Re: QUESTION OF PERCENTS

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/13/2000 3:53:53 PM Eastern Daylight Time,

teri@... writes:

<< Does that make sense? Let's just be positive. For the record, I'm not the

only person bothered by this. I'm just usually the only person on this list

who says anything. >>

I can agree with this, as it does bother me when someone puts down low carb,

which is what works for me, so good point

carol

[Guest guest]

DJ Maser, the world health organization collects statistics and

estimates future incidence of diabetes, it does not seem sorted by

percentage. diabetologica publishes on the subject of diabetes.

Sam

[Guest guest]

D. J. Maser asked:

<< Does anyone know a site on the web that has the percents of population in

each country that has diabetes? >>

It would be hard to come up with correct current numbers from all the

countries, because not only is the U.S. experiencing what is commonly

referred to as a " diabetes epidemic, " but so are many other countries who

" " Westernize " ... including adopting our eating habits. I believe type 2 has

grown by 30% in the U.S. in the past ten years, and much of that growth is

among African-Americans, Native Americans, Hispanics, and people below the

age of 30.

Type 2 presents much more among those middle-aged and older, and as our

population ages, we are seeing greater numbers being diagnosed. Also, about

three years ago the standards for diagnosis were changed. They are now (a)

overt signs of the disease, accompanied by a random high reading, or ( two

subsequent fasting readings of 126 or above. (Formerly it was two readings

of 140+. Fasting readings are not a good diagnosis tool ... glucose

tolerance tests, a 1-1/2 to 2-hour postprandial, or HbA1c would provide

better info and earlier diagnosis, but we must live with this for now.)

I recently went to http://www.altavista.com and did a search, putting in

quotation marks " diabetes epidemic " and got dozens of news stories from all

around the world ... There are diabetes epidemics in Central America, India,

Japan, European countries and elsewhere.

I call our modern eating style the " fieldhand diet " ... it works fine if you

are a strapping youngster who is up at dawn, slinging hay bales all day

long. Dietitians keep talking about how a high-carbohydrate diet " provides

energy. " I go, " How much energy does it take to change the channels on the

remote? To shift the car from P to D? To nuke a packaged meal in the

microwave? " To make matters worse, our diabetic bodies have lost their

ability to convert carbohydrates to energy; instead, we store it away as

belly fat, and then we're " hungry " again in a few hours, because the carbs

we just ate " didn't do us any good. " We feel weak and listless, and

interpret it as hunger.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Susie, I think the diet we experience might be called the feedlot diet.

One fellow compared the ADA diet to the contents of his feedsack, the

proportions were the same as those to fatten animals. Sam

[Guest guest]

Another plea from me: I don't constantly denigrate the low-carb WOE or any

other WOE that list members discuss and say works for them. I would appreciate

it if people would please refrain from comments such as this. I'm REALLY getting

tired of them!

Teri

Re: QUESTION OF PERCENTS

Susie, I think the diet we experience might be called the feedlot diet.

One fellow compared the ADA diet to the contents of his feedsack, the

proportions were the same as those to fatten animals. Sam

eGroups Sponsor

Public website for Diabetes International:

http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

[Guest guest]

Another plea from me: I don't constantly denigrate the low-carb WOE or any

other WOE that list members discuss and say works for them. I would appreciate

it if people would please refrain from comments such as this. I'm REALLY getting

tired of them!

Teri

Re: QUESTION OF PERCENTS

Susie, I think the diet we experience might be called the feedlot diet.

One fellow compared the ADA diet to the contents of his feedsack, the

proportions were the same as those to fatten animals. Sam

eGroups Sponsor

Public website for Diabetes International:

http://www.msteri.com/diabetes-info/diabetes_int

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-10-13 13:11:22 EDT, you write:

<< Dietitians keep talking about how a high-carbohydrate diet " provides

energy. " I go, " How much energy does it take to change the channels on the

remote? >>

No, no, Susie, you don't " go " , you " say " ! I'm an English major and this

particular popular mis-usage drives me crazy! -- (the other thing is when

people mispronounce " nuclear " as " nu-cu-lar " .)

Anyway, I'm glad you're back! :-) Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 00-10-13 14:43:53 EDT, you write:

<<

Another plea from me: I don't constantly denigrate the low-carb WOE or any

other WOE that list members discuss and say works for them. I would

appreciate it if people would please refrain from comments such as this. I'm

REALLY getting tired of them!

>>

Hey, Teri...I got this same message three times! Vicki

[Guest guest]

Teri wrote:

<< Another plea from me: I don't constantly denigrate the low-carb WOE or

any other WOE that list members discuss and say works for them. I would

appreciate it if people would please refrain from comments such as this. I'm

REALLY getting tired of them! >>

It's probably impossible for people to imagine what it's like to be other

people, with other problems. I think you are hanging onto the belief that

you are a different type of diabetic who can somehow " live a normal life "

and " eat like normal people. " Unfortunately for us, there's no gauge

connected to our pancreas beta cells that works like a fuel gauge to notify

us when we're running out of fuel. Most of us muddle along for years,

ignorant of the invisible damage that's occurring. You had the good fortune

to have a doctor who, aware of your family history, was literally waiting

for you to show some sign of diabetes. Nobody wants to hear grim news about

their health prospects. But you're not a unique form of diabetic ... you're

just an earlier version of us. Your pancreas is wearing out right now, every

day. You're still young. Who knows how long it will take, but the typical

dreary scenario for us is that your numbers will inch upward almost

imperceptibly. Then you'll be prescribed medicine, then a second medicine.

Eventually, if you're like most type 2's, you'll be on medicines and

injected insulin. You have a unique opportunity now to ward off that

depressing prediction by recognizing how very important diet is to good

control. We are not " just like healthy people, but we have a label " ... We

have a major illness, the complications of which have been between the third

and seventh leading cause of death. It still floors me that we are a group

of diabetics who spend a great deal of time discussing our illness and good

treatment options, and yet there are people who don't " get " diabetes ... The

hallmark of diabetes is an inability to tolerate carb loads. If a person can

eat a high-carb diet without exercising off the glucose hit and without

taking any medicines and without having glucose " power surges, " then that

person is not a diabetic. People are diagnosed diabetic based on certain

established criteria which we've discussed several times. If a person has

been diagnosed in the past, that person was a diabetic at the time of the

diagnosis. If that person is now responding just like a nondiabetic would,

meaning no glucose spikes after eating high-carb meals, that person - for

now - no longer meets the criteria for a diabetes diagnosis.

We often hear it said, " Once a diabetic, always a diabetic. " I don't know if

that's true. A Mexican study revealed that six percent of those studied had

spontaneously recovered - were considered " cured " - one year later. But then

did those people once again get a diabetes diagnosis five or ten years

later? That wasn't addressed. So many things in our bodies are in a state of

flux ... Why shouldn't people be able to move back and forth between

diabetes and non-diabetes? Most of the people in the group have moved beyond

that, and it becomes a matter of developing coping techniques. I don't think

the discussions are about " ways of eating " and " denigration. " Those of us

who have pretty messed-up pancreases have no choice in the matter, unless

we're willing to counteract the glucose hits by plenty of exercise following

every carby meal and/or pills and injected insulin. I think you sincerely

believe that we could eat like you do and that we merely choose one path.

Maybe you'll be like the " lucky six percent " in that study and your diabetes

diagnosis was caused by some illness or stress you were under at that time,

and it'll never revisit you, no matter how many carbohydrates you eat. I

certainly hope so. There's so much unknown about this infernal disease and

its treatment. I guess the odds are, though, that there's a process going on

inside your body right now that will involve you becoming less and less

tolerant of high carb intake. You were concerned the other day about a hypo

you experienced. People who've been diabetic a long time are familiar with

them. That's the " trough " half of the " glucose rollercoaster ride " we get on

if we don't take steps to smooth out our readings via food selection,

quantities, and timing. If you have more of them, thinking back to the foods

you ate in the preceding hours should offer valuable insight regarding which

are your " problem foods. " Right now, it sounds as if you don't have any

Problem Foods, but those nasty buggers will probably begin rearing their

ugly little heads in time. For me, it was the foods I " craved " the most.

When we hypo, our bodies go on Red Alert. Hypos are the first stage in a

process that can result in death. The theory is that as we get on that

glucose rollercoaster ride, our bodies quickly figure out which foods bounce

us back up from a hypo and demand plenty of those. Maybe it's potato chips

(heavily-processed potatoes). Maybe, as it was for Rob and me, it's

macaroni. For some people, it's sugary cereal. These foods are like a drug,

causing powerful changes in our bodies. They are called " comfort foods, "

because they bring up from that unpleasant, scary hypo state reliably. A

major beauty of removing the Problem Foods from our diet is that - hey -

we're not obsessed weaklings! It wasn't an " eating disorder " or " food

addiction " ... it was our bodies doing the best they could to try to " save "

us each time we wandered too close to the precipice.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Susie,

Sweetie, I DO listen to you. I know fully well I CAN'T eat like a normal person.

For now, I can eat small or moderate portions of some of those nasty carb foods.

BUT, I keep testing, and when the day comes that my testing shows my body is

reacting differently to those foods -- or any others -- I will modify my food

intake accordingly. I don't care if it's bread or spinach that does it, my

intake will be modified. I have no idea how many grams of carbs I eat in a day.

I doubt that my overal intake is high carb. It's probably moderate. I don't eat

high carb foods as I used to. I eat smaller amounts and ALWAYS eat them with

other foods. That's a big change for me. My WOE has changed dramatically since

diagnosis.

Whether it's comments about the ADA WOE or other sweeping statements that are

sometimes so easily made on mailing lists, I'm just sensitive to broad

generalizations that put down methods that do work for some. It's kind of like

politics. I'd far rather hear the positives of what works for a person than the

negatives of what doesnt' work for them. Does that make sense? Let's just be

positive. For the record, I'm not the only person bothered by this. I'm just

usually the only person on this list who says anything.

Teri

Re: QUESTION OF PERCENTS

Teri wrote:

<< Another plea from me: I don't constantly denigrate the low-carb WOE or

any other WOE that list members discuss and say works for them. I would

appreciate it if people would please refrain from comments such as this. I'm

REALLY getting tired of them! >>

It's probably impossible for people to imagine what it's like to be other

people, with other problems. I think you are hanging onto the belief that

you are a different type of diabetic who can somehow " live a normal life "

and " eat like normal people. " Unfortunately for us, there's no gauge

connected to our pancreas beta cells that works like a fuel gauge to notify

us when we're running out of fuel. Most of us muddle along for years,

ignorant of the invisible damage that's occurring. You had the good fortune

to have a doctor who, aware of your family history, was literally waiting

for you to show some sign of diabetes. Nobody wants to hear grim news about

their health prospects. But you're not a unique form of diabetic ... you're

just an earlier version of us. Your pancreas is wearing out right now, every

day. You're still young. Who knows how long it will take, but the typical

dreary scenario for us is that your numbers will inch upward almost

imperceptibly. Then you'll be prescribed medicine, then a second medicine.

Eventually, if you're like most type 2's, you'll be on medicines and

injected insulin. You have a unique opportunity now to ward off that

depressing prediction by recognizing how very important diet is to good

control. We are not " just like healthy people, but we have a label " ... We

have a major illness, the complications of which have been between the third

and seventh leading cause of death. It still floors me that we are a group

of diabetics who spend a great deal of time discussing our illness and good

treatment options, and yet there are people who don't " get " diabetes ... The

hallmark of diabetes is an inability to tolerate carb loads. If a person can

eat a high-carb diet without exercising off the glucose hit and without

taking any medicines and without having glucose " power surges, " then that

person is not a diabetic. People are diagnosed diabetic based on certain

established criteria which we've discussed several times. If a person has

been diagnosed in the past, that person was a diabetic at the time of the

diagnosis. If that person is now responding just like a nondiabetic would,

meaning no glucose spikes after eating high-carb meals, that person - for

now - no longer meets the criteria for a diabetes diagnosis.

We often hear it said, " Once a diabetic, always a diabetic. " I don't know if

that's true. A Mexican study revealed that six percent of those studied had

spontaneously recovered - were considered " cured " - one year later. But then

did those people once again get a diabetes diagnosis five or ten years

later? That wasn't addressed. So many things in our bodies are in a state of

flux ... Why shouldn't people be able to move back and forth between

diabetes and non-diabetes? Most of the people in the group have moved beyond

that, and it becomes a matter of developing coping techniques. I don't think

the discussions are about " ways of eating " and " denigration. " Those of us

who have pretty messed-up pancreases have no choice in the matter, unless

we're willing to counteract the glucose hits by plenty of exercise following

every carby meal and/or pills and injected insulin. I think you sincerely

believe that we could eat like you do and that we merely choose one path.

Maybe you'll be like the " lucky six percent " in that study and your diabetes

diagnosis was caused by some illness or stress you were under at that time,

and it'll never revisit you, no matter how many carbohydrates you eat. I

certainly hope so. There's so much unknown about this infernal disease and

its treatment. I guess the odds are, though, that there's a process going on

inside your body right now that will involve you becoming less and less

tolerant of high carb intake. You were concerned the other day about a hypo

you experienced. People who've been diabetic a long time are familiar with

them. That's the " trough " half of the " glucose rollercoaster ride " we get on

if we don't take steps to smooth out our readings via food selection,

quantities, and timing. If you have more of them, thinking back to the foods

you ate in the preceding hours should offer valuable insight regarding which

are your " problem foods. " Right now, it sounds as if you don't have any

Problem Foods, but those nasty buggers will probably begin rearing their

ugly little heads in time. For me, it was the foods I " craved " the most.

When we hypo, our bodies go on Red Alert. Hypos are the first stage in a

process that can result in death. The theory is that as we get on that

glucose rollercoaster ride, our bodies quickly figure out which foods bounce

us back up from a hypo and demand plenty of those. Maybe it's potato chips

(heavily-processed potatoes). Maybe, as it was for Rob and me, it's

macaroni. For some people, it's sugary cereal. These foods are like a drug,

causing powerful changes in our bodies. They are called " comfort foods, "

because they bring up from that unpleasant, scary hypo state reliably. A

major beauty of removing the Problem Foods from our diet is that - hey -

we're not obsessed weaklings! It wasn't an " eating disorder " or " food

addiction " ... it was our bodies doing the best they could to try to " save "

us each time we wandered too close to the precipice.

Susie