RE: Re: How to get my Aspie bf to understand personal boundries - Judy's post

[Guest guest]

Hi Judy,

I agree with Helen; your post is gold! Thank you for your recent posts wish are

so filled with wisdom and love for Ian!

You are a true gem for us NT women married to AS men!

Marci

Marci Wheeler, M.S.W.

Indiana Resource Center for Autism

Indiana Institute on Disability and Community

2853 E. Tenth Street

Bloomington, IN 47408-2696

Phone: \Fax:

mwheeler@...

www.iidc.indiana.edu/irca<http://www.iidc.indiana.edu/irca>

From: aspires-relationships

[mailto:aspires-relationships ] On Behalf Of helen_foisy

Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2011 11:08 AM

To: aspires-relationships

Subject: Re: How to get my Aspie bf to understand

personal boundries - Judy's post

Judy,

Everything you say rings absolutely true, and it is told from the perspective of

a very intuitive, empathetic, patient and very loving non spectrum spouse.

Many of the things that would work to manage an NT meltdown are counterintuitive

when applied to an AS person. However, both NT and AS alike (as many AS parents

of AS children may be trying to use methods/wisdom handed down by NT parents)

could be forgiven for not knowing. After reading your post, now they will

understand, *completely.* You have explained it all in the best way I have ever

seen. Folks, this is gold. Keep this post.

- Helen

>

>

> >

> Subject: Re: How to get my Aspie bf to understand

personal boundries

> To:

aspires-relationships <mailto:aspires-relationships%40yahoogroups\

..com>

> Date: Wednesday, 13 July, 2011, 11:28

>

>

> Â

>

>

>

> JB: Firstly, this sounds like an Aspie who has been fighting with his thoughts

and cant express them. And you, being the NT, is asking him how he is and trying

to resolve the issue.I have an inkling of how to handle Ian now, but your

scenario was a common one for me in the early days. Ian would not communicate,

and hated (still does) hate long conversations unless he is on his hobby horse

for his favourite subjects. Otherwise, I might as well have been talking

Swahili, for all that he responded. I am going to answer your post with

interjections of my own, in italics:

> Â

>

> L: My boyfriend (who has aspergers) doesn't seem to understand how much it

stresses me out when he wont back off from a discussion or argument.

>

> JB: You are living with Mr Spock. He has his parameters and mindset, and he

believes he is right. No amount of arguing in the normal sense will work. A back

and forth debate doesnt work with your average AS. Use calm voice, clipped

sentences and make one or two statements about your viewpoint. 'My view is that

..... and I believe that....'. And an open question 'What do you mean'.  Ian

used to ask me that all the time. He explained that he often couldnt 'hear' me

as he tuned out a lot of the voice pitch when I talked loudly or screamed in

anger. And that if I spoke for too long, he couldnt follow the argument at all.

Short sentences, in a low tone, and to the point. Try it. Even if you really

want to snap his head off.

>

> Â L:I can only be patient for so long and it seems no matter what direction I

go in to try to avoid things coming to an ugly head, it ends up there anyway.

>

> JB: He may have a propensity to be self introspective, and its part of the

make up that he will brood or over analyse. If you can, you step away from the

boiling point, and almost, if you like, give up on the making of your point or

winning a score. You will only feel angry and thwarted, perhaps, and its better

for you to know that you are right, and calm with it, than pursue what will be a

fruitless argument. There will be a time when he is calmer and you can judge

when to say, 'I would appreciate it if when...' so you set up a scenario for him

in the future. AS people, it seems, work well with pre-planned scenarios, and

this makes for a set piece for them when the next such occasion arises.

>

> L: For example all day today he has been anxious and moody and I've tried

everything from giving him his space, pretending like nothing is wrong, to

asking him what is wrong, to comforting him and suggesting fun relaxing things

to do together and nothing seems to help he just keeps heading in the same

miserable direction he always does.

>

> JB: Believe it or not, sometimes the comforting get their goat more than just

leaving them alone. Ian hates to be touched when he is in his 'introspective'

phase, and he wants to be alone with his thoughts. They actually like being

alone, sometimes. That 'mother's in the kitchen' thing. They want to know that

their loved one/carer is nearby, but dont want them in their faces at the

moment. Hard, and believe me, its easier for all if you dont probe them or ask

whats wrong. I have found that is the red rag to the proverbial bull. They dont

often know themselves 'what is wrong'. They just know that they are immersed in

that down mindset, and perhaps he is struggling with his AS and like my Ian,

cant understand a lot of what the NT world around him is saying and doing. Ian

says that he often hears white noise when lots of speaking is going on, he cant

concentrate on tirades and its a bit of an insult when he tells me that on some

days, my voice 'grates' and

> it

> 'makes no sense!'. Dont speak in mixed messages or get out of control - YOU

can contain this by being firm, know what you want and just say your piece but

in short, concise, words. Or wait until he is more approachable. Honestly, that

does work. You may have to learn to dampen down your own instinct to react, but

you will be less stressed if you do so.

>

> L: We ended up arguing about some things and it got to a point where I just

couldn't take it anymore because it seemed like there would never be an end

because it was just one thing after another and I told him I needed this to stop

or I was going to scream

>

> JB: This is where you should just go out somewhere for a while. Just say, I'll

leave you alone. Whatever the argument is about, he isnt capable of dealing with

it. He has his mindset. He has his own miseries, perhaps his own insecurities,

and he cant show them to you. He will be trying to negotiate NT world, and not

succeeding, and AS hate not to succeed. He wont change his mind just like that.

It has taken me years to get Ian to see my point of view on stuff like religion

and politics, but we still differ. Because of Ian's Sensory Processing Disorder,

he cant take out the rubbish, neither can he cook a meal, or eat certain foods.

He cant bear noisy crowds, so over the years I have reduced the amount of joint

social stuff that he does with me. He is more spontaneous now, but for years he

wouldnt hug me, or respond to entreaties for love. He didnt see how being

effusive with affection counted, as he said he loved me and that's what

mattered. And to be

> honest,

> falsely declaring love in tacit phrases which he had rehearsed, didnt work

either.

>

> L: and it went on for another half hour like that between how he didn't do

anything wrong by wanting to finish the conversation, to him being upset for not

getting to finish everything he wanted to say, and him being upset with himself

for " screwing everything up " (his words).

>

> JB: In his mind, he knows what he expects from his scenarios, and what

'should' happen when he uses his phrases, and what his expected response from

you should be. He wont be able to go beyond this, as its not what he had lined

up to say. And protracted, loud shouting from the NT partner, as would work with

another NT, wont work. He will have tuned out. Ian says that he cant,

physically, work out my approach and I need to explain myself better to him. It

hard to get Ian to let me finish my sentences (because he feels I have already

said enough) and he often used to say things like 'are you STILL talking about

this?'. After we backed off from each other, let the dust settle, it was clear

that he didnt 'hear' me. Screwing everything up? In other words, not getting

him... and he certainly isnt getting you.

> What I do now, is to not harp on or repeat past hurts, or keep going over old

ground because Ian hasnt got my message or understood my point of view. He

either never will, because thats the way it is, or he does get my side of an

issue, but only after I have calmly and pointedly put it in words that are short

and concise. (not like this post! But its important to me that I get to speak

to you in full, so that it might help). I ask Ian, what is your view? I

listen. I say to him, now I will tell you mine. In short words, and carefully

thought out. And dont feel bullied or dismissed. He may make you feel this way,

as he may be one of those who sound highhanded when they speak. The AS little

professor way. He doesnt mean this, its a part of his approach to life.

>

> L: Eventually he screamed right in my face with a very scary expression and I

had to ask him to leave me alone for a while so he went outside.

>

> JB: This sounds like he was at the end of his AS tether. As he isnt equipped

to deal with NT emotions, and he is busy thinking, analysing, working out what

the heck to say and do (and having no script to help him) he has melted down.

Dont take these personally, he really is asking for you to help him by not being

persistent or needy. I know that sounds harsh, and its not true, either. But he

wont see it that way. He will be feeling pushed into a corner, because he feels

helpless. Cant take the yelling. Oddly, when Ian meltdown, he doesnt know what

its like for others around him, he is shut off and going through an emotional

outpouring that makes him feel better afterwards. He is blanked out. However,

when I mimicked a meltdown to him, he was terrified; he said it was scary. He

didnt know how he sounded or looked. It was upsetting for him to think that was

how he came across. I have learned to accept that his Jekyll and Hyde is not

meant as it would be in

> other, NT style violent situations. He is chemically dealing with his

brainstorm and once it is over, he is distraught, exhausted and sad. So I

protect myself and Ian during meltdowns as we acknowledge that they exist and

that they happen when he is stressed. So we negate the stress, but try not to

get into arguments or angry situations. They do happen, of course, but its me

who walks away, goes into the garden or to see the flowers in the park. Then I

come back, hug Ian and we start over.

>

> L: I just can't believe it has to come to this in order for him to back off

and give me my space, even though just earlier today I was not only willing to

give him his space, but was quite aware that he needed it.

>

> JB: He does need his space, a space to meltdown, a space to think - this

doesnt have to be a physical space, but a mental one, too. And its going to be

hard, because when you need to bounce into the room, like Tigger, he will not

respond and ask you not to touch. He's in the AS zone. So you will have to bide

your time. Then take advantage of his warmth when HE is ready to give it. Use

your friends and other social life to fill the gaps. But, say to him, you are

giving him this space because it suits you to do so, however he will need to

know, most strongly, that YOU need him to do things for YOU. So lay down some

rules for him, in terms of what you need. But when its calm and loving, not when

there is shouting. Ask him to respect your views, and say hello when you come in

the room, to tell you when he cant manage to be loving because his mind is tied

up in AS analysis. Ask him to do things for you, and thank him. Dont ask him to

do things he cant do,

> even if

> its the usual 'man' stuff.

>

> L: I really don't know what I am doing wrong. Nothing ever seems to work. I am

so tired.

>

> JB: Right now - dont even think that you are doing wrong. You are acting as

you would, or have done, with previous partners or others around you. When

something is awry, you want to sort it out. However, you cant do this with an AS

partner. They have set scenarios, fears, issues, uncommunicative ways that are

because they dont 'read' the same way as NT's do. Unpick everything you have

ever learned about social life and love life. Work from the premise that this is

a very special person but he needs careful handling, like bone china. He wont

respond to your gut reactions to have a go at him for being unresponsive, maybe

lazy, maybe selfish. He wont know that. You will have to back off, but be firm

at the same time. I often say to Ian, this is what I am doing today. Then

brooking no moaning or anger about it. I ask him 'what are you doing today'.

That kind of 'listings' helps us move about each other and know what to expect

from each other. Needs dont come

> into it, although I know what I can offer his needs, and do it without asking,

I ALWAYS have to ask him to give me what I need. He never knows instinctively,

he learns by practise.

> Finally, remember he means no harm. Its his programming and his experience

that makes him see things differently. You have to explain (not tell) and you

have to ask (not demand). If all else fails, write him an email, I still do this

when Ian cant bear the sound of a voice or when he cant process a string of

words. Daft, but it works. I dont demand in my email, I just state the facts.

> I hope this hasnt put you off, I have the most intense, sincere (they are

always sincere, falsehood doesnt come into their matrix) and dedicated person,

who wont go to social events, tells me I look horrible, tells me to get out of

the way (a computer needs him) or that my food is sh*t. Enjoy the good bits, and

work your way around the bewildering and frightening bits. And stick up for

yourself.

> Judy B

> Â

> Â

>

> Â

>

>