't appreciate an opposing view.

Mine is not even an opposing view. It is one of questioning. If someone is

presenting information as truth, it should be able to stand some

questioning.

I will oppose statements that I believe to be untrue.

Do I believe PeG 3350 is toxic. I don't know.

In overdosages? Yes

In patients with other serious medical problems? Very possibly

In all cases? I don't know

Has anyone here lied about their horror stories with PeG? I doubt it.

My point is there isn't evidence that PeG is toxic in all cases.

My point is that I disagree with saying it is what makes antifreeze

dangerous to consume.

My point is that some of the weak conclusions here are irresponsible.

Jack

BTW

a, what exactly is your profession? I am curious since you mentioned

it to lend credence to your position.

Miralax forum

This is an open letter to anyone reading this forum for the first time.

There is a certain amount of opinion that is offered as fact on this forum.

That is not to say that the people on this forum are intentionally trying to

mislead. I do not believe they are. I do believe that there is a fair

amount of bad information on this forum.

There are wonderful recipes and natural alternatives that are offered as

well. There are good people who care about their children very much.

I am making this post for those of you who are new to Miralax, or have been

using it for a while and are reading this forum for the first time.

There is very little objective evidence presented here. Do your own

research, and challenge your doctors. Monitor your children. Beware of

outrageous dosages. Go to a 2nd doctor if you have any doubt. You are

ultimately responsible for your child's care.

It is SO difficult to understand medications and the human body. There

isn't a more complex system that I know of than our bodies.

Doctors do their best, but they aren't infallible. But who are you going to

trust? A professional who has taken the Hippocratic Oath, or a keyboard

jockey like me with too much time on their hands?

------------ --------- --------- ------

[Guest guest]

questions are great and welcomed or are there other reasons for your needed "hard proof". But you need to use caution in encouraging PEG usage with others(I have seen you do this in this group). You could be encouraging severe damage/death for someone. It is one thing wanting proof etc, that is understandable, most here go on human gut instinct and some need proof. But please dont encourage the use of PEG, we all here would like to use other means. Many here have done there homework, made the decision not to use and move on. It is just hard to share what is proof(takes time to do this) and have someone reject it all(as you see the accepted Hard Proof is difficult to get, its there, but gonna be hard to get for your reasons). I sit here in the hospital with my son and think, gosh, it is upsetting to see this group trying to convince you on something that has

been so upsetting for them personally.To use this with your child, but to be a pusher of it just doesnt seem appropriate for this group(I suspect it is proof you need or a concience thing). You know in a past hospital stay for our son he was having heart problems. Turns out the PEG was causing this(it drops the potassium levels dangerously low/to low or to high can cause heart damage or heart attack). I thought OMG, he was on it daily at home and I dont have a heart monitor at home(do you?) and this most likely was happening then. There are so many unknown issues and obvious issues, it just isnt worth it. Well hopefully we can give you the answers you are looking for. But honestly until you research the dangers/side affects instead of just the good you wont find it. There are always to sides and you just need to make that personal choice of the side you take. That is how most medication decisions work! Jennie<><Subject: RE: Miralax forumTo: miralax Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 2:12 PM

I'm annoyed too.

Let's get some real information here! Personal experiences are great too. I don't challenge those.

What I challenge is outlandish statements about PeG sweaters and people feeling hot or cold from talking PeG. Antifreeze being prescribed by doctors. Doctors being less informed and intelligent than the forum members here.

A lot of you are angered by my posts. I'm asking questions. I'm suggesting that others question some of the content here. I'm suggesting that they do their own homework.

From: miralax@yahoogroups .com [mailto:miralax@ yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of KathySent: Monday, September 14, 2009 5:08 PMTo: miralax@yahoogroups .comSubject: Re: Miralax forum

your posts are getting annoying. this group is for SUPPORT. people here are adults and canmake their own decisions and do not need another list member screening info. for them........ ..kathy RE: Miralax forumReread my post.I never implied that the material here is worthless. I told people thatthere is some bad information here.They can decide if the bad information is that which you present, or thatwhich I am presenting.Why do you find it offensive? Is every thing posted in this forum 100%true, accurate, and reliable? Did I not suggest they not listen to me, butto do their own research? Is it wrong to trust educated professional thatyou pay for their advice. And to get a 2nd opinion if you are concerned?

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.96/2369 - Release Date: 09/14/09 05:51:00

[Guest guest]

> RE: Miralax forum

>

> Reread my post.

>

> I never implied that the material here is worthless. I told people that

> there is some bad information here.

>

> They can decide if the bad information is that which you present, or that

> which I am presenting.

>

> Why do you find it offensive? Is every thing posted in this forum 100%

> true, accurate, and reliable? Did I not suggest they not listen to me, but

> to do their own research? Is it wrong to trust educated professional that

> you pay for their advice. And to get a 2nd opinion if you are concerned?

I usually stay quiet, I read, I get very valuable and helpful information about

treating my daughters health conditions... but that being said----enough is

enough. I'm really tired of listening to you, your messages are not ones that I

want to have to sift thru over and over, just so you can argue that you're right

or whatever you think you are. So please just go away or just be quiet.

With this much protest I'm begining to wonder what your motives are for being in

this group? Perhaps if you listened (i.e read) twice as much as you typed then

you might find some valuable experience and information on this board

[Guest guest]

I've said it before, people new to this group get scared to death by whatthey read hear.

Jack, they should be, children and adults have died from this medication

Subject: RE: Miralax forumTo: miralax Date: Monday, September 14, 2009, 4:08 PM

>>You are entitled to your opinion and I (unlike you) didn't send outanother "open letter" to discourage your views to anyone. My issue withyour letter is trying to dissuade new members (who wouldn't have found thisgroup unless they had some concerns) from doing their own research, sharingwith others and seeking some support.READ MY POST!!! I ENCOURAGED EVERYONE TO DO THEIR OWN RESEARCH! I have posted a legitimate research article that was not funded by apharmaceutical company. I am asking others to do so as well.I've said it before, people new to this group get scared to death by whatthey read hear. What many of you post hear is biased and very far from "thewhole story." Your personal experiences color your opinion. Rightfully so.I challenge this forum to provide empirical data. You have a belief. Makeme believe.Funny you mention the Surgeon General. If the Surgeon

General provided youwith conclusive data on this topic, would you believe it? Miralax forum This is an open letter to anyone reading this forum for the first time. There is a certain amount of opinion that is offered as fact on thisforum. That is not to say that the people on this forum are intentionally

tryingtomislead. I do not believe they are. I do believe that there is a fairamount of bad information on this forum. There are wonderful recipes and natural alternatives that are offered aswell. There are good people who care about their children very much. I am making this post for those of you who are new to Miralax, or have beenusing it for a while and are reading this forum for the first time. There is very little objective evidence presented here. Do your ownresearch, and challenge your doctors. Monitor your children. Beware ofoutrageous dosages. Go to a 2nd doctor if you have any doubt. You areultimately responsible for your child's care. It is SO difficult to understand medications and the human body. Thereisn't a more complex system that I know of than our bodies.

Doctors do their best, but they aren't infallible. But who are you goingtotrust? A professional who has taken the Hippocratic Oath, or a keyboardjockey like me with too much time on their hands? ------------ --------- --------- ------

[Guest guest]

It is amazing what is read in my posts that I didn't write. I wonder what type of mental image some of you have formed of me?

Here is who I am:

I am a parent. I have a kid who becomes constipated without Miralax. I know the cause of his constipation. I'm scared of using something that will harm him. Since I have not found any other viable alternatives to Miralax, I seek good information. I get combative when I read responses about this great conspiracy to hurt our kids.

If there was anything here concrete enough that I could take to a doctor, you wouldn't hear me shouting for good information.

A significant portion of what I get here states that Coke-Cola, our doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and the FDA are all trying to hurt our kids. I don't buy it.

The files are thin, very thin. I know many of you disagree with me, but without a certain degree of bias against PeG 3350, the files don't paint the picture some here see. There are assumptions that you have to believe for the files to stand up. I disagree with some of the assumptions.

Do I trust doctors? I trust that they have a much better education than I do. I trust myself to bring them the right questions. I trust that if I ask questions of them that their answers will be in some fashion derived from that education. I trust myself to press them harder when I don't trust their answer. People here don't like my questions? You should be present from some of the 'discussions' I have had with my son's doctors. Doctors do not like to be challenged either. I pay for their expertise. They need to substantiate as well.

Bonnie,

Thank you for your response. I can understand your concern based on your experiences. My case is a bit different. We don't have the contents taking weeks to move through my son's system. As such, we probably aren't seeing the same effects that a 'prolonged stay' might cause my son. I sincerely hope your daughter does well and you can find a solution to whatever is the cause of her constipation.

Yvette,

Please quit looking for the absolute worst in my posts. I said that there is SOME bad information here. I also stated that there is good information to be found here as well.

No, I do not hold a degree in chemical engineering or any related field. I wish I did. It would make it possible to better understand some of the data I have come across here and elsewhere. I am relying on common sense and mathematics. When I see articles with toxicity reports and the dosages that induced toxicity are ridiculously large, things like that jump off the page at me.

,

I have stated my reason for being here again and again. I want good information about PeG 3350 and what side effects have been documented.

Susie,

I'm really not all that lazy, just busy, as I am sure you are as well. I google this topic a whole lot. I am not finding anything out there to support the opinion of this forum. As such, I challenge this forum to share their information.

Honeymarkey,

I have stated again and again that I am not challenging anyone's personal experience. But have you tried taking "Jane Doe on the internet reports X' to your doctors as reliable information?

Jeanie,

You and I read the same words and focus on completely different aspects. You highlighted the blue, while I focused on the red.

"It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very low toxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized not at all by humans."

That is probably why we take exception to each other. "why can't you see what I see?" (could be either one of us thinking that)

We disagree. I can live with that.

,

I honestly appreciate your post. It is going to take some time to review your abstracts. The abstracts are, again, not very concrete. There are a lot of 'coulds' and 'mays' in there. For me, those are leap of faith type of stuff. But you raise valid points in your posts. You are right about my lack of sensitivty.

I apologize to everyone here for starting a ruckus. It is not my intent to minimize any of your experiences. I will try to ask my questions with greater respect for your feelings and experiences.

I'm sure none of you will be surprised if I continue my skepticism. My quest for answers has not changed.

Jack

[Guest guest]

Jeanie,

You and I read the same words and focus on completely different aspects. You highlighted the blue, while I focused on the red.

"It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very low toxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized not at all by humans."

Going Further, I'm not finished uploading everything I have. You haven't found all the information yet, including submitting to the FDA to find out what is documented but yet you're making assumptions that there isn't any information here. Have you really had time to read the FDA adverse reactions? It took me a decade of sitting down with Physicians to find out what all the symptoms were to better understand this medication. Again, If the statements and alligations about the safety of Miralax is true, then we wouldn't have the 1000 submissions through the FDA, or the 1000 people on this group.

To create a cenus, they times how many people you've found by 10,000 to come up with a total number. I think we've done an outstanding job finding others, considering we were all told this didn't happen, and must be an isolated incident. I have three physicians that agree completely with me, all saying that through osmosis it soaks through the stomach wall and goes to the brain. (I will be uploading the documents that 4% is absorbed in a NORMAL colon)

Talk to a pediatric Neurologist and have your doctors (not the ones treating him) look up the safety and effectiveness of polyethylene glycol and it's all there in black and white. A pediatric Neurologist told me that it pulls water from the body and when it's not deficated immediately, it keeps pulling and eventually pulls all the water and salt from the brain resulting in hyponatremia. Did the doctors tell you this??? Why do you think they don't tell parents this?

My doctors didn't know ANYTHING about this but prescribed it daily (because they heard through the grapevine, it works) UNTIL I talked to them. Now they DON'T prescribe it.

Therefore, it's dangerous even if you didn't absorb it. Doctor's are just people, they don't know everything about the medications they prescribe and they make many mistakes, just like we do. We aren't saying that they are harming are children on purpose, most just won't listen when we express our concerns, they ASSUME these side affects must be coming from somewhere else, (BECAUSE THE PROTOCOL IS INCORRECT) nor do they contact the FDA like they are mandated to do when a patient expresses their concerns.

It's still a liquid plastic Jack........................made from ethylene glycol

Subject: Miralax forumTo: miralax Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 1:00 AM

It is amazing what is read in my posts that I didn't write. I wonder what type of mental image some of you have formed of me?

Here is who I am:

I am a parent. I have a kid who becomes constipated without Miralax. I know the cause of his constipation. I'm scared of using something that will harm him. Since I have not found any other viable alternatives to Miralax, I seek good information. I get combative when I read responses about this great conspiracy to hurt our kids.

If there was anything here concrete enough that I could take to a doctor, you wouldn't hear me shouting for good information.

A significant portion of what I get here states that Coke-Cola, our doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and the FDA are all trying to hurt our kids. I don't buy it.

The files are thin, very thin. I know many of you disagree with me, but without a certain degree of bias against PeG 3350, the files don't paint the picture some here see. There are assumptions that you have to believe for the files to stand up. I disagree with some of the assumptions.

Do I trust doctors? I trust that they have a much better education than I do. I trust myself to bring them the right questions. I trust that if I ask questions of them that their answers will be in some fashion derived from that education. I trust myself to press them harder when I don't trust their answer. People here don't like my questions? You should be present from some of the 'discussions' I have had with my son's doctors. Doctors do not like to be challenged either. I pay for their expertise. They need to substantiate as well.

Bonnie,

Thank you for your response. I can understand your concern based on your experiences. My case is a bit different. We don't have the contents taking weeks to move through my son's system. As such, we probably aren't seeing the same effects that a 'prolonged stay' might cause my son. I sincerely hope your daughter does well and you can find a solution to whatever is the cause of her constipation.

Yvette,

Please quit looking for the absolute worst in my posts. I said that there is SOME bad information here. I also stated that there is good information to be found here as well.

No, I do not hold a degree in chemical engineering or any related field. I wish I did. It would make it possible to better understand some of the data I have come across here and elsewhere. I am relying on common sense and mathematics. When I see articles with toxicity reports and the dosages that induced toxicity are ridiculously large, things like that jump off the page at me.

,

I have stated my reason for being here again and again. I want good information about PeG 3350 and what side effects have been documented.

Susie,

I'm really not all that lazy, just busy, as I am sure you are as well. I google this topic a whole lot. I am not finding anything out there to support the opinion of this forum. As such, I challenge this forum to share their information.

Honeymarkey,

I have stated again and again that I am not challenging anyone's personal experience. But have you tried taking "Jane Doe on the internet reports X' to your doctors as reliable information?

Jeanie,

You and I read the same words and focus on completely different aspects. You highlighted the blue, while I focused on the red.

"It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very low toxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized not at all by humans."

That is probably why we take exception to each other. "why can't you see what I see?" (could be either one of us thinking that)

We disagree. I can live with that.

,

I honestly appreciate your post. It is going to take some time to review your abstracts. The abstracts are, again, not very concrete. There are a lot of 'coulds' and 'mays' in there. For me, those are leap of faith type of stuff. But you raise valid points in your posts. You are right about my lack of sensitivty.

I apologize to everyone here for starting a ruckus. It is not my intent to minimize any of your experiences. I will try to ask my questions with greater respect for your feelings and experiences.

I'm sure none of you will be surprised if I continue my skepticism. My quest for answers has not changed.

Jack

[Guest guest]

Jack, you say your child can't go without Miralax, check out the word ileus, it's on the FDA adverse events, I looked up all these side affects and ileus means it puts the bowel to sleep, therefore your child can't go even if he wanted to. The Miralax works by being toxic and whooshes everything out. It also causes ileus and now they are dependent on it. It burns the skin Jack. It deadens nerve cells. The material safey data sheets says, "Do not through down the sewer"

http://www.answers.com/topic/ileus---

Subject: Miralax forumTo: miralax Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 1:00 AM

It is amazing what is read in my posts that I didn't write. I wonder what type of mental image some of you have formed of me?

Here is who I am:

I am a parent. I have a kid who becomes constipated without Miralax. I know the cause of his constipation. I'm scared of using something that will harm him. Since I have not found any other viable alternatives to Miralax, I seek good information. I get combative when I read responses about this great conspiracy to hurt our kids.

If there was anything here concrete enough that I could take to a doctor, you wouldn't hear me shouting for good information.

A significant portion of what I get here states that Coke-Cola, our doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and the FDA are all trying to hurt our kids. I don't buy it.

The files are thin, very thin. I know many of you disagree with me, but without a certain degree of bias against PeG 3350, the files don't paint the picture some here see. There are assumptions that you have to believe for the files to stand up. I disagree with some of the assumptions.

Do I trust doctors? I trust that they have a much better education than I do. I trust myself to bring them the right questions. I trust that if I ask questions of them that their answers will be in some fashion derived from that education. I trust myself to press them harder when I don't trust their answer. People here don't like my questions? You should be present from some of the 'discussions' I have had with my son's doctors. Doctors do not like to be challenged either. I pay for their expertise. They need to substantiate as well.

Bonnie,

Thank you for your response. I can understand your concern based on your experiences. My case is a bit different. We don't have the contents taking weeks to move through my son's system. As such, we probably aren't seeing the same effects that a 'prolonged stay' might cause my son. I sincerely hope your daughter does well and you can find a solution to whatever is the cause of her constipation.

Yvette,

Please quit looking for the absolute worst in my posts. I said that there is SOME bad information here. I also stated that there is good information to be found here as well.

No, I do not hold a degree in chemical engineering or any related field. I wish I did. It would make it possible to better understand some of the data I have come across here and elsewhere. I am relying on common sense and mathematics. When I see articles with toxicity reports and the dosages that induced toxicity are ridiculously large, things like that jump off the page at me.

,

I have stated my reason for being here again and again. I want good information about PeG 3350 and what side effects have been documented.

Susie,

I'm really not all that lazy, just busy, as I am sure you are as well. I google this topic a whole lot. I am not finding anything out there to support the opinion of this forum. As such, I challenge this forum to share their information.

Honeymarkey,

I have stated again and again that I am not challenging anyone's personal experience. But have you tried taking "Jane Doe on the internet reports X' to your doctors as reliable information?

Jeanie,

You and I read the same words and focus on completely different aspects. You highlighted the blue, while I focused on the red.

"It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very low toxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized not at all by humans."

That is probably why we take exception to each other. "why can't you see what I see?" (could be either one of us thinking that)

We disagree. I can live with that.

,

I honestly appreciate your post. It is going to take some time to review your abstracts. The abstracts are, again, not very concrete. There are a lot of 'coulds' and 'mays' in there. For me, those are leap of faith type of stuff. But you raise valid points in your posts. You are right about my lack of sensitivty.

I apologize to everyone here for starting a ruckus. It is not my intent to minimize any of your experiences. I will try to ask my questions with greater respect for your feelings and experiences.

I'm sure none of you will be surprised if I continue my skepticism. My quest for answers has not changed.

Jack

[Guest guest]

Yea, why are we education the doctors, the pharmacists and the FDA? Because that's how the system works. It's called trial and error and lets not forget the phrase, Practicing medicine" My doc's quote: Jeanie, 3000 people die per year from asprin but they're not going to pull it b/c it helps so many people" This doesn't make it right and a child doesn't have a choice or a voice in this whole mess.

Jeanie It is amazing what is read in my posts that I didn't write. I wonder whattype of mental image some of you have formed of me?Here is who

I am:I am a parent. I have a kid who becomes constipated without Miralax. Iknow the cause of his constipation. I'm scared of using something that willharm him. Since I have not found any other viable alternatives to Miralax,I seek good information. I get combative when I read responses about thisgreat conspiracy to hurt our kids. If there was anything here concrete enough that I could take to a doctor,you wouldn't hear me shouting for good information. A significant portion of what I get here states that Coke-Cola, our doctors,pharmaceutical companies, and the FDA are all trying to hurt our kids. Idon't buy it. The files are thin, very thin. I know many of you disagree with me, butwithout a certain degree of bias against PeG 3350, the files don't paint thepicture some here see. There are assumptions that you have to believe forthe files to stand up. I disagree with some of the

assumptions.Do I trust doctors? I trust that they have a much better education than Ido. I trust myself to bring them the right questions. I trust that if Iask questions of them that their answers will be in some fashion derivedfrom that education. I trust myself to press them harder when I don't trusttheir answer. People here don't like my questions? You should be presentfrom some of the 'discussions' I have had with my son's doctors. Doctors donot like to be challenged either. I pay for their expertise. They need tosubstantiate as well.Bonnie,Thank you for your response. I can understand your concern based on yourexperiences. My case is a bit different. We don't have the contents takingweeks to move through my son's system. As such, we probably aren't seeingthe same effects that a 'prolonged stay' might cause my son. I sincerelyhope your daughter does well and you can find a solution to

whatever is thecause of her constipation.Yvette,Please quit looking for the absolute worst in my posts. I said that thereis SOME bad information here. I also stated that there is good informationto be found here as well. No, I do not hold a degree in chemical engineering or any related field. Iwish I did. It would make it possible to better understand some of the dataI have come across here and elsewhere. I am relying on common sense andmathematics. When I see articles with toxicity reports and the dosages thatinduced toxicity are ridiculously large, things like that jump off the pageat me. ,I have stated my reason for being here again and again. I want goodinformation about PeG 3350 and what side effects have been documented.Susie,I'm really not all that lazy, just busy, as I am sure you are as well. Igoogle this topic a whole lot. I am not finding anything out

there tosupport the opinion of this forum. As such, I challenge this forum to sharetheir information.Honeymarkey,I have stated again and again that I am not challenging anyone's personalexperience. But have you tried taking "Jane Doe on the internet reports X'to your doctors as reliable information?Jeanie,You and I read the same words and focus on completely different aspects.You highlighted the blue, while I focused on the red."It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very lowtoxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized notat all by humans."That is probably why we take exception to each other. "why can't you seewhat I see?" (could be either one of us thinking that)We disagree. I can live with that.,I honestly appreciate your post. It is going to take some time to reviewyour abstracts. The abstracts are, again, not

very concrete. There are alot of 'coulds' and 'mays' in there. For me, those are leap of faith typeof stuff. But you raise valid points in your posts. You are right about mylack of sensitivty.I apologize to everyone here for starting a ruckus. It is not my intent tominimize any of your experiences. I will try to ask my questions withgreater respect for your feelings and experiences. I'm sure none of you will be surprised if I continue my skepticism. Myquest for answers has not changed.Jack--Tracie "Team China!"

[Guest guest]

For me personally I don't need written/medical "proof" about PeG being bad for my daughter.

My "proof" is that after I gave my daughter Miralax I witnessed her experience terrible side effects almost immediately. (Dark circles under her eyes, angry mood swings, joint pain and lots of other issues this forum has addressed...very scary and real things that we have seen happen to our children only after starting them on Miralax). This is all the proof I need that Miralax is not suitable or safe for my two year old. How it affects others is how they will come to the conclusion that it is "safe" for their child/themselves.

This forum is such a great resource for me because when I noticed my daughter changing/suffering I was SO scared. I asked her doctor if it could be the meds. She assured me it could not. I got on line, found this group, and got all the support and proof I needed that some children should not be on Miralax. She was on a 1/2 capful two weeks. The doctor wanted significantly more than that and I wonder very often what the prescribed amount would have done to her. Once off she had no circles, no anger, etc. It takes A LOT of time to keep things balanced for her to be regular, but as we all know, the effort is worth it for our children.

The only experience I have with adults and Miralax is my Mom and I taking the dose that was prescribed to my daughter. It made both of us vomit. My husband took the same and felt a little "different" but nothing significant with him.

As far as trusting doctors.... I believe doctors are a great resource. I also believe they see our children for small windows of time and that we, as parents, are with them so much more and know them so much better. My daughter has life threatening allergies to eggs and peanuts. This could not have been confirmed as accurately without the help of her allergist. However, I took my son to the doctor when he was one year, six days old because I felt like something was "wrong." I didn't know what but my intuition was something was "off." was 96% for height, 87% for weight, a head full of dark hair and beautiful blue eyes. He "looked" like the healthiest child on earth. That is what his doctor saw when she "checked" him. She sent me home know telling me to put parenting and medical books down, to relax, etc. Five days later I found dead in his crib... 30 minutes before I found him he was breathing. That was almost four years ago next month and not a day goes by that I don't question what I missed, what the doctor missed... So to take medical diagnosis into our own hands at times isn't always a bad thing. It is a protective, I want what is best for my child, kind of thing. Paper proof is valuable in many, many ways. But "living" proof, I believe, is more powerful than anything else. If we lived by what papers and bottles said instead of what we see happening to our children what kind of parents would we be? Ignoring the obvious because something isn't clear cut and documented isn't fair to our children or to us. The repercussions of waiting for proof can be and have been deadly to so many as Jeanie as pointed out with her research.

Please know that Miralax did NOT cause my son's death. He never took it. I also don't think putting someone on Miralax will kill them. My point is only to support that sometimes a Mom or Dad really does know better than a doctor...and if you're really lucky, you will find a doctor that knows better than a bottles instructions. And...if you're REALLY lucky, you could take Miralax for the rest of your life and never suffer a side effect. But that's not what most parents/people in this forum have experienced. We've seen the negative and it scares us and I believe finding alternatives to Miralax is what we are here for.

www.jacobdavidbaker.com

BakerOctober 19, 2004 ~ October 30, 2005Remembering Our Little Boy...Every Second of Every Day.

Miralax forum

It is amazing what is read in my posts that I didn't write. I wonder what type of mental image some of you have formed of me?

Here is who I am:

I am a parent. I have a kid who becomes constipated without Miralax. I know the cause of his constipation. I'm scared of using something that will harm him. Since I have not found any other viable alternatives to Miralax, I seek good information. I get combative when I read responses about this great conspiracy to hurt our kids.

If there was anything here concrete enough that I could take to a doctor, you wouldn't hear me shouting for good information.

A significant portion of what I get here states that Coke-Cola, our doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and the FDA are all trying to hurt our kids. I don't buy it.

The files are thin, very thin. I know many of you disagree with me, but without a certain degree of bias against PeG 3350, the files don't paint the picture some here see. There are assumptions that you have to believe for the files to stand up. I disagree with some of the assumptions.

Do I trust doctors? I trust that they have a much better education than I do. I trust myself to bring them the right questions. I trust that if I ask questions of them that their answers will be in some fashion derived from that education. I trust myself to press them harder when I don't trust their answer. People here don't like my questions? You should be present from some of the 'discussions' I have had with my son's doctors. Doctors do not like to be challenged either. I pay for their expertise. They need to substantiate as well.

Bonnie,

Thank you for your response. I can understand your concern based on your experiences. My case is a bit different. We don't have the contents taking weeks to move through my son's system. As such, we probably aren't seeing the same effects that a 'prolonged stay' might cause my son. I sincerely hope your daughter does well and you can find a solution to whatever is the cause of her constipation.

Yvette,

Please quit looking for the absolute worst in my posts. I said that there is SOME bad information here. I also stated that there is good information to be found here as well.

No, I do not hold a degree in chemical engineering or any related field. I wish I did. It would make it possible to better understand some of the data I have come across here and elsewhere. I am relying on common sense and mathematics. When I see articles with toxicity reports and the dosages that induced toxicity are ridiculously large, things like that jump off the page at me.

,

I have stated my reason for being here again and again. I want good information about PeG 3350 and what side effects have been documented.

Susie,

I'm really not all that lazy, just busy, as I am sure you are as well. I google this topic a whole lot. I am not finding anything out there to support the opinion of this forum. As such, I challenge this forum to share their information.

Honeymarkey,

I have stated again and again that I am not challenging anyone's personal experience. But have you tried taking "Jane Doe on the internet reports X' to your doctors as reliable information?

Jeanie,

You and I read the same words and focus on completely different aspects. You highlighted the blue, while I focused on the red.

"It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very low toxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized not at all by humans."

That is probably why we take exception to each other. "why can't you see what I see?" (could be either one of us thinking that)

We disagree. I can live with that.

,

I honestly appreciate your post. It is going to take some time to review your abstracts. The abstracts are, again, not very concrete. There are a lot of 'coulds' and 'mays' in there. For me, those are leap of faith type of stuff. But you raise valid points in your posts. You are right about my lack of sensitivty.

I apologize to everyone here for starting a ruckus. It is not my intent to minimize any of your experiences. I will try to ask my questions with greater respect for your feelings and experiences.

I'm sure none of you will be surprised if I continue my skepticism. My quest for answers has not changed.

Jack

[Guest guest]

With all sincerity: Are you soliciting a response from me?

I disagree with some foundations of your arguments. So unless you're inviting continued debate, I'll hold my response at this time.

I'm interested in seeing the documents you referenced.

Jack

From: miralax [mailto:miralax ] On Behalf Of jeanie wardSent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:24 AMTo: miralax Subject: Re: Miralax forum

Jeanie,

You and I read the same words and focus on completely different aspects. You highlighted the blue, while I focused on the red.

"It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very low toxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized not at all by humans."

Going Further, I'm not finished uploading everything I have. You haven't found all the information yet, including submitting to the FDA to find out what is documented but yet you're making assumptions that there isn't any information here. Have you really had time to read the FDA adverse reactions? It took me a decade of sitting down with Physicians to find out what all the symptoms were to better understand this medication. Again, If the statements and alligations about the safety of Miralax is true, then we wouldn't have the 1000 submissions through the FDA, or the 1000 people on this group.

To create a cenus, they times how many people you've found by 10,000 to come up with a total number. I think we've done an outstanding job finding others, considering we were all told this didn't happen, and must be an isolated incident. I have three physicians that agree completely with me, all saying that through osmosis it soaks through the stomach wall and goes to the brain. (I will be uploading the documents that 4% is absorbed in a NORMAL colon)

Talk to a pediatric Neurologist and have your doctors (not the ones treating him) look up the safety and effectiveness of polyethylene glycol and it's all there in black and white. A pediatric Neurologist told me that it pulls water from the body and when it's not deficated immediately, it keeps pulling and eventually pulls all the water and salt from the brain resulting in hyponatremia. Did the doctors tell you this??? Why do you think they don't tell parents this?

My doctors didn't know ANYTHING about this but prescribed it daily (because they heard through the grapevine, it works) UNTIL I talked to them. Now they DON'T prescribe it.

Therefore, it's dangerous even if you didn't absorb it. Doctor's are just people, they don't know everything about the medications they prescribe and they make many mistakes, just like we do. We aren't saying that they are harming are children on purpose, most just won't listen when we express our concerns, they ASSUME these side affects must be coming from somewhere else, (BECAUSE THE PROTOCOL IS INCORRECT) nor do they contact the FDA like they are mandated to do when a patient expresses their concerns.

It's still a liquid plastic Jack........................made from ethylene glycol

From: Jack Gershon <jackgershon (DOT) cc>Subject: Miralax forumTo: miralax Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 1:00 AM

It is amazing what is read in my posts that I didn't write. I wonder what type of mental image some of you have formed of me?

Here is who I am:

I am a parent. I have a kid who becomes constipated without Miralax. I know the cause of his constipation. I'm scared of using something that will harm him. Since I have not found any other viable alternatives to Miralax, I seek good information. I get combative when I read responses about this great conspiracy to hurt our kids.

If there was anything here concrete enough that I could take to a doctor, you wouldn't hear me shouting for good information.

A significant portion of what I get here states that Coke-Cola, our doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and the FDA are all trying to hurt our kids. I don't buy it.

The files are thin, very thin. I know many of you disagree with me, but without a certain degree of bias against PeG 3350, the files don't paint the picture some here see. There are assumptions that you have to believe for the files to stand up. I disagree with some of the assumptions.

Do I trust doctors? I trust that they have a much better education than I do. I trust myself to bring them the right questions. I trust that if I ask questions of them that their answers will be in some fashion derived from that education. I trust myself to press them harder when I don't trust their answer. People here don't like my questions? You should be present from some of the 'discussions' I have had with my son's doctors. Doctors do not like to be challenged either. I pay for their expertise. They need to substantiate as well.

Bonnie,

Thank you for your response. I can understand your concern based on your experiences. My case is a bit different. We don't have the contents taking weeks to move through my son's system. As such, we probably aren't seeing the same effects that a 'prolonged stay' might cause my son. I sincerely hope your daughter does well and you can find a solution to whatever is the cause of her constipation.

Yvette,

Please quit looking for the absolute worst in my posts. I said that there is SOME bad information here. I also stated that there is good information to be found here as well.

No, I do not hold a degree in chemical engineering or any related field. I wish I did. It would make it possible to better understand some of the data I have come across here and elsewhere. I am relying on common sense and mathematics. When I see articles with toxicity reports and the dosages that induced toxicity are ridiculously large, things like that jump off the page at me.

,

I have stated my reason for being here again and again. I want good information about PeG 3350 and what side effects have been documented.

Susie,

I'm really not all that lazy, just busy, as I am sure you are as well. I google this topic a whole lot. I am not finding anything out there to support the opinion of this forum. As such, I challenge this forum to share their information.

Honeymarkey,

I have stated again and again that I am not challenging anyone's personal experience. But have you tried taking "Jane Doe on the internet reports X' to your doctors as reliable information?

Jeanie,

You and I read the same words and focus on completely different aspects. You highlighted the blue, while I focused on the red.

"It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very low toxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized not at all by humans."

That is probably why we take exception to each other. "why can't you see what I see?" (could be either one of us thinking that)

We disagree. I can live with that.

,

I honestly appreciate your post. It is going to take some time to review your abstracts. The abstracts are, again, not very concrete. There are a lot of 'coulds' and 'mays' in there. For me, those are leap of faith type of stuff. But you raise valid points in your posts. You are right about my lack of sensitivty.

I apologize to everyone here for starting a ruckus. It is not my intent to minimize any of your experiences. I will try to ask my questions with greater respect for your feelings and experiences.

I'm sure none of you will be surprised if I continue my skepticism. My quest for answers has not changed.

Jack

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[Guest guest]

,

I am truly sorry for your loss.

I am an advocate of being the ultimate decison maker for our children, and not leaving it in the hands of doctors. I have stated many times that I challenge doctors and treat them as consultants.

Jack

From: miralax [mailto:miralax ] On Behalf Of Eubanks BakerSent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 9:31 AMTo: miralax Subject: Re: Miralax forum

For me personally I don't need written/medical "proof" about PeG being bad for my daughter.

My "proof" is that after I gave my daughter Miralax I witnessed her experience terrible side effects almost immediately. (Dark circles under her eyes, angry mood swings, joint pain and lots of other issues this forum has addressed...very scary and real things that we have seen happen to our children only after starting them on Miralax). This is all the proof I need that Miralax is not suitable or safe for my two year old. How it affects others is how they will come to the conclusion that it is "safe" for their child/themselves.

This forum is such a great resource for me because when I noticed my daughter changing/suffering I was SO scared. I asked her doctor if it could be the meds. She assured me it could not. I got on line, found this group, and got all the support and proof I needed that some children should not be on Miralax. She was on a 1/2 capful two weeks. The doctor wanted significantly more than that and I wonder very often what the prescribed amount would have done to her. Once off she had no circles, no anger, etc. It takes A LOT of time to keep things balanced for her to be regular, but as we all know, the effort is worth it for our children.

The only experience I have with adults and Miralax is my Mom and I taking the dose that was prescribed to my daughter. It made both of us vomit. My husband took the same and felt a little "different" but nothing significant with him.

As far as trusting doctors.... I believe doctors are a great resource. I also believe they see our children for small windows of time and that we, as parents, are with them so much more and know them so much better. My daughter has life threatening allergies to eggs and peanuts. This could not have been confirmed as accurately without the help of her allergist. However, I took my son to the doctor when he was one year, six days old because I felt like something was "wrong." I didn't know what but my intuition was something was "off." was 96% for height, 87% for weight, a head full of dark hair and beautiful blue eyes. He "looked" like the healthiest child on earth. That is what his doctor saw when she "checked" him. She sent me home know telling me to put parenting and medical books down, to relax, etc. Five days later I found dead in his crib... 30 minutes before I found him he was breathing. That was almost four years ago next month and not a day goes by that I don't question what I missed, what the doctor missed... So to take medical diagnosis into our own hands at times isn't always a bad thing. It is a protective, I want what is best for my child, kind of thing. Paper proof is valuable in many, many ways. But "living" proof, I believe, is more powerful than anything else. If we lived by what papers and bottles said instead of what we see happening to our children what kind of parents would we be? Ignoring the obvious because something isn't clear cut and documented isn't fair to our children or to us. The repercussions of waiting for proof can be and have been deadly to so many as Jeanie as pointed out with her research.

Please know that Miralax did NOT cause my son's death. He never took it. I also don't think putting someone on Miralax will kill them. My point is only to support that sometimes a Mom or Dad really does know better than a doctor...and if you're really lucky, you will find a doctor that knows better than a bottles instructions. And...if you're REALLY lucky, you could take Miralax for the rest of your life and never suffer a side effect. But that's not what most parents/people in this forum have experienced. We've seen the negative and it scares us and I believe finding alternatives to Miralax is what we are here for.

www.jacobdavidbaker.com

BakerOctober 19, 2004 ~ October 30, 2005Remembering Our Little Boy...Every Second of Every Day.

Miralax forum

It is amazing what is read in my posts that I didn't write. I wonder what type of mental image some of you have formed of me?

Here is who I am:

I am a parent. I have a kid who becomes constipated without Miralax. I know the cause of his constipation. I'm scared of using something that will harm him. Since I have not found any other viable alternatives to Miralax, I seek good information. I get combative when I read responses about this great conspiracy to hurt our kids.

If there was anything here concrete enough that I could take to a doctor, you wouldn't hear me shouting for good information.

A significant portion of what I get here states that Coke-Cola, our doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and the FDA are all trying to hurt our kids. I don't buy it.

The files are thin, very thin. I know many of you disagree with me, but without a certain degree of bias against PeG 3350, the files don't paint the picture some here see. There are assumptions that you have to believe for the files to stand up. I disagree with some of the assumptions.

Do I trust doctors? I trust that they have a much better education than I do. I trust myself to bring them the right questions. I trust that if I ask questions of them that their answers will be in some fashion derived from that education. I trust myself to press them harder when I don't trust their answer. People here don't like my questions? You should be present from some of the 'discussions' I have had with my son's doctors. Doctors do not like to be challenged either. I pay for their expertise. They need to substantiate as well.

Bonnie,

Thank you for your response. I can understand your concern based on your experiences. My case is a bit different. We don't have the contents taking weeks to move through my son's system. As such, we probably aren't seeing the same effects that a 'prolonged stay' might cause my son. I sincerely hope your daughter does well and you can find a solution to whatever is the cause of her constipation.

Yvette,

Please quit looking for the absolute worst in my posts. I said that there is SOME bad information here. I also stated that there is good information to be found here as well.

No, I do not hold a degree in chemical engineering or any related field. I wish I did. It would make it possible to better understand some of the data I have come across here and elsewhere. I am relying on common sense and mathematics. When I see articles with toxicity reports and the dosages that induced toxicity are ridiculously large, things like that jump off the page at me.

,

I have stated my reason for being here again and again. I want good information about PeG 3350 and what side effects have been documented.

Susie,

I'm really not all that lazy, just busy, as I am sure you are as well. I google this topic a whole lot. I am not finding anything out there to support the opinion of this forum. As such, I challenge this forum to share their information.

Honeymarkey,

I have stated again and again that I am not challenging anyone's personal experience. But have you tried taking "Jane Doe on the internet reports X' to your doctors as reliable information?

Jeanie,

You and I read the same words and focus on completely different aspects. You highlighted the blue, while I focused on the red.

"It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very low toxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized not at all by humans."

That is probably why we take exception to each other. "why can't you see what I see?" (could be either one of us thinking that)

We disagree. I can live with that.

,

I honestly appreciate your post. It is going to take some time to review your abstracts. The abstracts are, again, not very concrete. There are a lot of 'coulds' and 'mays' in there. For me, those are leap of faith type of stuff. But you raise valid points in your posts. You are right about my lack of sensitivty.

I apologize to everyone here for starting a ruckus. It is not my intent to minimize any of your experiences. I will try to ask my questions with greater respect for your feelings and experiences.

I'm sure none of you will be surprised if I continue my skepticism. My quest for answers has not changed.

Jack

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.99/2372 - Release Date: 09/15/09 05:59:00

[Guest guest]

Jack, I don't want to get into this, but have you ever been harmed by a Pharma drug, or by anything done by a doctor?

Doctor's are trained on drugs and surgery, not natural methods or any methods that use the body to heal and help itself.

The body is not deficient in PEG or miralax or any other chemical. It may be deficient in specific nutrients or it may not

be absorbing the nutrients due to leaky gut or any type of lack of absorption caused by food allergy or many other reasons.

So therefore, it makes sense to get to the bottom of the issue regarding the constipation, so to speak. It can be caused by

many things. Think out of the box. Chiropractors can help, naturopaths can help. If you don't want to take the advice here

then that's fine, but we know how detrimental this drug can be especially used long term. As a parent you don't want to see

you child in any type of pain and it can be hard to stop using miralax, the parent can become dependent on it due to frustration

or fear of nothing else working. Believe me I've been there. We used it for 7 years ! It is possible to get off it. My child is still

suffering from some of the effects of it even after being off it for 2 years. It took one year of the Low oxalate diet to help rid her

body of the oxalates caused by miralax. I know this to be true due to the nature of her stools and also testing. Doctors do not

explore so deeply into problems and causes like we as parents do. We love our kids and don't want them to suffer in any way,

so we go to the ends of the earth to find out what is causing the problem and how to solve it. Keep searching, but just know the

advice you get here is better than any double blind placebo study or a commercial on TV praising the virtues of the latest drug.

We're in the trenches 24/7 and this makes us experts in many ways ! Oh, BTW, many doctors believe this laxative is problematic

as well, not just the parents..............

Kathy

Miralax forum

It is amazing what is read in my posts that I didn't write. I wonder what type of mental image some of you have formed of me?

Here is who I am:

I am a parent. I have a kid who becomes constipated without Miralax. I know the cause of his constipation. I'm scared of using something that will harm him. Since I have not found any other viable alternatives to Miralax, I seek good information. I get combative when I read responses about this great conspiracy to hurt our kids.

If there was anything here concrete enough that I could take to a doctor, you wouldn't hear me shouting for good information.

[Guest guest]

Deadening nerve cells really isn't a problem for my son. Due to his having Spina Bifida, the nerve damage is already present. That is the source of his motility issues.

Both before we ever started using Miralax the stool was like balls of sand. You could literally crush them and they would disintegrate into sand. Any time we try to remove Miralax from his regimen, we see the bowel function decrease and the stool migrate back to that consistency within several days.

As many of you are aware, the ultra dry stool is the bowel removing the water from the stool.

As to the burning, we are fortunate that we haven't seen any of that with my son. The worst pain he suffers is when we don't use Miralax, the bowels are backed up, the stool is too large, and I have to try to work the stool out. It is possible the burning is there and that he simply can't feel it.

Thanks for the link on Ileus. Based on what the link stated about decreased potassium levels, and other research presented that mentions drops in potassium with Miralax, it sounds like it is important to keep potassium levels up when using Miralax.

Does anyone have any suggestions, other than bananas, on how to regulate potassium? or are bananas good enough?

We do not have to wait several days to see results when using Miralax, as some here have experienced. We see results immediately.

THE REST OF THIS POST IS ARGUING A POINT JEANIE HAS MADE. I MEAN NO DISRESPECT. IF WHAT I CONTINUE WITH HERE IS UNFAIR OR INSENSITIVE, PLEASE CLARIFY HOW I COULD BETTER ASK THESE QUESTIONS?

>>The Miralax works by being toxic and whooshes everything out.

You and I disagree on this point. Your own reference data (http://www.nytimes.com/1993/08/24/science/q-a-769093.html) states:

It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very low toxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized not at all by humans.

My understanding is that Miralax is an osmotic that encourages bowel movements by drawing water into the bowel from surrounding tissue. If under normal use it is not absorbed or metabolized at all, how is it's toxicity a factor on how it works?

What I have been reading in this forum is that the toxicity comes into play when PeG is absorbed? Long periods between bowel movements, leaky gut, and other extenuating circumstances. Again, I am interested in seeing the data you mentioned regarding high absorbation rates.

Jack

From: miralax [mailto:miralax ] On Behalf Of jeanie wardSent: Tuesday, September 15, 2009 7:33 AMTo: miralax Subject: Re: Miralax forum

Jack, you say your child can't go without Miralax, check out the word ileus, it's on the FDA adverse events, I looked up all these side affects and ileus means it puts the bowel to sleep, therefore your child can't go even if he wanted to. The Miralax works by being toxic and whooshes everything out. It also causes ileus and now they are dependent on it. It burns the skin Jack. It deadens nerve cells. The material safey data sheets says, "Do not through down the sewer"

http://www.answers.com/topic/ileus--- On Tue, 9/15/09, Jack Gershon <jackgershon (DOT) cc> wrote:

From: Jack Gershon <jackgershon (DOT) cc>Subject: Miralax forumTo: miralax Date: Tuesday, September 15, 2009, 1:00 AM

It is amazing what is read in my posts that I didn't write. I wonder what type of mental image some of you have formed of me?

Here is who I am:

I am a parent. I have a kid who becomes constipated without Miralax. I know the cause of his constipation. I'm scared of using something that will harm him. Since I have not found any other viable alternatives to Miralax, I seek good information. I get combative when I read responses about this great conspiracy to hurt our kids.

If there was anything here concrete enough that I could take to a doctor, you wouldn't hear me shouting for good information.

A significant portion of what I get here states that Coke-Cola, our doctors, pharmaceutical companies, and the FDA are all trying to hurt our kids. I don't buy it.

The files are thin, very thin. I know many of you disagree with me, but without a certain degree of bias against PeG 3350, the files don't paint the picture some here see. There are assumptions that you have to believe for the files to stand up. I disagree with some of the assumptions.

Do I trust doctors? I trust that they have a much better education than I do. I trust myself to bring them the right questions. I trust that if I ask questions of them that their answers will be in some fashion derived from that education. I trust myself to press them harder when I don't trust their answer. People here don't like my questions? You should be present from some of the 'discussions' I have had with my son's doctors. Doctors do not like to be challenged either. I pay for their expertise. They need to substantiate as well.

Bonnie,

Thank you for your response. I can understand your concern based on your experiences. My case is a bit different. We don't have the contents taking weeks to move through my son's system. As such, we probably aren't seeing the same effects that a 'prolonged stay' might cause my son. I sincerely hope your daughter does well and you can find a solution to whatever is the cause of her constipation.

Yvette,

Please quit looking for the absolute worst in my posts. I said that there is SOME bad information here. I also stated that there is good information to be found here as well.

No, I do not hold a degree in chemical engineering or any related field. I wish I did. It would make it possible to better understand some of the data I have come across here and elsewhere. I am relying on common sense and mathematics. When I see articles with toxicity reports and the dosages that induced toxicity are ridiculously large, things like that jump off the page at me.

,

I have stated my reason for being here again and again. I want good information about PeG 3350 and what side effects have been documented.

Susie,

I'm really not all that lazy, just busy, as I am sure you are as well. I google this topic a whole lot. I am not finding anything out there to support the opinion of this forum. As such, I challenge this forum to share their information.

Honeymarkey,

I have stated again and again that I am not challenging anyone's personal experience. But have you tried taking "Jane Doe on the internet reports X' to your doctors as reliable information?

Jeanie,

You and I read the same words and focus on completely different aspects. You highlighted the blue, while I focused on the red.

"It is similar to floor wax. It is a big polymer, and it has a very low toxicity because it is a large molecule that is absorbed or metabolized not at all by humans."

That is probably why we take exception to each other. "why can't you see what I see?" (could be either one of us thinking that)

We disagree. I can live with that.

,

I honestly appreciate your post. It is going to take some time to review your abstracts. The abstracts are, again, not very concrete. There are a lot of 'coulds' and 'mays' in there. For me, those are leap of faith type of stuff. But you raise valid points in your posts. You are right about my lack of sensitivty.

I apologize to everyone here for starting a ruckus. It is not my intent to minimize any of your experiences. I will try to ask my questions with greater respect for your feelings and experiences.

I'm sure none of you will be surprised if I continue my skepticism. My quest for answers has not changed.

Jack

No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - www.avg.comVersion: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.13.99/2372 - Release Date: 09/15/09 05:59:00