Re: Re: Tapering sleep meds

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

 

loved your post.  but i am confused.  i was told that while tapering i should stay away from anything, even natural, that would fill the benzo receptors.  it would not allow the valium to fill it and make the taper harder.  i really like what you did and would choose to add the natural stuff.  was told by TRAP that the receptors needed to heal also, so not to take stuff for a while after taper.

 

can you provide where your protocol comes from.  would really like to see it.  i prefer the natural and at my point think i might be helpful.  TRAP doesn't want you to take even any supps etc, but i have cheated because i know there were some i needed.  however i've had a very difficult taper so not sure if the natural stuff harmed me or if it is the lyme and cos that made it harder.

 

anyway,  would like to look at what you've done and maybe add it to my protocol

 

thx

barbara

 

Hi Bonnie,I haven't posted in months on the forum (life has been crazy, my health good and bad). But, I wanted to post because you are right where I was at one year ago. Some of you might remember that I have been seeing a doctor who uses plant stem cell tinctures. (they are amazing).

Anyway, part of my protocol was to 'reset' my benzodiazapine receptors. For this I started taking California Poppy during the day (30 drops, 3x/day, empty stomach) and 100 drops of Linden Tree at bedtime (more is not better).  After being on these PSC for 6-8 weeks, I began to cut down on my meds. I was taking 10 mg Ambien and 1 mg of xanax.  I had my doc write the script for 2 (5mg) of Ambien (which the insurance fought each time) and 3-4 .25 xanax.  Since these pills are tiny, more of them at lower doses makes cutting small decreases easier. (A friend, even uses a nail file, I used a razor blade.)

So, on the night I would decrease my meds I would increase my one or more of my naturals (melatonin, L-ornithine, GABA, whatever works for you.) I would not decrease both meds - just one - by 1/10th-ishUsually, I would sleep that night but maybe wake up a few times.

The next night I would take the same dose of meds and naturals -- this night would usually be good sleep.Within 3-4 nights my sleep would be 'good' and I would start tappering down on the naturals to my 'acceptable dose'. (I am still on naturals)

At the two week mark, now sleeping good, I would repeat the process all over again:Tapper the ambien, by 1/10th - increase my naturals - rough night or two, then sleeping OK, then tappering naturals.After I was off the ambien, I did the same thing with xanax.

If i had a bad night and just couldn't sleep, I would take some benadryl or even an extra xanax, BUT the next night I would go right back to my previous night's dose.All in all it took me one year to wean. I believe the PSC were very helpful and the iodine really helped. My PSC are by prescription only, but if you google Gemmo you can order that brand (look for the latin names). PSC are very potent tinctures - I don't think anyone would get near the results with regular tinctures like HerbPharm, etc.

Other things I've found helpful: I do not eat after dinner - this is critical for me. Also, no caffeine, chocolate or sugar after 2p.m)30 minutes before bed, I make a cocktail of some water, iodine, Linden and magnesium. I take melatonin and L-tryptophan.

If I am desperately hungry - I'll eat 30 minutes after taking my supplements.I've also found that rotating other naturals helps - my body seems to build up a tolerance. I take an extremely high dose of melatonin - 60mg - it works for me.

As a side note: I had completed 3 months of taking MMS every hour of the waking day (well, just about) in September. I was doing pretty darn good. But did get rather toxic. Some thorough detoxing helped. Then I slacked off on the MMS. Around Thanksgiving I started going down hill fast with horrific brain fog. I detoxed, but that wasn't helping. Actually, I think that I over detoxed and wiped out my good stuff with the bad - this being apparent with almost psychotic thoughts. Went back on MMS, but didn't want to create too many more toxins- so I stopped. It finally dawned on me that liver was probably toxic as well, as my gut.

Right now, I'm doing a Hulda liver cleanse tonight. Will continue to work on my liver.Will be following the Body Ecology Diet to heal my leaky gut. I know this is a huge issue for me that I have not wanted to address. This diet focuses not only on anti-candida, but on fermented veggies (yuck, I'll learn to like) and coconut water kefir - doesn't sound too bad. The diet allows for some grains (well, seeds like quinoa, millet, amaranth), so I think I can follow it.

In about two weeks, I'll re-introduce MMS, slowly being sure to baby my liver and being vigilant on detoxing.I do see all your threads on my email daily and pray for your health. It's just one of those times in life, that I can't stretch myself too thin.

I do wish you all a very happy new year!

 

Thanks everyone for the posts. It does seem a hard call whether to switch to valium or taper from ambien and xanax. Logically, if valium stays in your system longer, it seems a better idea, especially if lack of sleep is the biggest issue. But then is valium really that much more addictive than xanax and ambien. I really dont know which is the worst of the evils. Sounds like what you were on, Barbara, was perhaps even worse. They all affect the CNS and the natural chemistry of the body. I have spent one week just keeping a record of exactly what I am taking and when.

> > > > I am attempting to come off years of using ambien and recent increase in> > > > xanax for sleep. I have found a site called the trap and they have lots

> > > of> > > > resources based on Dr Ashton from england. They are not quick to let one> > > > into the fold but have given some advice. They suggested crossing over to> > > > valium and then tapering down. Problem with that is my doc and I guess

> > > most> > > > docs in the US dont want to give you valium. It has a longer 1/2 life and> > > > supposedly has less withdrawal if you taper very slowly. Anyone have any> > > > knowledge about this. I had no idea when I started how " habit forming "

> > > and> > > > difficult to withdraw from the benzo's and Z(ambien, zolpidem) drugs> > > were.> > > > I also did not know I was so dependent on them until I tried to quit.

> > > What I> > > > thought was reaction to not getting good sleep when I would try to stop> > > them> > > > was really a chemical dependence. It certainly seems a crime to give

> > > someone> > > > that already has insomnia a pill with the side effects of increased> > > > insomnia. Sure it works for awhile, with terrible side effects of mental> > > > confusion, anxiety, digestive problems, but if you start taking more, you

> > > > continually need more and you actually can get sick from not taking the> > > > increased amount.> > > >> > > > Bonnie> > > >> > > >Thanks for the responses. Barbara, I tried to go cold turkey and that was a big mistake. I had the worst anxiety attacks, agoraphobia, panic, nausea. Im not sure if it was the xanax or the ambien. What I did learn on the trap was that because ambien and even xanax has a short 1/2 life and if you try to just use it for sleep meds once a night you can be experiencing withdrawal effects every day. It really does change your personality. But like you say, the medical community is in great denial about these drugs. They shouldnt be prescribed for sleep. Even the Z drugs, which are similar to the benzo's, are hypnotics and are not suppose to be used for years. But many people do use them because they cant sleep. These drugs are tranquilizers! And all the years I thought it was the lyme causing the sleep problems, which in part it could be. But when I went off cold turkey and got as sick as I did, I knew it wasnt just the lyme. It was a physiological dependence. If you google and read how these drugs work on your body and CNS you will understand how much they change your natural chemistry, ruin your memory, disturb your sleep even more, etc, etc. Im not sure if I should taper the ambien or completely switch over to valium, then taper. The problem is my MD will only give me 10 mg of valium...so I am trying to not take another 1/2 ambien when I wake up at 4 am. In fact, since I am on the valium I am actually sleeping about 6 hours vs my regular 4 hours(and woke exhausted). I wonder if the doctors just dont know how these short acting drugs really affect people, or they dont care, or they know and what us to keep coming back so they can then put us on SSRI, antipsychotics, lithium...because now they think we are crazy because we are attempting to withdraw from " habit forming " drugs that cause terrible, even life threatening reactions.

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