Re: observations on physical sensations (called pain)

[Guest guest]

Dear

Pain is not a story

Pain is reality

At list in my world :-(

T

-- Re: Re: observations on physical sensations

(called pain)

Dear Roslyn,

> coming from sleep, i cannot remember a thought before i notice the

> pain.

And in the moment you call it " pain " , you got a story.

> i deeply learned to live with it and have really seldom any not

> accepting of it. i simply deal with it. i found when it is strong i

> withdraw from life. the stronger the pain the smaller my scope gets.

> i reach a point of just being without any resistance, or desire.

> a breathing being riding on waves.

Sounds beautiful.

>>>>> Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

>>>>>> Vivian

>>> ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

>>> from deep sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

>>> there was no thought before.

This is not about the " before " it is about the now. You wake up. Your

notice your body is in a certain position, a certain part of your

muscles is working, and did you wake up because of spasms?

I notice you often stop at this part, anyway. Find a proof or two,

and move along. Take your time to answer *all* of the four questions.

Even if it *was* true, can you see any valid reason to hold onto it?

Like on that is not painful? And who would you be without this story,

anyway? Experience that.

Love,

__________________________________________________________

Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

[Guest guest]

Rose, roslyn

You see one, you see them all, right?

-- Re: observations on physical sensations (called

pain)

is doing his games. (?)

) this is rose, not roslyn. )

[Guest guest]

at that moment you notice you have spasms. but not before or after. It's ok to

have spasms when you do. but if you start running stories such as:

Now I'll have spasms every night

this could go on for a long time

the spasms are getting worse each time I have them

then you might want to go to inquiry.

Vivian

observations on physical sensations (called pain)

> Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> > >

> > > Vivian

ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night, from deep

sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

there was no thought before.

lr

[Guest guest]

thanks for the response, vivian.

it doesn't answer the question.

i wake up, find " my " body in spasm, they come in waves, strongly,

keep me awake, when they are really strong. i ride them like waves,

through breathing.

i can say there is a pain in " rose's " body. it curls this body up.

this pain can get any name. spasm, or hurdono (right now invented

word, have no idea if it is existing in any language on this planet).

if they get " too " strong, or too may (i noticed i can/was able to

handle up to six different ones simultaneously, then i have given up

and took a pill)

could you, as vivian come back once more to the sentence:

" Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache. "

?

thanx in advance, lr

>

> at that moment you notice you have spasms. but not before or

after. It's ok to have spasms when you do. but if you start running

stories such as:

>

> Now I'll have spasms every night

>

> this could go on for a long time

>

> the spasms are getting worse each time I have them

>

> then you might want to go to inquiry.

>

> Vivian

> observations on physical sensations

(called pain)

>

>

> > Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> > > >

> > > > Vivian

>

> ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

from deep

> sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

> there was no thought before.

>

> lr

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

sorry, the last words are confusing. i was distracted.

> if they (pains/aches) get " too " strong, or too may (i noticed i

can/was able to handle up to six different ones simultaneously), i

can take a pill.

well. taking a pill, may make me not sensing the ache anymore.

is it still there?

if i feel my belly (spasm), or watch the leg, moving itself in a

spasm, i can see them, but don't feel the pain anymore. my feelings

are like sinking into a cloud. smoothily.

and now?

how does this match with your sentence:

>

> " Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache. "

>

not provoking, not pestering, examining.

> thanx in advance, lr

>

>

>

> >

> > at that moment you notice you have spasms. but not before or

> after. It's ok to have spasms when you do. but if you start

running

> stories such as:

> >

> > Now I'll have spasms every night

> >

> > this could go on for a long time

> >

> > the spasms are getting worse each time I have them

> >

> > then you might want to go to inquiry.

> >

> > Vivian

> > observations on physical sensations

> (called pain)

> >

> >

> > > Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> > > > >

> > > > > Vivian

> >

> > ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

> from deep

> > sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

> > there was no thought before.

> >

> > lr

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

I'm just guessing, but my thought is that your spasms are so strong that all

your attention is focused on them. I'm simply reporting what Katy has said

regarding cancer, headaches and other traumas. You make a very good point and if

I were having strong spasms I believe all my attention would be on them.

That said, if I spent a lot of time thinking about the spasms when I'm not

having one, then that would be an occasion for me to do the Work.

Vivian

observations on physical sensations

(called pain)

>

>

> > Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> > > >

> > > > Vivian

>

> ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

from deep

> sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

> there was no thought before.

>

> lr

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rose:

You said:

" what about the experience that you wake up in the night, from deep

sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms? there was no thought

before. "

There was no thought before? Can you really know that that is true?

Can you be sure that the pain of the spasm came before your first

thought upon awakening?

I have experienced this and for me, it is like this:

I wake up.

I notice I have a cramp in my leg.

Then I notice I am in pain.

All of this happens extremely fast, but I have noticed it occurs in

that order.

Also, You notice you are awake and that your body is in a spasm.

Then where does your mind go?

My mind goes about building a complete story around the cramp like

this:

I have a cramp in my leg.

This pain is killing me.

This pain may never stop.

I have to find a way to stop this pain.

I am angry because I have this pain.

etc.

Blessings, Steve D.

>

> > Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> > > >

> > > > Vivian

>

>

> ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night, from

deep

> sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

> there was no thought before.

>

> lr

>

[Guest guest]

it is a mixture.

sometimes they (spasms) are strong enough to wake me up but the

intervals are not so near-term(ingly?) so i tend to fall asleep

again.

sometimes i'm in between. like the light sleep when you lose your

feeling for time (e.g. when you take a nap)

when the i freshly injured, i had to lay flat for some weeks. by and

by they decreased the amount of pain killers and tranquilizers.

i had pain for hours, but was dimmed. i took it breath for breath,

without a story.

in the backview, the story i can put to it is, it reminds me to my

attemps to surf on the pacific waves.

you was concentrated, and somehow in tune with the waves.

there is a strange thing about my time sensory.

i was in india many yrs ago. there i realised that i am european.

and there i learned by simply tuning into it, that time doesn't

matter. i got from these people, that if something ( " expected " like

the departure of a bus) doesn't happen now, but perhaps is changed

to an unknown time, i (have no clue how it came to be) have taken

over the capability to just be in the meantime, without a feeling

of/for time. i mention this, because it flows into my way of dealing

with pain/stress. but i cannot explain it any better.

lr

> I'm just guessing, but my thought is that your spasms are so

strong that all your attention is focused on them. I'm simply

reporting what Katy has said regarding cancer, headaches and other

traumas. You make a very good point and if I were having strong

spasms I believe all my attention would be on them.

> That said, if I spent a lot of time thinking about the spasms when

I'm not having one, then that would be an occasion for me to do the

Work.

>

> Vivian

> observations on physical sensations

> (called pain)

> >

> >

> > > Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> > > > >

> > > > > Vivian

> >

> > ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

> from deep

> > sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

> > there was no thought before.

> >

> > lr

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

Dear Steve,

generally speaking in advaita one of the common sayings/questions

(?) seems to be (as far as i know): if you are asleep where is the

world?.

vivians sentence " no thought no headache " . (originally " Without the

thought my head hurts, I have no headache. " ) was getting my

interest. i personally (without any intend to belittle anyone here)

like to make my own experiences and not just " parrot " others quotes

no matter how much i resonate.

currently i experiment with two topics.

dissonances/conflicts between people and physical pain.

this thread is about the second topic.

coming from sleep, i cannot remember a thought before i notice the

pain.

i deeply learned to live with it and have really seldom any not

accepting of it. i simply deal with it. i found when it is strong i

withdraw from life. the stronger the pain the smaller my scope gets.

i reach a point of just being without any resistance, or desire.

a breathing being riding on waves.

i have no other words for that. when i gave birth to my daughter,

all these yrs ago it was a short and intensive experience. there

were two or three contractions which were really intensive. when the

first one came i was reluctant to just cry it (out) so i warned my

midwife, saying, attention, i will cry now. that's what i did when

the next ones came. with all this pain, and just letting it go

through me the girl was born so quickly that she had to be quick to

catch her.

it may sound unbelievable, but i have up to now no resistance agains

these aches. this is how this body works. i never had the story

running it should be different, or it should not, or it will

never ..., or it will always...

i don't know if you can belief this. i have no interest in

pretending anything. i know areas in my life where i struggle with

being not at ease with it, but my body; no. that's ok.

lr

this is not revised

> Dear Rose:

>

> You said:

> " what about the experience that you wake up in the night, from

deep

> sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms? there was no thought

> before. "

>

> There was no thought before? Can you really know that that is

true?

> Can you be sure that the pain of the spasm came before your first

> thought upon awakening?

> I have experienced this and for me, it is like this:

> I wake up.

> I notice I have a cramp in my leg.

> Then I notice I am in pain.

> All of this happens extremely fast, but I have noticed it occurs

in

> that order.

> Also, You notice you are awake and that your body is in a spasm.

> Then where does your mind go?

> My mind goes about building a complete story around the cramp like

> this:

> I have a cramp in my leg.

> This pain is killing me.

> This pain may never stop.

> I have to find a way to stop this pain.

> I am angry because I have this pain.

> etc.

>

> Blessings, Steve D.

>

>

> >

> > > Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> > > > >

> > > > > Vivian

> >

> >

> > ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

from

> deep

> > sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

> > there was no thought before.

> >

> > lr

> >

>

[Guest guest]

yes, the original thought came from . I have experienced it and found it to

be my reality as well.

Vivian

Re: observations on physical sensations (called

pain)

Dear Steve,

generally speaking in advaita one of the common sayings/questions

(?) seems to be (as far as i know): if you are asleep where is the

world?.

vivians sentence " no thought no headache " . (originally " Without the

thought my head hurts, I have no headache. " ) was getting my

interest. i personally (without any intend to belittle anyone here)

like to make my own experiences and not just " parrot " others quotes

no matter how much i resonate.

currently i experiment with two topics.

dissonances/conflicts between people and physical pain.

this thread is about the second topic.

coming from sleep, i cannot remember a thought before i notice the

pain.

i deeply learned to live with it and have really seldom any not

accepting of it. i simply deal with it. i found when it is strong i

withdraw from life. the stronger the pain the smaller my scope gets.

i reach a point of just being without any resistance, or desire.

a breathing being riding on waves.

i have no other words for that. when i gave birth to my daughter,

all these yrs ago it was a short and intensive experience. there

were two or three contractions which were really intensive. when the

first one came i was reluctant to just cry it (out) so i warned my

midwife, saying, attention, i will cry now. that's what i did when

the next ones came. with all this pain, and just letting it go

through me the girl was born so quickly that she had to be quick to

catch her.

it may sound unbelievable, but i have up to now no resistance agains

these aches. this is how this body works. i never had the story

running it should be different, or it should not, or it will

never ..., or it will always...

i don't know if you can belief this. i have no interest in

pretending anything. i know areas in my life where i struggle with

being not at ease with it, but my body; no. that's ok.

lr

this is not revised

> Dear Rose:

>

> You said:

> " what about the experience that you wake up in the night, from

deep

> sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms? there was no thought

> before. "

>

> There was no thought before? Can you really know that that is

true?

> Can you be sure that the pain of the spasm came before your first

> thought upon awakening?

> I have experienced this and for me, it is like this:

> I wake up.

> I notice I have a cramp in my leg.

> Then I notice I am in pain.

> All of this happens extremely fast, but I have noticed it occurs

in

> that order.

> Also, You notice you are awake and that your body is in a spasm.

> Then where does your mind go?

> My mind goes about building a complete story around the cramp like

> this:

> I have a cramp in my leg.

> This pain is killing me.

> This pain may never stop.

> I have to find a way to stop this pain.

> I am angry because I have this pain.

> etc.

>

> Blessings, Steve D.

>

>

> >

> > > Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> > > > >

> > > > > Vivian

> >

> >

> > ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

from

> deep

> > sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

> > there was no thought before.

> >

> > lr

> >

>

[Guest guest]

would u mind describing a personal experience?

lr

>

> yes, the original thought came from . I have experienced it and

found it to be my reality as well.

>

> Vivian

vivians sentence " no thought no headache " . (originally " Without the

> thought my head hurts, I have no headache. " )

[Guest guest]

>

> > Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> > > >

> > > > Vivian

>

>

> ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night, from

deep

> sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

> there was no thought before.

>

> lr

>

****So, I wake up from deep sleep cause my body is curled in

spasms...and what thoughts arise? If I dont see a problem with my

body being curled in spasms, I'm just having another experience. If

the thought arises that it shouldnt be happening or it is too much

to bear, I can work those thoughts ~ or maybe call out for someone

to give me a pain reliever, and then do the work on thoughts that

arise....

[Guest guest]

it would just be a story.

Re: observations on physical sensations (called

pain)

would u mind describing a personal experience?

lr

>

> yes, the original thought came from . I have experienced it and

found it to be my reality as well.

>

> Vivian

vivians sentence " no thought no headache " . (originally " Without the

> thought my head hurts, I have no headache. " )

[Guest guest]

> > > Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> > > > >

> > > > > Vivian

> >

> >

> > ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

from

> deep

> > sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

> > there was no thought before.

> >

> > lr

> >

> ****So, I wake up from deep sleep cause my body is curled in

> spasms...and what thoughts arise? If I dont see a problem with my

> body being curled in spasms, I'm just having another experience.

If

> the thought arises that it shouldnt be happening or it is too much

> to bear, I can work those thoughts ~ or maybe call out for someone

> to give me a pain reliever, and then do the work on thoughts that

> arise....

my thoughts go like that:

ah, here it is. once again. like it was here before in other

moments. let's see how strong it is.

ah, here comes another wave. breathing has worked before. let's see

if it works this time again.

in the meantime i watch the starry sky. or the leafs in the trees

around. or i just close my eyes and breathe.

i sense the pain, but have no resistance. if it get's too strong or

too long, i take a pill (very seldom). i found pain is a trainer for

me. (not masochistically meant ) )

lr

[Guest guest]

is there anything " wrong " with stories? ) chucklingrose

>

> it would just be a story.

> Re: observations on physical

sensations (called pain)

>

>

> would u mind describing a personal experience?

>

> lr

> >

> > yes, the original thought came from . I have experienced

it and

> found it to be my reality as well.

> >

> > Vivian

>

> vivians sentence " no thought no headache " . (originally " Without

the

> > thought my head hurts, I have no headache. " )

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Roslyn,

> coming from sleep, i cannot remember a thought before i notice the

> pain.

And in the moment you call it " pain " , you got a story.

> i deeply learned to live with it and have really seldom any not

> accepting of it. i simply deal with it. i found when it is strong i

> withdraw from life. the stronger the pain the smaller my scope gets.

> i reach a point of just being without any resistance, or desire.

> a breathing being riding on waves.

Sounds beautiful.

>>>>> Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

>>>>>> Vivian

>>> ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

>>> from deep sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

>>> there was no thought before.

This is not about the " before " it is about the now. You wake up. Your

notice your body is in a certain position, a certain part of your

muscles is working, and did you wake up because of spasms?

I notice you often stop at this part, anyway. Find a proof or two,

and move along. Take your time to answer *all* of the four questions.

Even if it *was* true, can you see any valid reason to hold onto it?

Like on that is not painful? And who would you be without this story,

anyway? Experience that.

Love,

___________________________________________________________

Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

[Guest guest]

only if we believe them and act on them as if they are real. If we use our

stories to judge other people then to me there is something wrong because the

stories are not reality based.

Vivian

Re: observations on physical

sensations (called pain)

>

>

> would u mind describing a personal experience?

>

> lr

> >

> > yes, the original thought came from . I have experienced

it and

> found it to be my reality as well.

> >

> > Vivian

>

> vivians sentence " no thought no headache " . (originally " Without

the

> > thought my head hurts, I have no headache. " )

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

is doing his games. (?)

) this is rose, not roslyn. )

i started to respond. but i feel it is better to continue after some

hrs of sleep.

good n8, r

Dear Roslyn,

> coming from sleep, i cannot remember a thought before i notice the

> pain.

And in the moment you call it " pain " , you got a story.

[...]

[Guest guest]

Dear Tami,

what is, is.

when do you call it " pain " ? If that's too... slippery: Observe *how

much* pain it is. Who gets the shots on when it is " a little " , " not

worth talking about " , " a lot " and " too much to bear " ?

That way, when you experience pain, you can say: this is pain

category... C.

And is that true?

Love,

Am 03.09.2006 um 11:33 schrieb Tami:

> Dear

>

> Pain is not a story

> Pain is reality

>

> At list in my world :-(

>

> T

>

>

> -- Re: Re: observations on physical sensations

> (called pain)

>

> Dear Roslyn,

>

>> coming from sleep, i cannot remember a thought before i notice the

>> pain.

> And in the moment you call it " pain " , you got a story.

>

>> i deeply learned to live with it and have really seldom any not

>> accepting of it. i simply deal with it. i found when it is strong i

>> withdraw from life. the stronger the pain the smaller my scope gets.

>> i reach a point of just being without any resistance, or desire.

>> a breathing being riding on waves.

> Sounds beautiful.

>

>>>>>> Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

>>>>>>> Vivian

>>>> ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

>>>> from deep sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

>>>> there was no thought before.

> This is not about the " before " it is about the now. You wake up. Your

> notice your body is in a certain position, a certain part of your

> muscles is working, and did you wake up because of spasms?

>

> I notice you often stop at this part, anyway. Find a proof or two,

> and move along. Take your time to answer *all* of the four questions.

> Even if it *was* true, can you see any valid reason to hold onto it?

> Like on that is not painful? And who would you be without this story,

> anyway? Experience that.

>

> Love,

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://

> messenger.yahoo.de

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

alex...this should be to rose.. not roslyn.. --

thanks.. roslyn rh not rose.

- In Loving-what-is , wrote:

>

> Dear Roslyn,

>

> > coming from sleep, i cannot remember a thought before i notice the

> > pain.

> And in the moment you call it " pain " , you got a story.

>

> > i deeply learned to live with it and have really seldom any not

> > accepting of it. i simply deal with it. i found when it is strong i

> > withdraw from life. the stronger the pain the smaller my scope gets.

> > i reach a point of just being without any resistance, or desire.

> > a breathing being riding on waves.

> Sounds beautiful.

>

> >>>>> Without the thought my head hurts, I have no headache.

> >>>>>> Vivian

> >>> ok. what about the experience that you wake up in the night,

> >>> from deep sleep, cause your body is curled in spasms?

> >>> there was no thought before.

> This is not about the " before " it is about the now. You wake up. Your

> notice your body is in a certain position, a certain part of your

> muscles is working, and did you wake up because of spasms?

>

> I notice you often stop at this part, anyway. Find a proof or two,

> and move along. Take your time to answer *all* of the four questions.

> Even if it *was* true, can you see any valid reason to hold onto it?

> Like on that is not painful? And who would you be without this story,

> anyway? Experience that.

>

> Love,

>

>

>

> ___________________________________________________________

> Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

>