Re: a question about my son's poop pattern..a withholder

January 13, 2009

Hi ,

Have you tried doing a treasure box? You can put little toys in in

and he gets to choose one each time he goes. Or candy. I'm sure

you've done this kind of stuff before. We find that it takes

constant creativity on our part to keep our son motivated not to

withhold. We're always trying to come up with new ideas. We have

also done small soy ice cream sandwiches as a " prize " for going or a

special movie. Maybe on Day 2 (the day you hope he goes) you can

remind him verbally of the treats he'll get to choose from if he

goes.

I find that when we get into a rhthym of him going daily, he won't

need as many treats, but every week is different. When he regresses

into " severe withholding behavior " with lots of anxiety where he

will hold for many days, then we ramp up the rewards and incentives

and will do candy to sit and reward with toy and candy if he goes,

etc.

Cristina

>

> my son is 3 and is a withholder. he is no longer on mineral oil

or

> any other stool softeners or laxatives since mid-october. he is

on

> probiotics and prune and plum juice, though i have given him a

> laxative once or twice durint this time to get him going again.

>

> i have been keep track of his poops for a few weeks and he usually

> goes a big poop one day, the next day nothing, the day after that

he

> needs to go and usually makes some skids in his pants and holds

it,

> and finally the day after that he makes another big one and the

cycle

> starts over again. so i feel that he needs to go about every

other

> day, but holds it that one extra day. my question is, how do i

get

> him to go on that day he needs to go, which would be two days

after

> his last big poop, as opposed to holding it and having the skids

in

> his pants? i know it is a question for the ages, how to get a

> withholder to not withhold? he loves the movie WALLE and i now am

> not letting his watch it except for the days he makes a good

poopie

> in the potty. i feel like he needs an incentive that i can

control.

>

> anyone have any thoughts on how to get him to a schedule where he

> will go every other day? i would be happy with that. i have been

> doing potty sits every day, once in the morning and once in the

> afternoon, and sometimes once after dinner on the days i know he

is

> withholding. he usually sits pretty good, but that one day he

> withholds, he doesnt care to sit for very long.

>

> any ideas would be appreciated. BTW, when he does poop, they are

> normal diameter, usally look like a banana (sorry for the graphic

> description). about a year ago, before he started the mineral

oil,

> they looked like softballs.

>

> just venting and frustrated, thanks for listening.

> kelly

>

January 13, 2009

hi cristina,

how is your son doing? is he potty trained or training? has he been

making a lot of progress with the withholding business? i hope so.

my son is up and down. thanks for your ideas. i just need to keep

things interesting for him.

kelly

> >

> > my son is 3 and is a withholder. he is no longer on mineral oil

> or

> > any other stool softeners or laxatives since mid-october. he is

> on

> > probiotics and prune and plum juice, though i have given him a

> > laxative once or twice durint this time to get him going again.

> >

> > i have been keep track of his poops for a few weeks and he

usually

> > goes a big poop one day, the next day nothing, the day after that

> he

> > needs to go and usually makes some skids in his pants and holds

> it,

> > and finally the day after that he makes another big one and the

> cycle

> > starts over again. so i feel that he needs to go about every

> other

> > day, but holds it that one extra day. my question is, how do i

> get

> > him to go on that day he needs to go, which would be two days

> after

> > his last big poop, as opposed to holding it and having the skids

> in

> > his pants? i know it is a question for the ages, how to get a

> > withholder to not withhold? he loves the movie WALLE and i now

am

> > not letting his watch it except for the days he makes a good

> poopie

> > in the potty. i feel like he needs an incentive that i can

> control.

> >

> > anyone have any thoughts on how to get him to a schedule where he

> > will go every other day? i would be happy with that. i have been

> > doing potty sits every day, once in the morning and once in the

> > afternoon, and sometimes once after dinner on the days i know he

> is

> > withholding. he usually sits pretty good, but that one day he

> > withholds, he doesnt care to sit for very long.

> >

> > any ideas would be appreciated. BTW, when he does poop, they are

> > normal diameter, usally look like a banana (sorry for the graphic

> > description). about a year ago, before he started the mineral

> oil,

> > they looked like softballs.

> >

> > just venting and frustrated, thanks for listening.

> > kelly

> >

>

January 13, 2009

,

I know how you feel! I have a witholder also. Im looking into getting a good guide called soiling solutions. I try to give treats, etc and our last resort is giving him a natural laxative if need be. I don't like for him to go more than a day without going. I have not tried the mineral oil but that is an option for me too! I do potty sits two and three times a day too. It's exhausting staying on top of it all.

Cayce

Subject: a question about my son's poop pattern..a withholderTo: miralax Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 2:52 PM

my son is 3 and is a withholder. he is no longer on mineral oil or any other stool softeners or laxatives since mid-october. he is on probiotics and prune and plum juice, though i have given him a laxative once or twice durint this time to get him going again.i have been keep track of his poops for a few weeks and he usually goes a big poop one day, the next day nothing, the day after that he needs to go and usually makes some skids in his pants and holds it, and finally the day after that he makes another big one and the cycle starts over again. so i feel that he needs to go about every other day, but holds it that one extra day. my question is, how do i get him to go on that day he needs to go, which would be two days after his last big poop, as opposed to holding it and having the skids in his pants? i know it is a question for the ages, how to get a withholder to not withhold? he loves the

movie WALLE and i now am not letting his watch it except for the days he makes a good poopie in the potty. i feel like he needs an incentive that i can control.anyone have any thoughts on how to get him to a schedule where he will go every other day? i would be happy with that. i have been doing potty sits every day, once in the morning and once in the afternoon, and sometimes once after dinner on the days i know he is withholding. he usually sits pretty good, but that one day he withholds, he doesnt care to sit for very long.any ideas would be appreciated. BTW, when he does poop, they are normal diameter, usally look like a banana (sorry for the graphic description) . about a year ago, before he started the mineral oil, they looked like softballs. just venting and frustrated, thanks for listening.kelly

January 13, 2009

hi cayce, what is soiling solutions? i havent heard of that guide

before? where do you get it? how old is your little one? it is

exhausting. i read that potty sits are a good way to retrain the

bowel. i think that is what my son needs. he held it for so long,

at least 18 months if not longer, and then he was on mineral oil for

8 months, which works, but it doesnt allow your bowels to work. so i

pulled him off of everything trying to get him and and his bowels a

chance to learn how to do it on their own. i dont expect him to go

every day, but every other day is necessary. thanks for your help,

and good luck to you also.

kelly

>

> Subject: a question about my son's poop pattern..a

withholder

> To: miralax

> Date: Tuesday, January 13, 2009, 2:52 PM

>

> my son is 3 and is a withholder. he is no longer on mineral oil or

> any other stool softeners or laxatives since mid-october. he is on

> probiotics and prune and plum juice, though i have given him a

> laxative once or twice durint this time to get him going again.

>

> i have been keep track of his poops for a few weeks and he usually

> goes a big poop one day, the next day nothing, the day after that

he

> needs to go and usually makes some skids in his pants and holds it,

> and finally the day after that he makes another big one and the

cycle

> starts over again. so i feel that he needs to go about every other

> day, but holds it that one extra day. my question is, how do i get

> him to go on that day he needs to go, which would be two days after

> his last big poop, as opposed to holding it and having the skids in

> his pants? i know it is a question for the ages, how to get a

> withholder to not withhold? he loves the movie WALLE and i now am

> not letting his watch it except for the days he makes a good poopie

> in the potty. i feel like he needs an incentive that i can control.

>

> anyone have any thoughts on how to get him to a schedule where he

> will go every other day? i would be happy with that. i have been

> doing potty sits every day, once in the morning and once in the

> afternoon, and sometimes once after dinner on the days i know he is

> withholding. he usually sits pretty good, but that one day he

> withholds, he doesnt care to sit for very long.

>

> any ideas would be appreciated. BTW, when he does poop, they are

> normal diameter, usally look like a banana (sorry for the graphic

> description) . about a year ago, before he started the mineral oil,

> they looked like softballs.

>

> just venting and frustrated, thanks for listening.

> kelly

>

January 13, 2009

Hi ,

My son (now 4) used to withhold - at one point (almost 2 yrs ago now)

he was saying things to his bottom like " Poopie Stay IN! " While I

know there is a psychological aspect to this, I strongly believe it

all started because he was having painful poops back then (as

evidenced by their size, and sometimes he would have a little bleeding

as they passed. (Thankfully, though, no big or recurring fissures.)

He had painful gas and BMs as an infant, with blood and mucus,

too, until I cut certain foods from my diet while breastfeeding - so I

suspected that, for him, the recurrence of painful poop as a 18-24

month old was likely due to the introduction of certain foods to his

own diet. (BTW - our pediatrician was highly skeptical about this

possibility, thought it was all in his head, but has been supportive

and surprised as his story evolved and now, I think, believes it

*might* not always be simply a psychological issue).

Back then (when he was 2 to about 3 yrs old) I tried almost everything

out there to help him get over the withholding. Daily " sit times. "

Rewards. Poopie Dances when it happened. Excitement over each

" event. " Charts and stickers to build up to really big rewards.

Special Mommy-only or Daddy-only time (e.g., a special one-on-one play

date without baby brother in tow). Etc. Etc.

Sometimes, I think in doing those things with him, I taught him that

he has control over us in this way. Then it seems to me to become

much like other 2, 3 and 4 yr old's behaviors - testing their limits,

seeking control in whichever way they can to express their

independence and confidence.

I am a firm believer that there is a root cause of the constipation

and/or painful stooling that leads a child to begin withholding. And

I'm a firm believer that the withholding will not be easy to overcome

without figuring out what that root cause is.

I believe this for a few reasons - one is the amount of

reading/researching I've done on the topic (see, e.g., the article in

the Files section on Long Term Follow Up of children who were treated

with a laxative plan, bowel training, etc. - but no attempt to get to

the root cause of the constipation - a large portion of those kids

still had withholding and stooling issues into their tweens and young

adulthood - which says to me that it's NOT all in their heads).

Another reason I believe this is our own experiences. There was one

outstanding week for us when we first went gluten-free (on top of

already being dairy-, egg-, soy-, and corn-free) that he went daily -

on the toilet or potty - with no prompting, no squirming, no request

for rewards, nothing. Most of that week, I never even knew he'd

pooped until he called out that he wanted some help wiping himself.

These days, he poops every 1-3 days, but like your son, there are some

days that he surely *needs* to go, but holds it in (and I can usually

trace back to a dietary issue or forgotten supplement).

The difference about that week of pooping freely every day and now, is

that we were entirely grain-free that week. At that time, I wasn't

fully committed to the idea of being gluten-free, so I did not rush

out and buy gluten-free alternative products or flours or any

substitutes for gluten foods. We just ate foods that we already had

in our house that did not have gluten. That was basically meats and a

lot of produce.

I wish I had the stamina to remain totally grain-free longer, but once

I got our Enterolab testing back and committed to gluten-free, I began

dabbling in the alternative grains and products. He (and I) have

reacted to some of these (so we stop using them), but in that process,

had painful poops and the withholding rears its ugly head for a while.

Then we would start the rewards or the talks about how important it

is to eliminate the waste from our bodies or the special treatments,

etc., and I think he's reminded of the power it gives him.

Another thing that DH and I probably over did was our excitement with

each BM and the sheer size of them after a 2-3 day spell. Recently, it

seems that our astonishment at their size some days seems to

absolutely thrill our son and now he sometimes says he *wants* to keep

them in until they're bigger and will clog the toilet because it's so

funny.

So, I guess all I'm suggesting is to choose carefully how to get him

through the withholding. Obviously, it should not be ignored. But, I

think figuring out how to give them confidence and letting them feel

good about having regular BMs without giving them a sense of having a

special 'power' in the process is a tricky endeavor. One which I am

still working on.

I'm at a place now where I treat each BM as if it were any other

'normal' part of a day - like brushing teeth, getting dressed, peeing,

etc. No special attention, it just happens. I keep close attention

to his diet and his supplements, and will tweak his supps (e.g., extra

magnesium and vit C) if he skips even one day of BM) - it's subtle and

he doesn't even know there has been any attention to his poop or lack

there of. If he does ask for something special after a BM (because

he's gotten so used to special treatment when he poops), I simply

explain how baby brother doesn't get a treat for pooping, Mommy and

Daddy do not get treats for pooping, we all just do it & it's part of

our day. Sometimes he seems disappointed, but the requests seem to be

diminishing.

As has been mentioned here many times, each child is different. I do

think figuring out the root cause of the constipation (e.g., food

intolerance, gut dysbiosis (yeast, parasites, lack of good

flora, etc.), virus, thyroid function, nerve/motility issues, etc.) is

of utmost importance. Supplements to help the BMs stay soft and occur

regularly should help. The rest...the more psychological aspect. .

..it's clearly very tricky.

Hang in there & good luck!

best,

>

> my son is 3 and is a withholder. he is no longer on mineral oil or

> any other stool softeners or laxatives since mid-october. he is on

> probiotics and prune and plum juice, though i have given him a

> laxative once or twice durint this time to get him going again.

>

> i have been keep track of his poops for a few weeks and he usually

> goes a big poop one day, the next day nothing, the day after that he

> needs to go and usually makes some skids in his pants and holds it,

> and finally the day after that he makes another big one and the cycle