Re: MediCal/Medicaid

June 28, 2006

Yowza! Talk about a bunch of useful information!! THANKS.

Obviously will be adding this post to the Links Section - soon people

will be able to go to the links section and find just about

everything they need to make everything as easy as pie...

Unfortunately, since my mom is a widow, she won't be eligible for MA

Health until her money is down to $2000. Which means out of pocket

for the nursing home until then. And we can't transfer anything to a

trust or anything b/c then the kids will become liable to pay for the

nursing home. This is in MA. This is for someone single/widowed. We

did get an Elder Law Attorney and he helped to hopefully salvage some

of the assets by turning my mother's condo into one that is 1/2 in

her name and 1/2 in the kids name.

BTW speaking of which... we FINALLY sold the condo (that's the good

news) - the bad news is it was a pain in the neck to deal with

closing, etc. b/c my brother's name was apart of it and he is out of

country - we still haven't been able to cash the check b/c his name

is on it and they forgot to write 'or' on the check... Another never

ending drama in my situation...

I'm telling you - my sister and I can write a book about what NOT to

do for your eldered loved one... Everything so far as been learned

the hard way...

June 28, 2006

Oh , how I know about learning the hard way. I

know that Medicaid for the single person is much

different in the assets. It is $2,000.00 in assets

here too and the house is non exempt. But if you are

married the asset situation is different as you can

see by my e-mail.

It was horrible, because Jim's daughter's name was on

this house too, because he wanted the house to go to

his kids and thought if her name was on it after his

death everything would be taken care of. Well, she

would have been stuck with everything, so the house

went into a Trust to them and a " Quit Claim Deed " at

the County Records Office was made to take his

daughter's name off of the house as a co owner and put

it into the Trust.

There are so many details, it's overwhelming. I am

glad that I am over with all the MediCal stuff. That

and Jim together were building up so much tension I

was walking around like a stiff. I looked like a board

from all the tension. My shoulders were drawn up to my

neck practically from all the tension in them. Since

Jim went into the nh, I have felt the tension melt

away and I can finally move my neck again. LOL.

What we all go through! It is so great of you to

compile all this information, so that others aren't in

the dark of where to begin or where to go. It's a

nightmare just dealing with LBD alone, let alone all

the legal stuff you need to find out.

Geeeez, give us a break! And you are, it's a

wonderful service that you are doing for everyone.

It is good that someone is computer savvy around here.

I still think we ought to all piece together our

experiences in everything and compile a book. There

are so many people that don't know where to turn or

what to do. And the money off the book sales could be

donated to the LBDA.

--- wrote:

> Yowza! Talk about a bunch of useful information!!

> THANKS.

> Obviously will be adding this post to the Links

> Section - soon people

> will be able to go to the links section and find

> just about

> everything they need to make everything as easy as

> pie...

>

> Unfortunately, since my mom is a widow, she won't be

> eligible for MA

> Health until her money is down to $2000. Which means

> out of pocket

> for the nursing home until then. And we can't

> transfer anything to a

> trust or anything b/c then the kids will become

> liable to pay for the

> nursing home. This is in MA. This is for someone

> single/widowed. We

> did get an Elder Law Attorney and he helped to

> hopefully salvage some

> of the assets by turning my mother's condo into one

> that is 1/2 in

> her name and 1/2 in the kids name.

>

> BTW speaking of which... we FINALLY sold the condo

> (that's the good

> news) - the bad news is it was a pain in the neck to

> deal with

> closing, etc. b/c my brother's name was apart of it

> and he is out of

> country - we still haven't been able to cash the

> check b/c his name

> is on it and they forgot to write 'or' on the

> check... Another never

> ending drama in my situation...

>

> I'm telling you - my sister and I can write a book

> about what NOT to

> do for your eldered loved one... Everything so far

> as been learned

> the hard way...

>

June 28, 2006

Jan,

THAT IS only for spouses. Because I was the daughter, it didn't work the same.

Mom had to spend down to the 3,000. before she could apply for Medicaid. And

because her house was in WI and she was now a MI resident and living with me,

her house wouldn't have been exempt. Her house had to be in MI to be exempt.

DO get a lawyer and ask and ask. I didn't ask the lawyers I talked to about

what I could do with her money for the 3 years she lived with me. When I

finally went to try and get her on Medicaid, the lawyer asked if I was taking

out of her money, the average cost of a nh in MI. for the whole three years she

was with me! It was to late then.. You can be paid out of their money while

they are with you, I guess. That would be something you would need to ask an

attorney.

So much you find out later. I did get her burial money paid up front or I would

have had to pay for that too. It became exempt because it was done previously.

DO THIS STUFF early. It use to be 3 years they can look back and now it is 5

years. (It was in a trust so they couldn't get it anyway.)

And don't forget that some states have " recovery laws. " that means if there is

,money in the estate after someone dies, they can come after you if they were on

Medicaid or in a nh. MI doesn't have that law yet, but they are working on it.

Donna R

Caregave for Mom (after I brought her from WI to MI) for 3 years and 4th year in

a nh.

She was almost 89 when she died in '02

No dx other than mine.

MediCal/Medicaid

Hi All,

I would like to add some information that I have found

out through all my experiences of trying to get Jim

into a nursing home.

I had fears that I would have to spend down to the

bare minimum, which I have always heard was $3,000.00

in Assets for a married couple and $2,000.00 if a

single person in( " non exempt " property.) I don't know

much more than that for the single person, but I

contacted an Elder Care Attorney that specializes in

MediCal. This is very important to do. There are also

Pro Bono (Free Attorneys) that are Elder Care

Attorneys that can give you information and advise you

on how to go about MediCal/Medicaid. In California it

is MediCal, but it is the same as Medicaid in other

states, some of the rules may be different in other

states, so it is important to contact an Elder Care

Attorney. I found my Elder Care Attorney by

contacting the Alzheimer's Support group in my area

and they recommended him. Also the Parkinsons support

group can recommend attorneys. You can find Pro Bono

Elder Care Attorneys by contacting the Senior

Community Center in your area, they usually have

visiting Pro Bono Attorneys monthly that you can

schedule with Or call the Dept of Aging and they will

help you too.

In the beginning, not knowing what I was doing I first

went to my MediCal office and a MediCal Program

Assistant gave me a Resource Directory on Senior

Services in my community, which also listed many Pro

Bono Attorneys and where to find them. It also listed

where I could find the Alzheimers Support group and

Parkinsons Support group in my area. It had a wealth

of information on just about anything you wanted to

know for seniors

and where to contact them. It is a guide to every

senior thing available from A-Z. To name a few:

Attorneys, Alzheimers Association, Contact Care Help

Line, Caregiver Support, Death and Dying &

Bereavement, Emergency and Safety, Services for

Persons with Disabilities (Which I found the Day

Program in our area) It kept my husband stimulated and

more alert I believe. I chose to send him only 2 days

a week, because he did not have the stamina to go a

full week. They had a bus service to pick him up at

the door at home, but he was too paranoid to take it,

so I drove him. They also served meals. At first he

didn't want to attend, but I gradually would get him

there and then he loved it. He was in the dementia

unit. The people there understand that you can not get

them there everyday, that there are circumstances

where dementia throws a hook at times.

Anyway, back to the Resourse list: Help to Stay at

Home, Hospice, Legal Services, Meals on Wheels, Public

Protection, Senior Centers and Programs, Recreation

and Exercise, Transportation, Veterans Services and

the list goes on. This Directory was my Bible to

Senior Care and Help.

Back to MediCal and my Elder Care Attorney.

I still needed my assets as I am not of retirement

age, so as I thought I had to spend down to $3,000.00

was not necessarily true. I thought I would have to

divorce my husband in order for him to go into a nh,

so I could save my assets. This $3,000.00 in assets is

true if you don't have a little nest egg set asside

and you apply while your spouse is at home for

MediCal/Medicaid, but if you can afford to put your

spouse in a nh and pay for the first month or a few

months and then apply for MediCal/Medicaid right away

while they are already in the nh, you can have up to

$95,100.00 in assets. My attorney said the rule

changed again this year and you can have $111,000.00

in assets and the spouse will qualify for

MediCal/Medicaid. Plus $2,000.00 for the institutional

spouse. (Some may keep more) This is in California

that I know for sure, it may be different in other

states. I made an appointment with a Social Worker at

MediCal and brought in all of our assets, even what I

make in my part time job and Jim qualified for

MediCal. I can not make anymore than I make in my part

time job, as I thought maybe I could do some

substitute jobs, but I can not make anymore than I

showed for assets or MediCal will start to subtract my

extra income. MediCal will pay me $2,400.00 monthly

for my allowance to live on. It was $2,378, but as of

this year it has gone to $2,400.00. They will pay me

this monthly until Jim's death.

The things that are exempt as assets for MediCal are :

* Principal Residence

(And on the basis of intent to return home) They state

on the basis to return home, but it is not that your

spouse has to return home, it is just left open for

the choice to be there.

* 1 Automobile

* Retirement funds of " Community Spouse " (Spouse at

Home)

*Retirement funds of " Institutionalized Spouse " (If

periodic payments of principal and interest are begun)

*Annuities (If immediate, periodic and even payments

of principal and interest are begun and the terms meet

Federal/State guidelines) Annuities must be

annuitized.

*Term Life Insurance

*Life Insurance (with cash value below $1,500

*Burial Plot or Crypt

*Prepaid Burial Plan (with cash value below $1,500 or

unlimited if irrevocable)

To protect your assets put them into annuities, which

are stocks. It is things like Life Insurance and

Retirement Funds

Start looking at nh way in advance, so you have an

idea of what you would like for your Loved One. Some

nh will take applications for when a room is available

and others don't have applications.

You must look at nh that have doctors visiting from

your spouses health care provider. You can get a list

of those nh from the social worker at your spouses

provider or from the business office of that provider.

If you don't have a provider, I guess all nh are

available to you.

Make a list of dos and don'ts that you will look for

at the nh. You can find a good list of things to help

you look for on " A Place For Mom " website and then add

your own things that you want to look for to it. I

think " A Place For Mom " is in the LBDgroup Links

Section. It may be the Files Section. I can't remember

which one.

Just remember, if you are a spouse and you feel it is

time for your Loved One to go into a nh. Do not apply

while the spouse is at home. Your assets can only be

at $3,000.00, but if you pay for a month or two for

your spouse in a nh. Your assets can be at $111,000.00

In California anyway, but speak to an Elder Care

Attorney to guide you in this. Do not rely on a Social

Worker from MediCal/Medicaid to guide you on this,

they do not know all the details of what you can do.

You Must get an Elder Care Attorney. Pro Bono or

other.

Hope this is helpful for anyone thinking about this.

Jan Colello

P.S. Just an added tip. I found this in my Bible to

Senior Help and Care (Senior Services Resource

Directory) Issued by MediCal

Most Senior Community Centers have retired contractor

handymen that will do fix it jobs around the house. I

contacted our Senior Center and for $20.00 an hour he

will fix a list of things. I always keep a list of

things that break down or need fixing, until I get

about 10 things to fix on the list and it takes him a

little less than an hour to fix them. The minimum pay

is still $20.00 even if it's under an hour. He has

fixed drippy pipes, hinges that have metal fatigue,

doors and screens that need new tracks to slide on.

Patched up holes in walls and painted them to match

the rest of the wall and many other things that I have

needed. I have never paid over $20.00.

There is also a list of contractors in this resource

directory that will install handicap bars and other

handicap type things in the house for a senior

discount price.

__________________________________________________

June 28, 2006

A couple of comments to your good information - Donna,

I believe you can include the burial/funeral expenses

in part of the spenddown. If we had had enough assets

that we would have had to do that, we could have used

the funera/burial prepaid plans as part of the

spenddown. Also, I'm not sure the house would be

exempt no matter where it was if your mother was a

single person, as I understand the house would have

had to be sold or used as part of the spenddown. Jan,

I'm curious about the $2378 you write that MediCal is

paying you. How does that work? In Kansas, we are

allowed only $1607 for both our incomes, and anything

over that has to be paid by us out of our pocket. You

can deduct $50 for personal expenses; rent or house

payments (which I can't do because my daughter paid

off my house - a mistake on the advice of the

attorney, because I could be using that house payment

in our income reduction; the amount of taxes and

insurance on the house over $220, which in our case is

only $80, so it's not that much help. I would have

been better off to just borrow the money from my

daughter and paid her loan payments, and then I

wouldn't have to be paying the NH $723 out of my

pocket. THis is in addition to what Medicaid is

paying, plus now his NH insurance of $100 per day.

So, I'm curious as to why MediCal is paying you, or is

that the amount they allow you to have? They also

cannot take your house and one car here in Kansas. I

have also advised anyone I talked with to get their

spouse off of IRAs, 401ks, life insurance policies and

whatever as beneficiaries, because if the well spouse

would happen to die first, the state can get

everything that the spouse receives due to being a

beneficiary. This happened with my husband's sister,

who had Alzheimer's, and her husband died before she

did, much to everyone's surprise. It's terrible to be

doing things like this, but in the case of people

(like most of us) who are neither very poor or very

wealthy, we lose everything we have worked all our

lives for. Also, I haven't been able discern why it is

helpful to have a divorce, because if you do, the

assets are divided equally, and that would leave the

well spouse with only half the amount of assets they

could keep as long as they were under the $90,000 (in

Kansas), and then the well spouse would only have

their income to live on after the other went to the

NH. So, I've wondered what would be the advantage in

doing that.

--- Donna Mido wrote:

> Jan,

>

> THAT IS only for spouses. Because I was the

> daughter, it didn't work the same. Mom had to spend

> down to the 3,000. before she could apply for

> Medicaid. And because her house was in WI and she

> was now a MI resident and living with me, her house

> wouldn't have been exempt. Her house had to be in

> MI to be exempt.

>

> DO get a lawyer and ask and ask. I didn't ask the

> lawyers I talked to about what I could do with her

> money for the 3 years she lived with me. When I

> finally went to try and get her on Medicaid, the

> lawyer asked if I was taking out of her money, the

> average cost of a nh in MI. for the whole three

> years she was with me! It was to late then.. You

> can be paid out of their money while they are with

> you, I guess. That would be something you would

> need to ask an attorney.

>

> So much you find out later. I did get her burial

> money paid up front or I would have had to pay for

> that too. It became exempt because it was done

> previously. DO THIS STUFF early. It use to be 3

> years they can look back and now it is 5 years. (It

> was in a trust so they couldn't get it anyway.)

>

> And don't forget that some states have " recovery

> laws. " that means if there is ,money in the estate

> after someone dies, they can come after you if they

> were on Medicaid or in a nh. MI doesn't have that

> law yet, but they are working on it.

>

> Donna R

>

> Caregave for Mom (after I brought her from WI to MI)

> for 3 years and 4th year in a nh.

>

> She was almost 89 when she died in '02

>

> No dx other than mine.

>

> MediCal/Medicaid

>

> Hi All,

> I would like to add some information that I have

> found

> out through all my experiences of trying to get Jim

> into a nursing home.

> I had fears that I would have to spend down to the

> bare minimum, which I have always heard was

> $3,000.00

> in Assets for a married couple and $2,000.00 if a

> single person in( " non exempt " property.) I don't

> know

> much more than that for the single person, but I

> contacted an Elder Care Attorney that specializes in

> MediCal. This is very important to do. There are

> also

> Pro Bono (Free Attorneys) that are Elder Care

> Attorneys that can give you information and advise

> you

> on how to go about MediCal/Medicaid. In California

> it

> is MediCal, but it is the same as Medicaid in other

> states, some of the rules may be different in other

> states, so it is important to contact an Elder Care

> Attorney. I found my Elder Care Attorney by

> contacting the Alzheimer's Support group in my area

> and they recommended him. Also the Parkinsons

> support

> group can recommend attorneys. You can find Pro Bono

> Elder Care Attorneys by contacting the Senior

> Community Center in your area, they usually have

> visiting Pro Bono Attorneys monthly that you can

> schedule with Or call the Dept of Aging and they

> will

> help you too.

> In the beginning, not knowing what I was doing I

> first

> went to my MediCal office and a MediCal Program

> Assistant gave me a Resource Directory on Senior

> Services in my community, which also listed many Pro

> Bono Attorneys and where to find them. It also

> listed

> where I could find the Alzheimers Support group and

> Parkinsons Support group in my area. It had a wealth

> of information on just about anything you wanted to

> know for seniors

> and where to contact them. It is a guide to every

> senior thing available from A-Z. To name a few:

> Attorneys, Alzheimers Association, Contact Care Help

> Line, Caregiver Support, Death and Dying &

> Bereavement, Emergency and Safety, Services for

> Persons with Disabilities (Which I found the Day

> Program in our area) It kept my husband stimulated

> and

> more alert I believe. I chose to send him only 2

> days

> a week, because he did not have the stamina to go a

> full week. They had a bus service to pick him up at

> the door at home, but he was too paranoid to take

> it,

> so I drove him. They also served meals. At first he

> didn't want to attend, but I gradually would get him

> there and then he loved it. He was in the dementia

> unit. The people there understand that you can not

> get

> them there everyday, that there are circumstances

> where dementia throws a hook at times.

> Anyway, back to the Resourse list: Help to Stay at

> Home, Hospice, Legal Services, Meals on Wheels,

> Public

> Protection, Senior Centers and Programs, Recreation

> and Exercise, Transportation, Veterans Services and

> the list goes on. This Directory was my Bible to

> Senior Care and Help.

> Back to MediCal and my Elder Care Attorney.

> I still needed my assets as I am not of retirement

> age, so as I thought I had to spend down to

> $3,000.00

> was not necessarily true. I thought I would have to

> divorce my husband in order for him to go into a nh,

> so I could save my assets. This $3,000.00 in assets

> is

> true if you don't have a little nest egg set asside

> and you apply while your spouse is at home for

> MediCal/Medicaid, but if you can afford to put your

> spouse in a nh and pay for the first month or a few

> months and then apply for MediCal/Medicaid right

> away

> while they are already in the nh, you can have up to

> $95,100.00 in assets. My attorney said the rule

> changed again this year and you can have $111,000.00

> in assets and the spouse will qualify for

> MediCal/Medicaid. Plus $2,000.00 for the

> institutional

> spouse. (Some may keep more) This is in California

> that I know for sure, it may be different in other

> states. I made an appointment with a Social Worker

> at

> MediCal and brought in all of our assets, even what

> I

> make in my part time job and Jim qualified for

> MediCal. I can not make anymore than I make in my

> part

> time job, as I thought maybe I could do some

> substitute jobs, but I can not make anymore than I

> showed for assets or MediCal will start to subtract

> my

> extra income. MediCal will pay me $2,400.00 monthly

> for my allowance to live on. It was $2,378, but as

> of

> this year it has gone to $2,400.00. They will pay me

> this monthly until Jim's death.

> The things that are exempt as assets for MediCal are

> :

>

> * Principal Residence

> (And on the basis of intent to return home) They

> state

> on the basis to return home, but it is not that your

> spouse has to return home, it is just left open for

> the choice to be there.

>

> * 1 Automobile

>

> * Retirement funds of " Community Spouse " (Spouse at

> Home)

>

> *Retirement funds of " Institutionalized Spouse " (If

> periodic payments of principal and interest are

> begun)

>

> *Annuities (If immediate, periodic and even payments

> of principal and interest are begun and the terms

> meet

> Federal/State guidelines) Annuities must be

> annuitized.

>

> *Term Life Insurance

>

> *Life Insurance (with cash value below $1,500

>

> *Burial Plot or Crypt

>

> *Prepaid Burial Plan (with cash value below $1,500

> or

> unlimited if irrevocable)

>

> To protect your assets put them into annuities,

> which

> are stocks. It is things like Life Insurance and

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

June 28, 2006

June,

I think that is why it is so important to see what the legal issues are in the

state you live in, as they are all different. I was told she could have a house

and car that would be exempt here in MI. I imagine that is where they would

have gone to " recover " if there was a recovery law here. I found a lawyer that

cost me $5000. who worked both in MI and WI and he got me out of most any

trouble I was in and said whoever I was working with didn't know what he was

doing. (For Medicaid.)

Yes, you are right about the spend down, and the Medicaid wanted to know when I

took out the burial expenses. It had been done long before we looked at

Medicaid.

And it broke me, and her and she only spent the last year in a nh. I was left

with nothing. They took most of the rent off her house and her SS check which

was close to $1500 for the two. I never did find out what the cost of the nh

was. The nh just sent me my part of the bill and I never knew what Medicaid

paid. I guess I would have found that out when she died if I had owed anything.

I had just paid the $1500. in Oct when she died and she had only been in the nh

for 10 days that month. I never did see a bill or get a refund.

So, do ask questions. I saw several lawyers while I had Mom with me for 3 years

and most of them didn't tell me anything. I didn't ask the right questions. And

I had the complication of two states. I assumed she was still a resident of WI,

as that is where her home was. Because she was here with me for 3 years, she

was now a resident of MI.

Donna R

Caregave for Mom (after I brought her from WI to MI) for 3 years and 4th year in

a nh.

She was almost 89 when she died in '02

No dx other than mine.

MediCal/Medicaid

>

> Hi All,

> I would like to add some information that I have

> found

> out through all my experiences of trying to get Jim

> into a nursing home.

> I had fears that I would have to spend down to the

> bare minimum, which I have always heard was

> $3,000.00

> in Assets for a married couple and $2,000.00 if a

> single person in( " non exempt " property.) I don't

> know

> much more than that for the single person, but I

> contacted an Elder Care Attorney that specializes in

> MediCal. This is very important to do. There are

> also

> Pro Bono (Free Attorneys) that are Elder Care

> Attorneys that can give you information and advise

> you

> on how to go about MediCal/Medicaid. In California

> it

> is MediCal, but it is the same as Medicaid in other

> states, some of the rules may be different in other

> states, so it is important to contact an Elder Care

> Attorney. I found my Elder Care Attorney by

> contacting the Alzheimer's Support group in my area

> and they recommended him. Also the Parkinsons

> support

> group can recommend attorneys. You can find Pro Bono

> Elder Care Attorneys by contacting the Senior

> Community Center in your area, they usually have

> visiting Pro Bono Attorneys monthly that you can

> schedule with Or call the Dept of Aging and they

> will

> help you too.

> In the beginning, not knowing what I was doing I

> first

> went to my MediCal office and a MediCal Program

> Assistant gave me a Resource Directory on Senior

> Services in my community, which also listed many Pro

> Bono Attorneys and where to find them. It also

> listed

> where I could find the Alzheimers Support group and

> Parkinsons Support group in my area. It had a wealth

> of information on just about anything you wanted to

> know for seniors

> and where to contact them. It is a guide to every

> senior thing available from A-Z. To name a few:

> Attorneys, Alzheimers Association, Contact Care Help

> Line, Caregiver Support, Death and Dying &

> Bereavement, Emergency and Safety, Services for

> Persons with Disabilities (Which I found the Day

> Program in our area) It kept my husband stimulated

> and

> more alert I believe. I chose to send him only 2

> days

> a week, because he did not have the stamina to go a

> full week. They had a bus service to pick him up at

> the door at home, but he was too paranoid to take

> it,

> so I drove him. They also served meals. At first he

> didn't want to attend, but I gradually would get him

> there and then he loved it. He was in the dementia

> unit. The people there understand that you can not

> get

> them there everyday, that there are circumstances

> where dementia throws a hook at times.

> Anyway, back to the Resourse list: Help to Stay at

> Home, Hospice, Legal Services, Meals on Wheels,

> Public

> Protection, Senior Centers and Programs, Recreation

> and Exercise, Transportation, Veterans Services and

> the list goes on. This Directory was my Bible to

> Senior Care and Help.

> Back to MediCal and my Elder Care Attorney.

> I still needed my assets as I am not of retirement

> age, so as I thought I had to spend down to

> $3,000.00

> was not necessarily true. I thought I would have to

> divorce my husband in order for him to go into a nh,

> so I could save my assets. This $3,000.00 in assets

> is

> true if you don't have a little nest egg set asside

> and you apply while your spouse is at home for

> MediCal/Medicaid, but if you can afford to put your

> spouse in a nh and pay for the first month or a few

> months and then apply for MediCal/Medicaid right

> away

> while they are already in the nh, you can have up to

> $95,100.00 in assets. My attorney said the rule

> changed again this year and you can have $111,000.00

> in assets and the spouse will qualify for

> MediCal/Medicaid. Plus $2,000.00 for the

> institutional

> spouse. (Some may keep more) This is in California

> that I know for sure, it may be different in other

> states. I made an appointment with a Social Worker

> at

> MediCal and brought in all of our assets, even what

> I

> make in my part time job and Jim qualified for

> MediCal. I can not make anymore than I make in my

> part

> time job, as I thought maybe I could do some

> substitute jobs, but I can not make anymore than I

> showed for assets or MediCal will start to subtract

> my

> extra income. MediCal will pay me $2,400.00 monthly

> for my allowance to live on. It was $2,378, but as

> of

> this year it has gone to $2,400.00. They will pay me

> this monthly until Jim's death.

> The things that are exempt as assets for MediCal are

> :

>

> * Principal Residence

> (And on the basis of intent to return home) They

> state

> on the basis to return home, but it is not that your

> spouse has to return home, it is just left open for

> the choice to be there.

>

> * 1 Automobile

>

> * Retirement funds of " Community Spouse " (Spouse at

> Home)

>

> *Retirement funds of " Institutionalized Spouse " (If

> periodic payments of principal and interest are

> begun)

>

> *Annuities (If immediate, periodic and even payments

> of principal and interest are begun and the terms

> meet

> Federal/State guidelines) Annuities must be

> annuitized.

>

> *Term Life Insurance

>

> *Life Insurance (with cash value below $1,500

>

> *Burial Plot or Crypt

>

> *Prepaid Burial Plan (with cash value below $1,500

> or

> unlimited if irrevocable)

>

> To protect your assets put them into annuities,

> which

> are stocks. It is things like Life Insurance and

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

June 28, 2006

I tell you what, I am so fed up with the medical

profession, I could choke. I think you should still

demand an accounting from the NH and Medicaid for what

was paid and by whom. If MCaid paid for the whold

month she died, the NH should have refunded that

portion to them, and certainly your 20 days should

have been refunded. Probably one of the reasons they

didn't come after you for part of her estate after she

died was that if they think the estate is not

extensive, it isn't worth their time to do it. I have

been told that.

My husband was returned from sr. diagnostics at the

hospital today, a far cry from what he went in last

Wednesday. He was alert, eating, and talking, tho

making no sense. He had been combative at the NH, and

they tried seroquel, which didn't do anything, but he

had a UTI (the hospital diagnosed this), and the NH

insisted he go in for medicine evaluation. The

hospital put him on clonaphine; tried trazadone for

sleep, but it didn't work; Depakote to even out the

moods; and because he appeared to be in pain, they

placed a fentanyl patch on him for pain. He is now in

a semi-coma, zombie state, took 4 aids/nurses to move

him tonight, won't open eyes, can't talk, is still

combative and antagonized easily but doesnt have

enough strength to hurt anyone. I was impressed at

first with the psychiatrist, and he agreed that he

thought it was Lewy Body, so why did he put him on

clonaphine and the fentanyl patch, part of the

morphine drugs? Now he is a complete mess. I am

beside myself as to what to do about this. Does

anyone have any suggestions? I'm about ready to call

off all the drugs except Celexa, Flomax, Tylenol, and

the antibiotic for the UTI. Of course, the HN doesn't

want this, because they would have to take care of

him!

--- Donna Mido wrote:

> June,

>

> I think that is why it is so important to see what

> the legal issues are in the state you live in, as

> they are all different. I was told she could have a

> house and car that would be exempt here in MI. I

> imagine that is where they would have gone to

> " recover " if there was a recovery law here. I found

> a lawyer that cost me $5000. who worked both in MI

> and WI and he got me out of most any trouble I was

> in and said whoever I was working with didn't know

> what he was doing. (For Medicaid.)

>

> Yes, you are right about the spend down, and the

> Medicaid wanted to know when I took out the burial

> expenses. It had been done long before we looked at

> Medicaid.

>

> And it broke me, and her and she only spent the last

> year in a nh. I was left with nothing. They took

> most of the rent off her house and her SS check

> which was close to $1500 for the two. I never did

> find out what the cost of the nh was. The nh just

> sent me my part of the bill and I never knew what

> Medicaid paid. I guess I would have found that out

> when she died if I had owed anything. I had just

> paid the $1500. in Oct when she died and she had

> only been in the nh for 10 days that month. I never

> did see a bill or get a refund.

>

> So, do ask questions. I saw several lawyers while I

> had Mom with me for 3 years and most of them didn't

> tell me anything. I didn't ask the right questions.

> And I had the complication of two states. I assumed

> she was still a resident of WI, as that is where her

> home was. Because she was here with me for 3 years,

> she was now a resident of MI.

>

> Donna R

>

> Caregave for Mom (after I brought her from WI to MI)

> for 3 years and 4th year in a nh.

>

> She was almost 89 when she died in '02

>

> No dx other than mine.

>

> MediCal/Medicaid

> >

> > Hi All,

> > I would like to add some information that I have

> > found

> > out through all my experiences of trying to get

> Jim

> > into a nursing home.

> > I had fears that I would have to spend down to the

> > bare minimum, which I have always heard was

> > $3,000.00

> > in Assets for a married couple and $2,000.00 if a

> > single person in( " non exempt " property.) I don't

> > know

> > much more than that for the single person, but I

> > contacted an Elder Care Attorney that specializes

> in

> > MediCal. This is very important to do. There are

> > also

> > Pro Bono (Free Attorneys) that are Elder Care

> > Attorneys that can give you information and advise

> > you

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

June 28, 2006

June,

Please put into your " search "

nsclc.org

then look up " 20 Common Mistakes Made by NH's. "

I had the same problem you had with a hospital and the nh. They over medicate

and use the wrong stuff because that's the way they do it with dementia. I had

a Psch tell me, " You treat all dementia alike. " I told him, no you don't! Then

I fought with the nh for the next 4 months to get her off what the Hospital put

her on. I had the same results you have. And these MD's said they knew about

LBD also. They don't! She could have walked in if it hadn't been so far and I

carried her out and I was in tears. She never knew she was in a nh, she thought

she was still in the hospital.

Donna R

Caregave for Mom (after I brought her from WI to MI) for 3 years and 4th year in

a nh.

She was almost 89 when she died in '02

No dx other than mine.

MediCal/Medicaid

> >

> > Hi All,

> > I would like to add some information that I have

> > found

> > out through all my experiences of trying to get

> Jim

> > into a nursing home.

> > I had fears that I would have to spend down to the

> > bare minimum, which I have always heard was

> > $3,000.00

> > in Assets for a married couple and $2,000.00 if a

> > single person in( " non exempt " property.) I don't

> > know

> > much more than that for the single person, but I

> > contacted an Elder Care Attorney that specializes

> in

> > MediCal. This is very important to do. There are

> > also

> > Pro Bono (Free Attorneys) that are Elder Care

> > Attorneys that can give you information and advise

> > you

>

=== message truncated ===

__________________________________________________

June 29, 2006

My dad suffered the same fate from a " well respected " pysch hospital

that the NH sent him to to get his meds adjusted after an episode.

Despite our repeat warnings to keep him isolated since he was so

scared (from hallucinations) they put him in their " group' the next

morning and he flipped out and ran and tipped a patient out of their

wheel chair and on the floor so they zonked him with Depokote,

Haldol, Ativan and many other pysch drugs which are extremely bad

for LBD people. So a week later (when they said we could see him)

the man we walked into the place and who ate a sandwich with us that

day was a zombie, eyes shut, a cathether, couldn't swallow whole

foods only liquids and no response and no muscle control (counldn't

even open his eyes) I had been fortunate enf to find this site and

found the list of bad drugs and my sister and I (conservator and

healthcare agen) demanded they stop the majority of drugs. Of

course, they were " done " with him and we had to find a new NH in 24

hrs. He did recover fully (physically) and regain his ability to

walk and pee without a catheter (which caused non stop infections)

one NH tried to scare us and say he shouldn't be without cathether

and without flowmax and proscar (prostrate) and that it could " cause

agitation if he didn't go on his own " so i told them they had better

make sure they retrain the bladder (not a big deal) so yes it can

be a long hard road and yes most doctors don't know about the

restrictions with LBD and meds. For my dad SEROQUEL worked best for

reducing hallucinations but it took a week or two to get regulated

and he got it 3x a day.. Good Luck

> >

> > > Jan,

> > >

> > > THAT IS only for spouses. Because I was the

> > > daughter, it didn't work the same. Mom had to

> > spend

> > > down to the 3,000. before she could apply for

> > > Medicaid. And because her house was in WI and she

> > > was now a MI resident and living with me, her

> > house

> > > wouldn't have been exempt. Her house had to be in

> > > MI to be exempt.

> > >

> > > DO get a lawyer and ask and ask. I didn't ask the

> > > lawyers I talked to about what I could do with her

> > > money for the 3 years she lived with me. When I

> > > finally went to try and get her on Medicaid, the

> > > lawyer asked if I was taking out of her money, the

> > > average cost of a nh in MI. for the whole three

> > > years she was with me! It was to late then.. You

> > > can be paid out of their money while they are with

> > > you, I guess. That would be something you would

> > > need to ask an attorney.

> > >

> > > So much you find out later. I did get her burial

> > > money paid up front or I would have had to pay for

> > > that too. It became exempt because it was done

> > > previously. DO THIS STUFF early. It use to be 3

> > > years they can look back and now it is 5 years.

> > (It

> > > was in a trust so they couldn't get it anyway.)

> > >

> > > And don't forget that some states have " recovery

> > > laws. " that means if there is ,money in the

> > estate

> > > after someone dies, they can come after you if

> > they

> > > were on Medicaid or in a nh. MI doesn't have that

> > > law yet, but they are working on it.

> > >

> > > Donna R

> > >

> > > Caregave for Mom (after I brought her from WI to

> > MI)

> > > for 3 years and 4th year in a nh.

> > >

> > > She was almost 89 when she died in '02

> > >

> > > No dx other than mine.

> > >

> > > MediCal/Medicaid

> > >

> > > Hi All,

> > > I would like to add some information that I have

> > > found

> > > out through all my experiences of trying to get

> > Jim

> > > into a nursing home.

> > > I had fears that I would have to spend down to the

> > > bare minimum, which I have always heard was

> > > $3,000.00

> > > in Assets for a married couple and $2,000.00 if a

> > > single person in( " non exempt " property.) I don't

> > > know

> > > much more than that for the single person, but I

> > > contacted an Elder Care Attorney that specializes

> > in

> > > MediCal. This is very important to do. There are

> > > also

> > > Pro Bono (Free Attorneys) that are Elder Care

> > > Attorneys that can give you information and advise

> > > you

> >

> === message truncated ===

>

> __________________________________________________

>

June 29, 2006