Re: Do most people not have real interests?

[Guest guest]

a.f. wrote:

>I know in some cases people just go into jobs for the money... and in

>some cases people take classes because they HAVE to... but is there

>just something about how most people approach the real world, that I

>just am not getting?

Sometimes I think that the social stuff is the basic NT

perseveration. Everything they do is a vehicle for the social

interactions that constitute the important part of their lives.

Part of this is what I was trying to get at in my " snip " called

" Being vs Becoming " :

----begin self quote:

There was a discussion about how many of us ( " high-functioning "

autistic adults) had been a disappointment to our parents when we

were children because we did not " stick with " any activity for long.

I commented:

I think this may be related to the difference between those who " are "

in large part what they do and those of us who simply are. That's a

difference I've had to become aware of in order to understand some

things about myself and why/how I tend to confuse other people. The

purpose of doing many things is...well, not sure how to say it....

Okay, I'm going to lay out some over-generalizations here, simply

because I can't think of any other way to get at what I'm trying to

say. None of this is pointed at anyone (i.e., I do not mean to be

" putting down " anyone or assigning anyone to a stereotype).

Some people " get into " learning/practicing/doing certain things

because they see themselves becoming good and successful at those

things. By becoming good and successful in that way, they will be

becoming an identity in the social world, and becoming an identity in

the social world is an important (possibly even crucially necessary)

goal for them. The enjoyment they get from the chosen activity is

likely to be generated in large part from the fact that doing the

activity well helps them create/maintain an identity in the social

world.

Other people enjoy learning/practicing/doing certain things because

they enjoy learning/practicing/doing those things. They do not change

their identity on the basis of what they do, and it may surprise them

when/if other people start to relate to them on the basis of what

they do.

Given that dfference (which I see, generally, as NTs [neurotypical,

" normal " people] in the first case, ACs [Autistics and " Cousins, "

i.e., neurologically non-typical people] in the second), it is not

surprising that the first group would tend to have a more long-term

attachment to the chosen activity-of-success (because it provides the

social identity they need). Whereas people in the second group might

drop a successful activity at any time due to changing interests (and

they can do so because, not feeling any need for a social identity,

they don't need the activity to help them in that way).

-------end self quote.

But also, NT people seem to be creating social realities/altering

social realities all the time as they interchange (invisible to me)

social cues and strokes and challenges. This kind of activity seems

to be very satisfying for them (although it can cause sadness and

even affliction, too), and perhaps they don't need or have mental

room for the same intensity of interest in topics that spectrumites

enjoy.

Several of my uni professors over the years (when I was in long

pursuit of a BA) remarked that having me in the class was like having

another professor there. They seemed to think my attitude was very

different from that of regular students. Occasionally, I was able to

spark some signs of participatory life in other students, and that

was always a relief.

Jane

[Guest guest]

> Sometimes I think that the social stuff is the basic

> NT

> perseveration. Everything they do is a vehicle for

> the social

> interactions that constitute the important part of

> their lives.

***

My gosh: your statement is profoundly enlightening to

me.

Social activity as a NT perseveration explains so much

to me.

It partially explains why people enter and exit my

life. The Sociables are drawn to me because friendship

with me enables them to be the dominant partner, but

then they leave [now I understand] because they

require social attention be returned to them.

Now I also understand why my current friend thinks our

friendship will endure. She doesn't mind if I am not

as sociable as she is. She has no social expectations

of me.

~Bonnie

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

Hehehehee, some (I hesitate to say most) people have hobbies. I refuse

to try to define the difference. I recently shocked someone with the

title " The women with the worm in her head " One of Pamela Nagami's

books, and quite enjoyable. Case studies.

other good books, just in case, Lab 257 - must have Serena.

Dying for a Hamburger - discussion of Alzheimers as a prion illness.

(I still eat hamburgers though)

Spoiled - if you eat out (or in for that matter, if you eat!), you

might have a few issues for a bit after this one. ick.

Scourge - a discussion of smallpox

I am also quite fascinated with bones. I don't have a need to know

every single one of their names, although I am familiar with most.

But, I just enjoy bone, a lot. Did you know you can buy bone online,

human even. Totally legit, legal, clean, and respectful.

Also, I am interested in Tibetan buddhism, and core buddhism, what the

historical " Buddha " taught. Any other takers on that one?

so glad to find some others interested in the medical stuff. How many

more of the lurkers share this interest? or is it still just a

handfull of us? hmmmm....

jen.

I think I should go to bed now.

>

> I have spent the last five months in various training programs for

> jobs in the medical field (phlebotomy, EMS).

>

> I have a really strong interest in medical and bio stuff, and even

> other people in the field don't seem to have the same interest or want

> to talk about it... I don't understand. My stepsister who is going to

> be a nurse was weirded out when I tried to show her what I thought was

> a really neat book about anatomy. She seemed grossed out. Why does she

> want to be a nurse if she doesn't like this stuff?

>

> When I was in my phlebotomy externship, there was a bin that all the

> samples going to pathology go into... I asked somebody once if they

> ever wondered what the samples were, or what the pathologist found,

> and they looked at me like I had another head growing out of the side

> of my neck. How could you NOT wonder?

>

> I thought most people went into fields because they were really

> interested or something?

>

> Then I'm in film class. We're supposed to write about the films and

> analyze them. Most people only write two sentences. It's not very

> inspiring in an online film class when I post and can go on and on and

> nobody posts or ever responds to my posts. It also is a little

> discouraging when I get left out of groups at school, and people go

> " huh? " when I talk, like I talk weird or something. The teachers don't

> have a problem with me. It's the other students. I am looking forward

> to group projects being over.

>

> I know in some cases people just go into jobs for the money... and in

> some cases people take classes because they HAVE to... but is there

> just something about how most people approach the real world, that I

> just am not getting?

>

> --

> I love fools' experiments... I am always making them.

> -- Darwin

>

[Guest guest]

Yep, buddhism is Not a religion, doesn't even have to be a way of

life. Pretty much up to the individual what you do with it. There is

no god involved. Now, there are deities, and symbols, and there are

even branchs of buddhism that are much more like a religion. In

essence though, it is a set of guidelines to eliminate suffering, both

in one's self and all sentient beings.

I am familiar with most belief systems, and buddhism just fits so well

with what I " Know "

jen

>

> Hey Jen

> I grew up atheistic - required by my mother... and

> before I joined the Christian faith I practiced both

> wiccan and buddhism at various times. Even now as a

> confirmed Catholic I still find Buddhism very very

> interesting, though I tend to think of it more as a

> way of life than a religion.

>

[Guest guest]

Ouch, but OK.

religion is (I cheated and grabbed a definition)

1. Belief in and reverence for a supernatural power or powers

regarded as creator and governor of the universe.

2. A personal or institutionalized system grounded in such belief

and worship.

buddhism does not at its core bother with the issue of creation or

universal governance etc.

tao means The Way actually, and is a different school of philosiphical

thought than Buddhism. and what I meant by it doesn't have to be a way

of life because you don't have to practice, just because you agree

with Buddhist ideas.

Most religions don't concern themselves with eliminating suffering, at

least in my experience. They seem much more centered on worship and

such, with compassion coming in a second to piety to a god. Also, most

religions are completely unconcerned with " non-believers " whereas

buddhist thought doesn't care what a sentient being believes, at least

with relation to cessation of suffering.

Deities are technically gods, however, in tibetan buddhism, as noted,

there is no duality. Any god/deity is regarded as all part of the

same whole. The existence of individuality is an illusion of

perception. Interdependent Origination would be the term in english, I

prefer the tibetan term Tendrel (that is a transliteration of a longer

phrase in tibetan)

I hope that answers your inquiries, Bonnie.

jen

>

> ...buddhism is Not a religion,

> ***

> Define religion.

> ***

> ***

> doesn't even have

> > to be a way of

> > life.

> ***

> But, doesn't " tao " mean " a way of life? "

>

> Aren't your standards and your values and other things

> that govern your life your way of life? Whether you

> call it Buddhism or Christianity or Atheism?

> ***

> ***

> There is

> > no god involved. Now, there are deities,...

> ***

> Aren't deities, gods?

> ***

> ***

> it is a set of guidelines to

> > eliminate suffering, both

> > in one's self and all sentient beings.

> ***

> Don't all religions have guidelines to eliminate

> suffering? Maybe other things to, but mostly doesn't

> religion teach how to eliminate suffering? In this

> life or the next?

>

> ~Bonnie

>

>

>

>

>

> __________________________________

> Yahoo! for Good - Make a difference this year.

> http://brand.yahoo.com/cybergivingweek2005/

>

[Guest guest]

This is a very tricky point, and probably will depend on which school

a lama follows as far as what answer you would get to a direct

question about this.

Suffice it to say that deities are considered real entities, most of

the " Deities " in tibetan vajrayana practice are actually

Boddhisattvas. These are considered as entities, usually born in the

" god " or " demi-god " realms that have pledged to stay within samsara

until all sentient beings are enlightened. (note that gods and

demi-gods are not seen as the creator entity that the Christian God

is, they are seen as entities living in a different layer of reality)

that said, take it how you will. Because again, there really is no

dualism either.

it might seem a bit contradictory, but there are a lot of layers.

jen

>

> Actually, in Tibetan Buddhism at least, the deities are not regarded as

> existing external to one's self.

>

[Guest guest]

A historical teacher named Jesus is recognized by most people. I am

unsure what your point is...some even say that he was a boddhisattva.

jen

>

> Actually 'god' is a higher power, I believe and most buddhists would

agree

> jesus did walk the earth.

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

a wrote:

> I'm too " Spock-like " to believe in an " all-seeing " , " jealous " ,

> or " vengeful " God (that I was brought up on).

Right, I think it would be hard to *think* and also continue to

" believe " in the kind of God most Christians were brought up to

believe in. As Hazrat Inayat Khan, the founder of S.O.I. (Sufi

Order International) once told an atheist, " I don't believe in

the same God you don't believe in. " That isn't to say that he

didn't believe in a God, but not in the anthropomorphic, limited

image we have been given, which is more like a parable and a

characterization of That which Is. No, the truth is far more

complex than mankind can usually fathom, and deliberately hidden.

Sorry, it's too vast a subject to go into here, but if you were

to get " The Power of Intention " by Dr. Wayne Dyer, you could get

a grasp on the sort of God Albert Einstein and Max Planck were

interested in, the one involving quantum physics.

> I've always respected other's beliefs, and I expect the same

> respect in regards to my own. Religion is a pretty touchy

> subject anyway, and is usually best to avoid it, unfortunately.

> My friends all have different belief systems: My best friend

> is a practicing Christian with the United Church. Other close

> friends don't have a specific set of beliefs, but believe in

> reincarnation and/or some kind of higher power. Whatever works

> is what's right. We all have to deal with this mortal coil

> somehow, for one thing. :-)

A short quote from the Pir:

" There is a storehouse of all knowledge in the universal mind.

If you can touch it, all the knowledge that is there in amplitude

will be poured out to you with perfect ease. For this the doors of

memory should be laid open. Divine mind is the stream of the

fountain, and each individual mind is just like a drop. Man shows

from the beginning of his life on earth signs of having known things

that he had never been taught. " - Hazrat Inayat Khan

Clay

[Guest guest]

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/ -- very neat. rest of message below

Clay's.

snip-------

As Hazrat Inayat Khan, the founder of S.O.I. (Sufi

> Order International) once told an atheist, " I don't believe in

> the same God you don't believe in. " That isn't to say that he

> didn't believe in a God, but not in the anthropomorphic, limited

> image we have been given, which is more like a parable and a

> characterization of That which Is. No, the truth is far more

> complex than mankind can usually fathom, and deliberately hidden.

> Sorry, it's too vast a subject to go into here, but if you were

> to get " The Power of Intention " by Dr. Wayne Dyer, you could get

> a grasp on the sort of God Albert Einstein and Max Planck were

> interested in, the one involving quantum physics.

>

> > I've always respected other's beliefs, and I expect the same

> > respect in regards to my own. Religion is a pretty touchy

> > subject anyway, and is usually best to avoid it, unfortunately.

> > My friends all have different belief systems: My best friend

> > is a practicing Christian with the United Church. Other close

> > friends don't have a specific set of beliefs, but believe in

> > reincarnation and/or some kind of higher power. Whatever works

> > is what's right. We all have to deal with this mortal coil

> > somehow, for one thing. :-)

>

> A short quote from the Pir:

>

> " There is a storehouse of all knowledge in the universal mind.

> If you can touch it, all the knowledge that is there in amplitude

> will be poured out to you with perfect ease. For this the doors of

> memory should be laid open. Divine mind is the stream of the

> fountain, and each individual mind is just like a drop. Man shows

> from the beginning of his life on earth signs of having known things

> that he had never been taught. " - Hazrat Inayat Khan

>

> Clay

Clay, and others, you might be interested in this link/project. Read

the material on what they are doing, you may find it intriguing as I

did. I may not believe in a god, but I know that there is a

connectedness in the universe and that we are part of it.

http://noosphere.princeton.edu/

jen

ps. first attempt at " Bottom-posting " (gosh that sounds dirty), and

not sure I like it. Is " Top-Posting " really so rude? seems rather

the norm. Someone tell me, so I am not rude in here. (OMGosh, that

sounds sort of silly worrying about being perceived as rude in

here....well, to me anyhow.) heading home from work YEAH! Have a

great weekend!

>

[Guest guest]

snip

> ***

> But, doesn't " tao " mean " a way of life? "

>

> Aren't your standards and your values and other things

> that govern your life your way of life? Whether you

> call it Buddhism or Christianity or Atheism?

> ***

snip

here is another reference for tao, so as not to confuse with buddhist

philosophy.

http://www.thetao.info/tao/tao.htm

also, not everyone has standards or values that are the basis for

their life. a lot of people tend to do what suits them, with no

regard to the overall pattern of their behavior. This is one of the

difficulties I have socially, the oddball patterns of behaviors among

people that seem to have no relation to their " beliefs " etc.

for example, the very christian co-worker who is mean and mean hearted

toward people, A Lot. that type of thing.

Myself, buddhism isn't how I live every moment of my life, but I am

working to become more mindful of every moment of my life, which is a

buddhist practice. I refuse to be pigeon-holed though, because that

is not the sum of me. no ism = the whole me (not even autism. hehehehee).

Did that make more sense? am I bridging the gap here or widening it,

Bonnie?

jen