Re: Your opinions about MDF 500 please!!

[Guest guest]

I'd love to learn more about it. What's the name of the company and website?

Thanks,

Sue

[Guest guest]

www.deconsolutions.com

_________________________________________________________________

Messenger Café — open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served daily.

Visit now. http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline

[Guest guest]

I decided to google MDF 500 and came across a series of posts on

ToxLaw. This is the first post: http://toxlaw.com/chatboards/bldg-

supplies/topic12/9.29.05.21.29.44.html

You might want to read them and see what people had to say. Sadly,

there is no simple fix. We left our home almost 3 1/2 years ago.

--- In , " dianebolton52 " <dianebolton@...>

wrote:

>

> Hello everyone: A few weeks ago I read a post here and someone

> recommended MDF 300 for laundry to kill mycotoxins, mold etc. Well I

> decided to contact the company and it seems they make a product MDF

500

[Guest guest]

Perhaps May can help with this, but here is some info I found about

MDF 500: <http://www.moldnmoredecon.com/msds.html>

http://www.moldnmoredecon.com/msds.html Per this article, the claim is

" MDF-500 kills all mold, mold by-products, also known as mycotoxins,

bacteria and viruses. The documents listed on this page provide both product

information from MODEC as well as independent laboratory tests which confirm

the efficacy of this specific product and other products produced by MODEC. "

However, it is my understanding that DEAD mycotoxins continue to be

dangerous to your health, and that the object is to not only kill them, but

to REMOVE them as well. A friend of mine in North Carolina was recently

advised by a professional remediator to use " Sporicidin " to kill and remove

the mycotoxins. Here is the website for more information:

http://www.sporicidin.com/mold-feat-disinfectant.htm

The protocol is to remove all porous materials from the house (basically you

can only leave wood furniture), then spray or fog Sporicidin on all

surfaces, including walls and ceilings. After it dries it is essential to

remove the residue (which includes the mycotoxins) with wipes. You have to

wipe down the wall, the ceilings and the floor. Then I think you also HEPA

vacuum the floor. Here is a blurb from the Sporicidin website:

" Dust and Spore Suppression Applications: Use SporicidinR Disinfectant

Solution to effectively knockdown and suppress airborne dust particles and

spores within containment areas prior to final clearance inspection and

testing during mold mitigation. Mist SporicidinR Disinfectant Solution into

the air within the containment area using a trigger sprayer, pressure

sprayer or fogging device in accordance with device manufacturer

instructions. Refer to applicable fogging or misting guideline section below

for more information. Allow mist or vapor to settle onto surfaces and remain

wet for ten minutes. Thoroughly clean and wipe all hard, non-porous surfaces

with SporicidinR Disinfectant Solution using clean cloth, sponge or mop

(SporicidinR Disinfectant Towelettes [Wipes] are ideal when working in

containment areas). Allow surfaces to air dry. "

My friend told me that you have to clean EVERYTHING that you bring back into

the house. According to the manufacturer you can use the Sporicidin " wipes "

to clean items before bringing them back into the house. According to the

remediator, upholstered furniture (chairs, couches, mattresses, etc.) must

be thrown away. All clothes must be washed before bringing back into the

house. My friend still has things in bags waiting to be washed and/or

cleaned before he can bring them back in the house. He threw away all of his

books (excepting some that were in glass-covered bookcases).

Forgot to mention that my friend had to first remove some drywall, repair

the roof leaks, fix the crawl space problems and completely replace the HVAC

system (including most ductwork). Only after he had repaired the moisture

problems was he able to do the final cleanup phase with the Sporicidin.

Sorry I don't know much more than that. I do know that he used the ERMI test

for mold (per Dr. Shoemaker) through www.Mycometrics.com

<http://www.mycometrics.com/> and also used the Remediator that Dr.

Shoemaker recommended, who came down from Washington, DC, to make

recommendations. He had an extremely high ERMI score, indicating a lot of

mold. Sorry, I don't know much more than that. I have asked Harvey to join

this list, but he just can't manage any more email. He also has other health

issues he is dealing with, plus recovering from mold illness.

I don't know anything about MDF 500 but perhaps it is similar to Sporicidin.

[Guest guest]

Diane,

Good questions and I applaud you first seeking information about

something that gives you hope. I agree with the comments on this post

I found on toxlaw.com at http://toxlaw.com/chatboards/bldg-

supplies/topic12/10.19.05.14.46.40.html

The distributors of the product make many claims that go well beyond

what the product can actually do. Please call the manufacturer of the

product and not the distributor or salesman and ask them directly.

THe answers are far different than what their distributors salesman

are selling.

Most companies I found while searching for " MDF 500 " also claim it is

" safe. " As an EPA registered product it is illegal to claim it is

safe. Also, the EPA required label is the law. So read the label (may

be booklet sized) carefully. If an application is not listed (like

inside air ducts) then it is illegal to use it that way. The labels

can be extremely specific.

Note that MDF 300 is for laundry. That means the product saturates

the clothing for many minutes to do its work. Then it and the

" mycotoxin residue " can be well removed by rinsing. MDF 500 is for

surfaces which are harder to clean and difficult to obtain similar

dwell times with limited rinsing ability. Using it for

mold/mycotoxins behind surfaces, like inside walls and ceiling, are

still difficult, if not impossible, to sufficiently treat - with no

way to rinse away the residue.

If anyone has used MDF 500 for mycotoxin issues (as opposed to

killing spores) I'd also be interested in their experience.

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> Hello everyone: A few weeks ago I read a post here and someone

> recommended MDF 300 for laundry to kill mycotoxins, mold etc. Well I

> decided to contact the company and it seems they make a product MDF 500

> that you can use to remediate your home using foggers and it

> supposedly KILLS mycotoxins in the home. I have not lived in my home

> for almost three years and I am SO excited about this I can hardly

> think. Am I overreacting, does anyhere here know about this product and

> have any information you can tell me about it?? Seems like a dream come

> true, I know many of you have left your homes. Please, if any of you

> are familiar with MDF 500 I would love to hear from you.I do not want

> to get too excited until I know for sure wether it will help with my

> home. The representative says she knows Dr. Shoemaker. Thanks- Diane

>

>

>

> FAIR USE NOTICE:

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I wonder if there is any way to know if Dr Shoemaker knows about their

product and thinks it is good.

>

>Please, if any of you

> are familiar with MDF 500 I would love to hear from you.I do not

want

> to get too excited until I know for sure wether it will help with my

> home. The representative says she knows Dr. Shoemaker. Thanks- Diane

>

[Guest guest]

Carl or anyone, have you seen or used the 300 product on store shelves

anywhere for laundry??

--- In , " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...>

wrote:

>

> Note that MDF 300 is for laundry.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the ToxLaw link. I thought this post was interesting.

Don't know if it is true but interesting:

>>

MDF - 500 was developed by the US governments Sandia Labs for use to

decontaminate Anthrax contaminated buildings. Anthrax is a mold.

MDF - 500 breaks

into the spores " shell " and breaks everything down to water &

oxygen, all the

allergens and mycotoxins. All gross contamination is supposed to be

removed

(drywall w/ mold growing on it, ...) before the MDF - 500 is fogged

in the

building. It is not supposed to be used to kill major mold growing

in a building or

to be used as an antimicrobile. It is suppose to be used to

decontaminate the

secondary mold contaminats (i.e., spores, hyphea, ...)quickly so

that a whole HEPA

vac & wiping of the contaminated area does not have to be done.

--- In , " " <smarshwar@...>

wrote:

>

> I decided to google MDF 500 and came across a series of posts on

> ToxLaw. This is the first post: http://toxlaw.com/chatboards/bldg-

>

[Guest guest]

Carl's right. You have to read all the posts there. Anthrax is a

bacteria, but there are a couple of people there who said they use the

product.

>

> I decided to google MDF 500 and came across a series of posts on

> ToxLaw.

[Guest guest]

Pam,

MDF is just a commonly used surfactant/detergent called a quaternary

ammonium compound (or " quat " for short). One way these compounds kill

bacteria and other organisms is by disrupting the cell membrane that

protects the cell.

Mycotoxins and MVOCs are not alive any more than a brick is, so they cannot

be killed. It is possible that the detergent action of quats assist in the

removal of many organic compounds (such as mycotoxins and MVOCs) from

fabrics, but I do not believe quats would be any more effective than the

ordinary laundry detergent or soap that anyone uses to clean clothing,, so

why spend the extra money?

Quats are also the primary type of chemical in fabric softeners. Exposure to

quats can cause allergic sensitization.

Sporicidin (another disinfectant) contains phenol and this has an odor that

anyone with chemical sensitivities would find VERY objectionable. Since it

is not a detergent, Sporicidin will NOT remove mycotoxins or have any effect

at all on them.

C. May, M.A., CIAQP

May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

3 Tolkien Lane

Tyngsborough, MA 01879

617-354-1055

www.mayindoorair.com

www.myhouseiskillingme.com

>Your opinions about MDF 500 please!!

>Posted by: " Pamela Gibbard " pqgibbard@... pqgibbard

>Date: Sat Aug 25, 2007 6:04 pm ((PDT))

>Perhaps May can help with this, but here is some info I found about

>MDF 500: <http://www.moldnmoredecon.com/msds.html>

>http://www.moldnmoredecon.com/msds.html Per this article, the claim is

> " MDF-500 kills all mold, mold by-products, also known as mycotoxins,

>bacteria and viruses. The documents listed on this page provide both >product

>information from MODEC as well as independent laboratory tests which >confirm

:>the efficacy of this specific product and other products produced by

MODEC. "

>However, it is my understanding that DEAD mycotoxins continue to be

>dangerous to your health, and that the object is to not only kill them, but

>to REMOVE them as well. A friend of mine in North Carolina was recently

>advised by a professional remediator to use " Sporicidin " to kill and remove

>the mycotoxins. Here is the website for more information:

>http://www.sporicidin.com/mold-feat-disinfectant

[Guest guest]

Jeff, thanx so much for your professional clarification on all of

this! It is very, very helpful to have your opinion that ordinary

laundry detergent is just as effective as this product for fabric

cleanup.

But I am still confused on the mycotoxin cleanup in my house. I think

what my fuzzy brain must have meant was that with mold remediation it

is essential to both kill the mold spores so that they don't produce

any additional mycotoxins, and also to remove the spores and

mycotoxins from the home environment. Is this explanation now

accurate?

But here is the most important question. Beyond the basics of mold

remediation (e.g., repairing any moisture problems, removing any

damaged surfaces and visible mold spores, and HEPA vacuuming, which I

have done), what product(s) and procedures do you recommend for the

final cleanup step? In other words, how do I get rid of any remaining

mold spores plus mycotoxins in my house??? Is there a product that

can help? If so, how is it used.

Thank you for any clarification you can provide on this very

confusing situation.

[Guest guest]

Beware, the EPA mold scale ERMI is misleading. Please read the truth

about it here:

http://molddetectionexperts.blogspot.com/2007/08/beware-epa-mold-scale-e\

rmi-is.html

[Guest guest]

Pam,

If the remediation is done correctly, there should not be a whole lot of

mold spores left. Regardless of how it is done, if there has been

significant growth, it is not possible to eliminate or to kill all spores

and since there are billions of them, there will always be enough left to

start growing again. The trick is to prevent the moisture (leaks, high

humidity) from ever again providing the proper conditions for growth.

In my opinion, all affected bare wood surfaces should be sealed. This will

prevent any residual material left on a surface from ever becoming

aerosolized. As I have said before, for people with chemical sensitivities,

50% diluted Elmer's glue can be used instead of paints or other sealants

that off gas. No spores or mycotoxins can be aerosolized from a surface that

is properly cleaned and sealed.

If there are any mycotoxins present in the home, apart from the surfaces

where there was actual growth, the only meaningful mycotoxins present would

be in the dust, so getting rid of all dust is essential. Don't forget the

tops of door and window trim, the insides of electric boxes (outlets,

switches, etc.) and light fixtures, the insulation in stoves, refrigerators,

dishwashers and other appliances (particularly those with air flows), etc.

etc.

Use great care around all electrical connections; use only plastic vacuum

wands, not metal! turn power off to fixtures, etc. whenever possible.)

I do not believe that there are any products that would be more effective

than very thorough elimination of all dust.

Baseboard convectors have to be taken apart and cleaned of all dust. (The

best way to do this is to HEPA vacuum, then blast the fin tubing with steam

vapor from a steam vapor machine, using cloth below to catch dust and

condensed water. (Operate an exhaust fan to take out any dust that

aerosolizes.) Ducts from AC and heating systems can never be completely

cleaned of residual dust, but cleaning of an air conveyance system is

certainly a step that should be taken.

I think that many people are overly concerned about mycotoxins without ever

kbowing if any are even involved. Sending off a sample of house dust can

certainly give you an idea if mycotoxins are present. If you have hot air

heat, you could take all the dust from a dirty filter (or from a HEPA

prefilter purifier) or take all the dust from your refrigerator coils (which

collect dust from the air). These samples will give you an idea of what you

have been breathing.

For seeing if it is in your settled dust, you could vacuum carpets and other

house dust into a clean bag, then send the bag off for analysis. I believe

that Aerotech does mycotoxin analysis of dust samples.

Old radiators are also a great source of house dust; purchase a 36 " vacuum

crevice tool to get the dust out and into a vacuum bag.

For meaningful results, you would probably need at least a quarter cup of

dust but check with the lab. The more you can collect, the more likely you

are to detect mycotoxins if any are present.

In the end, testing may prove too costly since you don't know what

mycotoxins to test for and there are many. I have only sent out house dust

for testing once. The dust came from the refrigerator coils in a house that

had Aspergillus ochraceus growing in the ducts (on dog food!) and a very

high level of ochratoxin-A (a mycotoxin from the Aspergillus)in the duct

dust. We were lookingg for the presence of this specific mycotoxin and

surprisingly, no mycotoxin was detected in the collected dust.

Of course, fleecy surfaces (carpets, cushions, dog beds, etc.) that contain

residual dust that can never be removed and items such as these will always

be suspect. They should be removed from the space and replaced or sealed.

For a legal case, I needed evidence from house dust of the prior conditions

there. I removed the cover from a dial thermostat (which has significant air

flow through it due to the presence of an internal heater) and found a large

clump of dust. In the dust, I found (using a microscope) all the evidence I

needed for the past presence of pets, mold and paint spraying.

C. May, M.A., CIAQP

May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

3 Tolkien Lane

Tyngsborough, MA 01879

617-354-1055

www.mayindoorair.com

www.myhouseiskillingme.com

>Re: Your opinions about MDF 500 please!!

>Posted by: " Pam Gibbard " pqgibbard@... pqgibbard

>Date: Sun Aug 26, 2007 12:23 pm ((PDT))

>Jeff, thanx so much for your professional clarification on all of

>this! It is very, very helpful to have your opinion that ordinary

>laundry detergent is just as effective as this product for fabric

>cleanup.

>But I am still confused on the mycotoxin cleanup in my house. I think

>what my fuzzy brain must have meant was that with mold remediation it

>is essential to both kill the mold spores so that they don't produce

>any additional mycotoxins, and also to remove the spores and

>mycotoxins from the home environment. Is this explanation now

>accurate?

>But here is the most important question. Beyond the basics of mold

>remediation (e.g., repairing any moisture problems, removing any

>damaged surfaces and visible mold spores, and HEPA vacuuming, which I

>have done), what product(s) and procedures do you recommend for the

>final cleanup step? In other words, how do I get rid of any remaining

>mold spores plus mycotoxins in my house??? Is there a product that

>can help? If so, how is it used.

>Thank you for any clarification you can provide on this very

>confusing situation.

[Guest guest]

Yes, my home had been remediated (2 1/2 years ago) and I'm still

getting sick in it. During my initial appointment with Dr. Shoemaker

he warned me that WDBs may not be remediated properly and that I

might have to move out of my house. He also thought that I would be

one of his patients who is likely to recover completely.

Since the most recent blood work confirms that I am not getting

better, he indicated that the next step is to re-test my house for

mold, using the ERMI test through Mycometrics.com. The ERMI test

results have been sent to both him and to me, and then I am to have a

telephone consultation with him soon to discuss the results.

This is still all in process, but I will report back after I talk to

him (probably in a couple of weeks). I will respond more about the

ERMI test to a later post.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> Pam, what is happening, has your home been remediated and you're

still getting sick in it?

>

[Guest guest]

I will be having a phone conversation with Dr. Shoemaker soon about

my ERMI mold test results and remediation. I plan to ask him about

both MDF 500, Sporicidin, and whatever recommendations he might have

about any further remediation.

I will report back on what he says.

>

> I wonder if there is any way to know if Dr Shoemaker knows about

their product and thinks it is good.

>

[Guest guest]

Thanx Jeff for all of your help. I do know that some of the things

you suggest below were not done, and will undoubtedly have to get

taken care of with the next expected remediation go-round.

The bare wood surfaces in the crawlspace (where the problem

originated) were not cleaned or treated in any way so that

undoubtedly should be done. A vapor barrier was put down (and

extended 3/4 up the walls but may have to be replaced after the wood

is cleaned.

I think all the sources of moisure have been corrected, but I think I

should have it checked again. Humidity this winter in my bedroom was

around 30% but of course shot up in the North Carolina summer. I set

the A/C pretty low to keep the RH around 50-55%. To lower it more

makes the house way too cold for me.

In my case the entire ductwork was damaged (and full of mold) and was

completely replaced upstairs and downstairs (except for the intake

section). The moldly air was being blown out of the floor vents and

was visible on the first floor walls.

The professional (who I think was brand new to the field) told me to

first fix the ductwork problem, then wash the walls with a bleach

solution, and finally repaint the walls with a fungal paint additive.

He didn't think the ceiling was a problem so it wasn't cleaned nor

repainted. When I asked about the carpet he thought I should just

vacuum it well with a HEPA vacuum. Actually, I used a carpet-cleaning

powder called Zorb (from Dyson) before HEPA vacuuming. Now I gather

that the carpet and pad should have been thrown away.

In retrospect, it seems ridiculous to me that the walls would have

mold but not the ceiling since the ceiling fans are so helpful in

circulate the air.

I don't know how well everything was cleaned as I had to hire someone

to paint and clean. I do know that the same upholstered furniture

(sofas, chairs, mattresses) are still in the house and could be

harbouring many spores.

After I talk to Dr. Shoemaker about the results of my ERMI mold test

results I am thinking that the next step will be to look for a

seasoned remediator to inspect the house again (I'm in the Raleigh,

NC area). Does anyone have a recommendation of someone local?

Hopefully it's just a matter of insuffient cleanup of dust, which I

doubt was thorough enough. Guess I'll know more of what to do next

after I talk to Dr. Shoemaker.

Thanx again for your thorough explanation.

>

> Pam,

>

> If the remediation is done correctly, there should not be a whole

lot of mold spores left. Regardless of how it is done, if there has

been significant growth, it is not possible to eliminate or to kill

all spores and since there are billions of them, there will always be

enough left to start growing again. The trick is to prevent the

moisture (leaks, high humidity) from ever again providing the proper

conditions for growth.

>

> In my opinion, all affected bare wood surfaces should be sealed.

This will prevent any residual material left on a surface from ever

becoming aerosolized. As I have said before, for people with chemical

sensitivities, 50% diluted Elmer's glue can be used instead of paints

or other sealants that off gas. No spores or mycotoxins can be

aerosolized from a surface that is properly cleaned and sealed.

>

> If there are any mycotoxins present in the home, apart from the

surfaces where there was actual growth, the only meaningful

mycotoxins present would be in the dust, so getting rid of all dust

is essential. Don't forget the tops of door and window trim, the

insides of electric boxes (outlets, switches, etc.) and light

fixtures, the insulation in stoves, refrigerators, dishwashers and

other appliances (particularly those with air flows), etc. etc.

>

> Use great care around all electrical connections; use only plastic

vacuum wands, not metal! turn power off to fixtures, etc. whenever

possible.)

>

> I do not believe that there are any products that would be more

effective than very thorough elimination of all dust.

>

> Baseboard convectors have to be taken apart and cleaned of all

dust. (The best way to do this is to HEPA vacuum, then blast the fin

tubing with steam vapor from a steam vapor machine, using cloth below

to catch dust and condensed water. (Operate an exhaust fan to take

out any dust that aerosolizes.) Ducts from AC and heating systems can

never be completely cleaned of residual dust, but cleaning of an air

conveyance system is certainly a step that should be taken.

>

> I think that many people are overly concerned about mycotoxins

without ever knowing if any are even involved. Sending off a sample

of house dust can certainly give you an idea if mycotoxins are

present. If you have hot air heat, you could take all the dust from

a dirty filter (or from a HEPA prefilter purifier) or take all the

dust from your refrigerator coils (which collect dust from the air).

These samples will give you an idea of what you have been breathing.

>

> For seeing if it is in your settled dust, you could vacuum carpets

and other house dust into a clean bag, then send the bag off for

analysis. I believe that Aerotech does mycotoxin analysis of dust

samples.

>

> Old radiators are also a great source of house dust; purchase a 36 "

vacuum crevice tool to get the dust out and into a vacuum bag.

>

> For meaningful results, you would probably need at least a quarter

cup of dust but check with the lab. The more you can collect, the

more likely you are to detect mycotoxins if any are present.

>

> In the end, testing may prove too costly since you don't know what

> mycotoxins to test for and there are many. I have only sent out

house dust for testing once. The dust came from the refrigerator

coils in a house that had Aspergillus ochraceus growing in the ducts

(on dog food!) and a very high level of ochratoxin-A (a mycotoxin

from the Aspergillus)in the duct dust. We were lookingg for the

presence of this specific mycotoxin and surprisingly, no mycotoxin

was detected in the collected dust.

>

> Of course, fleecy surfaces (carpets, cushions, dog beds, etc.) that

contain residual dust that can never be removed and items such as

these will always be suspect. They should be removed from the space

and replaced or sealed.

>

> For a legal case, I needed evidence from house dust of the prior

conditions there. I removed the cover from a dial thermostat (which

has significant air flow through it due to the presence of an

internal heater) and found a large clump of dust. In the dust, I

found (using a microscope) all the evidence I needed for the past

presence of pets, mold and paint spraying.

>

> C. May, M.A., CIAQP

> May Indoor Air Investigations LLC

> 3 Tolkien Lane

> Tyngsborough, MA 01879

> 617-354-1055

> www.mayindoorair.com

> www.myhouseiskillingme.com

[Guest guest]

Pam, I had to seal off my attic from house to prevent any air from

seeping down from there into house through any openings in ceiling and

walls, and the surprise outcome was that the humidity level in my

house dropped by 10%. I used to have two dehumidifiers going full

time in my basement and yet I could not get humidity down below the

low 50's, but now it is in the low 40's even though I keep the

temperatures in the upper 70's, 78-79. **I ALSO put shrink wrap on

the windows. This was not to keep outdoor air from coming in but

another step to keep air from wall cavities from getting into house.

That is because they are old windows that fit loosely in wall and

couldn't seal air from wall cavities out of house without covering

windows with plastic. The windows have storm windows also. So I cut

back on both sources of hot, humid air, those from attic down into

house and from outside, but *in my house*. I thought the shrink wrap

on windows would make the house hot, just because I associate it with

winterizing but found it is just as helpful as in winter. SO, if you

want to keep the humidity out and you do NOT have insulating windows,

you may try the shrink wrap. Looks a bit odd at this time of year but

the indoor air q is more important and huge savings on a/c bills as I

had to keep house cooler than I wanted also.

--- In , " Pam Gibbard " <pqgibbard@...>

wrote:

>

> Humidity this winter in my bedroom was

> around 30% but of course shot up in the North Carolina summer. I set

> the A/C pretty low to keep the RH around 50-55%. To lower it more

> makes the house way too cold for me.

[Guest guest]

Thanx so much for this feedback - that's very helpful. Since the

house is only 19 years old I do have double-glazed windows but I

certainly need to have the attic checked (probably the crawl space

again also).

> >

> > Humidity this winter in my bedroom was

> > around 30% but of course shot up in the North Carolina summer. I

set

> > the A/C pretty low to keep the RH around 50-55%. To lower it more

> > makes the house way too cold for me.

>

[Guest guest]

I’ve been following the discussions about the MDF500 product and its

effectiveness. Our company has been instrumental in its commercialization since

2001. I tell you this to be honest about my bias for the product.

The info from Jeff May is accurate, but somewhat incomplete. The origin of the

product was initiated by the Dept. of Energy to counter an attack by terrorists

on power plants. Sandia Labs developed a broad spectrum decontaminate that was

non-toxic, non- corrosive and able to decontaminate not only biological

(anthrax, botulism, ect.),

but chemical weapons (Sarin gas, VX ect.) as well. The original formulation

was a binary product (primarily quats and an 8% solution of hydrogen peroxide

(HO3)) delivered as foam. The reformulations used mostly by commercial

contractors today are delivered as a fog.

The reason the product works so well is that the quats hydrolyze the protein

walls of mold and mold spores, then the HO3 disrupts (oxidizes) the nucleic

material, killing the mold and rendering the spores incapable of reproduction.

The mycotoxins are basically gases (microbial volatile organic compounds (mvoc)

that aids mold in digestion of food and protection from other species of mold.

The MDF500 is unique in its ability to neutralize these mycotoxins when properly

applied.

The MDF500 should only be used by persons with experience and proper training

in the use of anti-microbials. The product is not a ‘silver bullet” for mold. It

should be considered a tool to be used In conjunction with other proven

remediation protocols. This said, the proper use by professionals can save a

client time and money on most remediation projects.

Best regards,

Bill Simms, CIAQP

VP Operations

Innovative Decon Solutions, LLC

813 514-0919 Office

813 514-1064 Fax

bsimms@...

ssr3351@... wrote:

I'd love to learn more about it. What's the name of the company and website?

Thanks,

Sue

[Guest guest]

Bill,

A couple of comments on your statements. It may have nothing to do

with the efficacy of MDF500 but needs to be corrected. There's enough

confusion already about the various components of mold biomass.

" The mycotoxins are basically gases (microbial volatile organic

compounds (mvoc) that aids mold in digestion of food and protection

from other species of mold. "

Mycotoxins may be molecular like gasses but they are not gasses and

are not volatile organic compounds. None of the identified mycotoxins

have been categorized as MVOCs. Enzymes, not mycotoxins, are involved

with " digesting " food. The " digestion " by the way takes place outside

the cell wall because mold doesn't have an internal digestive systems

like animals do. The cell oozes enzymes to break down the surface the

cell is on. If successful the " digested " substance then moves by

osmosis through the cell wall to the inside of the cell. But you are

right that mycotoxins are a defense against other molds.

" The MDF500 is unique in its ability to neutralize these mycotoxins

when properly applied. "

I have not heard of that claim before. What is the proper application

of MDF 500 for neutralizing mycotoxins? Is it any different than the

application for killing mold? Also, because killing mold gains us

little, does MDF 500 denature mold so it won't trigger allergic

reactions?

Carl Grimes

Healthy Habitats LLC

-----

> I’ve been following the discussions about the MDF500 product and its

effectiveness. Our company has been instrumental in its commercialization since

2001. I tell you this to be honest about my bias for the product.

> The info from Jeff May is accurate, but somewhat incomplete. The origin of

the product was initiated by the Dept. of Energy to counter an attack by

terrorists on power plants. Sandia Labs developed a broad spectrum decontaminate

that was non-toxic, non- corrosive and able to decontaminate not only biological

(anthrax, botulism, ect.),

> but chemical weapons (Sarin gas, VX ect.) as well. The original formulation

was a binary product (primarily quats and an 8% solution of hydrogen peroxide

(HO3)) delivered as foam. The reformulations used mostly by commercial

contractors today are delivered as a fog.

>

> The reason the product works so well is that the quats hydrolyze the protein

walls of mold and mold spores, then the HO3 disrupts (oxidizes) the nucleic

material, killing the mold and rendering the spores incapable of reproduction.

The mycotoxins are basically gases (microbial volatile organic compounds (mvoc)

that aids mold in digestion of food and protection from other species of mold.

The MDF500 is unique in its ability to neutralize these mycotoxins when properly

applied.

>

> The MDF500 should only be used by persons with experience and proper

training in the use of anti-microbials. The product is not a ‘silver bullet” for

mold. It should be considered a tool to be used In conjunction with other proven

remediation protocols. This said, the proper use by professionals can save a

client time and money on most remediation projects.

>

> Best regards,

>

> Bill Simms, CIAQP

> VP Operations

> Innovative Decon Solutions, LLC

> 813 514-0919 Office

> 813 514-1064 Fax

> bsimms@...

>

>

> ssr3351@... wrote:

> I'd love to learn more about it. What's the name of the company and website?

>

> Thanks,

> Sue

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bill,

Have you tested your product in use against the family of mycotoxins

produced by stachybotrys mold?

The reason I'm asking is because as I'm sure you are aware, they have proven

much more difficult to get rid of.

The consnsus here and in advice we have solicited from researchers is that

they are much more of a chemical challenge and are much more persistant and

resistant to methods that do work with other mycotoxins and biocontaminants

like bacteria, etc.

Stachybotrys mold ends up producing a sort of greasy film that coats things

and to say its difficult to get rid of has to be the understatement of the

year.. its EXTREMELY difficult to get rid of.. clothing and other items that

have been washed, HEPA vacummned, etc, many times, many times, often retain

the ability to cause noticable amounts of inflammation for a long time.

Plastics, such as fleece items, car upholstery, and many other things - even

more than cotton, seem to hold on to this.. whatever, for much longer than

anyone would expect...that been many people here's experience..

To find a product that would truly get rid of that for good would be GREAT..

it wouldn't just be great, it would be a godsend, helping many people

recover much faster.

So please tell us more specifics especially about how it works on

trichothecenes, and how/if/where/when it has been verified to work, how to

use it, where we can buy it, pricing, etc.

The nuts and bolts of this product..