How to get my Aspie bf to understand personal boundries

[Guest guest]

My boyfriend (who has aspergers) doesn't seem to understand how much it stresses

me out when he wont back off from a discussion or argument. I can only be

patient for so long and it seems no matter what direction I go in to try to

avoid things coming to an ugly head, it ends up there anyway. For example all

day today he has been anxious and moody and I've tried everything from giving

him his space, pretending like nothing is wrong, to asking him what is wrong, to

comforting him and suggesting fun relaxing things to do together and nothing

seems to help he just keeps heading in the same miserable direction he always

does. We ended up arguing about some things and it got to a point where I just

couldn't take it anymore because it seemed like there would never be an end

because it was just one thing after another and I told him I needed this to stop

or I was going to scream and it went on for another half hour like that between

how he didn't do anything wrong by wanting to finish the conversation, to him

being upset for not getting to finish everything he wanted to say, and him being

upset with himself for " screwing everything up " (his words). Eventually he

screamed right in my face with a very scary expression and I had to ask him to

leave me alone for a while so he went outside. I just can't believe it has to

come to this in order for him to back off and give me my space, even though just

earlier today I was not only willing to give him his space, but was quite aware

that he needed it. I really don't know what I am doing wrong. Nothing ever

seems to work. I am so tired.

[Guest guest]

I totally understand!!! I'm right there with you!!!???!!!! I do not have a clue

how to help you but know you're not alone. I really think we have to accept them

and understand them bc no matter how hard we try they do not understand what we

are saying. Sometimes I often wonder if its just a man and women thing bc I have

friends that are dating men without AS and they seem to have the same issues.

All I do is pray for direction and the ability to see how he views things bc I

am so adaptable to him if I could just understand. I watched Temple Grandin a

movie that was suggested and it helped a bit but its still so hard.. Keep your

chin up!!

Sent via BlackBerry by AT & T

How to get my Aspie bf to understand personal

boundries

My boyfriend (who has aspergers) doesn't seem to understand how much it stresses

me out when he wont back off from a discussion or argument. I can only be

patient for so long and it seems no matter what direction I go in to try to

avoid things coming to an ugly head, it ends up there anyway. For example all

day today he has been anxious and moody and I've tried everything from giving

him his space, pretending like nothing is wrong, to asking him what is wrong, to

comforting him and suggesting fun relaxing things to do together and nothing

seems to help he just keeps heading in the same miserable direction he always

does. We ended up arguing about some things and it got to a point where I just

couldn't take it anymore because it seemed like there would never be an end

because it was just one thing after another and I told him I needed this to stop

or I was going to scream and it went on for another half hour like that between

how he didn't do anything wrong by wanting to finish the conversation, to him

being upset for not getting to finish everything he wanted to say, and him being

upset with himself for " screwing everything up " (his words). Eventually he

screamed right in my face with a very scary expression and I had to ask him to

leave me alone for a while so he went outside. I just can't believe it has to

come to this in order for him to back off and give me my space, even though just

earlier today I was not only willing to give him his space, but was quite aware

that he needed it. I really don't know what I am doing wrong. Nothing ever

seems to work. I am so tired.

[Guest guest]

Hi Lucika,

What you are describing could well be one of the " elephants under the carpet "

about AS in some people. Most AS do experience a form of " meltdown " when they

become overwhelmed. The triggers are many .. but not always understood by NT, or

even AS themselves. It could be an obvious external stressor such as work, or

conflict with a family member.

But it could be a reaction to something that might not normally bother anyone

else, it's hidden. It could be a sensory issue, maybe they spent too long in a

large crowded shopping center with flickering florescent lights and bad

acoustics. Many AS, myself included, feel the cumulative effects of that. I can

feel disoriented if I'm in that environment too long. I have long been aware of

that, so I plan my time accordingly. But some may not be aware at all, and they

may be out of sorts for hours after that, and then, finally melt down.

This is hard on others who have no idea at all where that came from, and the AS

might not, either. It might be the equivalent of a toddler who, after having a

great time at the birthday party, is out of sorts soon after getting home,

culminating in a royal screaming tantrum by dinner time. The parents will

realize the toddler probably had too much stimulation .. " too much fun " .. and

probably too much sugar too .. and simply put the screaming child to bed early.

Not easy to do that with older children or adults though!

For many AS adults, the " meltdown " takes the form of shutting down, withdrawing,

and NOT engaging anyone, which can be quite hard on family members nonetheless

as it is natural to worry that it is a response to something *they* did wrong.

But then there is " raging " and it seems to build up and feed upon itself.

Unfortunately sometimes the person in the middle of an escalation cycle may be

blaming others as well, having really no idea *why* they feel so out of sorts,

they're just flaring out. In the earlier days of ASPIRES when discussions on AS

often surrounded parenting issues too, this was talked about more, children do

it more, and things like " anxiety cycles " and " triggers " etc. were discussed.

When someone is in the midst of a meltdown but continuing to try to engage, it

is best not to continue engaging them, even though they will try every means to

try to pull you back in, in their panic.

The person having the meltdown is frightened of their emotions, does not want to

be alone, and the other person is " taking on " a lot of that for them, throughout

the episode. Unfortunately that is a reinforcing behavior if they are successful

in continuing to engage you in that manner. By telling him to leave for awhile,

that extinguished the behavior because it no longer yielded the desired result.

Your BF needs to start taking some responsibility for his behavior. He needs to

get therapy to deal with that. You can not, and should not, have to live like

that.

Helen, 56, self dx'd AS, dx'd ADD

[Guest guest]

Firstly, this sounds like an Aspie who has been fighting with his thoughts and

cant express them. And you, being the NT, is asking him how he is and trying to

resolve the issue.

 

I have an inkling of how to handle Ian now, but your scenario was a common one

for me in the early days. Ian would not communicate, and hated (still does) hate

long  conversations unless he is on his hobby horse for his favourite subjects.

Otherwise, I might as well have been talking Swahili, for all that he responded.

I am going to answer your post with interjections of my own, in italics:

 

My boyfriend (who has aspergers) doesn't seem to understand how much it stresses

me out when he wont back off from a discussion or argument.

You are living with Mr Spock. He has his parameters and mindset, and he believes

he is right. No amount of arguing in the normal sense will work. A back and

forth debate doesnt work with your average AS. Use calm voice, clipped sentences

and make one or two statements about your viewpoint. 'My view is that .... and I

believe that....'. And an open question 'What do you mean'.   Ian used to ask

me that all the time. He explained that he often couldnt 'hear' me as he tuned

out a lot of the voice pitch when I talked loudly or screamed in anger. And that

if I spoke for too long, he couldnt follow the argument at all. Short sentences,

in a low tone, and to the point. Try it. Even if you really want to snap his

head off.

 I can only be patient for so long and it seems no matter what direction I go

in to try to avoid things coming to an ugly head, it ends up there anyway.

He may have a propensity to be self introspective, and its part of the make up

that he will brood or over analyse. If you can, you step away from the boiling

point, and almost, if you like, give up on the making of your point or winning a

score. You will only feel angry and thwarted, perhaps, and its better for you to

know that you are right, and calm with it, than pursue what will be a fruitless

argument. There will be a time when he is calmer and you can judge when to say,

'I would appreciate it if when...' so you set up a scenario for him in the

future. AS people, it seems, work well with pre-planned scenarios, and this

makes for a set piece for them when the next such occasion arises.

For example all day today he has been anxious and moody and I've tried

everything from giving him his space, pretending like nothing is wrong, to

asking him what is wrong, to comforting him and suggesting fun relaxing things

to do together and nothing seems to help he just keeps heading in the same

miserable direction he always does.

Believe it or not, sometimes the comforting get their goat more than just

leaving them alone. Ian hates to be touched when he is in his 'introspective'

phase, and he wants to be alone with his thoughts. They actually like being

alone, sometimes. That 'mother's in the kitchen' thing. They want to know that

their loved one/carer is nearby, but dont want them in their faces at the

moment. Hard, and believe me, its easier for all if you dont probe them or ask

whats wrong. I have found that is the red rag to the proverbial bull. They dont

often know themselves 'what is wrong'. They just know that they are immersed in

that down mindset, and perhaps he is struggling with his AS and like my Ian,

cant understand a lot of what the NT world around him is saying and doing. Ian

says that he often hears white noise when lots of speaking is going on, he cant

concentrate on tirades and its a bit of an insult when he tells me that on some

days, my voice 'grates' and it

'makes no sense!'.  Dont speak in mixed messages or get out of control - YOU

can contain this by being firm, know what you want and just say your piece but

in short, concise, words. Or wait until he is more approachable. Honestly, that

does work. You may have to learn to dampen down your own instinct to react, but

you will be less stressed if you do so.

We ended up arguing about some things and it got to a point where I just

couldn't take it anymore because it seemed like there would never be an end

because it was just one thing after another and I told him I needed this to stop

or I was going to scream

This is where you should just go out somewhere for a while. Just say, I'll leave

you alone. Whatever the argument is about, he isnt capable of dealing with it.

He has his mindset. He has his own miseries, perhaps his own insecurities, and

he cant show them to you. He will be trying to negotiate NT world, and not

succeeding, and AS hate not to succeed. He wont change his mind just like that.

It has taken me years to get Ian to see my point of view on stuff like religion

and politics, but we still differ. Because of Ian's Sensory Processing Disorder,

he cant take out the rubbish, neither can he cook a meal, or eat certain foods.

He cant bear noisy crowds, so over the years I have reduced the amount of joint

social stuff that he does with me. He is more spontaneous now, but for years he

wouldnt hug me, or respond to entreaties for love. He didnt see how being

effusive with affection counted, as he said he loved me and that's what

mattered. And to be honest,

falsely declaring love  in tacit phrases which he had rehearsed, didnt work

either.

and it went on for another half hour like that between how he didn't do anything

wrong by wanting to finish the conversation, to him being upset for not getting

to finish everything he wanted to say, and him being upset with himself for

" screwing everything up " (his words).

In his mind, he knows what he expects from his scenarios, and what 'should'

happen when he uses his phrases, and what his expected response from you should

be. He wont be able to go beyond this, as its not what he had lined up to say.

And protracted, loud shouting from the NT partner, as would work with another

NT, wont work. He will have tuned out. Ian says that he cant, physically, work

out my approach and I need to explain myself better to him. It hard to get Ian

to let me finish my sentences (because he feels I have already said enough) and

he often used to say things like 'are you STILL talking about this?'. After we

backed off from each other, let the dust settle, it was clear that he didnt

'hear' me.  Screwing everything up? In other words, not getting him... and he

certainly isnt getting you.

What I do now, is to not harp on or repeat past hurts, or keep going over old

ground because Ian hasnt got my message or understood my point of view. He

either never will, because thats the way it is, or he does get my side of an

issue, but only after I have calmly and pointedly put it in words that are short

and concise. (not like this post!  But its important to me that I get to speak

to you in full, so that it might help).  I ask Ian, what is your view? I

listen. I say to him, now I will tell you mine. In short words, and carefully

thought out. And dont feel bullied or dismissed. He may make you feel this way,

as he may be one of those who sound highhanded when they speak. The AS little

professor way. He doesnt mean this, its a part of his approach to life.

Eventually he screamed right in my face with a very scary expression and I had

to ask him to leave me alone for a while so he went outside.

This sounds like he was at the end of his AS tether. As he isnt equipped to deal

with NT emotions, and he is busy thinking, analysing, working out what the heck

to say and do (and having no script to help him) he has melted down. Dont take

these personally, he really is asking for you to help him by not being

persistent or needy. I know that sounds harsh, and its not true, either. But he

wont see it that way. He will be feeling pushed into a corner, because he feels

helpless. Cant take the yelling. Oddly, when Ian meltdown, he doesnt know what

its like for others around him, he is shut off and going through an emotional

outpouring that makes him feel better afterwards. He is blanked out. However,

when I mimicked a meltdown to him, he was terrified; he said it was scary. He

didnt know how he sounded or looked. It was upsetting for him to think that was

how he came across. I have learned to accept that his Jekyll and Hyde is not

meant as it would be in

other, NT style violent situations. He is chemically dealing with his

brainstorm and once it is over, he is distraught, exhausted and sad. So I

protect myself and Ian during meltdowns as we acknowledge that they exist and

that they happen when he is stressed. So we negate the stress, but try not to

get into arguments or angry situations. They do happen, of course, but its me

who walks away, goes into the garden or to see the flowers in the park. Then I

come back, hug Ian and we start over.

I just can't believe it has to come to this in order for him to back off and

give me my space, even though just earlier today I was not only willing to give

him his space, but was quite aware that he needed it.

He does need his space, a space to meltdown, a space to think - this doesnt have

to be a physical space, but a mental one, too. And its going to be hard, because

when you need to bounce into the room, like Tigger, he will not respond and ask

you not to touch. He's in the AS zone. So you will have to bide your time. Then

take advantage of his warmth when HE is ready to give it. Use your friends and

other social life to fill the gaps. But, say to him, you are giving him this

space because it suits you to do so, however he will need to know, most

strongly, that YOU need him to do things for YOU. So lay down some rules for

him, in terms of what you need. But when its calm and loving, not when there is

shouting. Ask him to respect your views, and say hello when you come in the

room, to tell you when he cant manage to be loving because his mind is tied up

in AS analysis. Ask him to do things for you, and thank him. Dont ask him to do

things he cant do, even if

its the usual 'man' stuff.

I really don't know what I am doing wrong. Nothing ever seems to work. I am so

tired.

Right now - dont even think that you are doing wrong. You are acting as you

would, or have done, with previous partners or others around you. When something

is awry, you want to sort it out. However, you cant do this with an AS partner.

They have set scenarios, fears, issues, uncommunicative ways that are because

they dont 'read' the same way as NT's do. Unpick everything you have ever

learned about social life and love life. Work from the premise that this is a

very special person but he needs careful handling, like bone china. He wont

respond to your gut reactions to have a go at him for being unresponsive, maybe

lazy, maybe selfish. He wont know that. You will have to back off, but be firm

at the same time. I often say to Ian, this is what I am doing today. Then

brooking no moaning or anger about it. I ask him 'what are you doing today'.

That kind of 'listings' helps us move about each other and know what to expect

from each other. Needs dont come

into it, although I know what I can offer his needs, and do it without asking,

I ALWAYS have to ask him to give me what I need. He never knows instinctively,

he learns by practise.

Finally, remember he means no harm. Its his programming and his experience that

makes him see things differently. You have to explain (not tell) and you have to

ask (not demand). If all else fails, write him an email, I still do this when

Ian cant bear the sound of a voice or when he cant process a string of words.

Daft, but it works. I dont demand in my email, I just state the facts.

I hope this hasnt put you off, I have the most intense, sincere (they are always

sincere, falsehood doesnt come into their matrix) and dedicated person, who wont

go to social events, tells me I look horrible, tells me to get out of the way (a

computer needs him) or that my food is sh*t. Enjoy the good bits, and work your

way around the bewildering and frightening bits. And stick up for yourself.

Judy B