Re: Newbie seeking advice

July 15, 2011

Welcome, M. This is a great group and I think you will enjoy it.

The phenomenon you describe seems to be a very common one among Aspie

(and some NT) men, especially the more socially oblivious and less

mature. With the Aspie men, there may also be some issues with literal

interpretation and an overall poor understanding of boundaries.

IMO, you two might want to have a nice, long, frank, and excruciatingly

explicit chat on what the concept of infidelity means to each of you.

You really need to be on the same page with this; otherwise you will

continue to get your boundaries stomped on over and over again should

both your definitions not be in sync.

Infidelity is an issue about which some people love to play with

semantics and surf the knife-edge of what is technically acceptable

within the relationship. IMO, this only leads to painful

misunderstandings and people getting hurt over and over again. That's

why you both need to be crystal clear with each other about what

infidelity means to each of you and how breaches of trust affect the

relationship.

Here's a place to start...

http://blogs.psychcentral.com/sex/2011/07/infidelity-in-the-age-of-the-internet/

Personally, I have become very wary about dating men whose social and

dating lives have been seriously lacking for a good portion of their lives.

Why? Because when the wounds are that deep and longstanding, gathering

endless approval can become an 'addiction' of sorts. There just can

never be enough to satisfy that hunger for atta-boys and/or wild oats to

sow. When one has long been starved, their appetite for validation can

become a black hole that simply cannot be filled.

This can manifest as " Shiny New Coin Syndrome " , where he endlessly

attempts to flirt with anyone and everyone as a way of validating his

own appeal and attractiveness. It's not about the woman or her

receptivity (to flirting), it's about his vision of his own self-worth.

Playing the " White Knight " is another manifestation I've seen, where he

will endlessly give of himself and his time to people whom he barely

knows, all at the expense of his loved ones (whose approval he has

already won).

The compulsion to 'rescue' women in one dire strait or another is a

popular scenario. I once knew a guy who blew off weekend plans with his

wife at the last minute to go 'rescue' a female acquaintance whose

moving team had stood her up.

" Here I come to save the day! That means that Mighty Mouse is on the

way! Yes sir, when there is a wrong to right, Mighty Mouse will join

the fight! "

Snore. No, thank you. Not going there. I have known too many women

who did, and I think I would prefer to learn from their mistakes.

Ultimately, each of us teaches others how we expect to be treated. It's

up to you how much energy and heartache you want to invest in teaching

this man about boundaries and the importance of trust in a relationship.

But first, you both need to get on the same page as to your definition

of what infidelity means to each of you.

Good luck.

Best,

~CJ

July 15, 2011

> He says he will be a loyal husband, but how can I be sure of that seeing how

he has been conducting himself over the past 19 months with me? I am not sure if

his compulsive flirting and lack of consideration for my feelings are linked to

Asperger's or if it's just him. I don't know if it is behaviour that can be

changed or if it is his nature which cannot be altered. Just the thought of

breaking up with him is too painful to consider, but staying with him under

these conditions isn't easy either. I don't know what I should do.

I haven't yet read the other responses ... mine may be a bit different.

It sounds like your partner is not monogamous. This is completely apart from

AS, but of course, AS colors how he presents himself and how he acts/reacts.

I have many non-monogamous friends, who have handled things very differently.

One woman is legally married to one man, but lives with two (and her daughter

with her husband). She is " wife " to both men, who are quite happy with the

arrangement.

A man I know has been married for 25+ years, has a steady lover (who is a friend

of his wife) and has " deep kiss " relationships with several other women. His

wife also has lovers ... and they stay happily married. I also know of mixed

orientation marriages -- the man has both a wife and a male lover. These

marriages all work because the spouses maintain completely honest, open

communication.

M, it sounds like your partner does not intend to be monogamous. That's ok ...

for him. The big questions are:

- can you live in an open relationship? Some people can, some can't.

- is your partner capable of communicating with you in a way that let's you

feel he isn' " cheating " ? That means *no* secrecy, no deceit, or denial, though

it's up to the two of you whether he tells you of every little detail.

To me, personally, the second is more important ... I have been there and done

that.

Quick biography that most people here know: ~18 months ago, I found out that my

husband of 20 years was having an affair. Over time, and through counseling I

found out: he is also Aspie, the affair was with a man, it was just the latest

in a 9+ year string of hookups, mostly gay, he's into BDSM and humiliation. But

the one overriding fact, and the largest part of the reason we're divorcing, was

that he was deceiving me every step of the way, lying to our marriage therapists

(4 over 10 years), and even denying his sexuality to himself. Now that our lives

are laid open in divorce court, he's still denying things, until I present our

lawyers with absolute proof (photographs). In my soul searching, I realized I

could have been happy in an open marriage, but only if the communication was

far, far better than it was.

--Liz

Aspie woman divorcing Aspie man

July 15, 2011

WOW! I have been reading recent posts about ,tone of voice,flirting,vacations,

all the replies from helen,linda,judy,ron,john and of course Cj and I feel like

I have been seeing my life with my self dx'd AS partner playing out in front of

me. The words of wisdom from these posts have been definately gold.I am no where

near as eloquent as other members and can offer little from what has already

been posted. My partner has always flirted outragously, in and out of my

presence. It has been one of the most unbearable things for me to deal

with,Along with the occasional cutting, cruel remarks. We also have argued about

his behaviours and actions. Light bulb moment happened 2 years ago. We

established that my partner has a sex addiction which he is now in recovery for.

Doing his best. Life is very difficult at times, I am having to learn to self

care. I totally support him and his efforts.However he knows my boundaries and

the consequences. He had no idea he was flirting, he was validating himself and

attempting to get his ego stroked. He could not undersatnd how his actions were

being read by women and he kept finding himself <in trouble< with his female

friends. He has been reflecting on his actions and with help and support trys

his best to not fall fowl of his need to have his EGO 'stroked'. His childhood

has helped to form him and with the traits of AS abound throughout his growing

up and his inabilty to form proper friends, the need for love and affection he

was not receiving from his mother he found these things elsewhere and began

unhealthy behaviours. To those newbies. Gather as much information as you can

from this types of group before making a decision. It has been a difficult road

for my partner and I , we are still travelling it together with no doubt a long

way to go and will probably be travelling the road for the rest of our lives. I

stand by him, love him and have a connection I have never found with any one

else. He has changed and continues to learn, But it is terribly hard work.

This group helps to keep me sane sometimes.

Thanks for listening.

My two pennies worth.

Alison

>

> (Another great post and I am just reposting some of her pearls of wisdom)

> He has to be the one to change. He has to see a reason to it. Right now he

doesn't see the point to changing his behavior.

>

> Another thing to ponder outside of boundaries is consequences. I had a real

hard time enforcing this in my marriage and that was MY issue. If U agree not

to do this and U do, this is what will happen. This is a HUGE issue for

families who have difficulty following through for a variety of reasons.

Consequences can be anything YOU are comfortable with if you find this behavior

is making YOU uncomfortable or unacceptable for your belief system or life

style. The trick is in the follow through on your end and you should talk it

over and agree on the consequences.

>

> Relationships are complicated. There could be a zillion reasons behind his

behavior that even he is not aware of????????

>

> Just a thought.

>

July 16, 2011

Thank you CJ, Liz, Cassie, & Ron!

Your responses are much appreciated. I really don't know much about AS, and

reading your response to my message and the other posts on AS-NT relationships

brought tears to my eyes because it all sounds so familiar! I am really glad

that I joined this group and am able to learn about AS from you. Once again,

many thanks for your support and suggestions.

I am making mental notes of what I need to do and how I should address my

current situation but it seems too complicated. If the system allows, I will

send personal messages to you so that the others on the forum do not get bored

reading my sob story!

Best,

M

>

> Greetings to all,

>

> I'm new to this forum and this is my first post, so I'll introduce myself and

then share a problem that has been bugging me for a while. Apologies in advance

for this long post!

>

> I am neurotypical female, 34, and my fiancé, 28 has Asperger's. It hasn't been

diagnosed clinically yet, but he has been told by educational psychologists at

university and other places that there are strong possibilities that he has

Asperger's. He believes he is in the high-functioning autism range, has an IQ of

150 and can stun people with his knowledge and intelligence. We both took some

online tests for adult diagnosis of Asperger's a few months ago and it didn't

surprise us when he was placed in the Aspergers group and I in the NT group. His

first marriage (when he was 21) lasted for about 6 years and ended civilly. I

have never been married. He has a great sense of humour, and we share several

common interests and get along quite well. However, I am beginning to worry

about the role of Asperger's in our relationship.

>

> We have known each other for 19 months and have been engaged for 9 months.

Among other things, I have observed that he is generally friendly with everyone

and flirtatious with anyone in a skirt. Much to my chagrin he enjoys female

company a bit too much and on occasions has even given out his telephone number

to women he met randomly in bookstores and grocery stores and dated them briefly

afterwards while engaged to me! A month after our engagement he went to Europe

on holiday for two weeks and said he wanted some time alone and deserved a long

overdue holiday. When he came back, I discovered that he was not alone on that

trip. A female friend of his met up with him and they shared hotel rooms. He

swears that `nothing happened' and she was just a friend and they shared hotel

rooms to split costs etc. I trust him for most parts, but was deeply hurt that

he lied to me and deceived me and wouldn't have told me if I hadn't cornered him

into telling me the truth. This trip was planned at least 8 months in advance

and he didn't breathe a word about it. He apologised and said he didn't realise

that it would hurt me so much, and that because of Asperger's he is not good

with understanding other people's feelings. We argued, talked, and I believed

him. Since that day our relationship has changed. He says he feels secure with

me and trusts me completely, and I thought we were getting stronger as a couple

until I discovered that after that incident, even now when he goes on holiday

(which is fairly often) he presents himself as a single available guy and goes

out with women he meets on his travels. He also continues to write to them

afterwards and tells them that he is single and romantically interested in them.

>

> We have argued miserably a couple of times recently where I have ended up in

tears for over 12 hours and couldn't believe that he has been dating other women

(both in the real and the virtual world). I feel awful that I had to invade his

privacy and snoop around his personal messages and catch him out by going

through his emails and text messages in order to get to the truth because he

would never admit to dating other women. At first he denied point blank, then

when I showed him emails written by him, he apologised and said he would have

never acted on those emails anyway and they are `just words' that mean nothing

to him and that he has always been loyal to me. He says that real world flirting

and dating other women has stopped but the internet is an unreal world and

therefore he sees nothing wrong with flirting through email every now and then.

>

> His affection towards me hasn't changed and he is as loving and attentive as

always. He cares for me a lot, arranges fantastic days out and weekend trips,

buys me presents, and we spend good time together and have brilliant

conversations. He says that I have nothing to worry about, that he is committed

and loyal to me, and that these women are just people he is attracted to and

this is his way of making friends. I love him but don't think it is fair that I

should compromise with his infidelity. He doesn't even count this as infidelity.

When I ask him why he needs to date other women compulsively, he goes in denial

and then says `I don't know,' `it will stop,' but since he doesn't see anything

wrong in flirting in an `unreal' world that the internet provides, he hasn't

been able to stop. We argue, cry and he promises that the flirting will stop,

but a few weeks later he does it again. It is as if we never talked about it! I

do love him and want to marry him, but I want him changed. He says he will be a

loyal husband, but how can I be sure of that seeing how he has been conducting

himself over the past 19 months with me? I am not sure if his compulsive

flirting and lack of consideration for my feelings are linked to Asperger's or

if it's just him. I don't know if it is behaviour that can be changed or if it

is his nature which cannot be altered. Just the thought of breaking up with him

is too painful to consider, but staying with him under these conditions isn't

easy either. I don't know what I should do.

>

> All insights appreciated

>

> M

>

July 16, 2011

Thank you CJ, Liz, Cassie, & Ron