Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

[Guest guest]

I would demand a placement with English speaking peers!!Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 10:37 AMTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy ; IEP_guide ; KatyAutismSupport Subject: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? my son who will go into 1st grade in the fall is going into a esl classroom i just found out yesterday. the principal made it sound like this would be good for my son as the teacher will need to talk slower and repeat directiins more often forthe esl kids. imam not sure if this is the appropriate placement for my son who has pragmatic language issues. i think this environment could inhibit his progress as he wont be among as many typical ENGLISH speaking peers to work on his communication defecits. im sure the teacher is fine its just the other kids and their language skills i am concerned with affecting him progressing in this setting. he has no friends as it is so how can they expect him to make friends with kids who dont speak any or litttle english? any advice? Sent from my iPhoneReply to sender | Reply to group | [The entire original message is not included]

[Guest guest]

This is a highly inappropriate placement and will fail to meet your child's " unique needs. "   Your child needs to be around normally speaking children as much as possible -- especially around girls as they develop speech faster and talk more.

Do not allow this.  I was an ESL teacher in the public school system, and they often used it as a dumping ground for children with disabilities.  Once they sent a deaf child to be in my class.  Disaster.  That ESL teacher is most probably in no way certified to teach a child with special needs. This is a clear sign they are just looking for a cheap way out.  I believe this placement is against the law and would constitute a denial of FAPE.  I would NEVER allow this placement.

Sincerely,HavenParent Advocate

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much for this post because this is EXACTLY where they are trying to put Skilynn!! I just sent principal an email stating NO WAY (:Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:45:56 -0500To: <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? This is a highly inappropriate placement and will fail to meet your child's " unique needs. "   Your child needs to be around normally speaking children as much as possible -- especially around girls as they develop speech faster and talk more.Do not allow this.  I was an ESL teacher in the public school system, and they often used it as a dumping ground for children with disabilities.  Once they sent a deaf child to be in my class.  Disaster.  That ESL teacher is most probably in no way certified to teach a child with special needs. This is a clear sign they are just looking for a cheap way out.  I believe this placement is against the law and would constitute a denial of FAPE.  I would NEVER allow this placement.Sincerely,HavenParent Advocate

[Guest guest]

If they insist on an ESL placement you need to report it to TEA and or the OCR.  this is NOT the laws definition of an appropriate placement for these children and there needs cannot be met in an ESL class. Dang, this makes me mad!

[Guest guest]

Haven.....you have NO IDEA how much you help advocate for our kids. You go over and beyond and for that you our my HERO! Thank you so much!!!!! It was put to me as the ESL teacher would be better and have better understanding of teaching different! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 17:53:27 -0500To: <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? If they insist on an ESL placement you need to report it to TEA and or the OCR.  this is NOT the laws definition of an appropriate placement for these children and there needs cannot be met in an ESL class. Dang, this makes me mad!

[Guest guest]

Yeah, she has a better understanding of teaching English to speakers of other languages NOT teaching children who have autism.  they are two very different things and I was an ESL teacher.  I am sure when the ESL teacher finds out she is going to freak inside but won't say anything becasue of course her job is on the line.  but of course she will not know anything about teaching a child with autism any more than I knew about the deaf child they put in my ESL class

This was before IDEA, and they NEVER gave us any training about teaching special or content mastery students in our classes.  It was easy to follow the modifications for the ocntent mastery children, but having a deaf child in my class was rough, and of course, he was very frustrated.

So one day during class, all of a sudden he freaks out!  He starts trying to scream and he starts throwing desks across the room, and the rest of the class runs and gets behind me, and I tell one student to run and get help -- that we needed help immediately as this child had gone berserk.

I am tying to clam this child down and trying to protect the other kids.  The kid I sent to the office for help comes back and says, " They said to tell you they are eating their lunch right now. "   Can you believe it?

The def child is proceeding to tear the classroom apart and my other students are scared.  I said, " I tell you what, you go back and tell them they had better get help in here now, or I am going home!Finally got some help, but then what they did was they called a meeting with his parents, and their recommendation was to just let the kid drop out of school!  Because after all their thinking is that he is deaf and can't learn -- right?  I was disgusted.  I don't know if there were any contracted schools for the deaf with the state at that time (it was in the eighties), but I have seen how easily administrators just want to throw special needs kids away.

This was in East Dallas.  Then finally I go the transfer ot Sunset, and I will say they did a better job with these kids there.  many kids had their own aide and I saw a lot more caring there, so I was happy about that.  but remember, in the eighties we didn't see any kids with autism.  Sunset had almost 2300 students at the time, so if there was this big set of undiagnosed kids with autism, where were they?

The answer was they didn't exist.  We had kids with ADD and ADHD but we didn't see autism. Still, I knew there was a serious lack of training for us as educators for the kids we did have.  It was all pretty much OSFA, but that was before IDEA.

[Guest guest]

In NO WAY is this appropriate. You need to hire an advocate or call TEAM partners or another parent advocacy group in your area. The principal is trying to cover the fact that the other first grade teachers may not be up to speed. You need to ask IN WRITING for the principal to provide IN WRITING the esl’s teacher’s training for teaching a child with autism. S.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Posted by: " Lorree " spacemom1@... Wed Jun 8, 2011 8:38 am (PDT) my son who will go into 1st grade in the fall is going into a esl classroom i just found out yesterday. the principal made it sound like this would be good for my son as the teacher will need to talk slower and repeat directiins more often forthe esl kids. imam not sure if this is the appropriate placement for my son who has pragmatic language issues.

[Guest guest]

,No way are we going to let them do this to your kid.  whatever help you need.There has got to be a way to attend some of these ARDS with you guys via Skype.  See if they have Skype capability.  I've had some be at mine via speaker phone.  Whatever you have to do.

What district is this again?You know, I am to the point where I believe each child with autism needs the following: IEP goals and objectives for reading, writing math, social skills, speech, OT, and PT if warranted (but getting them to provide PT is tough).  But I know Ethan has been finally getting this is home school and it has made a world of difference.  Being able to control his body and make it do some of the things the NT kids do has given him so much confidence.  I acctually think PT has helped more than OT.

It irks me at how many schools have our kids participate in " Field Day " each year, but they do not provide the PT for them to be successful at this interaction with their peers.  I can see removing them from this when year after year these kids come in last, and these people think it doesn't hurt them?  Our kids aren't dumb and they FEEL it and they want to be able to " win " once in a while.  they can't do this if they are not taught these physical skills.

Anyway, For academics they do need about two hours  at least two to three times a week where there is one on one preferably with an RPM trained tutor.  A social skills class could be integrated into speech easily, I think.

There is no way a child with ASD is going to be able to have their unique needs met in an ESL class.  It blows my mind they actually think so. But the truth is, they know it won't but they want to see if they can get away with it. 

I'd love to see a written report by them explaining how they think this is " appropriate. " You all know that TEXAS has been determined to " need assistance " regarding the IDEA.  Well, here is just another example as to why.

And when your districts mouth off about how they are " exemplary " and " recognized " schools, please remind them that they are in a state that is 38th out of fifty for NT kids and 49th out of fifty for  special needs kid and when they are int he top ten then they can brag but not before.

[Guest guest]

I have taught ESL for 12 of the 17 years I have taught either 1st or 2nd grade. I teach ONLY in English & my students speak only in English in the classroom setting unless I am communicating with Spanish-speaking parents during conferences. I have always had non-ESL students in my classes who have thrived in this environment. And yes, I have had kids on the spectrum as well as "G/T" & inclusion students in my room as well. I use the same techniques & the same curriculum as other teachers on my grade level as well as ESL techniques which in my opinion help both my ESL & non-ESL students strive academically & socially & enhance the instruction they receive. I have had anywhere between 3 or 4 ESL students in a class up to 11-13 out of the entire class. I don't feel that those students detract from the instruction my Non-ESL students receive in any way. When ESL classes are formed, in my experience, the teachers in the grade-level before worked hard to ensure that the ESL classes were wel-balanced with good language models as well. The students in my class also seem to benefit with an increased cultural sensitivity by being included with students of various ethnic backgrounds as well. Our students in the entire grade level are measured using the same assessments unless their IEP indicates otherwise. As a side note, our district is moving toward ESL endorsements as a requirement for all teachers so every teacher is qualified to teach ESL students & eventually I'm assuming so every class will have ESL students which is more reflective of our higher education & learning institutions.As a side note, I wanted to clarify that ESL is NOT the same as bilingual or dual-language instruction in the district I teach in. A lot of people confuse or assume it is the same method of instruction, which it is not. On these situations where those terms are being used interchangeably, that is not correct. Lastly, I would like to add that If the class is a Bilingual Classroom or Dual-Language classroom, I do see a need for concern for our students & children who are language-delayed. In addition, every district, campus, & obviously teacher differs from one another so how an ESL class is formed or taught will obviously vary dependent on the situation...Sent from my iPhone

Thank you so much for this post because this is EXACTLY where they are trying to put Skilynn!! I just sent principal an email stating NO WAY (:Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:45:56 -0500To: <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

This is a highly inappropriate placement and will fail to meet your child's "unique needs." Your child needs to be around normally speaking children as much as possible -- especially around girls as they develop speech faster and talk more.

Do not allow this. I was an ESL teacher in the public school system, and they often used it as a dumping ground for children with disabilities. Once they sent a deaf child to be in my class. Disaster. That ESL teacher is most probably in no way certified to teach a child with special needs. This is a clear sign they are just looking for a cheap way out. I believe this placement is against the law and would constitute a denial of FAPE. I would NEVER allow this placement.

Sincerely,HavenParent Advocate

[Guest guest]

My daughter is 7 with autism and attends private speech 3 X week. She has severe expressive/receptive language delay with being in the less then 1 percentile. She needs to be in a classroom with MOSTLY FLUENT ENGLISH speaking students in order to make progression in the area of language and communication. She graduated Kindergarten with 90% hispanics!Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 03:34:46 -0500To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? I have taught ESL for 12 of the 17 years I have taught either 1st or 2nd grade. I teach ONLY in English & my students speak only in English in the classroom setting unless I am communicating with Spanish-speaking parents during conferences. I have always had non-ESL students in my classes who have thrived in this environment. And yes, I have had kids on the spectrum as well as "G/T" & inclusion students in my room as well. I use the same techniques & the same curriculum as other teachers on my grade level as well as ESL techniques which in my opinion help both my ESL & non-ESL students strive academically & socially & enhance the instruction they receive. I have had anywhere between 3 or 4 ESL students in a class up to 11-13 out of the entire class. I don't feel that those students detract from the instruction my Non-ESL students receive in any way. When ESL classes are formed, in my experience, the teachers in the grade-level before worked hard to ensure that the ESL classes were wel-balanced with good language models as well. The students in my class also seem to benefit with an increased cultural sensitivity by being included with students of various ethnic backgrounds as well. Our students in the entire grade level are measured using the same assessments unless their IEP indicates otherwise. As a side note, our district is moving toward ESL endorsements as a requirement for all teachers so every teacher is qualified to teach ESL students & eventually I'm assuming so every class will have ESL students which is more reflective of our higher education & learning institutions.As a side note, I wanted to clarify that ESL is NOT the same as bilingual or dual-language instruction in the district I teach in. A lot of people confuse or assume it is the same method of instruction, which it is not. On these situations where those terms are being used inter!changeably, that is not correct. Lastly, I would like to add that If the class is a Bilingual Classroom or Dual-Language classroom, I do see a need for concern for our students & children who are language-delayed. In addition, every district, campus, & obviously teacher differs from one another so how an ESL class is formed or taught will obviously vary dependent on the situation...Sent from my iPhone Thank you so much for this post because this is EXACTLY where they are trying to put Skilynn!! I just sent principal an email stating NO WAY (:Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:45:56 -0500To: <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? This is a highly inappropriate placement and will fail to meet your child's "unique needs." Your child needs to be around normally speaking children as much as possible -- especially around girls as they develop speech faster and talk more.Do not allow this. I was an ESL teacher in the public school system, and they often used it as a dumping ground for children with disabilities. Once they sent a deaf child to be in my class. Disaster. That ESL teacher is most probably in no way certified to teach a child with special needs. This is a clear sign they are just looking for a cheap way out. I believe this placement is against the law and would constitute a denial of FAPE. I would NEVER allow this placement.Sincerely,HavenParent Advocate

[Guest guest]

What is the difference from an ESL class and a dual-language class? From what I understand ...in Dual-Language....they teach in English one day and the the next in English for core subjects. Our school is 90% hispanic so no matter what class she's in she will be minority so what should I do? This is FREAKIN CRAZY! The district already doesn't know how to teach her!!!!Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 21:56:29 -0500To: <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? Yeah, she has a better understanding of teaching English to speakers of other languages NOT teaching children who have autism.  they are two very different things and I was an ESL teacher.  I am sure when the ESL teacher finds out she is going to freak inside but won't say anything becasue of course her job is on the line.  but of course she will not know anything about teaching a child with autism any more than I knew about the deaf child they put in my ESL classThis was before IDEA, and they NEVER gave us any training about teaching special or content mastery students in our classes.  It was easy to follow the modifications for the ocntent mastery children, but having a deaf child in my class was rough, and of course, he was very frustrated.So one day during class, all of a sudden he freaks out!  He starts trying to scream and he starts throwing desks across the room, and the rest of the class runs and gets behind me, and I tell one student to run and get help -- that we needed help immediately as this child had gone berserk.I am tying to clam this child down and trying to protect the other kids.  The kid I sent to the office for help comes back and says, " They said to tell you they are eating their lunch right now. "   Can you believe it?The def child is proceeding to tear the classroom apart and my other students are scared.  I said, " I tell you what, you go back and tell them they had better get help in here now, or I am going home!Finally got some help, but then what they did was they called a meeting with his parents, and their recommendation was to just let the kid drop out of school!  Because after all their thinking is that he is deaf and can't learn -- right?  I was disgusted.  I don't know if there were any contracted schools for the deaf with the state at that time (it was in the eighties), but I have seen how easily administrators just want to throw special needs kids away.This was in East Dallas.  Then finally I go the transfer ot Sunset, and I will say they did a better job with these kids there.  many kids had their own aide and I saw a lot more caring there, so I was happy about that.  but remember, in the eighties we didn't see any kids with autism.  Sunset had almost 2300 students at the time, so if there was this big set of undiagnosed kids with autism, where were they?The answer was they didn't exist.  We had kids with ADD and ADHD but we didn't see autism. Still, I knew there was a serious lack of training for us as educators for the kids we did have.  It was all pretty much OSFA, but that was before IDEA.

[Guest guest]

In my district I often see the ESL teachers speaking in spanish to the students. While my daughter is fluent in her language, she really needs good role models for her to learn pragmatics in ENGLISH!! I don't want her confused with another language and she certainly doesn't need any help with the confusion she faces each and every day! An ESL classroom placement for a child who primarily speaks English at home (especially those that don't speak another language whatsoever) is inappropriate and it is sad that a principal or anyone would think that it is ok. I could see a NT child going in to such a classroom if their parent was wanting them to learn a new language and they could be used as a good example, however I won't let my NT daughter go into such an

environment either, she needs to be where she can make friends and learn in her own language where it is the official language of the country. Placing a spectrum child in an ESL classroom would be horribly confusing to the child, and further make their situation worse!

Carolyn

To: TEXAS AUTISM <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2011 6:40 AMSubject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

My daughter is 7 with autism and attends private speech 3 X week. She has severe expressive/receptive language delay with being in the less then 1 percentile. She needs to be in a classroom with MOSTLY FLUENT ENGLISH speaking students in order to make progression in the area of language and communication. She graduated Kindergarten with 90% hispanics!

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 03:34:46 -0500

To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >

ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

I have taught ESL for 12 of the 17 years I have taught either 1st or 2nd grade. I teach ONLY in English & my students speak only in English in the classroom setting unless I am communicating with Spanish-speaking parents during conferences. I have always had non-ESL students in my classes who have thrived in this environment. And yes, I have had kids on the spectrum as well as "G/T" & inclusion students in my room as well. I use the same techniques & the same curriculum as other teachers on my grade level as well as ESL techniques which in my opinion help both my ESL & non-ESL students strive academically & socially & enhance the instruction they receive.

I have had anywhere between 3 or 4 ESL students in a class up to 11-13 out of the entire class. I don't feel that those students detract from the instruction my Non-ESL students receive in any way. When ESL classes are formed, in my experience, the teachers in the grade-level before worked hard to ensure that the ESL classes were wel-balanced with good language models as well. The students in my class also seem to benefit with an increased cultural sensitivity by being included with students of various ethnic backgrounds as well. Our students in the entire grade level are measured using the same assessments unless their IEP indicates otherwise. As a side note, our district is moving toward ESL endorsements as a requirement for all teachers so every teacher is qualified to teach ESL students & eventually I'm assuming so every class will have ESL students which is more reflective of our higher education & learning

institutions.

As a side note, I wanted to clarify that ESL is NOT the same as bilingual or dual-language instruction in the district I teach in. A lot of people confuse or assume it is the same method of instruction, which it is not. On these situations where those terms are being used inter! changeably, that is not correct.

Lastly, I would like to add that If the class is a Bilingual Classroom or Dual-Language classroom, I do see a need for concern for our students & children who are language-delayed. In addition, every district, campus, & obviously teacher differs from one another so how an ESL class is formed or taught will obviously vary dependent on the situation...

Sent from my iPhone

Thank you so much for this post because this is EXACTLY where they are trying to put Skilynn!! I just sent principal an email stating NO WAY (:

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:45:56 -0500

To: <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >

ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

This is a highly inappropriate placement and will fail to meet your child's "unique needs." Your child needs to be around normally speaking children as much as possible -- especially around girls as they develop speech faster and talk more.Do not allow this. I was an ESL teacher in the public school system, and they often used it as a dumping ground for children with disabilities. Once they sent a deaf child to be in my class. Disaster. That ESL teacher is most probably in no way certified to teach a child with special needs. This is a clear sign they are just looking for a cheap way out. I believe this placement is against the law and would constitute a denial of FAPE. I would NEVER allow this placement.Sincerely,HavenParent Advocate

[Guest guest]

They are also talking About putting my daughter in a dual language 1st grade class. They say she won't be in there for core classes anyhow! I'm so confused!Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerrySender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 06:01:55 -0700 (PDT)To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? In my district I often see the ESL teachers speaking in spanish to the students. While my daughter is fluent in her language, she really needs good role models for her to learn pragmatics in ENGLISH!! I don't want her confused with another language and she certainly doesn't need any help with the confusion she faces each and every day! An ESL classroom placement for a child who primarily speaks English at home (especially those that don't speak another language whatsoever) is inappropriate and it is sad that a principal or anyone would think that it is ok. I could see a NT child going in to such a classroom if their parent was wanting them to learn a new language and they could be used as a good example, however I won't let my NT daughter go into such anenvironment either, she needs to be where she can make friends and learn in her own language where it is the official language of the country. Placing a spectrum child in an ESL classroom would be horribly confusing to the child, and further make their situation worse!CarolynTo: TEXAS AUTISM <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2011 6:40 AMSubject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? My daughter is 7 with autism and attends private speech 3 X week. She has severe expressive/receptive language delay with being in the less then 1 percentile. She needs to be in a classroom with MOSTLY FLUENT ENGLISH speaking students in order to make progression in the area of language and communication. She graduated Kindergarten with 90% hispanics!Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Sender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 03:34:46 -0500To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? I have taught ESL for 12 of the 17 years I have taught either 1st or 2nd grade. I teach ONLY in English & my students speak only in English in the classroom setting unless I am communicating with Spanish-speaking parents during conferences. I have always had non-ESL students in my classes who have thrived in this environment. And yes, I have had kids on the spectrum as well as "G/T" & inclusion students in my room as well. I use the same techniques & the same curriculum as other teachers on my grade level as well as ESL techniques which in my opinion help both my ESL & non-ESL students strive academically & socially & enhance the instruction they receive. I have had anywhere between 3 or 4 ESL students in a class up to 11-13 out of the entire class. I don't feel that those students detract from the instruction my Non-ESL students receive in any way. When ESL classes are formed, in my experience, the teachers in the grade-level before worked hard to ensure that the ESL classes were wel-balanced with good language models as well. The students in my class also seem to benefit with an increased cultural sensitivity by being included with students of various ethnic backgrounds as well. Our students in the entire grade level are measured using the same assessments unless their IEP indicates otherwise. As a side note, our district is moving toward ESL endorsements as a requirement for all teachers so every teacher is qualified to teach ESL students & eventually I'm assuming so every class will have ESL students which is more reflective of our higher education & learninginstitutions.As a side note, I wanted to clarify that ESL is NOT the same as bilingual or dual-language instruction in the district I teach in. A lot of people confuse or assume it is the same method of instruction, which it is not. On these situations where those terms are being used inter! changeably, that is not correct. Lastly, I would like to add that If the class is a Bilingual Classroom or Dual-Language classroom, I do see a need for concern for our students & children who are language-delayed. In addition, every district, campus, & obviously teacher differs from one another so how an ESL class is formed or taught will obviously vary dependent on the situation...Sent from my iPhone Thank you so much for this post because this is EXACTLY where they are trying to put Skilynn!! I just sent principal an email stating NO WAY (:Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry Sender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:45:56 -0500To: <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? This is a highly inappropriate placement and will fail to meet your child's "unique needs." Your child needs to be around normally speaking children as much as possible -- especially around girls as they develop speech faster and talk more.Do not allow this. I was an ESL teacher in the public school system, and they often used it as a dumping ground for children with disabilities. Once they sent a deaf child to be in my class. Disaster. That ESL teacher is most probably in no way certified to teach a child with special needs. This is a clear sign they are just looking for a cheap way out. I believe this placement is against the law and would constitute a denial of FAPE. I would NEVER allow this placement.Sincerely,HavenParent Advocate

[Guest guest]

Honestly, I would probably tell them that I wanted my daughter to learn the English language and pragmatics for the English language first, and once they had helped her master that, then we could discuss the second language....

Carolyn

To: TEXAS AUTISM <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2011 8:33 AMSubject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

They are also talking About putting my daughter in a dual language 1st grade class. They say she won't be in there for core classes anyhow! I'm so confused!

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 06:01:55 -0700 (PDT)

To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >

ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

In my district I often see the ESL teachers speaking in spanish to the students. While my daughter is fluent in her language, she really needs good role models for her to learn pragmatics in ENGLISH!! I don't want her confused with another language and she certainly doesn't need any help with the confusion she faces each and every day! An ESL classroom placement for a child who primarily speaks English at home (especially those that don't speak another language whatsoever) is inappropriate and it is sad that a principal or anyone would think that it is ok. I could see a NT child going in to such a classroom if their parent was wanting them to learn a new language and they could be used as a good example, however I won't let my NT daughter go into such an environment either, she needs to be where she can make friends and learn in her own language where it is the official language of the country. Placing a spectrum

child in an ESL classroom would be horribly confusing to the child, and further make their situation worse!

Carolyn

To: TEXAS AUTISM <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2011 6:40 AMSubject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

My daughter is 7 with autism and attends private speech 3 X week. She has severe expressive/receptive language delay with being in the less then 1 percentile. She needs to be in a classroom with MOSTLY FLUENT ENGLISH speaking students in order to make progression in the area of language and communication. She graduated Kindergarten with 90% hispanics! Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Date: Thu, 9 Jun 2011 03:34:46 -0500

To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >

ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

I have taught ESL for 12 of the 17 years I have taught either 1st or 2nd grade. I teach ONLY in English & my students speak only in English in the classroom setting unless I am communicating with Spanish-speaking parents during conferences. I have always had non-ESL students in my classes who have thrived in this environment. And yes, I have had kids on the spectrum as well as "G/T" & inclusion students in my room as well. I use the same techniques & the same curriculum as other teachers on my grade level as well as ESL techniques which in my opinion help both my ESL & non-ESL students strive academically & socially & enhance the instruction they receive.

I have had anywhere between 3 or 4 ESL students in a class up to 11-13 out of the entire class. I don't feel that those students detract from the instruction my Non-ESL students receive in any way. When ESL classes are formed, in my experience, the teachers in the grade-level before worked hard to ensure that the ESL classes were wel-balanced with good language models as well. The students in my class also seem to benefit with an increased cultural sensitivity by being included with students of various ethnic backgrounds as well. Our students in the entire grade level are measured using the same assessments unless their IEP indicates otherwise. As a side note, our district is moving toward ESL endorsements as a requirement for all teachers so every teacher is qualified to teach ESL students & eventually I'm assuming so every class will have ESL students which is more reflective of our higher education & learning

institutions.

As a side note, I wanted to clarify that ESL is NOT the same as bilingual or dual-language instruction in the district I teach in. A lot of people confuse or assume it is the same method of instruction, which it is not. On these situations where those terms are being used inter! changeably, that is not correct.

Lastly, I would like to add that If the class is a Bilingual Classroom or Dual-Language classroom, I do see a need for concern for our students & children who are language-delayed. In addition, every district, campus, & obviously teacher differs from one another so how an ESL class is formed or taught will obviously vary dependent on the situation...

Sent from my iPhone

Thank you so much for this post because this is EXACTLY where they are trying to put Skilynn!! I just sent principal an email stating NO WAY (:

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

Sender: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2011 16:45:56 -0500

To: <Texas-Autism-Advocacy >

ReplyTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

This is a highly inappropriate placement and will fail to meet your child's "unique needs." Your child needs to be around normally speaking children as much as possible -- especially around girls as they develop speech faster and talk more.Do not allow this. I was an ESL teacher in the public school system, and they often used it as a dumping ground for children with disabilities. Once they sent a deaf child to be in my class. Disaster. That ESL teacher is most probably in no way certified to teach a child with special needs. This is a clear sign they are just looking for a cheap way out. I believe this placement is against the law and would constitute a denial of FAPE. I would NEVER allow this placement.Sincerely,HavenParent Advocate

[Guest guest]

is this email to me or another? i am in a suburb of houston. Sent from my iPhone

,No way are we going to let them do this to your kid. whatever help you need.There has got to be a way to attend some of these ARDS with you guys via Skype. See if they have Skype capability. I've had some be at mine via speaker phone. Whatever you have to do.

What district is this again?You know, I am to the point where I believe each child with autism needs the following: IEP goals and objectives for reading, writing math, social skills, speech, OT, and PT if warranted (but getting them to provide PT is tough). But I know Ethan has been finally getting this is home school and it has made a world of difference. Being able to control his body and make it do some of the things the NT kids do has given him so much confidence. I acctually think PT has helped more than OT.

It irks me at how many schools have our kids participate in "Field Day" each year, but they do not provide the PT for them to be successful at this interaction with their peers. I can see removing them from this when year after year these kids come in last, and these people think it doesn't hurt them? Our kids aren't dumb and they FEEL it and they want to be able to "win" once in a while. they can't do this if they are not taught these physical skills.

Anyway, For academics they do need about two hours at least two to three times a week where there is one on one preferably with an RPM trained tutor. A social skills class could be integrated into speech easily, I think.

There is no way a child with ASD is going to be able to have their unique needs met in an ESL class. It blows my mind they actually think so. But the truth is, they know it won't but they want to see if they can get away with it.

I'd love to see a written report by them explaining how they think this is "appropriate."You all know that TEXAS has been determined to "need assistance" regarding the IDEA. Well, here is just another example as to why.

And when your districts mouth off about how they are "exemplary" and "recognized" schools, please remind them that they are in a state that is 38th out of fifty for NT kids and 49th out of fifty for special needs kid and when they are int he top ten then they can brag but not before.

[Guest guest]

" I could see a NT child going in to such a classroom if their parent was wanting

them to learn a new language and they could be used as a good example, however I

won't let my NT daughter go into such an environment either, she needs to be

where she can make friends and learn in her own language where it is the

official language of the country. "

I just wanted to clarify that there is no " official language " of the United

States. Most people in the U.S. speak English, but it's not the official

language.

It's entirely possible that the ESL teacher could be dual-certified in Special

Education and teaching English as a Second Language. The only way to know is to

ask for specifics about the teacher.

[Guest guest]

I apologize, there is no official language of the United States, however I would love you to find a governmental agency who is using Spanish or any other language as a precedent within the United States. It appears as if almost all, if not all, governmental documents have been written in English, and while many people within governmental agencies may speak another language they are almost always required to speak English in order to work there. I have never walked into a school that the receptionist and teachers did not speak english, I have never worked anywhere that English was not considered the official language of the hospital. In fact, there have been many times where coworkers who were speaking in their native tongue were asked to refrain unless they were in the break room. The only place I have ever been that they didn't speak English is fast food restaurants.

Again, I have respect for those teachers that teach ESL and work hard to help those children whom need the assistance to learn English, however for me and my family that is not the right placement. I want my PDD-NOS child to learn to speak fluently and appropriately in English (as that is what we speak at home) and then when we master that we can think about going to another language....

Carolyn

To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2011 3:27 PMSubject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate?

"I could see a NT child going in to such a classroom if their parent was wanting them to learn a new language and they could be used as a good example, however I won't let my NT daughter go into such an environment either, she needs to be where she can make friends and learn in her own language where it is the official language of the country."I just wanted to clarify that there is no "official language" of the United States. Most people in the U.S. speak English, but it's not the official language.It's entirely possible that the ESL teacher could be dual-certified in Special Education and teaching English as a Second Language. The only way to know is to ask for specifics about the teacher.

[Guest guest]

ESL classes are for children whose first language is NOT English.  We never said or thought it was dual language room.  I was an ESL teacher, so I know how it goes.  You did not say if you were certified special ed.  I am sure doesn't know if the teacher they are planning to put her child with is special ed.  A parent has a right to know (and ask to see the certificates).  A parent has a right to know if the person teaching their child is qualified to teach regarding the child's disability.  I am sick to death of so many thinking they are qualified to teach a child with autism.

Your class you describes sounds like OSFA whether the child is ESL or has autism, and that would be against the law.  It would be more interesting to hear how you implemented and taught a child's unique IEP while meeting the needs of the other children, as well.  How would you track this child's progress to provide to the parents that you did indeed implement the IEP?

Special needs children each have a unique IEP designed for them and them alone, and it is difficult at best to see it being implemented properly in an ESL classroom.  As a parent I would want to know and see evidence of how much training you had in the areas of autism and auditory processing disorder.  I would never find an ESL room an appropriate setting for my child either.  I have seen first hand how this is becoming a dumping ground for placing kids when they don't want to provide an appropriate placement.

It is really funny that you have to have an endorsement to teach speakers of other languages, but any old special ed certificate qualifies a teacher to " teach " children with autism when the way they learn and how much they can achieve in the presence of appropriate programs is vastly different than ESL or other special needs circumstances.

I long for the day when those who teach children with autism MUST have an autism endorsement to do so and and at least a six hour endorsement in auditory processing disorder.How would you be accountable to the IEP in your ESL room?  You have a lesson plan for your ESL kids who are not special ed, but the others have one that is very different from  the plans you have and the course of study -- so do you just teach it to all and then what-- how do you justify the grades for the ASD child regarding his IEP?  When do you plan to get to his/her objectives?  In this environment A LOT of the ASD child's objectives are going to be put off or not covered at all because you will be busy teaching the TAKS skills to the ESL kids.  So a lot of the ASD child's academic time is going to be wasted teaching things that are not on his IEP.  Remember that an ASD child's IEP objectives do not have to be correlated to TAKS but designed to meet the child's unique needs, but you will be busy making lesson plans and teaching to the state required skills FOR THAT CLASS.  How did you split your time between the two?

It is against both state and federal laws to teach whatever you want to this child and then just make up grades for objectives you didn't have time to cover with the child.  It would be like trying to teach two courses in one room at the same time.  If you have two SE kids under the IDEA, then you are juggling three courses.  You are required by law to keep track of all the opportunities you give regarding each objective on that child's IEP.  You have to justify the IEP progress grades in a substantive way, and if you can't justify them, then that is a crime punishable with up to five years imprisonment if the parents keep track of it (and I hope they do).  For a special needs child you should be covering ONLY what is on that child's IEP and not wasting time with other stuff.

No wonder Texas is 49th in the nation.  No wonder why 67% of these children are still unemployed one year after graduation.  No wonder 37% of these children wind up in the prison system within five years of leaving high school.  Stop perpetuating the insanity.  This is the same old same old, and it doesn't work for these children.  Texas is in BIG trouble with the US DOE, and I for one wish they would come in and take over because Texas is failing these kids. Teachers have to stop being part of the problem.  The law guarantees you the right to stand up for these children without fear of losing your job, so if you really want to help these kids, advocate for them to be in a setting where their IEP is followed and taught and their educational time is not wasted.

So it is NOT an appropriate placement and it should not be done.  And if any parent wants to tell me where this is being done please forward the name of the district to me and I will file a complaint with the OCR myself.  Any tax paying citizen can.  This is absurd.

[Guest guest]

I think this is a matter of funding. They get a lot of money for kids in those types of classrooms. I think in our school district, I saw the money coming from the federal government was twice the amount from special education students. Hilda From: Texas-Autism-Advocacy [mailto:Texas-Autism-Advocacy ] On Behalf Of Haven DeLaySent: Thursday, June 09, 2011 9:50 PMTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? ESL classes are for children whose first language is NOT English. We never said or thought it was dual language room. I was an ESL teacher, so I know how it goes. You did not say if you were certified special ed. I am sure doesn't know if the teacher they are planning to put her child with is special ed. A parent has a right to know (and ask to see the certificates). A parent has a right to know if the person teaching their child is qualified to teach regarding the child's disability. I am sick to death of so many thinking they are qualified to teach a child with autism.Your class you describes sounds like OSFA whether the child is ESL or has autism, and that would be against the law. It would be more interesting to hear how you implemented and taught a child's unique IEP while meeting the needs of the other children, as well. How would you track this child's progress to provide to the parents that you did indeed implement the IEP?Special needs children each have a unique IEP designed for them and them alone, and it is difficult at best to see it being implemented properly in an ESL classroom. As a parent I would want to know and see evidence of how much training you had in the areas of autism and auditory processing disorder. I would never find an ESL room an appropriate setting for my child either. I have seen first hand how this is becoming a dumping ground for placing kids when they don't want to provide an appropriate placement.It is really funny that you have to have an endorsement to teach speakers of other languages, but any old special ed certificate qualifies a teacher to " teach " children with autism when the way they learn and how much they can achieve in the presence of appropriate programs is vastly different than ESL or other special needs circumstances.I long for the day when those who teach children with autism MUST have an autism endorsement to do so and and at least a six hour endorsement in auditory processing disorder.How would you be accountable to the IEP in your ESL room? You have a lesson plan for your ESL kids who are not special ed, but the others have one that is very different from the plans you have and the course of study -- so do you just teach it to all and then what-- how do you justify the grades for the ASD child regarding his IEP? When do you plan to get to his/her objectives? In this environment A LOT of the ASD child's objectives are going to be put off or not covered at all because you will be busy teaching the TAKS skills to the ESL kids. So a lot of the ASD child's academic time is going to be wasted teaching things that are not on his IEP. Remember that an ASD child's IEP objectives do not have to be correlated to TAKS but designed to meet the child's unique needs, but you will be busy making lesson plans and teaching to the state required skills FOR THAT CLASS. How did you split your time between the two?It is against both state and federal laws to teach whatever you want to this child and then just make up grades for objectives you didn't have time to cover with the child. It would be like trying to teach two courses in one room at the same time. If you have two SE kids under the IDEA, then you are juggling three courses. You are required by law to keep track of all the opportunities you give regarding each objective on that child's IEP. You have to justify the IEP progress grades in a substantive way, and if you can't justify them, then that is a crime punishable with up to five years imprisonment if the parents keep track of it (and I hope they do). For a special needs child you should be covering ONLY what is on that child's IEP and not wasting time with other stuff.No wonder Texas is 49th in the nation. No wonder why 67% of these children are still unemployed one year after graduation. No wonder 37% of these children wind up in the prison system within five years of leaving high school. Stop perpetuating the insanity. This is the same old same old, and it doesn't work for these children. Texas is in BIG trouble with the US DOE, and I for one wish they would come in and take over because Texas is failing these kids. Teachers have to stop being part of the problem. The law guarantees you the right to stand up for these children without fear of losing your job, so if you really want to help these kids, advocate for them to be in a setting where their IEP is followed and taught and their educational time is not wasted.So it is NOT an appropriate placement and it should not be done. And if any parent wants to tell me where this is being done please forward the name of the district to me and I will file a complaint with the OCR myself. Any tax paying citizen can. This is absurd.

[Guest guest]

Haven: You are a spitfire (I mean that as a compliment). I agree with everything you said. Want to see our natatorium? They are now complaining it is not BIG enough. http://youtu.be/KZMrIZD9jFI I'm totally in favor of a voucher system. Hilda From: Texas-Autism-Advocacy [mailto:Texas-Autism-Advocacy ] On Behalf Of Haven DeLaySent: Friday, June 10, 2011 2:08 AMTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Subject: Re: Is esl classroom placement appropriate? Hilda,Schools get A LOT of money for special ed kids. Take for example one coop that serviced 350 special needs kids, and in one year the coop got 750,000 additional dollars to service those kids, but there are loop holes in the IDEA and these schools are putting the money into the general fund and then using it for other things like office supplies, mailing, and copies and short changing these kids. They can reroute the money and as long as they can make it look like the special ed kids are getting some use out of it, then they get away with it.The law says they cannot use lack of money to deny these children what is their right under the IDEA -- they can't shirk on appropriate placement.If the money stopped going to the general funds accounts. If all purchase orders and the rest of the books had to be online for parents to see, then a lot of this would have to stop.So when they say they don't have the money (well in the first place it breaks the law when they say that) and then you need to know that they do have the money; they just don't want to spend it on a child with a disability.There are many districts in which the football programs don not make money for the schools -- when you consider how much they have spent on the stadium, the uniforms etc.... but these small districts don't make money on it. Many more prestigious schools place emphasis on academics. The Europeans schools do, the Asian schools do etc... US kids in general are so behind academically and in work ethic mentality.Also consider the maintenance of those stadiums. I think the day is coming where communities are going to have to make tough choices between those programs and putting the money where it is better spent - Academics.When a parent gets told something akin to they don't want to spend the money on an ASD kid because " he's never going to be a doctor. " Yet they spend tons of money on sports programs, and how many ever make it to the pros? It's along shot - meddle in the haystack but they justify that spending? Texas is failing the NT kids as well -- brag about being " exemplary " in a state that ranks 38 out of fifty? There is nothing to brag about.These schools in Texas spent roughly 58 MILLION dollars of the taxpayers money over the last few years in LEGAL fees alone fighting special ed parents. 58 million could fund some appropriate placements and programs, so I cannot feel sorry for them nor believe. Prejudice is alive and well regarding these children. I see the mentality that they think these kids cannot achieve, so they don't bother to teach. When people don't know how to teach these kids -- they get frustrated easily and give up easily. It takes a lot of patience.The state needs to enforce the federal law, provide for these children, and since it is so unwilling and has failed to do so, the state then is under obligation to pay for appropriate services outside the pubic venue.If they spent the money on creating these services rather than on the legal fees and settlements instead of arguing with parents ad nauseum -- things would change. Every school needs a special ed advisory committee made up of parents and teachers and they should have a say in how those federal and state SE dollars get spent. Most school boards do not even have a special ed parent on them. Out of sight, out of mind. I could never feel sorry for school districts who go out of their way to bully, manipulate, and coerce parents into inappropriate programs that may well wind their child up in those statistics one day. What they do TODAY has a grave bearing on that child's LIFE. If that child -- ANY child who does not learn to read, write, and compute to at least the ninth grade level is going to wind up unemployable and relying on either the parents or when they are DEAD, the child will then wind up in an institution and a ward of the state for the rest of his or her life. These children may wind up homeless as adults because someone blew them off to an ESL class or some other inappropriate program?Other states are getting it to work. Why doesn't Texas find the programs that work and go look at them and try to model them and STOP spending all the taxpayer money on legal fees fighting parents?Private schools are doing a better job with LESS money. Why not look at what they do and model after them? My Alma mater is in the inner city -- a tough part of town and a lot of poor or the disappearing middle class and they operate on far less money than the public schools and yet this school has produced senior classes who year after year have a 100% acceptance rate into college. What are they doing right?I've seen schools who will not even let the parents organize and raise the money themselves to provide better programs and services because the truth is if the law didn't make them accept special needs kids they would still be turning these kids away. There is a SERIOUS lack of accountability to the IDEA in schools and unless a parent learns how to keep them accountable, The child is being shortchanged. This is rampant in our schools in Texas. They think parents don't really care, and many parents get busy or don't have the time to do the work to keep them honest. Under the levels of accountability now, a parent must do a lot of work to keep track of what is really happening at school. It shouldn't have to be this way, but integrity is lacking.Schools do not want it around that they have a good special ed program because they don't want a rush of special ed parents moving in. I don't see a real desire to want to provide for these children.It is sad that many parents do not realize until it is almost too late if not too late that all those lovely grades that get sent home do not tell the real story. Many parents are led to believe their child is " doing great, " and then when the kid is sixteen, the parent thinks that since the grades said he was doing great in reading that the kid can get his license and drive, and that is when most parents finally figure it out -- that their child hasn't been taught to read at all. By then the kid is in real trouble.I just used to be one of those people who thought that when you died, you went to Texas, but this education business has disgusted me so....Perhaps it is because I was blessed and I thank God my parents were able to put us in private school. There is WORLD of difference.Any way you slice it, IMO, the private sector and the churches do a far better job of educating children than the government ever has. I firmly believe that what is needed is competition of education dollars via vouchers. then you would see public schools start to change -- Adapt or die, but as it is, parents who cannot afford private placements have but ONE choice and that is their local district. I say give parents a choice and allow them to take their business elsewhere if they don't like the product.But the teacher lobbyists are going to fight that so that they can keep Texas down in the bottom ten percent.

[Guest guest]

HIlda,Thanks for the complement.  A person gets angry when they go to school, get a job, and no one has ever had to ask then to pay their taxes on time.  A person pays their debts and pays bills on time....property taxes for 32 years and for five years in two districts, and then when it comes time for their kid to get an education....?  It is hard for a person who spends a lifetime playing by the rules only to find out there is rampant disregard for the rules.  part of the problem is people who have to speak in generalities when they wish they could scream at the top of their lungs about the atrocities going on.

Aside from that, these children are " the least of his brothers. "   These children are angels.  But even when I was a very young girl, discrimination of any kind made me feels sick to my stomach.  I just watched " The Diary of Anne " again the other day....I just cannot wrap my head around Man' inhumanity to Man.

These children have been messed over by the government via the vaccine damage truth, and then they get messed over in education and other services.I was just thinking that since the SC has decided parents can't sue for vaccine damage, I was wondering if we could sue the FG and SC for discrimination against these children because children damaged by Zoloft get compensated.  It is government discrimination that denies these children justice.

, I strongly recommend " Reading Milestones " for Skilynn.  It has worked wonders for my son.yes, it appears the only training districts want to provide is that which is cheap or free and comes form teh service centers.  They don't want to pay for an real training.  Hence, I think we need to start a petition to get the TEA to require an autism teaching certificate.  I am sick of hearing districts call people " autism specialists "   when most can't even define ABA or TEACCH and don't know what APD is.