RE: OT-In the news...

[Guest guest]

Being a Rottwieler owner myself, this has a flip side. It's another

news story where a certain breed of dog will be targeted as " Mean " or

" Dangerous " . The media needs to make sure that they place blame

correctly; on the people and/or circumstances that made these animals

killers. Domestic dogs by nature and companions. Just like your husband

or wife or partner; they'll be a kind companion for the duration of

their life, but they'll also defend you when they perceive you're

threatened. They don't know violence, or jealously, or how to reason.

They do what they're trained to do. I sometimes wonder if I was being

chased by a police dog, if I turned around, got on one knee and said

" here boy!!! " if they'd come and cuddle with me.

My dog wouldn't hurt a fly, yet when I went shopping for homeowner's

insurance awhile back, I was denied from my first choice of company

because of my dog. He was considered a " high risk " breed. Yet, more

people are injured by Jack Terriers each year than they are by

Rottwielers.

This was a tragic situation; there's no denying that. My prayers go out

to the lovely lady whose life was stripped from her, and also to the

lady who likely will spend the rest of her life in prison because she

made the mistake of thinking she could control an animal that she

couldn't. She certainly will not have the opportunity to make that

mistake again.

************************************************************************

*****************************

Tammy B

baltazar@...

Windows Messenger - tbscsoccer@...

OT-In the news...

Well, I'd like to say that certain prayers of mine were certainly

answered today. I just heard the news on TV... Without wanting to

incite a controversy, let me offer my most heartfelt prayers for the

dear lady who was killed by the dog in San Francisco, and her

partner. May God bless everyone involved...

Ava Lee

[Guest guest]

I agree Tammy, this can be such a controversial topic. I bet its frustrating

when your beloved pet gets a bad rap because of bad pet owners.

We had many dogs when I was growing up. With all of them we went through

obedience training and they not only stayed in a kennel outside when we

were not around, but the kennel was inside a 6 foot cedar fence. They were

very gentle dogs with us but protective of us around strangers and we were

keenly aware of that.

I get upset with people who are really careless. I don't let my kids go up

to strange dogs in the park or whatever. Even if the owners believe that it

is OK. As wonderful as some of our family dogs are they are still

unpredictable animals. My step mother has a dog that has nipped at my girls

on several occasions. Not a friendly nip either but a " get away from me "

sort of thing. My stepmom still goes " Oh don't worry he will never really

bite them. " How can she be so sure? She gets mad at me when I ask that he be

put outside while we are there. That is the sort of stuff that makes me so

frustrated.

I was mualed by a bull terrier when I wandered in to a neighbors back yard

(I was 8 at the time). The dog was loosely tied up and broke the rope. This

was an unfenced yard in a neighborhood full of children. I just wish people

would be more aware of potential dangers.

-- OT-In the news...

Well, I'd like to say that certain prayers of mine were certainly

answered today. I just heard the news on TV... Without wanting to

incite a controversy, let me offer my most heartfelt prayers for the

dear lady who was killed by the dog in San Francisco, and her

partner. May God bless everyone involved...

Ava Lee

[Guest guest]

TAMMY--I did not post what I posted in order to start a controversy,

though I do disagree with your 'flip' side. I will never believe that

ANY animal is 'by nature and(are) companions. Just like your husband

or wife or partner: they'll be a kind companion for the rest of their

life, but they'll also defend you when they perceive you're

threatened. They don't know violence or jealously(jealousy)'...

In NONE of the three dog cases--which by no means are the only ones--

were the dogs or owners of the dogs being threatened by ANYONE.

Animals are animals and people are people. The mistake comes when the

animal owners THINK their animals are as nice or thinking as people

can be--and by attributing human characteristics to them.

There is jealousy even among my 3 cats--and two of them are related!

(And they can get into it, or tear up the house, whether or I

is present or not!) Animals are animals, and their violence quotient

is not something that is thoroughly understood or able to be

predicted.

(Our cats are wonderful and have NEVER hurt us--but if they're upset

about something, or into it with each other, we NEVER would grab them

and hold them up to our face for lovies the way we usually do. That

would be foolish! And we'd NEVER allow them to be held by a child or

toddler. Why? Because they might act like the animals they are and

possibly scratch someone, or try to get away! That's what cats do!)

Cats are cats, and dogs are dogs--and many dogs who have never

been 'trained' to attack ANYTHING are perfectly able to maul or bite

someone who has, or has NOT, provoked them!

I understand that you feel quite differently about this--and that's

fine. My post was actually intended to be more of a prayer for the

victims who lost their lives rather than a diatribe... As you'll

notice, I DID finish up with the statement 'How can PEOPLE be so

careless...'; the dogs were just being the animals that they are,

their behavior was perfectly within keeping with the range of

behavior that animals are capable of. I agree that it was their

OWNERS who had so drastically underestimated what could possibly

happen.

Please, don't think that your dogs are just like anyone's 'husband or

wife or partner'--they are NOT human with human characteristics--and

it's a mistake to think so. And don't try and 'cuddle with a police

dog' if you find yourself being chased by one (and they HAVE been

trained to attack in such circumstances!) I'd hate to have anything

happen to you!

Animals can easily act outside of their training or usual behavior--

and no one knows why! Perhaps it's because they only have actions

rather than words with which to communicate...

They are not wrong for having animal attributes--and it doesn't cost

anyone anything to assume their dogs could POSSIBLY act like dogs and

to, thus, take special precautions when allowing them access to non-

family members--even being a bit overly cautious. (I'm sure the lives

of the 3 dead people I mentioned were worth a little extra

fencing/wood/or supervision.) Good luck with yours...

Ava Lee

In GastricBypass-InfoCentral@y..., " Tammy Baltazar " <baltazar@w...>

wrote:

> Being a Rottwieler owner myself, this has a flip side. It's another

> news story where a certain breed of dog will be targeted as " Mean "

or

> " Dangerous " . The media needs to make sure that they place blame

> correctly; on the people and/or circumstances that made these

animals

> killers. Domestic dogs by nature and companions. Just like your

husband

> or wife or partner; they'll be a kind companion for the duration of

> their life, but they'll also defend you when they perceive you're

> threatened. They don't know violence, or jealously, or how to

reason.

> They do what they're trained to do. I sometimes wonder if I was

being

> chased by a police dog, if I turned around, got on one knee and said

> " here boy!!! " if they'd come and cuddle with me.

>

> My dog wouldn't hurt a fly, yet when I went shopping for homeowner's

> insurance awhile back, I was denied from my first choice of company

> because of my dog. He was considered a " high risk " breed. Yet,

more

> people are injured by Jack Terriers each year than they are

by

> Rottwielers.

>

> This was a tragic situation; there's no denying that. My prayers

go out

> to the lovely lady whose life was stripped from her, and also to the

> lady who likely will spend the rest of her life in prison because

she

> made the mistake of thinking she could control an animal that she

> couldn't. She certainly will not have the opportunity to make that

> mistake again.

>

>

**********************************************************************

**

> *****************************

> Tammy B

> baltazar@w...

> Windows Messenger - tbscsoccer@h...

>

> OT-In the news...

>

> Well, I'd like to say that certain prayers of mine were certainly

> answered today. I just heard the news on TV... Without wanting to

> incite a controversy, let me offer my most heartfelt prayers for

the

> dear lady who was killed by the dog in San Francisco, and her

> partner. May God bless everyone involved...

>

> Ava Lee

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

This is one subject where we can certainly agree to disagree and that's

fine by me :-)

When I said threatened, I included that the dogs " perceived " the threat.

Who knows what was going through their little doggie minds. I've never

known a dog to be mean that was treated kindly all his life. I truly

believe that a mean dog comes from training and/or mistreatment/abuse.

Some will disagree; and that's OK.

When/if my dear hubby leaves me to join our Lord, I will likely own lots

of dogs to keep me company.

Where we do agree, is that dogs can be unpredictable (kinda like my

kids) and I would not, under any circumstances, let a strange child

around my dogs unsupervised or if they felt at all uncomfortable. My

dogs have a chain link kennel in the basement where they stay when we're

not home and when we have company.

My dogs are like my partners. Sure they can be unpredictable, but so

can my husband. They can also hurt me without meaning to. So can my

husband and yes, I do believe that they have traits that some would

consider human. But I know some humans that could use the traits of a

dog occasionally too (faithfulness, loyalty, etc.) They are too

precious to me to label them simply as " animals " . They were easy train,

have an understanding of discipline and are ALWAYS quick to forgive;

unlike my children. Now, don't get me wrong, if I had to choose between

them, my kids would end up staying of course, I'm not totally deranged

:-)

Responsible dog ownership is the key. No one will convince me otherwise

on that.

Cats, however, are a different story.... :-)

Like you I never intended to start a controversy and I don't think we

have. We're just a bunch of friends having a peaceful discussion and

expressing our opinions and my heart truly does go out to all involved.

The Lord has His reasons for allowing things like this to happen. I can

only hope that something good comes out of it because it sure seems far

fetched right now. I will be following this story closely, as we all

will.

************************************************************************

*****************************

Tammy B

baltazar@...

Windows Messenger - tbscsoccer@...

OT-In the news...

>

> Well, I'd like to say that certain prayers of mine were certainly

> answered today. I just heard the news on TV... Without wanting to

> incite a controversy, let me offer my most heartfelt prayers for

the

> dear lady who was killed by the dog in San Francisco, and her

> partner. May God bless everyone involved...

>

> Ava Lee

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I've been pretty lucky for the most part and have not been attacked by

anything but a man (and anyone who knows me personally will know that

they are feeling more sorry for the man than me!)

I have owned dogs all my life and I have always been a responsible dog

owner. If these folks had've opened their eyes a little and seen that

their beloved pets were dangerous to others, they may have taken steps

to prevent it. It's irresponsible in the worst sense of the word, since

sadly, in this case, a young lady was killed.

This whole mess sickens my tummy. No one wins here: The victim is dead,

her partner is widowed, the dogs are dead, the owners are going to

prison. I guess the lawyers win, they got the money...

************************************************************************

*****************************

Tammy B

baltazar@...

Windows Messenger - tbscsoccer@...

OT-In the news...

Well, I'd like to say that certain prayers of mine were certainly

answered today. I just heard the news on TV... Without wanting to

incite a controversy, let me offer my most heartfelt prayers for the

dear lady who was killed by the dog in San Francisco, and her

partner. May God bless everyone involved...

Ava Lee

[Guest guest]

I have been reading with interest the emails regarding the recent

trial and verdict of the woman mauled by the dogs. I was especially

interested in the exchange that Ava and Tammy just had.

Just thought I'd throw in my opinion as I guess I fall somewhere in

the middle about the dog issue and have some other thoughts about the

trial.

I have a Rottweiler - , who was my son's dog - and she is a

real sweetheart. She is loving and gentle and very protective. We

have a house full of cats and she has never harmed a hair on them.

She has been raised to be a pet, not a guard dog, but I have no doubt

that she would intervene if someone tried to harm me. She minds me

very well, but Rottweilers need firm limits as I think most big dogs

do. That being said, I always keep her either in the house, on a

short leash or in our back yard with a six foot privacy fence that

has 4x4 posts buried just under the surface of the ground parallel to

the bottom of the fence so that the dogs can't dig out (and then only

when we are at home and for short periods of time to get exercise and

relieve herself). When we take her out, I am amazed how many parent

let their little children, toddlers even, approach her without asking

me if it is okay. I always tell the children to stay away and ask the

parents to keep them back. I don't THINK she would hurt them, but she

is away from her turf in a strange area with strange people, so I

don't want to take ANY chances. I feel that is the only way to be a

responsible dog owner. I see other dogs running loose and it really

makes me angry. It's not being responsible or fair to the neighbors

or to the pets themselves.

As far as the trial goes, aside from the actual mauling, I am

appalled at the behavior of the dog owners and their attorneys. They

have blamed the victim for not seeking refuge in her apartment

quickly enough, accused her partner of telling lies on the witness

stand to bolster her civil lawsuit, and denied that they had

dangerous animals even though there is proof that they were working

on a deal to raise and train guard/attack dogs for members of the

aryan nation. And witnesses say that the woman who owned the dogs not

only did nothing to help the woman who was attacked, she didn't even

call 911. So for me, the issue was not so much about the dogs, but

about the owners and their behaviors.

So there you go, just had to add my 7 cents worth because like the

post office, the rates have increased.

Sheri

In Sunny Florida

[Guest guest]

Oh, I am thinking of training my dogs to get my water during my first

post-op weeks. They can already answer the door, but all they ever say

is " go away!!! " :-)

Wonder what I can get the cats to do? Sitting on my incision I guess is

the most I can expect from them...

************************************************************************

*****************************

Tammy B

baltazar@...

Windows Messenger - tbscsoccer@...

OT-In the news...

>

> Well, I'd like to say that certain prayers of mine were certainly

> answered today. I just heard the news on TV... Without wanting to

> incite a controversy, let me offer my most heartfelt prayers for

the

> dear lady who was killed by the dog in San Francisco, and her

> partner. May God bless everyone involved...

>

> Ava Lee

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

SHERI--I admire all the precautions that you (and Tammy) have taken

with your pets. And I think it's very smart of you to warn kids back

when they thoughtlessly run up to a strange dog--I too wish that ALL

parents would teach their kids to be that careful!

When I say dogs are animals, I don't say it maliciously--it's not a

malicious word--it's just a statement of fact. And I don't make some

breeds the 'bad guys'--I think ALL dogs can bite. It just makes sense

though that a 120 presa canario can do a lot more damage--and more

quickly--than can a 10-15 pound pomeranian, so more care must be

taken.

I LOVE animals, I think they're neat! (Especially CATS! >^..^<)

However, I don't assume I know the reasons for which they do things,

nor would I predict all their behaviors in all circumstances.

I also think that, in the case of the trial, that the owners were

not 'victims' in this situation along with the gal who died. And I

don't mourn the jail time they'll spend for so recklessly and coldly

disregarding someone else's life and safety. For some of the reasons

you stated, they were much more culpable for what eventually happened

and they SHOULD pay a heavy price.

This was a real tragedy--especially for the woman and the dogs. This

was, however, one of the few times anyone has been jailed for a loss

of life, and negligent behavior, in regards to their animals. THAT'S

what I really applaud; someone's death has finally been taken

seriously. That the woman also happened to have an alternative

lifestyle is also especially noteworthy...

Love, Ava Lee

In GastricBypass-InfoCentral@y..., " sherijacobs87 " <sjacobs3@t...>

wrote:

> I have been reading with interest the emails regarding the recent

> trial and verdict of the woman mauled by the dogs. I was especially

> interested in the exchange that Ava and Tammy just had.

>

> Just thought I'd throw in my opinion as I guess I fall somewhere in

> the middle about the dog issue and have some other thoughts about

the

> trial.

>

> I have a Rottweiler - , who was my son's dog - and she is a

> real sweetheart. She is loving and gentle and very protective. We

> have a house full of cats and she has never harmed a hair on them.

> She has been raised to be a pet, not a guard dog, but I have no

doubt

> that she would intervene if someone tried to harm me. She minds me

> very well, but Rottweilers need firm limits as I think most big

dogs

> do. That being said, I always keep her either in the house, on a

> short leash or in our back yard with a six foot privacy fence that

> has 4x4 posts buried just under the surface of the ground parallel

to

> the bottom of the fence so that the dogs can't dig out (and then

only

> when we are at home and for short periods of time to get exercise

and

> relieve herself). When we take her out, I am amazed how many parent

> let their little children, toddlers even, approach her without

asking

> me if it is okay. I always tell the children to stay away and ask

the

> parents to keep them back. I don't THINK she would hurt them, but

she

> is away from her turf in a strange area with strange people, so I

> don't want to take ANY chances. I feel that is the only way to be a

> responsible dog owner. I see other dogs running loose and it really

> makes me angry. It's not being responsible or fair to the neighbors

> or to the pets themselves.

>

> As far as the trial goes, aside from the actual mauling, I am

> appalled at the behavior of the dog owners and their attorneys.

They

> have blamed the victim for not seeking refuge in her apartment

> quickly enough, accused her partner of telling lies on the witness

> stand to bolster her civil lawsuit, and denied that they had

> dangerous animals even though there is proof that they were working

> on a deal to raise and train guard/attack dogs for members of the

> aryan nation. And witnesses say that the woman who owned the dogs

not

> only did nothing to help the woman who was attacked, she didn't

even

> call 911. So for me, the issue was not so much about the dogs, but

> about the owners and their behaviors.

>

> So there you go, just had to add my 7 cents worth because like the

> post office, the rates have increased.

>

> Sheri

> In Sunny Florida

[Guest guest]

They will purr, between making demands for more food.

Thanks,

http://www.vitalady.com

For info on PayPal, click this link:

https://secure.paypal.com/affil/pal=vitalady%40bigfoot.com

OT-In the news...

>

> Well, I'd like to say that certain prayers of mine were certainly

> answered today. I just heard the news on TV... Without wanting to

> incite a controversy, let me offer my most heartfelt prayers for

the

> dear lady who was killed by the dog in San Francisco, and her

> partner. May God bless everyone involved...

>

> Ava Lee

>

>

>