'tantra'

[Guest guest]

a share from our mike, the invisible college captain of jungfire

Re: [Negative-Capability] Emailing: essene

>>deb wrote: funny how all the other gods get their old haunts blown up,

innit?>>

*i think ALL gods get their haunts blown up or out of recognition sooner or

later...

ANYthing that remains within the purview of samsara is subject to coming

INTO existence, and therefore to aging, changing, running out of energy and

disappearing back out of it - that's how being works (which also,

incidentally, gives the lie to Enoch and - hence - the rest of it)... It's

not a question of evil 'coming into' the world, but that as long as we read

the ons and offs as good and bad rather than simply as open and shut, we are

hoist with our own petard... On/off is inherent in the world, the 'ten

thousand things', because on/off IS the yang and the yin, the weave (which

what 'tantra' means) of which the universe is woven...

Some things wink in and out of existence in (what seems to us) a mere

eyeblink (but may well be subjective aeons as far as they're concerned).

Others seem to us to take forever (but may well be an eyeblink to something

else)... Look upon my works ye mighty and despair!...

All of which is running round in circles - samsara.

Then there is the vastness of ultimate time/space, where none of this is of

the least moment at all... It comes and goes like the mental static in our

own brains, like the ebb and flow of winds and tides, and is part and parcel

but of no ultimate significance...

From there something can be done to help.

Otherwise we are like two non-swimmmers drowning each other in our hopeless

desire that we can help the other be saved. We just pull each other down.

" To look with the eyes and see with the heart is the secret of the

Philosopher's Stone. " ~Petrus Bonus

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

---------------------

from deb:

Thank you for this.

Well. I don't question its purpose, its why. It just is. The field of

opposites and the flow of energy, the " gradients " you describe: seems to my

lack of thinking that the flow is what it's for, if for has any meaning.

Beyond this, as Jung said, it's all a new type of peripatetic. I guess

that's the dance.

And so we walk in the circles. Is it to get out of them? Is it about us, the

wheel, some ultimate thingy, as in undoing some mistake, some dark seed that

fell into matter, Sophia's son, Sauron's model, who thinks he's the only

god? That's so egocentric. I think we just walk is all. Because (and

the because is simply the human making meaning: it's what we do. Instinct.)

Because:

THIS:

*Our individual moments of compassion --

*that one moment when Sisyphus's boulder is still, just before it changes

direction --

*that sympathy and seeing self in other that ultimately jacks up and allows

the

frenzy that lets the Ring take itself down Mt. Doom:

that is our own, our heart, our breath.

Philemon in The Red Book was Jung's " guide for much of the time was the

only-half imagined Philemon, the wise old man whose influence convinced Jung

'there are things in the psyche which I do not produce, but which produce

themselves and have their own life.' "

" That which is creative creates itself. " Keats

******

aside -- the pagan girl in the emails that are going around (she was on a

town

council and sued to have prayer banned, and now they've blinded her dog

etc.): . I think that's all a sham. My crap detector says so. The righteous

uglies of the net want us to go to the streets where they can pick us off.

That's important enough to say again, I think.

The righteous uglies of the net want us to go to the streets where they can

pick us off.

It's simpler that auditing all our tax forms (though they'll do that too).

Trying even now, tucking little laws in here and there like they did with

the Patriot Act and NAFTA. But I think it is important to get this message

out: *Passive and clever resistance to cruelty.* Post the news that's not

getting out everywhere. I don't believe in evil, but I do recognize cruelty.

x's

And do a dance for me. I'm worse.

GOD FORGIVE AMERICA

[Guest guest]

Thought of:

I LIVE MY LIFE

I live my life in growing orbits,

which move out over the things of the world.

Perhaps I can never acheive the last,

but that will be my attempt.

I am circling around God, around the ancient tower,

and I have been circling for a thousand years,

and I still don't know if I am a falcon, or a storm,

or a great song.

--Rainer Rilke (translation by Bly)

Bruce

funny how all the other gods get their old haunts blown up,

> innit?>>

>

>

> *i think ALL gods get their haunts blown up or out of recognition

sooner or

> later...

> ANYthing that remains within the purview of samsara is subject to coming

> INTO existence, and therefore to aging, changing, running out of

energy and

> disappearing back out of it - that's how being works (which also,

> incidentally, gives the lie to Enoch and - hence - the rest of

it)... It's

> not a question of evil 'coming into' the world, but that as long as

we read

> the ons and offs as good and bad rather than simply as open and

shut, we are

> hoist with our own petard... On/off is inherent in the world, the 'ten

> thousand things', because on/off IS the yang and the yin, the weave

(which

> what 'tantra' means) of which the universe is woven...

> Some things wink in and out of existence in (what seems to us) a mere

> eyeblink (but may well be subjective aeons as far as they're concerned).

> Others seem to us to take forever (but may well be an eyeblink to

something

> else)... Look upon my works ye mighty and despair!...

> All of which is running round in circles - samsara.

> Then there is the vastness of ultimate time/space, where none of

this is of

> the least moment at all... It comes and goes like the mental static

in our

> own brains, like the ebb and flow of winds and tides, and is part

and parcel

> but of no ultimate significance...

> From there something can be done to help.

> Otherwise we are like two non-swimmmers drowning each other in our

hopeless

> desire that we can help the other be saved. We just pull each other

down.

>

>

>

> " To look with the eyes and see with the heart is the secret of the

> Philosopher's Stone. " ~Petrus Bonus

>

>

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ---------------------

> from deb:

>

> Thank you for this.

>

> Well. I don't question its purpose, its why. It just is. The field of

> opposites and the flow of energy, the " gradients " you describe:

seems to my

> lack of thinking that the flow is what it's for, if for has any meaning.

> Beyond this, as Jung said, it's all a new type of peripatetic. I guess

> that's the dance.

>

> And so we walk in the circles. Is it to get out of them? Is it about

us, the

> wheel, some ultimate thingy, as in undoing some mistake, some dark

seed that

> fell into matter, Sophia's son, Sauron's model, who thinks he's the only

> god? That's so egocentric. I think we just walk is all. Because (and

> the because is simply the human making meaning: it's what we do.

Instinct.)

> Because:

>

> THIS:

> *Our individual moments of compassion --

> *that one moment when Sisyphus's boulder is still, just before it

changes

> direction --

> *that sympathy and seeing self in other that ultimately jacks up and

allows

> the

> frenzy that lets the Ring take itself down Mt. Doom:

>

> that is our own, our heart, our breath.

>

> Philemon in The Red Book was Jung's " guide for much of the time was the

> only-half imagined Philemon, the wise old man whose influence

convinced Jung

> 'there are things in the psyche which I do not produce, but which

produce

> themselves and have their own life.' "

>

> " That which is creative creates itself. " Keats

>

> ******

>

> aside -- the pagan girl in the emails that are going around (she was

on a

> town

> council and sued to have prayer banned, and now they've blinded her dog

> etc.): . I think that's all a sham. My crap detector says so. The

righteous

> uglies of the net want us to go to the streets where they can pick

us off.

>

> That's important enough to say again, I think.

>

> The righteous uglies of the net want us to go to the streets where

they can

> pick us off.

>

> It's simpler that auditing all our tax forms (though they'll do that

too).

> Trying even now, tucking little laws in here and there like they did

with

> the Patriot Act and NAFTA. But I think it is important to get this

message

> out: *Passive and clever resistance to cruelty.* Post the news

that's not

> getting out everywhere. I don't believe in evil, but I do recognize

cruelty.

>

> x's

>

> And do a dance for me. I'm worse.

>

>

> GOD FORGIVE AMERICA

[Guest guest]

Thanks for this Bruce.

x's

deborah

mike replied (and we blogged this so I pass it along)

deb: Well. I don't question its purpose, its why. It just is.

Actually, what's important is that it has two ways of 'is-ing'...

One just sweeps you away and gets you caught up in the flicker of on-offs, your

thoughts solidifying even as you think them, and then spawining new ones, as

infinitum - all of them solid and turgid and impossible to work with.

The other is to realise the fountain of becoming - the richness of the display

and its inherent emptiness as a single gesture - and not to get *caught up* in

the creation of the saga, but (as Lao-tzu says) to simply remain with source, or

(as the Buddhists say) not to lose sight of the fact that wave is inherent in

the ocean, the cloud innate to the nature of the sky... You don't have to

dissolve the clouds or stop the waves; just understand them for what they are.

Then, instead of being dragged round in circles, you walk of your own free will,

and - because you can now walk with both hands free - you can chopwood, draw

water and hire foolish wise men to bring snow so you can fill the wells with

them. It's for *them* you walk, *not* because you're constrained by your own

bewilderment to do so.

deb:The field of opposites and the flow of energy, the " gradients " you describe:

seems to my lack of thinking that the flow is what it's for, if for has any

meaning.

*Meaning it certainly has - it is the endless source and display of great bliss

- the very body, speech and mind of the innermost teacher... If you become

attached to perceptions and emotions, turning them into something that they are

not, the fountain dries up, the images freeze, the 'radiance' dims - dulls! -

and you are left with a world that is actually only your own perception, no

matter how real it seems. I'll give you an example: This morning I dreamt that

Vera had finally had enough of me and wanted me out... This is the dream as I

noted it in my 'diary'...

" ... I wake to hear Vera still downstairs.

The kids are somewhere upstairs with me, shocked into utter silence.

I make my way down. She's in the bare front room next to the long, dead stairway

that leads almost directly to the front door.

I tell her I'll accept her divorce terms and leave.

She regards me with utter contempt as I try to get one tiniest spark of

recognition from her, but everything I do is just another sign of my

uselessness.

Finally, as I go back up to get my stuff and realise I'll be leaving the country

too (what reason is there, now, to stay there?) I ask for the phone numbers of

two friends which she says she'll leave for me.

I know my salary for this will cover my immediate needs, but now realise that

I'll probably never see the kids again, either, and, as I walk back into my room

to pack, burst into heart-broken tears

.... "

Blah, blah blah!...

At this point, I awoke, and she was just coming into the room to get dressed. I

told her the dream and she took me in her arms and held me very tight and said

" I love you, you nutter. I'm not about to divorce you! " So it's just a dream you

might say, or interesting dream, or what is that dream trying to tell you? but

what it IS telling me is that I'm projecting insecurities (and securities) (and

every other possible mental 'movie') I hardly even know I have on everything,

all the time, and that what I see of anything I actually do see is generally

long gone by the time I've waded through all my references surrounding it. The

dream 'reality' (because it IS reality when I'm dreaming it) makes me feel

'heart-broken', 'scared', 'bad'; the waking 'reality' (because it IS reality

when I'm awake in it) makes me feel 'better', 'safer' and evn 'good', but what

is there actually between them?

They're both experienced by me as me and my world and the only thing I can say

with absolute certainty about either of them is that I experienced them. I

cannot lay claim to the veridicality of either experience - I simply had them.

Suzanne sent that letter the other day with the Goethe quote...

" I have come to the frightening conclusion that I am the decisive element.

It is my personal approach that creates the climate.

It is my daily mood that makes the weather.

I possess tremendous power to make life miserable or joyous.

I can be a tool of torture or an instrument of inspiration.

I can humiliate or humor, hurt or heal.

In all situations, it is my response that decides whether a crisis is escalated

or de-escalated, and a

person is humanized or de-humanized.

If we treat people as they are, we make them worse.

If we treat people as they ought to be, we help them become what they are

capable of becoming. "

This is the whole point... Whether experience is veridical or not is neither

here nor there. What is important is what you DO with it, and - even more

particularly - why.

deb: Beyond this, as Jung said, it's all circular. A new type of peripatetic, he

said. I guess that's the dance.

*Have you ever read the gnostic Hymn of Jesus?

And so we walk in the circles. Is it to get out of them? Is it about us, the

wheel, some ultimate thingy, as in undoing some mistake, some dark seed that

fell into matter, Sophia's son, Sauron's model, who thinks he's the only god?

* I often quote the poem by Hakuin concerning Tokuun hiring foolish wise men to

bring snow and then filling wells with them, don't I? What is this ultimately

about? He 'comes down from his seat of marvellous attainment' and does something

utterly dimwitted - Why?

Because the foolish wise men think it's wise is why, and because he knows that

the only way to get beyond their foolish wisdom is to go along with them, to

join with them, to be one with them in their stupidity and their lostness...

That any attempt to intervene from " without " is doomed from the very outset;

that you have to be one with them if your wisdom is the real wisdom that

manifests only as loving kindness and compassion.

Walking round in circles, or being dragged round them by the nose, serves no

purpose whatsoever except as a pointer that something is not as it should be.

We tend, whenever things go wrong (or even go right), to look into something

outside ourselves as the cause ...and as the effect... So-and-so did

such-and-such and now *I* am experiencing such-and-such a result which I either

like or don't like... I am the victim of this, that and the next thing... One of

the major " satoris " (if I may grace it with so elevated a name) in my brief life

was suddenly actually hearing a verse of Dylan's song 'I Shall be Released' and

understanding what it meant.

now yonder stands a man in this lonely crowd

a man who swears he's not to blame

all day long i hear him shouting so loud

crying out 'i was framed'

" That's RIGHT! " I shouted at myself. " That's WRONG! " - and I knew I had been

doing that ever since I could remember. Been trying to stop ever since ..

deb: Because:

THIS:

*Our individual moments of compassion --

*that one moment when Sisyphus's boulder is still, just before it changes

direction --

*that sympathy and seeing self in other that ultimately jacks up and allows

the frenzy that lets the Ring take itself down Mt. Doom:

THAT is our own, our heart, our breath.

*Yes. Nothing to do with ends-in-view...

Just do what you can (I had an amazing realisation the other day that Vera is

one of the VERY few people I know who actually DOES *DO* what she can, rather

than expostulate about it or cringe before it - explains why I love her so)

In The Red Book, Jung's " guide for much of the time was the only-half imagined

Philemon, the wise old man whose influence convinced Jung there are things in

the psyche which I do not produce, but which produce themselves and have their

own life. "

*Hmmm.

I hae ma VERRRRY strrrenuous doots!... But if this meant in the same vein as the

Keats quote, you mention ( " That which is creative creates itself. " ), then

yes... Hand-knitted... The point being how you choose - what you choose for -

your wool!

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