Guest guest Posted June 20, 2007 Report Share Posted June 20, 2007 Long term students of almost every spiritual path often complain that after years and years of study and trying to apply the principles they have learnt, that rather than becoming more loving and peaceful they become more judgemental and angry. It looks like they are going backwards instead of forwards. What really is happening is that they are becoming more aware of the ego thought system. They are getting in touch with the part of the mind which values its specialness more than anything else and is quite willing to lie, cheat, steal and even kill to protect it. Being " special " comes at a high price, and the ego thought system does its level best to keep that cost out of our awareness, because if we saw the true extent of its viciousness, guilt and fear no one would choose to listen to it. Yet becoming aware of the ego illusions is the only way we can be free of them. The blocks to our awareness of Love's presence have to be seen before they can be undone. You cannot remove something that you are hiding. As Jesus says " No one can escape from illusions unless he looks at them, for not looking is the way they are protected. " (T-11.V.1:1,3) So we travel down a dark path for a little while until we reach the light, because we will never choose the light until we truly see how much the darkness of separation/specialness is costing us. That was 's message to us as she lay on the floor of that half-way house when the darkness of the ego thought system finally became too much and she made another choice for Love. " You are at home in God, dreaming of exile but perfectly capable of awakening to reality " (T.10.I.2:1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 I couldn't agree with you more. I have experienced it that way myself. Looking at a minor irritation I felt towards someone and seeing that it was covering a deep murderous thought; seeing that the nice, pleasant me was covering something much more vicious than I could ever have expected; seeing that even that which I experienced as fleeting happiness before all had the same source; etc. There is a big difference however between saying you must look at the ego and actually looking at it. The first one leads to nothing but understanding, a booby price, the second one is the one that leads to freedom, to seeing the moon. When you really look at it, rather than just saying the words, you also eventually see that the ego is nothing but thoughts, that it really can do no harm. This is why the ego tries so hard to sidetrack you into all kinds of different avenues, because once you see it means you only harm and the nothingness it really is, it becomes powerless. Once you see it is but a false thought that you believed, you are free. We are so blessed to have the tools like enquiry to look at the ego rather than just trying to understand it, aren't we? Advancing spiritually ... > > Long term students of almost every spiritual path often complain that > after years and years of study and trying to apply the principles > they have learnt, that rather than becoming more loving and peaceful > they become more judgemental and angry. It looks like they are going > backwards instead of forwards. > > What really is happening is that they are becoming more aware of the > ego thought system. They are getting in touch with the part of the > mind which values its specialness more than anything else and is > quite willing to lie, cheat, steal and even kill to protect it. > Being " special " comes at a high price, and the ego thought system > does its level best to keep that cost out of our awareness, because > if we saw the true extent of its viciousness, guilt and fear no one > would choose to listen to it. Yet becoming aware of the ego illusions > is the only way we can be free of them. The blocks to our awareness > of Love's presence have to be seen before they can be undone. You > cannot remove something that you are hiding. As Jesus says " No one > can escape from illusions unless he looks at them, for not looking is > the way they are protected. " (T-11.V.1:1,3) > > So we travel down a dark path for a little while until we reach the > light, because we will never choose the light until we truly see how > much the darkness of separation/specialness is costing us. That was > 's message to us as she lay on the floor of that half-way house > when the darkness of the ego thought system finally became too much > and she made another choice for Love. > > " You are at home in God, dreaming of exile but perfectly capable of > awakening to reality " (T.10.I.2:1) > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 > There is a big difference however between saying you must look at the ego > and actually looking at it. To use 's analogy of the snake in the desert: I can talk about this snake I know is in the desert, I can warn other people about how strong and powerful it is, how it operates, what it looks like and become a total expert on this snake. But unless I venture into the desert and go and look at this snake myself, I will not see that it is but a powerless rope and nothing to be frightened of. The ego is not some monster out there, it is that within me that feeds me with false thoughts about myself. When I look at these thoughts (this person is attacking me, that person has done me in, I should feel guilty about what I have done, I am inferior, I am more clever than someone else, etc.), I am looking at the ego. It is that simple. As I investigate more and more and see that nothing I believed is true, I realise that I have always been free and the real world emerges into my awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Nice. ) -frank _____ From: Loving-what-is [mailto:Loving-what-is ] On Behalf Of Hanle Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2007 1:29 AM To: Loving-what-is Subject: Re: Advancing spiritually ... > There is a big difference however between saying you must look at the ego > and actually looking at it. To use 's analogy of the snake in the desert: I can talk about this snake I know is in the desert, I can warn other people about how strong and powerful it is, how it operates, what it looks like and become a total expert on this snake. But unless I venture into the desert and go and look at this snake myself, I will not see that it is but a powerless rope and nothing to be frightened of. The ego is not some monster out there, it is that within me that feeds me with false thoughts about myself. When I look at these thoughts (this person is attacking me, that person has done me in, I should feel guilty about what I have done, I am inferior, I am more clever than someone else, etc.), I am looking at the ego. It is that simple. As I investigate more and more and see that nothing I believed is true, I realise that I have always been free and the real world emerges into my awareness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 > > if we saw the true extent of its viciousness, guilt and fear no one would choose to listen to it. Another of 's messages is that the mind is like a child and the thoughts are like children, and we make peace with reality when we welcome each thought with love and understanding, like caring for a beloved child. The thoughts are only the mind at play, believing itself, searching for love and truth, totally innocent if misguided. Cori Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Some questions you might want to consider... When you really look at it, rather than just saying the words, ----->Who is this " you " who really does the looking? you also eventually see that the ego is nothing but thoughts, ----->What isn't a thought? If you " know it, " then it is known in thought. that it really can do no harm. This is why the ego tries so hard to sidetrack you into all kinds of different avenues, ----->What is the Source of the ego? What generates it? because once you see it means you only harm ----->The ego has an agenda? Who or what wrote it? and the nothingness it really is, it becomes powerless. ----->It was always powerless. Once you see it is but a false thought that you believed, you are free. ----->For that moment in which it is seen, yes. The next moment a thought is believed, you are again, not free. ;-) Nothing in phenomenality is permanent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 You post provoked these questions... The ego is not some monster out there, it is that within me that feeds me with false thoughts about myself. [so there is " you " and there is " the ego " ? What, exactly, is this " you " ?] When I look at these thoughts (this person is attacking me, that person has done me in, I should feel guilty about what I have done, I am inferior, I am more clever than someone else, etc.), I am looking at the ego. [Are there any thoughts which are not the ego?] It is that simple. As I investigate more and more and see that nothing I believed is true, I realise that I have always been free and the real world emerges into my awareness. [is anything true?] [What is " the real world " ?] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 > > > The ego is not some monster out there, it is that within me that > feeds me with false thoughts about myself. When I look at these > thoughts (this person is attacking me, that person has done me in, > I should feel guilty about what I have done, I am inferior, I am > more clever than someone else, etc.), I am looking at the ego. It > is that simple. As I investigate more and more and see that nothing > I believed is true, I realise that I have always been free > and the real world emerges into my awareness. > Thanks for the post Hanle, always nice to get a different perspective on things. Here is my 2 cents worth to continue the discussion Being in this world/dream means that who I really am (the decision maker outside of time and space) has already chosen to listen to and believe the ego thought system of separation, fear and guilt. My identification with the ego thought system continues until I see how painful that really is, and I look for another way. The other way is the Voice for Love in my mind which had previously been ignored because the ego always speaks first and is the loudest. The Voice for Love reinterprets what was made by the ego to separate i.e. the world, the body and uses them instead to demonstrate the principle of Love or joining. The " Real world " spoken of in ACIM is simply the illusion of the world seen as the illusion that it is, and cleansed of all the false uses (separation) of the ego. What was made to separate now becomes a flimsy veil which barely conceals the oneness of Love. " The world was made as an attack on God. It symbolizes fear. And what is fear except love's absence? Thus the world was meant to be a place where God could enter not, and where His Son could be apart from Him " (W.pII.3:1,2,3,4). " The world you see is an illusion of a world. God did not create it, for what He creates must be eternal as Himself " (C.4.1:1,2). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 > > > > if we saw the true extent of its viciousness, guilt and fear no > one would choose to listen to it. > > Another of 's messages is that the mind is like a child and > the thoughts are like children, and we make peace with reality when > we welcome each thought with love and understanding, like caring > for a beloved child. The thoughts are only the mind at play, > believing itself, searching for love and truth, totally innocent if > misguided. > Hi Cori, I like 's message and can find no fault with her approach. Welcoming the ego thoughts of viciousness, guilt and fear with love and understanding could only happen if we were listening to the Voice for Love. Rather than identifying with the ego thought system, we are making a different choice this time for love. However, the key point for me is that we will never choose 's loving way until we see just how much our previous belief in the thoughts of viciousness, guilt and fear really cost us. Things normally have to get pretty bad before anyone chooses another way. had years of depression and suicide thoughts before she chose love. nne on had a nervous breakdown before she became a teacher of ACIM. Helen and Bill (scribes of ACIM) worked in the research department from hell before they asked for another way. LOL ... if I was in charge I would tattoo the following words from Jesus on the arm of every and ACIM student. " You who are steadfastly devoted to misery [separation] must first recognize that you are miserable and not happy. The Holy Spirit cannot teach without this contrast, for you believe that misery [separation] is happiness " (T.14.II.1:2,3) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 21, 2007 Report Share Posted June 21, 2007 Hi Andy I replied to LTW's posts from an ACIM point of view, which we are both familiar with. I understand that you come from a different belief system that uses different words and concepts, but underlying all of that, I belief the same Truth is present in both. I do belief that there are 2 thought-systems, one of the ego that teaches you that you are separate and one of the Truth within (maybe you don't call this a thought-system?). Whilst there is even the slightest remainder of ego-thoughts left within you, it is best IMO to address that person that you belief you are. Asking who the you or me are at this stage, is rather pointless to me. Unless you have experienced that you are all and all is you yourself, it has no meaning. Whilst I am perceived as a person walking in a body, that is how I behave. It does not mean I believe I am that body. I see from your posts that you put a lot of focus on the fact that you and I do not exist. ACIM and the Work teaches the same. However, maybe they have a clearer understanding that teaching has to be done from an ego point of view, meeting a person where he is at. For teaching to have meaning, you have to take someone by the hand and lead him gently to the point where he discovers for himself that the " person " that he thought he was, never existed. To teach an ego that it does not exist, is to engender fear and a lot of resistance. A gentle discovery of the meaninglessness of ego thoughts, to meet them with understanding, ultimately results in the dissolution of firstly the power that it had over you and ultimately in a quieting of those thoughts. The real world to me is What Is. > > You post provoked these questions... > > > > The ego is not some monster out there, it is that within me that feeds > me with false thoughts about myself. > > [so there is " you " and there is " the ego " ? What, exactly, is this " you " ?] > > When I look at these thoughts (this person is attacking me, that > person has done me in, I should feel guilty about what I have done, I > am inferior, I am more clever than someone else, etc.), I am looking > at the ego. > > [Are there any thoughts which are not the ego?] > > It is that simple. As I investigate more and more and see that nothing > I believed is true, I realise that I have always been free and the > real world emerges into my awareness. > > [is anything true?] > [What is " the real world " ?] > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted June 22, 2007 Report Share Posted June 22, 2007 I don't see any difference between what we are saying :-) Re: Advancing spiritually ... > >> >> >> The ego is not some monster out there, it is that within me that >> feeds me with false thoughts about myself. When I look at these >> thoughts (this person is attacking me, that person has done me in, >> I should feel guilty about what I have done, I am inferior, I am >> more clever than someone else, etc.), I am looking at the ego. It >> is that simple. As I investigate more and more and see that nothing >> I believed is true, I realise that I have always been free >> and the real world emerges into my awareness. >> > > Thanks for the post Hanle, always nice to get a different perspective > on things. Here is my 2 cents worth to continue the discussion > > Being in this world/dream means that who I really am (the decision > maker outside of time and space) has already chosen to listen to and > believe the ego thought system of separation, fear and guilt. My > identification with the ego thought system continues until I see how > painful that really is, and I look for another way. The other way is > the Voice for Love in my mind which had previously been ignored > because the ego always speaks first and is the loudest. The Voice for > Love reinterprets what was made by the ego to separate i.e. the > world, the body and uses them instead to demonstrate the principle of > Love or joining. The " Real world " spoken of in ACIM is simply the > illusion of the world seen as the illusion that it is, and cleansed > of all the false uses (separation) of the ego. What was made to > separate now becomes a flimsy veil which barely conceals the oneness > of Love. > > " The world was made as an attack on God. It symbolizes fear. And what > is fear except love's absence? Thus the world was meant to be a place > where God could enter not, and where His Son could be apart from Him " > (W.pII.3:1,2,3,4). > > " The world you see is an illusion of a world. God did not create it, > for what He creates must be eternal as Himself " (C.4.1:1,2). > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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