Guest guest Posted September 26, 2007 Report Share Posted September 26, 2007 Dear , Am 26.09.2007 um 07:53 schrieb Carson Boyd: > Sorry Roslyn, I hadn't seen your email to me until I read down in > this one. > As far as ethics it doesn't seem ethical to publish a very > expensive library > and then tell people once they bought it that it was defective and > they > needed to buy another. Wow! Who in this world ever cares about ethic? [fcb] Actually there are people around who care about such things. Matel toys, here in the US, has a promise that the toys they sell will be engineered with your child's safety in mind. It was recently discovered that toys they had manufactured, on their behalf, in China were made with lead based paint. So, even though this defect was not their fault and a violation of the order they placed, they took responsibility for it. Matel recalled all of the toys, at great expense to them because they consider their reputation important. Sounds like a belief system: " thou shalt not... " ;-) > Imagine an encyclopedia company saying " Oh, by the > way those encyclopedias we've been selling for the past 20 years > are filled > with falsified reports and mistruths. You should throw them away > and come > buy a new set at full price. " People would have a hissy fit. I > don't see > where this is any different. What a gift! Another one who tells me that I was living on a religion the whole past 20 years! And that I can finally let go of it! [fcb] It sounds as if you have no standards at all . Do you even expect tuna to be in the can if you buy a can of tuna? When I open a can of tuna and find dog food instead, if I'm clear, then what I want in that moment is dog food in the can, but that doesn't mean I'm going to add mayonnaise and eat it. It doesn't mean that I won't write to the company or go to the store and ask for my money back. It doesn't mean I will buy that brand of tuna the next time I go to the store. Sometimes this " loving what is " idea gets perverted into a suggestion that you become spineless and put up with anything, but I can love what is and still be a stand for quality. > And, as someone who did a few thousand dollars worth of " auditing " > back in > the mid 80's, my experience of it was not akin to The Work. If I got > anything of value from my auditing I'm not aware of it, and I went > to the > level they call " Clear. " Well, all my life I worked on getting where I am, now. Whether I was aware of it, or not. So... this is where life got me. Was it worth it? If anything had been different, I might not be where I am. That certainly makes sense. My life couldn't have been any other way than the way that it was. However, there is such a thing as learning from one's mistakes. I would not sit by quietly if my daughter should set off down some of the mistaken roads I've taken. I like this one: > Here's an article I found on the web about the costs of Scientology. >> Expert: Rice >> Date: 4/14/2006 >> >> Question >> How much does it cost to get to clear? >> >> Answer >> The answer to your question is " It depends. " Scientology sells >> their " Clear " >> process for a fixed fee, but they also require their customers to >> purchase >> many other processes before and after " Clear. " The base price is >> around >> $6,000 but with the additional price of " auditing " and " rundowns " >> a customer >> can easily spend $15,000 to finally " attest to Clear. " >> >> " Clear " is nothing like what it used to be. 30 years ago anyone >> who was >> " Clear " was told they would have the powers and abilities of a >> god; when >> that clearly was not the case, many customers got irate and >> stopped buying >> any more Scientology. So the goals of being " Clear " (called the " end >> phenomena " ) was drastically lowered until " Clear " no longer means >> anything. >> Once one attests to being " Clear, " one is no better off than >> before the tens >> of thousands of dollars were spent. >> >> These days it is the high Operating Thetan levels that are sold as >> being >> equal to what " Clear " was 30 years ago--- after reaching OT level >> 8, and >> spending around $400,000, one then has the powers and abilities of >> a god. (I >> should also point out the obvious: no one who has purchased OT8 >> and attested >> to OT 8 has ever achieved those powers and abilities.) I wouldn't be so sure of that! I would think everyone would have the same powers of the God he's always been. He can create, destroy, label... [fcb] Well, I wouldn't be so sure of that. He can create and destroy. Is that really true? Can he even function independent of his thoughts? In my experience, " he " can't, and if he can't then who is doing the creating? Whomever it is, it's probably not " him. " " No one controls their thoughts, though some tell the story that they do. " -Byron >> So if you wish to buy Scientology enough to " go Clear, " you are >> looking at >> about $10,000 minimum. > If you wish to support Scientology Roslyn, I have no objection. > Personally I > don't place credence in a " church " which would withhold " spiritual > truth " > from those who aren't willing or able to give the " church " > $400,000. But, > obviously, there is a place for them in this world. -frank That's of course because you know that no one can withhold anything from you. [fcb] It can only seem so if I get confused about who I am. Especially not " spiritual truth " ! ,-) [fcb] It appears that the only one who can withhold spiritual truth from me is me, but then that is both ludicrous and laughable. Once when sitting with Jeannie Zandi I realized and spoke " My mind is never going to get it, is it? " She shook her head knowingly. " Life's but a walking shadow, a poor player, that struts and frets his hour upon the stage and then is heard no more; it is a tale told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, signifying nothing. " ~ Shakespeare Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 27, 2007 Report Share Posted September 27, 2007 Am 27.09.2007 um 07:34 schrieb Carson Boyd: > Dear , > > Am 26.09.2007 um 07:53 schrieb Carson Boyd: > >> Sorry Roslyn, I hadn't seen your email to me until I read down in >> this one. >> As far as ethics it doesn't seem ethical to publish a very >> expensive library >> and then tell people once they bought it that it was defective and >> they >> needed to buy another. > Wow! Who in this world ever cares about ethic? > > [fcb] Actually there are people around who care about such things. LOL Thank you, ! So... you are aware that what other people care about is their business. You are even aware that you can not know anything. And yet you think you know what people care about? ;-) >> Sounds like a belief system: " thou shalt not... " ;-) Well, where I was going is: who would you be without the thought that anyone should care about ethics? Especially when you read about Scientologies outrageous business polocies? >>> Imagine an encyclopedia company saying " Oh, by the >>> way those encyclopedias we've been selling for the past 20 years >>> are filled >>> with falsified reports and mistruths. You should throw them away >>> and come >>> buy a new set at full price. " People would have a hissy fit. I >>> don't see >>> where this is any different. >> What a gift! Another one who tells me that I was living on a religion >> the whole past 20 years! >> >> And that I can finally let go of it! > > [fcb] It sounds as if you have no standards at all . , I have MY standards. And I don't expect anyone to have standards of his own. > Do you even > expect tuna to be in the can if you buy a can of tuna? I hope not! > When I open a can of > tuna and find dog food instead, if I'm clear, then what I want in that > moment is dog food in the can, but that doesn't mean I'm going to add > mayonnaise and eat it. Of course not! > It doesn't mean that I won't write to the company or > go to the store and ask for my money back. It doesn't mean I will > buy that > brand of tuna the next time I go to the store. Sometimes this > " loving what > is " idea gets perverted into a suggestion that you become spineless > and put > up with anything, but I can love what is and still be a stand for > quality. I don't know who comes up with that. >>> And, as someone who did a few thousand dollars worth of " auditing " >>> back in >>> the mid 80's, my experience of it was not akin to The Work. If I got >>> anything of value from my auditing I'm not aware of it, and I went >>> to the >>> level they call " Clear. " >> Well, all my life I worked on getting where I am, now. Whether I was >> aware of it, or not. So... this is where life got me. Was it worth >> it? >> If anything had been different, I might not be where I am. > That certainly makes sense. My life couldn't have been any other > way than > the way that it was. However, there is such a thing as learning > from one's > mistakes. Oh, you think so? > I would not sit by quietly if my daughter should set off down some > of the mistaken roads I've taken. You would not sit quietly if your daughter sat off down for some of the mistaken roads you've not taken, would you? So where is the learning part, here? >> I like this one: >>> Here's an article I found on the web about the costs of Scientology. >>>> Expert: Rice >>>> Date: 4/14/2006 >>>> >>>> Question >>>> How much does it cost to get to clear? >>>> >>>> Answer >>>> The answer to your question is " It depends. " Scientology sells >>>> their " Clear " >>>> process for a fixed fee, but they also require their customers to >>>> purchase >>>> many other processes before and after " Clear. " The base price is >>>> around >>>> $6,000 but with the additional price of " auditing " and " rundowns " >>>> a customer >>>> can easily spend $15,000 to finally " attest to Clear. " >>>> >>>> " Clear " is nothing like what it used to be. 30 years ago anyone >>>> who was >>>> " Clear " was told they would have the powers and abilities of a >>>> god; when >>>> that clearly was not the case, many customers got irate and >>>> stopped buying >>>> any more Scientology. So the goals of being " Clear " (called the >>>> " end >>>> phenomena " ) was drastically lowered until " Clear " no longer means >>>> anything. >>>> Once one attests to being " Clear, " one is no better off than >>>> before the tens >>>> of thousands of dollars were spent. >>>> >>>> These days it is the high Operating Thetan levels that are sold as >>>> being >>>> equal to what " Clear " was 30 years ago--- after reaching OT level >>>> 8, and >>>> spending around $400,000, one then has the powers and abilities of >>>> a god. (I >>>> should also point out the obvious: no one who has purchased OT8 >>>> and attested >>>> to OT 8 has ever achieved those powers and abilities.) >> I wouldn't be so sure of that! >> >> I would think everyone would have the same powers of the God he's >> always been. He can create, destroy, label... > > [fcb] Well, I wouldn't be so sure of that. He can create and > destroy. Is > that really true? Can he even function independent of his thoughts? > In my > experience, " he " can't, and if he can't then who is doing the > creating? > Whomever it is, it's probably not " him. " > > " No one controls their thoughts, though some tell the story that > they do. " > -Byron And do you also know what she is saying about creation? Something along the lines: The thought " I " comes up, and I believe it. Then the tought " I am " comes up and marries the first one. Then " I am women " - a child is born... That way, a whole world is created. No one seems to control his thoughts. And creation works by trying to keep them. And I'd go with: yes, everyone functions independent of his thoughts. I do what I do, whether I think or not. >>>> So if you wish to buy Scientology enough to " go Clear, " you are >>>> looking at >>>> about $10,000 minimum. >>> If you wish to support Scientology Roslyn, I have no objection. >>> Personally I >>> don't place credence in a " church " which would withhold " spiritual >>> truth " >>> from those who aren't willing or able to give the " church " >>> $400,000. But, >>> obviously, there is a place for them in this world. -frank >> That's of course because you know that no one can withhold anything >> from you. > [fcb] It can only seem so if I get confused about who I am. Wow, you know who you are! Interesting! And yet you meet yourself every day new, don't you? >> Especially not " spiritual truth " ! ,-) > [fcb] It appears that the only one who can withhold spiritual truth > from me > is me, but then that is both ludicrous and laughable. For me it's like: I can keep me from the awareness of knowing. It's distraction. > Once when sitting with Jeannie Zandi I realized and spoke " My mind > is never > going to get it, is it? " She shook her head knowingly. Right. And eventually you'll find one of the gaps the mind leaves. > " Life's but a walking shadow, > a poor player, that struts and frets > his hour upon the stage > and then is heard no more; > it is a tale told by an idiot, > full of sound and fury, > signifying nothing. " > > ~ Shakespeare Beautiful. Thank you . Love, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 30, 2007 Report Share Posted September 30, 2007 frank.. my husband agrees with you.. im sure you know scientologys argument is that if it were free people wouldnt value it and the tech would be lost.. in sloppy auditing. Im not going back.. but i do feel it is a good group and i hope their claims are true. and the planet does get cleared. actually reading their stuff gives me hope.. for the future. its one of the few groups around i feel is making a difference i guess thats my story..and i want to believe it. love, roslyn > > Sorry Roslyn, I hadn't seen your email to me until I read down in this one. > As far as ethics it doesn't seem ethical to publish a very expensive library > and then tell people once they bought it that it was defective and they > needed to buy another. Imagine an encyclopedia company saying " Oh, by the > way those encyclopedias we've been selling for the past 20 years are filled > with falsified reports and mistruths. You should throw them away and come > buy a new set at full price. " People would have a hissy fit. I don't see > where this is any different. > > > > And, as someone who did a few thousand dollars worth of " auditing " back in > the mid 80's, my experience of it was not akin to The Work. If I got > anything of value from my auditing I'm not aware of it, and I went to the > level they call " Clear. " > > > > Here's an article I found on the web about the costs of Scientology. > > Expert: Rice > Date: 4/14/2006 > > > > Question > How much does it cost to get to clear? > > Answer > The answer to your question is " It depends. " Scientology sells their " Clear " > process for a fixed fee, but they also require their customers to purchase > many other processes before and after " Clear. " The base price is around > $6,000 but with the additional price of " auditing " and " rundowns " a customer > can easily spend $15,000 to finally " attest to Clear. " > > " Clear " is nothing like what it used to be. 30 years ago anyone who was > " Clear " was told they would have the powers and abilities of a god; when > that clearly was not the case, many customers got irate and stopped buying > any more Scientology. So the goals of being " Clear " (called the " end > phenomena " ) was drastically lowered until " Clear " no longer means anything. > Once one attests to being " Clear, " one is no better off than before the tens > of thousands of dollars were spent. > > These days it is the high Operating Thetan levels that are sold as being > equal to what " Clear " was 30 years ago--- after reaching OT level 8, and > spending around $400,000, one then has the powers and abilities of a god. (I > should also point out the obvious: no one who has purchased OT8 and attested > to OT 8 has ever achieved those powers and abilities.) > > So if you wish to buy Scientology enough to " go Clear, " you are looking at > about $10,000 minimum. > > > > If you wish to support Scientology Roslyn, I have no objection. Personally I > don't place credence in a " church " which would withhold " spiritual truth " > from those who aren't willing or able to give the " church " $400,000. But, > obviously, there is a place for them in this world. -frank > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 3, 2007 Report Share Posted October 3, 2007 one arguement was the building was destroyed from the inside... how does that prove who did it or not..?? And how do they destroy beams in an already constructed building.. without people noticing something? I do think things are fishy but i dont know how Just like kennedys assaisination and even the explosion in oklahoma. what would be that guys motivation? unless he was set up as a patsy to take the blame.. what if mcvey just thought the truck blowing up was a distraction for some other operation.. and didnt know the building would be destoyed with it. i dont get it either but where does ben laden fit in all this.. ? i wonder if we will ever know time will tell i suppose. watching that war series on pbs makes me think how futile it all is.. just people dying and starving one would think we would of evolved more by now. How is it better people dont beleive your argument on 9-11 how would it be better if they did.. ? Id like to believe we had an ethical government. its better than some. I suppose money is behind it some how.. but why and how. I wonder if they thought the iraq war would be a piece of cake.. and they would easily get oil.. i dont know.? im just glad i believe in reincarnation and those poeple will be back. I also think bush is taking orders and just plays along.. oh well maybe its all happening perfectly as people say. Also i know of many scientologists who are not wealthy. so i dont get that argument. What about the sea org ? roslyn In Loving-what-is , " Carson Boyd " wrote: > > Roslyn said. > > frank.. my husband agrees with you.. > > im sure you know scientologys argument is that if it were free > people wouldnt value it and the tech would be lost.. > in sloppy auditing. > > [fcb] Yeah. It's a weak argument when you " hold hostage " spiritual freedom > from all who can't pay $400,000. Besides, using that logic, why not make it > a million dollars? That will make it even more valuable. Why not ten > million? > > Im not going back.. but i do feel it is a good group > and i hope their claims are true. > and the planet does get cleared. > > actually reading their stuff gives me hope.. for the future. > > its one of the few groups around i feel is making a difference > > i guess thats my story..and i want to believe it. love, roslyn > > [fcb] I understand Roslyn. You know, I'm beginning to give up on human > beings making rational choices. It seems it was irrational of me to ever > believe in or expect such. Having become involved in the 9/11 Truth Movement > I have encountered many people who literally aren't interested in evidence > or facts. They have made up their minds and evidence to the contrary is not > only unwelcome but then justification for ad hominem attacks. I'm shocked at > the number of people I run into who are too lazy to think for themselves. > > -frank > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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