Re: 45 minute ARD

[Guest guest]

45min? what's the matter with this people. Maybe they are genius , they can make a lifetime decision in a very short time. I just had my son's ARD. It was a good ARD because we agreed , no conflicts , very happy ARD.. We started at 845am and we finished it at 155pm. I had concerns about a speech device for him, we disagree from the evaluation that school district did. We talked about it in the minutes, we came to a discussion (very friendly) and we agreed what was the BEST for the KID. No for the school no for me. FOR THE KID.WE review the goals, THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DEAL . HOW could you do it in 45min? I don't get it. OH! we have a GREAT ADVOCATE. !!!! he won't leave any detail, no type errors, no if's without a clear

answer. DON'T LET SCHOOL TO TIME YOU I went throw that and MY son suffer for 3long years. DON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE. Thanks to the Advocate my son is receiving THE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION , HE IS MAKING A GOOD PROGRESS, IT may sound bad but I doubt that he was able to learn and now he knows the planets, oceans, knows about museums, YES HE HAS behavior problems but the school WORK WITH HIM, they are fully train and have the knowledge about what is autism and how to work with a kid. (PRIVATE school but school district is paying for it) IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION . YOUR kid HAS THE RIGHT TO HAVE A FREE AND APPROPRIATE EDUCATION. please don't let the school to intimidate you . ok . Good luck in your ARDs!RosieSubject: Re: 45 minute ARDTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 5:32 PM

I had a advocate to go with me and we started at 2:45PM and recessed at 9PM. The school was not a happy camper. Anyone in the Gulf Coast Arc might want to check with them for an advocate. This was about 11 years ago. The school was a disastor waiting to happen and hasn't improved since.

>

> That’s so funny, Hilda. We had a 4 hour ARD once, and I’ve always figured I’ve now got a reputation as

> the troublemaking mom.

> But you should be proud for watching out for your kid!

>

> Marilyn

>

> From: Hilda Bowen

> Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:23 PM

> To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

> Subject: RE: 45 minute ARD

>

>

>

>

> Two years ago we had about 20 hours of pre-ARD meetings because they could not write a proper goal and then 40 hours of ARD time (at least) from March until June (the last day of school). God they hated me. LOL.

>

>

>

> Hilda

>

[Guest guest]

I see all us old timers are posting so I had to chime in! They cannot give you a time. You run the ARD the ARD isn't over till you agree. My ARDS are about an hour now because he's fully included so we no longer need sheets and sheets of IEP's. When we do make a new one I offer the verbiage and we all get a chuckle. I even make jokes now like the one this year " Student will learn to put one foot in front of the other three out of four trials across three environments with seventy percent accuracy as measured by the OT. "

My school once called me " A good Advocate for my son " Which I am certain got me on some kind of black list for awhile in 6th grade when the teacher told the aides not to speak to me. Now that he uses a letterboard with his aide he can tell everyone what he needs and what his weaknesses are, he even made some of his own goals this year.

Be careful taking an advocate make sure this person has similar long term outcome ideas. Sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for it may not actually be as good as you thought. I once thought I needed several hours a day of ABA I see now that a more diverse approach would have been preferable, still one to one but different methodologies as a blend.

Trina

 

45min? what's the matter with this people. Maybe they are genius , they can make a lifetime decision in a very short time. I just had my son's ARD. It was a good ARD because we agreed , no conflicts , very happy ARD.. We started at 845am and we finished it at 155pm. I had concerns about a speech device for him, we disagree from the evaluation that school district did. We talked about it in the minutes, we came to a discussion (very friendly) and we agreed what was the BEST for the KID. No for the school no for me. FOR THE KID.

WE review the goals, THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DEAL . HOW could you do it in 45min? I don't get it. OH! we have a GREAT  ADVOCATE. !!!! he won't leave any detail, no type errors, no if's without a clear answer. DON'T LET SCHOOL TO TIME YOU  I went throw that and MY son suffer for 3long years. DON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE.

Thanks to the Advocate my son is receiving THE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION , HE IS MAKING A GOOD PROGRESS, IT may sound bad but I doubt that he was able to learn and now he knows the planets, oceans, knows about museums, YES HE HAS behavior problems but the school WORK WITH HIM, they are fully train and have the knowledge about what is autism and how to work with a kid. (PRIVATE school but school district is paying for it) IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION . YOUR kid HAS THE RIGHT TO HAVE A FREE AND APPROPRIATE EDUCATION. please don't let the school to intimidate you .

ok . Good luck in your ARDs!Rosie

Subject: Re: 45 minute ARDTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 5:32 PM

 

I had a advocate to go with me and we started at 2:45PM and recessed at 9PM. The school was not a happy camper. Anyone in the Gulf Coast Arc might want to check with them for an advocate. This was about 11 years ago. The school was a disastor waiting to happen and hasn't improved since.

>> That’s so funny, Hilda. We had a 4 hour ARD once, and I’ve always figured I’ve now got a reputation as

> the troublemaking mom. > But you should be proud for watching out for your kid!> > Marilyn> > From: Hilda Bowen > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:23 PM> To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

> Subject: RE: 45 minute ARD> > > > > Two years ago we had about 20 hours of pre-ARD meetings because they could not write a proper goal and then 40 hours of ARD time (at least) from March until June (the last day of school). God they hated me. LOL.

> > > > Hilda>

[Guest guest]

So is there somewhere in IDEA or somewhere that states that the ARD goes on until you all agree or disagree and that a time limit cannot be imposed?

Thanks.

From: Sherman

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 11:03 PM

To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Re: 45 minute ARD

I see all us old timers are posting so I had to chime in! They cannot give you a time. You run the ARD the ARD isn't over till you agree. My ARDS are about an hour now because he's fully included so we no longer need sheets and sheets of IEP's. When we do make a new one I offer the verbiage and we all get a chuckle. I even make jokes now like the one this year "Student will learn to put one foot in front of the other three out of four trials across three environments with seventy percent accuracy as measured by the OT."

My school once called me "A good Advocate for my son" Which I am certain got me on some kind of black list for awhile in 6th grade when the teacher told the aides not to speak to me. Now that he uses a letterboard with his aide he can tell everyone what he needs and what his weaknesses are, he even made some of his own goals this year.

Be careful taking an advocate make sure this person has similar long term outcome ideas. Sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for it may not actually be as good as you thought. I once thought I needed several hours a day of ABA I see now that a more diverse approach would have been preferable, still one to one but different methodologies as a blend.

Trina

45min? what's the matter with this people. Maybe they are genius , they can make a lifetime decision in a very short time. I just had my son's ARD. It was a good ARD because we agreed , no conflicts , very happy ARD.. We started at 845am and we finished it at 155pm. I had concerns about a speech device for him, we disagree from the evaluation that school district did. We talked about it in the minutes, we came to a discussion (very friendly) and we agreed what was the BEST for the KID. No for the school no for me. FOR THE KID.WE review the goals, THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DEAL . HOW could you do it in 45min? I don't get it. OH! we have a GREAT ADVOCATE. !!!! he won't leave any detail, no type errors, no if's without a clear answer. DON'T LET SCHOOL TO TIME YOU I went throw that and MY son suffer for 3long years. DON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE. Thanks to the Advocate my son is receiving THE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION , HE IS MAKING A GOOD PROGRESS, IT may sound bad but I doubt that he was able to learn and now he knows the planets, oceans, knows about museums, YES HE HAS behavior problems but the school WORK WITH HIM, they are fully train and have the knowledge about what is autism and how to work with a kid. (PRIVATE school but school district is paying for it) IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION . YOUR kid HAS THE RIGHT TO HAVE A FREE AND APPROPRIATE EDUCATION. please don't let the school to intimidate you . ok . Good luck in your ARDs!Rosie

Subject: Re: 45 minute ARDTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 5:32 PM

I had a advocate to go with me and we started at 2:45PM and recessed at 9PM. The school was not a happy camper. Anyone in the Gulf Coast Arc might want to check with them for an advocate. This was about 11 years ago. The school was a disastor waiting to happen and hasn't improved since.>> That’s so funny, Hilda. We had a 4 hour ARD once, and I’ve always figured I’ve now got a reputation as > the troublemaking mom. > But you should be proud for watching out for your kid!> > Marilyn> > From: Hilda Bowen > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:23 PM> To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy > Subject: RE: 45 minute ARD> > > > > Two years ago we had about 20 hours of pre-ARD meetings because they could not write a proper goal and then 40 hours of ARD time (at least) from March until June (the last day of school). God they hated me. LOL.> > > > Hilda>

[Guest guest]

Hmmm, not sure perhaps Haven will chime in. I do know that every time I go to one of these they are all very much on edge about me signing and there have been times when I had to take the reigns away and ask questions and not agree  with IEP's as to not be bullied. There really is no reason to have a very long ARD if you all have agreed to the terms before the meeting. But in the meeting the wording can change so read it carefully. Sometimes what the teachers want gets nixed by administration due to budget issues. They can't say that of course it's against the law but there are lots of ways around that. If you have a particularly difficult district do take an advocate.

 

 

 

 

So is there somewhere in IDEA or somewhere that states that the ARD goes on until you all agree or disagree and that a time limit cannot be imposed?

Thanks.

 

From: Sherman

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 11:03 PM

To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Re: 45 minute ARD

 

 

I see all us old timers are posting so I had to chime in! They cannot give you a time. You run the ARD the ARD isn't over till you agree. My ARDS are about an hour now because he's fully included so we no longer need sheets and sheets of IEP's. When we do make a new one I offer the verbiage and we all get a chuckle. I even make jokes now like the one this year " Student will learn to put one foot in front of the other three out of four trials across three environments with seventy percent accuracy as measured by the OT. "

My school once called me " A good Advocate for my son " Which I am certain got me on some kind of black list for awhile in 6th grade when the teacher told the aides not to speak to me. Now that he uses a letterboard with his aide he can tell everyone what he needs and what his weaknesses are, he even made some of his own goals this year.

Be careful taking an advocate make sure this person has similar long term outcome ideas. Sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for it may not actually be as good as you thought. I once thought I needed several hours a day of ABA I see now that a more diverse approach would have been preferable, still one to one but different methodologies as a blend.

Trina

 

45min? what's the matter with this people. Maybe they are genius , they can make a lifetime decision in a very short time. I just had my son's ARD. It was a good ARD because we agreed , no conflicts , very happy ARD.. We started at 845am and we finished it at 155pm. I had concerns about a speech device for him, we disagree from the evaluation that school district did. We talked about it in the minutes, we came to a discussion (very friendly) and we agreed what was the BEST for the KID. No for the school no for me. FOR THE KID.WE review the goals, THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DEAL . HOW could you do it in 45min? I don't get it. OH! we have a GREAT  ADVOCATE. !!!! he won't leave any detail, no type errors, no if's without a clear answer. DON'T LET SCHOOL TO TIME YOU  I went throw that and MY son suffer for 3long years. DON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE. Thanks to the Advocate my son is receiving THE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION , HE IS MAKING A GOOD PROGRESS, IT may sound bad but I doubt that he was able to learn and now he knows the planets, oceans, knows about museums, YES HE HAS behavior problems but the school WORK WITH HIM, they are fully train and have the knowledge about what is autism and how to work with a kid. (PRIVATE school but school district is paying for it) IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION . YOUR kid HAS THE RIGHT TO HAVE A FREE AND APPROPRIATE EDUCATION. please don't let the school to intimidate you . ok . Good luck in your ARDs!Rosie

Subject: Re: 45 minute ARDTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 5:32 PM

 

I had a advocate to go with me and we started at 2:45PM and recessed at 9PM. The school was not a happy camper. Anyone in the Gulf Coast Arc might want to check with them for an advocate. This was about 11 years ago. The school was a disastor waiting to happen and hasn't improved since.>> That’s so funny, Hilda. We had a 4 hour ARD once, and I’ve always figured I’ve now got a reputation as > the troublemaking mom. > But you should be proud for watching out for your kid!> > Marilyn> > From: Hilda Bowen > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:23 PM> To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy > Subject: RE: 45 minute ARD> > > > > Two years ago we had about 20 hours of pre-ARD meetings because they could not write a proper goal and then 40 hours of ARD time (at least) from March until June (the last day of school). God they hated me. LOL.> > > > Hilda>

 

[Guest guest]

And if you are concerned about how and why IEPs are written, or how goals will be measured and data collection, or why certain targets are identified, it is better to do that in the ARD and get it on record.Adina To:

Texas-Autism-Advocacy Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 10:48 PM Subject: Re: Re: 45 minute ARD

Hmmm, not sure perhaps Haven will chime in. I do know that every time I go to one of these they are all very much on edge about me signing and there have been times when I had to take the reigns away and ask questions and not agree with IEP's as to not be bullied. There really is no reason to have a very long ARD if you all have agreed to the terms before the meeting. But in the meeting the wording can change so read it carefully. Sometimes what the teachers want gets nixed by administration due to budget issues. They can't say that of course it's against the law but there are lots of ways around that. If you have a particularly difficult district do take an advocate.

So is there somewhere in IDEA or somewhere that states that the ARD goes on until you all agree or disagree and that a time limit cannot be imposed?

Thanks.

From: Sherman

Sent: Friday, February 17, 2012 11:03 PM

To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy

Subject: Re: Re: 45 minute ARD

I see all us old timers are posting so I had to chime in! They cannot give you a time. You run the ARD the ARD isn't over till you agree. My ARDS are about an hour now because he's fully included so we no longer need sheets and sheets of IEP's. When we do make a new one I offer the verbiage and we all get a chuckle. I even make jokes now like the one this year "Student will learn to put one foot in front of the other three out of four trials across three environments with seventy percent accuracy as measured by the OT."

My school once called me "A good Advocate for my son" Which I am certain got me on some kind of black list for awhile in 6th grade when the teacher told the aides not to speak to me. Now that he uses a letterboard with his aide he can tell everyone what he needs and what his weaknesses are, he even made some of his own goals this year.

Be careful taking an advocate make sure this person has similar long term outcome ideas. Sometimes you need to be careful what you wish for it may not actually be as good as you thought. I once thought I needed several hours a day of ABA I see now that a more diverse approach would have been preferable, still one to one but different methodologies as a blend.

Trina

45min? what's the matter with this people. Maybe they are genius , they can make a lifetime decision in a very short time. I just had my son's ARD. It was a good ARD because we agreed , no conflicts , very happy ARD.. We started at 845am and we finished it at 155pm. I had concerns about a speech device for him, we disagree from the evaluation that school district did. We talked about it in the minutes, we came to a discussion (very friendly) and we agreed what was the BEST for the KID. No for the school no for me. FOR THE KID.WE review the goals, THIS IS A VERY IMPORTANT DEAL . HOW could you do it in 45min? I don't get it. OH! we have a GREAT ADVOCATE. !!!! he won't leave any detail, no type errors, no if's without a clear answer. DON'T LET SCHOOL TO TIME YOU I went throw that and MY son suffer for 3long years. DON'T MAKE THAT MISTAKE. Thanks to the Advocate my son is receiving THE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION , HE IS MAKING A GOOD PROGRESS, IT may sound bad but I doubt that he was able to learn and now he knows the planets, oceans, knows about museums, YES HE HAS behavior problems but the school WORK WITH HIM, they are fully train and have the knowledge about what is autism and how to work with a kid. (PRIVATE school but school district is paying for it) IF THEY DON'T HAVE THE APPROPRIATE EDUCATION . YOUR kid HAS THE RIGHT TO HAVE A FREE AND APPROPRIATE EDUCATION. please don't let the school to intimidate you . ok . Good luck in your ARDs!Rosie

Subject: Re: 45 minute ARDTo: Texas-Autism-Advocacy Date: Friday, February 17, 2012, 5:32 PM

I had a advocate to go with me and we started at 2:45PM and recessed at 9PM. The school was not a happy camper. Anyone in the Gulf Coast Arc might want to check with them for an advocate. This was about 11 years ago. The school was a disastor waiting to happen and hasn't improved since.>> That’s so funny, Hilda. We had a 4 hour ARD once, and I’ve always figured I’ve now got a reputation as > the troublemaking mom. > But you should be proud for watching out for your kid!> > Marilyn> > From: Hilda Bowen > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 9:23 PM> To: Texas-Autism-Advocacy > Subject: RE: 45 minute ARD> > > > > Two years ago we had about 20 hours of pre-ARD meetings because they could not write a proper goal and then 40 hours of ARD time (at least) from March until June (the last day of school). God they hated me. LOL.> > > > Hilda>

[Guest guest]

I remember reading that if the parent disagrees, then the ARD committee

has so many days to come up with a new plan. It might be in that book

they have to give you at all the ARDs.

Love and prayers,

Heidi N

> So is there somewhere in IDEA or somewhere that states that the ARD

> goes on until you all agree or disagree and that a time limit cannot be

> imposed?

> Thanks.

>

[Guest guest]

The important thing to note is that there is NOTHING In the IDEA that allows a district to LIMIT the amount of time it takes to reach an appropriate IEP.  What that means is that it goes on until you either reach an agreement or you ask for mediation as you cannot reach mutual agreement or  you file Due Process due to non-agreement, and at that time mediation will (and must) be offered as an option.

Districts CANNOT rush you into signing something you are not comfortable signing, and they cannot bully you into doing so. Now they CAN allot 45 minutes for this particular meeting.  That is within their rights, but you DO NOT have to reach agreement in that amount of time.  So you sometimes have to play " the game. "   They tell you  you only have 45 minutes, but they don't tell you that legally you don't have to reach agreement in that time.  But now you know this.  Now it is up to you to not be intimidated by their time limitation.

They will find NOTHING in the law to substantiate limiting the amount of time it takes.  They can either give you another meeting (and even another if that is what it takes) or they will find themselves either in mediation or due process, and in DP it will not look good on them if it is found they tried to rush you to agreement.  Some will even try to bully you, so be prepared.  Sometimes you have to steel yourself and give as good as you get. --but let them lose their cool.  You walk and talk softly but carry a big, proverbial stick.

I have even seen in some districts someone really get nasty and sound like the Gestapo,''Ah, yes, but you must sign zee paper!  Sign zee paper! It's zee law! "   If that happens, shove the IDEA law book at them and tell them to point that law out to you (that really ticks them off).  Too bad. They won't find any law to support it, and then they will be in trouble for trying to bully you into signing before you are ready. (and of course TAPE the meeting!)

If you need more time, then table the discussion and they HAVE TO reconvene the committee within ten days.  That. is procedural.  If they want to violate procedure.... well that's their stupidity.What the law states is that an IEP must be developed that meets the unique needs of the child and addresses all areas of suspected disability and is designed to move the child forward towards post-secondary education, independent living, and employment.  It has to be done.  there is no time limit so long as you want to continue to try.

However, they may get to a point where they...let's say they say something like " Well this is it.  Take it or leave it. "   Then they have again broken procedure becasue they can't say that, but at that point they will look very bad if you go to DP, so it is in their best interest to keep trying.

Keep in mind that districts often push parent to the brink of DP before consenting to service, therapies, methodology etc.... They figure most parents will grow tired and weary and back down and just take it.  If they come up against a parent who doesn't, then that is a whole new ball game.

But also keep in mind that smaller districts are more afraid of DP than the larger ones.  the larger ones have more of the taxpayers' money to spend on legal fees than the smaller ones do.And here we sit discussing these things.  sickening to have to think about when one considers that between the years of around 2004 - 2006 or so, Texas school districts spent roughly 58 MILLION dollars fighting special ed parents in DP and beyond.  58 MILLION dollars put in a special needs educational trust and managed properly could have put Texas at the forefront of special education rather than wallowing in the basement of it. 

There needs to be something done t level that playing field.  Either tax the dollars SD's spend on legal fees or put a limit.  The parents are certainly limited in their resources, and this certainly goes against the " appropriate " interests of the child.

Parents in Texas must grow thick skins if they aim to advocate effectively for their children in this state.  Your position is that your child can learn, improve, and go on to live a worthwhile life.  Their position is to save money and spend it on children who are NT.  They can't say that, but that is the truth, and that is unfortunately what we are up against.

If you need more time to win a proper IEP for your child, then you have to take it.  There is no law that says you have only 45 minutes to get it done.Hope this helps.

[Guest guest]

thanks Haven good info. My thing is i know we can table and return later but i want to avoid that. last year we had like 4 ards of a total of about 6 hrs and it was stressful having to come back each time cause it just gave them more time to pin against me. the only reason for the 45 min limit is because this is the gen ed teachers conf time. i requested that we be able to continue past 45 min if we are still discussing. i think as long as everyone agrees that the gen ed teacher is not needed we can continue so we shall see! Sent from my iPhone

The important thing to note is that there is NOTHING In the IDEA that allows a district to LIMIT the amount of time it takes to reach an appropriate IEP. What that means is that it goes on until you either reach an agreement or you ask for mediation as you cannot reach mutual agreement or you file Due Process due to non-agreement, and at that time mediation will (and must) be offered as an option.

Districts CANNOT rush you into signing something you are not comfortable signing, and they cannot bully you into doing so. Now they CAN allot 45 minutes for this particular meeting. That is within their rights, but you DO NOT have to reach agreement in that amount of time. So you sometimes have to play "the game." They tell you you only have 45 minutes, but they don't tell you that legally you don't have to reach agreement in that time. But now you know this. Now it is up to you to not be intimidated by their time limitation.

They will find NOTHING in the law to substantiate limiting the amount of time it takes. They can either give you another meeting (and even another if that is what it takes) or they will find themselves either in mediation or due process, and in DP it will not look good on them if it is found they tried to rush you to agreement. Some will even try to bully you, so be prepared. Sometimes you have to steel yourself and give as good as you get. --but let them lose their cool. You walk and talk softly but carry a big, proverbial stick.

I have even seen in some districts someone really get nasty and sound like the Gestapo,''Ah, yes, but you must sign zee paper! Sign zee paper! It's zee law!" If that happens, shove the IDEA law book at them and tell them to point that law out to you (that really ticks them off). Too bad. They won't find any law to support it, and then they will be in trouble for trying to bully you into signing before you are ready. (and of course TAPE the meeting!)

If you need more time, then table the discussion and they HAVE TO reconvene the committee within ten days. That. is procedural. If they want to violate procedure.... well that's their stupidity.What the law states is that an IEP must be developed that meets the unique needs of the child and addresses all areas of suspected disability and is designed to move the child forward towards post-secondary education, independent living, and employment. It has to be done. there is no time limit so long as you want to continue to try.

However, they may get to a point where they...let's say they say something like "Well this is it. Take it or leave it." Then they have again broken procedure becasue they can't say that, but at that point they will look very bad if you go to DP, so it is in their best interest to keep trying.

Keep in mind that districts often push parent to the brink of DP before consenting to service, therapies, methodology etc.... They figure most parents will grow tired and weary and back down and just take it. If they come up against a parent who doesn't, then that is a whole new ball game.

But also keep in mind that smaller districts are more afraid of DP than the larger ones. the larger ones have more of the taxpayers' money to spend on legal fees than the smaller ones do.And here we sit discussing these things. sickening to have to think about when one considers that between the years of around 2004 - 2006 or so, Texas school districts spent roughly 58 MILLION dollars fighting special ed parents in DP and beyond. 58 MILLION dollars put in a special needs educational trust and managed properly could have put Texas at the forefront of special education rather than wallowing in the basement of it.

There needs to be something done t level that playing field. Either tax the dollars SD's spend on legal fees or put a limit. The parents are certainly limited in their resources, and this certainly goes against the "appropriate" interests of the child.

Parents in Texas must grow thick skins if they aim to advocate effectively for their children in this state. Your position is that your child can learn, improve, and go on to live a worthwhile life. Their position is to save money and spend it on children who are NT. They can't say that, but that is the truth, and that is unfortunately what we are up against.

If you need more time to win a proper IEP for your child, then you have to take it. There is no law that says you have only 45 minutes to get it done.Hope this helps.

[Guest guest]

If you are looking at LRE, I would suggest you not dismiss gen ed teacher, but a specials teacher can also act as gen ed, so they should be able to arrange that. They can also hire a substitute for gen ed using administrative funds, or use another teacher or para to cover the class. They are really being unreasonable..,.Adina To: "Texas-Autism-Advocacy " <Texas-Autism-Advocacy > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2012 7:26 AM Subject: Re: Re: 45 minute ARD

thanks Haven good info. My thing is i know we can table and return later but i want to avoid that. last year we had like 4 ards of a total of about 6 hrs and it was stressful having to come back each time cause it just gave them more time to pin against me. the only reason for the 45 min limit is because this is the gen ed teachers conf time. i requested that we be able to continue past 45 min if we are still discussing. i think as long as everyone agrees that the gen ed teacher is not needed we can continue so we shall see! Sent from my iPhone

The important thing to note is that there is NOTHING In the IDEA that allows a district to LIMIT the amount of time it takes to reach an appropriate IEP. What that means is that it goes on until you either reach an agreement or you ask for mediation as you cannot reach mutual agreement or you file Due Process due to non-agreement, and at that time mediation will (and must) be offered as an option.

Districts CANNOT rush you into signing something you are not comfortable signing, and they cannot bully you into doing so. Now they CAN allot 45 minutes for this particular meeting. That is within their rights, but you DO NOT have to reach agreement in that amount of time. So you sometimes have to play "the game." They tell you you only have 45 minutes, but they don't tell you that legally you don't have to reach agreement in that time. But now you know this. Now it is up to you to not be intimidated by their time limitation.

They will find NOTHING in the law to substantiate limiting the amount of time it takes. They can either give you another meeting (and even another if that is what it takes) or they will find themselves either in mediation or due process, and in DP it will not look good on them if it is found they tried to rush you to agreement. Some will even try to bully you, so be prepared. Sometimes you have to steel yourself and give as good as you get. --but let them lose their cool. You walk and talk softly but carry a big, proverbial stick.

I have even seen in some districts someone really get nasty and sound like the Gestapo,''Ah, yes, but you must sign zee paper! Sign zee paper! It's zee law!" If that happens, shove the IDEA law book at them and tell them to point that law out to you (that really ticks them off). Too bad. They won't find any law to support it, and then they will be in trouble for trying to bully you into signing before you are ready. (and of course TAPE the meeting!)

If you need more time, then table the discussion and they HAVE TO reconvene the committee within ten days. That. is procedural. If they want to violate procedure.... well that's their stupidity.What the law states is that an IEP must be developed that meets the unique needs of the child and addresses all areas of suspected disability and is designed to move the child forward towards post-secondary education, independent living, and employment. It has to be done. there is no time limit so long as you want to continue to try.

However, they may get to a point where they...let's say they say something like "Well this is it. Take it or leave it." Then they have again broken procedure becasue they can't say that, but at that point they will look very bad if you go to DP, so it is in their best interest to keep trying.

Keep in mind that districts often push parent to the brink of DP before consenting to service, therapies, methodology etc.... They figure most parents will grow tired and weary and back down and just take it. If they come up against a parent who doesn't, then that is a whole new ball game.

But also keep in mind that smaller districts are more afraid of DP than the larger ones. the larger ones have more of the taxpayers' money to spend on legal fees than the smaller ones do.And here we sit discussing these things. sickening to have to think about when one considers that between the years of around 2004 - 2006 or so, Texas school districts spent roughly 58 MILLION dollars fighting special ed parents in DP and beyond. 58 MILLION dollars put in a special needs educational trust and managed properly could have put Texas at the forefront of special education rather than wallowing in the basement of it.

There needs to be something done t level that playing field. Either tax the dollars SD's spend on legal fees or put a limit. The parents are certainly limited in their resources, and this certainly goes against the "appropriate" interests of the child.

Parents in Texas must grow thick skins if they aim to advocate effectively for their children in this state. Your position is that your child can learn, improve, and go on to live a worthwhile life. Their position is to save money and spend it on children who are NT. They can't say that, but that is the truth, and that is unfortunately what we are up against.

If you need more time to win a proper IEP for your child, then you have to take it. There is no law that says you have only 45 minutes to get it done.Hope this helps.

[Guest guest]

While it may be true that IDEA is silent regarding the district's right to limit

ARD meetings to 45 minutes, there is nothing to prevent them from doing it

either. I would request the district through an Open Records Request to

provide you with written documentation regarding this rule. If the time

limitation requires multiple meetings to develop the IEP requiring the parent to

get off work which may be difficult, then the district may need to conduct these

meetings in the evenings after work. If the additional meetings make it

impossible for the parent to attend, then potentially a case can be made that

the parent is not an equal participant in the proceedings which could tantamount

to a denial of a FAPE to the student. I would send the district a letter

expressing your concern that you are not being treated as an equal particpant in

the development of your child's IEP. I generally do not recommend mediaton to a

client outside of due process as it is has been my experience that parties do

not sincerely negotiate unless they believe that a disinterested third party

will rule against them. There are other things that you could as well to

advocate for your child and space and time do not permit me to outline those

procedures at this time. If the letter doesn't work, contact me off list at

louis@...

Louis H. Geigerman

http://narda.org

>

> > The important thing to note is that there is NOTHING In the IDEA that allows

a district to LIMIT the amount of time it takes to reach an appropriate IEP.

What that means is that it goes on until you either reach an agreement or you

ask for mediation as you cannot reach mutual agreement or you file Due Process

due to non-agreement, and at that time mediation will (and must) be offered as

an option.

> >

> > Districts CANNOT rush you into signing something you are not comfortable

signing, and they cannot bully you into doing so.

> >

> > Now they CAN allot 45 minutes for this particular meeting. That is within

their rights, but you DO NOT have to reach agreement in that amount of time. So

you sometimes have to play " the game. " They tell you you only have 45 minutes,

but they don't tell you that legally you don't have to reach agreement in that

time. But now you know this. Now it is up to you to not be intimidated by

their time limitation.

> >

> > They will find NOTHING in the law to substantiate limiting the amount of

time it takes. They can either give you another meeting (and even another if

that is what it takes) or they will find themselves either in mediation or due

process, and in DP it will not look good on them if it is found they tried to

rush you to agreement. Some will even try to bully you, so be prepared.

Sometimes you have to steel yourself and give as good as you get. --but let them

lose their cool. You walk and talk softly but carry a big, proverbial stick.

> >

> > I have even seen in some districts someone really get nasty and sound like

the Gestapo,''Ah, yes, but you must sign zee paper! Sign zee paper! It's zee

law! " If that happens, shove the IDEA law book at them and tell them to point

that law out to you (that really ticks them off). Too bad. They won't find any

law to support it, and then they will be in trouble for trying to bully you into

signing before you are ready. (and of course TAPE the meeting!)

> >

> > If you need more time, then table the discussion and they HAVE TO reconvene

the committee within ten days. That. is procedural. If they want to violate

procedure.... well that's their stupidity.

> >

> > What the law states is that an IEP must be developed that meets the unique

needs of the child and addresses all areas of suspected disability and is

designed to move the child forward towards post-secondary education, independent

living, and employment. It has to be done. there is no time limit so long as

you want to continue to try.

> >

> > However, they may get to a point where they...let's say they say something

like " Well this is it. Take it or leave it. " Then they have again broken

procedure becasue they can't say that, but at that point they will look very bad

if you go to DP, so it is in their best interest to keep trying.

> >

> > Keep in mind that districts often push parent to the brink of DP before

consenting to service, therapies, methodology etc.... They figure most parents

will grow tired and weary and back down and just take it. If they come up

against a parent who doesn't, then that is a whole new ball game.

> >

> > But also keep in mind that smaller districts are more afraid of DP than the

larger ones. the larger ones have more of the taxpayers' money to spend on

legal fees than the smaller ones do.

> >

> > And here we sit discussing these things. sickening to have to think about

when one considers that between the years of around 2004 - 2006 or so, Texas

school districts spent roughly 58 MILLION dollars fighting special ed parents in

DP and beyond. 58 MILLION dollars put in a special needs educational trust and

managed properly could have put Texas at the forefront of special education

rather than wallowing in the basement of it.

> >

> > There needs to be something done t level that playing field. Either tax the

dollars SD's spend on legal fees or put a limit. The parents are certainly

limited in their resources, and this certainly goes against the " appropriate "

interests of the child.

> >

> > Parents in Texas must grow thick skins if they aim to advocate effectively

for their children in this state. Your position is that your child can learn,

improve, and go on to live a worthwhile life. Their position is to save money

and spend it on children who are NT. They can't say that, but that is the

truth, and that is unfortunately what we are up against.

> >

> > If you need more time to win a proper IEP for your child, then you have to

take it. There is no law that says you have only 45 minutes to get it done.

> >

> > Hope this helps.

> >

>

[Guest guest]

One year, when the district limited my ARD times, between my 2 children we had 32 ARD meetings, a mediation, and filed a due process! The 32 ARD meetings were BEYOND stressful...-- nna Bond, M.Ed., ATP

Special Education ConsultantAutism SpecialistRESNA certified Assistive Technology Practitioner