Re: Dr Atkins

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 12/22/1999 3:10:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,

diabetesonelist writes:

i would be very cautious....i went on the diet...passed out in a mall and was

hospitalized...after 3-4 weeks on it...

<< I realize that there are skeptics to the Dr. Atkins diet - I was one

myself. After reading many of Meenie's (and others) posts on low carbs and

the results they were having, I began to think that maybe there was something

to it. The endocrinologists and CDE I saw also verified that carbs caused the

blood glucose to rise. When I was on oral medication, I wasn't really aware

of the connection. Over the past few years, I bought a lot of cookbooks on

low fat cooking and learned techniques such as s >>

[Guest guest]

Patience, there are 2 different methods that work, both involve

carbohydrate regulation. I lost weight on NO FAT, I had to be extremely

strict. I know from people I write to it is possible to lose weight,

have good control and all the other markers of health on a high protein

diet with fat, again seriously limited carbs. It seems like we do one

thing or the other. It all means serious no no's in the diet.

Sam

[Guest guest]

>I lost weight on NO FAT, I had to be extremely

> strict. I know from people I write to it is possible to lose weight,

> have good control and all the other markers of health on a high protein

> diet with fat, again seriously limited carbs. It seems like we do one

> thing or the other. It all means serious no no's in the diet.

> Sam

Sam, I've been wanting to ask you this, and I finally can't help myself. How

on earth did your body get any of the crucial fat-soluble vitamins while you

were on a no-fat diet? Do you realize that you did more harm to your body by

creating deficiencies in these nutrients than the good you may have done

with your weight loss?

I do agree that too much of " dieting " has to do with DON'T rather than DO.

But I say DO have some fats in your diet. You have to have them, and if your

nutrient levels are sufficient, you will lose weight this way, no doubt

about it. NO FAT is DANGEROUS and I believe it is a bit irresponsible to say

that ANYONE should try this method. ANY body can achieve weight loss if

deficiencies are overcome. Some are more serious than others, and most don't

manifest themselves for many years.

There, I feel better now. :-)

Kramer

[Guest guest]

, I was on the diet for at least a yeear, I don't know trhat I

suffered any deprivation of vitamins. I eat mostly fruit, rich in

vitamins, fiber and minerals. And I feel better too. Sam

[Guest guest]

What was the reason they gave for your passing out, Patience?

Meenie

>From: Patience9@...

>

>In a message dated 12/22/1999 3:10:47 AM Eastern Standard Time,

>diabetesonelist writes:

>

>i would be very cautious....i went on the diet...passed out in a mall and

was

>hospitalized...after 3-4 weeks on it...

>

><< I realize that there are skeptics to the Dr. Atkins diet - I was one

>myself. After reading many of Meenie's (and others) posts on low carbs and

>the results they were having, I began to think that maybe there was

something

>to it. The endocrinologists and CDE I saw also verified that carbs caused

the

>blood glucose to rise. When I was on oral medication, I wasn't really aware

>of the connection. Over the past few years, I bought a lot of cookbooks on

>low fat cooking and learned techniques such as s >>

>

>>

[Guest guest]

I think it's wonderful that you consume large amounts of fiber and nutrient-rich

foods. That's essential for anyone, diabetic or not. But how can you say you

didn't " feel " that you were suffering any nutrient deficiency? I'd be willing to

bet that everyone on this list is seriously deficient in a number of essential

nutrients. As we age we all naturally Yet I don't think anyone could say,

" Egads, I feel like I'm a little low in selenium today. " And even when we do

have clear manifestations of deficiencies - heart disease, diabetes, arthritis,

etc. - do we attribute these to their real cause?

Biologically, we're useless after around age 40. By then we should have done our

part and contributed new material for the gene pool, perpetuated the species,

and so our bodies naturally stop producing enzumes, hormones, amino acids, and

other natural protections as we age. We also lose our inborn ability to

synthesize nutrients from food.

Foods are chemical concoctions of awesome complexity that enter your cells,

altering their composition and dictating their activity. Foods are potent

packages of pharmacological agents that control the behaviour of your cells.

What you give your cells can make them fortresses filled with armies of

antioxidants to resist the ravages of time. Or, you can provide foods devoid of

antioxidants and essential fatty acids, allowing wholesale massacre and

mutilation of your cells. And as your cells age and deteriorate, so does your

body.

Fats play an important role in the absorption and transport of the fat-soluble

vitamins (A,D, E, K, and the carotenoids, including beta carotene). If fat is

eliminated from the diet, the body will synthesize some fatty acids from protein

and carbs to meet its needs. However, one fatty acid called linoleic acid is

essential, meaning that it cannot be synthesized from other macronutrients and

must be obtained from food or supplements. Now, I agree that animal fat can

steal your youth (and health), boosting LDL cholesterol, influencing hormones to

promote cancer, and clog arteries. But the type of fat you eat can either rev up

or depress your entire detoxification system, including the way you handle free

radicals. This is why I maintain that fat is not necessarily always the enemy.

Most of the harmful fat in processed foods comes from partially hydrogenated

soybean oil. Partially hydrogenated vegetable oils contain trans fatty acids,

which serious suppress enzyme detoxification in the body. Using extra virgin

olive oil and canola oil for cooking is good; avoiding butter, whole milk,

cheese, and full-fat yogurt is good too; and eating fish to get Omega-3 fatty

acids and antioxidants is excellent. But no fat - in a word, dangerous.

Even modern methods of testing are not reliable. You can have " normal " blood

levels of vitamins and still be metabolically deficient, meaning you lack the

amount needed for normal biological activity. A new concept also holds that you

can have a " localized " deficiency, where your blood tests are normal and you

feel fine, but specific tissues, for example in the lung or cervix, are

deficient, exposing you to a greater risk of cancer and other chronic maladies.

It is my uncompromised belief that nearly everyone on the planet is dying of a

deficiency of some kind, or " insufficiency, " as scientists are now calling it,

ignoring the warnings their bodies are giving them.

People often say, " I took a multivitamin for a month and I didn't feel like it

did anything. " What is it that we want vitamins and minerals to do? Did any of

you " feel " diabetes coming? Do you " feel " a stroke or cancer before it happens?

Probably not. It's no longer wise to think that even the healthiest diet can

give your body everything it needs to fight the onslaught of disease. And when

we severely restrict diet in an effort to fight disease, and this is our only

nutrition-related effort, we do more harm than good.

End of lecture, guys. Sorry if I sound a bit depressed but it's been a long year

in the nutrition trenches.

Kramer

" Christmas gift suggestions: To your enemy, forgiveness.

To an opponent, tolerance. To a friend, your heart. To a

customer, service. To all, charity. To every child,

a good example. To yourself, respect. "

- Oren Arnold

Re: Dr Atkins

, I was on the diet for at least a yeear, I don't know trhat I suffered

any deprivation of vitamins. I eat mostly fruit, rich in vitamins, fiber and

minerals. And I feel better too. Sam

[Guest guest]

, I was asked to sign a pledge with Kaiser in so cal to use no

spread at table, eat no gravy or sauces. I saw my insulin usage fall

from 80U a day to 28U in a matter of 3 weeks. I was able to go on

diabeta 2.5mg a day with good sugars. Continuing the low fat regimen

strictly I lost about 2 pounds a week. In 8 months I was forced to a

lower dose, and in a month forced to diet alone.

If I eat any fat i expand around the middle. When you are watching out

for alligators: gnats don't concern you much. Now I had a blocked gall

bladder, and I know exactly what happens when you are unable to digest

any fat. I had to wear old clothes and grease myself with vaseline 3

times a day. I assure I am not near that state.

I dso feel sorry for those who eat no fruit, get their carbos from

wheat. Theyave to add niacin to prevent scurvy, iron particles to

prevent anemia, B vitamins and now folic acid. It must be really good

stuff. It has one virtue, it is cheap. All the TV dinners are loaded

with pasta. If we were not diabetic we would not have to restrict our

diet, I am diabetic, I do restrict starches. By testing myself I found

they gave higher sugars longer than fruits. I eat just enough to keep

my sugars even. Fat, well some creeps into our diet, eggs, meats,

cheese, dairy. My last HbA1c was 5.3% without medication for diabetes. I

cannot take any pancreas booster, I crash quickly. I mst do it with

diet, Sam

[Guest guest]

>Continuing the low fat regimen

You said NO fat. There is a BIG difference.

> If I eat any fat i expand around the middle. When you are watching out

> for alligators: gnats don't concern you much.

Good one! But did you know that your body's ability to metabolize fat is

impaired when you are insulin resistant (diabetic)? It isn't the fat that's

making you, well, fat.

Now I had a blocked gall

> bladder, and I know exactly what happens when you are unable to digest

> any fat.

Did you have gallstones too? Did your choleserol rise significantly? I know

that gallstone and liver problems happen in diabetics often because of

impaired immune systems...

> stuff. It has one virtue, it is cheap. All the TV dinners are loaded

> with pasta.

LOL Sam, finally we do agree! ;-)

If we were not diabetic we would not have to restrict our

> diet,

DISagree...diabetics should not restrict their diets any more than

non-diabetics. A healthy diet for a diabetic is the same as a healthy diet

for anyone else, and it can be full of variety and interesting, healthy

foods. I guess it's the term " restrict " that I have trouble with. I work

with so many people whose idea of a " diet " is this: " on " a " DieT " = " Don'T " .

Too many " don'ts " adds up to failure real quick.

>I

> cannot take any pancreas booster, I crash quickly. I mst do it with

> diet, Sam

I agree that managing your diet is one of the most important things you can

do to control your diabetes. But I don't think advocating severe

restrictions is the key, although I do admit I would prefer that everyone on

the planet gave up dairy except for baby cows ;-) And baby humans, of

course, should drink baby human milk and nothing else :-))

But why not SUPPORT the pancreas - rather than taking something that claims

to " boost " it - by giving your body natural nutritional support for

synthesizing what you eat properly, restoring that delicate chemical

concoction that God created every one of us with and that we all can regain

if we just give some thought as to how we lost it in the first place...?

Desperate times call for desperate measures - it's not just about food

anymore.

>

K.