Re: Black Hole Tami

[Guest guest]

I might read it in the future

It is too long for me to read

I am glad I could help

By the way, saw me in real life

I think I give myself bad repratation in here

And it is such a bless for me

To be able to think that people don't aprove of me, and I am ok with it

When I went to

At the first day I broke his bed

Sound bad, ha?

What can I say? I am helpless ;-)

-- Black Hole Tami

Black Hole Tami

[i am writing this knowing I don't know Tami at all. But seeing her

behavior definitely impressed me into writing this.]

I see you as a black hole among people, Tami. I don't say this with

animosity or hatred. That's how I perceive your nature to be and I

will avoid you as I would avoid a black hole, a tornado, or a Mack

truck careening in my direction. None of those things I could

challenge head on, just as I cannot challenge you. You would, I see,

have the power to suck and slurp every bit of falsity and hypocrisy I

have and vacuum me up into yourself. I acknowledge that and I choose

to avoid some of it if only for the fact that I do like my life, be it

a false story or not. Just as I have no truly logical reason not to

drink lethal poison, I have no truly logical reason not to succumb to

your demands should you choose to make them. If I allowed you to, you

would joyfully drain my money, my possessions, my ambitions, my time,

my friends and family, all of it, and still demand me to love you

unconditionally and I would not be able to reason against it. So, I

keep a story, and that story puts a cork in you. Death is the eventual

black hole of us all. I'll joyfully choose to let that completely take

me instead of you.

*****

I think this is why her provoking behavior irritated me. I knew there

was no way around it and be completely story free. Impossible. I

intuitively understood where the course of her challenges led – even

if she chose not to take them that far – because I didn't want it out

of her, specifically. Now I know. All stories challenged lead to

self/ego-annihilation if taken to their completion. She has taught me

that I don't HAVE to take her course just because she is setting up

the bait. Doing the work can lead us there whichever path we choose. I

call her a black hole because she is doing the challenging, the

intentional flushing out of people's insecurities that people can get

sucked into if allowed. I think it's awesome I came to this

realization at all. Because EVERYTHING is a black hole. EVERYTHING can

challenge our concepts and beliefs. She just happens to do it quite

willingly and joyfully. It's as if she gladly tries to push people

over the edge. She can't, but she definitely could if they allowed her

to do so. Now here's the beauty of life: choice. If I decide to do

this complete self/ego-annihilation, I choose where and how it is done

(unless death chooses it first). I'm not speaking of suicide, I'm

speaking of annihilating all the stories of my mind. Tami will not be

that for me because I at least have that choice, that preference. I

can keep my story to avoid her until I find an undoing more suitable

for me, if ever. Until then, I can enjoy her banter, to look death in

the face and laugh. I'll eventually get there anyways – at my pace or

until death of the body takes over.

In other words, I can be as hypocritical and false as I want to be and

choose to do the work for the benefits *I* desire. This doesn't

undermine the work, if anything it empowers us to with it as we

please, not as I used to think it should be used for: to be completely

story free. So anyone can challenge me. They can tell me I'm

hypocritical, I'm selfish, I'm this that and the other. Perfect! I am,

until I am not. And I love me completely for it.

Thank you, Tami, girl. Love you.

[Guest guest]

Strange I thought you where a boy

Anyway, I don't know if I can share Parlor stuff in here

I think I got a NO from the moderator

But the way I know myself

Nothing will stop me from sharing 's answer with all of you

FOR FREE ;-)

So, stay tuned

-- Re: Black Hole Tami

Haha. You don't have to read it at all.

Have fun seeing if Byron writes you back on your sperm question.

I would be interested in seeing the answer if you don't mind sharing that.

Breaking beds can be fun, BTW

I would definitely try that pineapple juice thing. One man I used to

give blowjobs to had the sweetest stuff on earth. He used to drink

massive amounts of protein shakes to bulk up for body building. Maybe

that would help the taste of your boy's cum, too.

Take care, beautiful.

[Guest guest]

Dear life-girl

I read your work, most words I didn't understand

But I got the picture anyway

I feel that I like your personality

You reminds me of me (hey, take it as a compliment)

I think that you are sweet, and honest

And I like it about you

Thank you for sticking for yourself

That is an act of self-love

When the snake become a rope

I am here, we could be best friends (No, ha?)

Yours, T

-- Black Hole Tami

Black Hole Tami

[i am writing this knowing I don't know Tami at all. But seeing her

behavior definitely impressed me into writing this.]

I see you as a black hole among people, Tami. I don't say this with

animosity or hatred. That's how I perceive your nature to be and I

will avoid you as I would avoid a black hole, a tornado, or a Mack

truck careening in my direction. None of those things I could

challenge head on, just as I cannot challenge you. You would, I see,

have the power to suck and slurp every bit of falsity and hypocrisy I

have and vacuum me up into yourself. I acknowledge that and I choose

to avoid some of it if only for the fact that I do like my life, be it

a false story or not. Just as I have no truly logical reason not to

drink lethal poison, I have no truly logical reason not to succumb to

your demands should you choose to make them. If I allowed you to, you

would joyfully drain my money, my possessions, my ambitions, my time,

my friends and family, all of it, and still demand me to love you

unconditionally and I would not be able to reason against it. So, I

keep a story, and that story puts a cork in you. Death is the eventual

black hole of us all. I'll joyfully choose to let that completely take

me instead of you.

*****

I think this is why her provoking behavior irritated me. I knew there

was no way around it and be completely story free. Impossible. I

intuitively understood where the course of her challenges led – even

if she chose not to take them that far – because I didn't want it out

of her, specifically. Now I know. All stories challenged lead to

self/ego-annihilation if taken to their completion. She has taught me

that I don't HAVE to take her course just because she is setting up

the bait. Doing the work can lead us there whichever path we choose. I

call her a black hole because she is doing the challenging, the

intentional flushing out of people's insecurities that people can get

sucked into if allowed. I think it's awesome I came to this

realization at all. Because EVERYTHING is a black hole. EVERYTHING can

challenge our concepts and beliefs. She just happens to do it quite

willingly and joyfully. It's as if she gladly tries to push people

over the edge. She can't, but she definitely could if they allowed her

to do so. Now here's the beauty of life: choice. If I decide to do

this complete self/ego-annihilation, I choose where and how it is done

(unless death chooses it first). I'm not speaking of suicide, I'm

speaking of annihilating all the stories of my mind. Tami will not be

that for me because I at least have that choice, that preference. I

can keep my story to avoid her until I find an undoing more suitable

for me, if ever. Until then, I can enjoy her banter, to look death in

the face and laugh. I'll eventually get there anyways – at my pace or

until death of the body takes over.

In other words, I can be as hypocritical and false as I want to be and

choose to do the work for the benefits *I* desire. This doesn't

undermine the work, if anything it empowers us to with it as we

please, not as I used to think it should be used for: to be completely

story free. So anyone can challenge me. They can tell me I'm

hypocritical, I'm selfish, I'm this that and the other. Perfect! I am,

until I am not. And I love me completely for it.

Thank you, Tami, girl. Love you.

[Guest guest]

Haha. You don't have to read it at all.

Have fun seeing if Byron writes you back on your sperm question.

I would be interested in seeing the answer if you don't mind sharing that.

Breaking beds can be fun, BTW

I would definitely try that pineapple juice thing. One man I used to

give blowjobs to had the sweetest stuff on earth. He used to drink

massive amounts of protein shakes to bulk up for body building. Maybe

that would help the taste of your boy's cum, too.

Take care, beautiful.

[Guest guest]

I can't understand this point of view...

and met each other and fell in love while both married to

other people... they divorced their spouces and soon were married

themselves. I can't imagine that their partners were not hurt by this.

And I'm sure herself was well aware of it... but proceeded ahead

anyway. You state that if love has the slightest hint it has hurt

someone, it stops immediately. Uh no. That is not reality.

Love, it is said, is all there is. And yet within this Love, all manner

of nefarious and hurtful activity takes place. Children are raped,

babies are put into microwaves, blow jobs are given here, there, and

everywhere...

Your story is that the Work shouldn't be used to justify " improper "

behavior... as if this behavior is wrong, not loving. Yet the egos

doing these behaviors are mere instruments of Love...

One's nature does EXACTLY what it wants to do - or haven't you noticed?

So why couldn't the Work lead to total freedom in the world as well?

What's the worst that could happen if someone used the Work to justify

vulgarity? Would that spawn more of it? Lead to all sorts of

depravity? Can you really know that's true?

Crap is happening all the time and this the crap train is not about to

stop anytime soon, nor speed up if the Work is used by a murderer or

child molester to justify his/her actions.

If you have been given the permission, mantle of authority, whatever, to

issue guidelines and remove or not remove subscribers to this group...

fine. If that is so... that is what is. You will do as you please.

But if you are a true lover of the Work... let there be no limits, no

restrictions, no shoulds and should nots. If you have opinions to

offer... Please, let it be from " According to my concept... "

And, of course confusion will always be part of the process... but I

don't hear Tami as confused. She is very clear that she enjoys being

herself, no matter what that looks like to anyone else.

> Hi Hypegia,

>

> As mentioned we are not trying to have Tami removed, she is

> perfect even in her confusion.

>

> I respond to her posts here, primarily to correct her

> misinterpretations and misapplications of the Work. From reading her

> posts it would seem that the Work can be used to justify adultery,

> rudeness, crudeness, vulgarity and the list goes on. She offends and

> distresses others, then defends her actions by saying that they need

> to question their own thinking. Or she may revert to the ultimate

> defence by asking others to stay in their own business. Nice little

> twist because that gives her free reign to go on offending and

> upsetting others. She never seems to stop to realize that if love has

> the slightest hint that it has hurt or offended anyone it stops

> immediately, even though it is well aware that the only thing that

> can really hurt another is their story.

>

> I have no problem with Tami being Tami, she is caught in her stories

> as we all are. She only evokes a response from me when she tries to

> justify being Tami by misinterpreting and misapplying the insights

> gained from the Work. The Work does indeed lead to total freedom in

> our thoughts, but that does not translate to total freedom in the

> world.

>

> Have a beautiful day

>

>

> " Love is what you are already. Love doesn't seek anything. It's

> already complete. It doesn't want, doesn't need, has no shoulds. It

> already has everything it wants, it already is everything it wants,

> just the way it wants it. So when I hear people say that they love

> someone and want to be loved in return, I know they're not talking

> about love. They're talking about something else. " Byron

>

[Guest guest]

> ***Have you ever considered that a request to have Tami removed may

> come from a loving, peaceful place, and not necessarily from a place

> of outrage?? Asking for Tami to be removed from this list (and I

> have never requested that she be removed, I'm simply enjoying the

> debate) is not equal to wanting her not to exist. An example that

> may illustrate this point is working with people in what we

> call 'abusive' relationships. A clear mind may wake up and simply

> leave the relationship, it can be a loving thing to do for one's self

> and for the apparent 'abusive' partner.

>

> Another example is being an employer with an employee who is not

> doing their job. has given the example of having fired

> employees who were not doing their jobs and how this was totally in

> line with Loving What Is. Taking effective action certainly doensnt

> mean that one is outraged. Do you get my point? You seem to be

> assuming some outrage towards Tami that isnt necessarily present. If

> I ask for something and dont get it, perfect. If I ask for something

> and get it, perfect. And when I dont feel it's perfect, I'll do the

> work on it if that feels right. It certainly doesnt stop me from

> expressing my views or my preferences when I have them. And perhaps

> one day, when I've questioned enough of my stories, I'll be

> preference free...until then.....

>

> cheers!

Ok, yes. I completely get where you are coming from now. I actually

just had a similar experience in my own life. The girlfriend of one of

my exboyfriends does not want me in his life. While we had one past

indiscretion, I know I would never repeat it again while he is with

this same girl. However, I do still want him in my life as a friend

and I told her so. I didn't fight with her, I didn't attack her

position on not wanting me in his life, but I made it very clear what

I wanted. And I know that if I don't get it, that would be ok by me. I

didn't figure she would care what I wanted, and I don't resent her for

her position, but at least he knows where I stand so that if he needs

to make a decision in the future, he's informed of my desire and that

I would not shut him out of my life.

It was very gratifying to me because this is one of the first times

that I upheld what I wanted without feeling the need to attack or

become defensive, not coming from a place of outrage against what I

see as her 'ignorance'. I know that if I don't get to have him in my

life, I'm still ok, still happy, still complete.

Buddhists say that desire IS suffering. That's always plunked around

in my head as false, and now I know why. You can desire things, but

you can also be completely content with not having those things at the

same time. I guess I see it from this angle: joy wants and welcomes

more joy, but joy itself is enough.

Thanks for the banter, .

[Guest guest]

Ooo ooo ooo! I love where this discussion is going!

I'm with you on this one. We can't judge if 'hurting' someone does not

come from a place of absolute peace and clarity in another's mind. I

heard the unibomber was quite unfazed by his actions, and even had a

manifesto written up justifying them.

The way I see it is that humans are just that: human. Not angels. Some

humans do get joy from hurting or distressing others. I don't see all

actions deemed improper by most need to come from a place of fear and

ignorance. What if someone likes the story that they are a torturer?

The only balance to that is someone who likes the story that they like

to put a stop to torturers.

Actions of peace, actions of war, they are all stories and both can

come from either from a stressful source or joyful source.

Interesting stuff to think about.

>

>

> I can't understand this point of view...

>

> and met each other and fell in love while both married to

> other people... they divorced their spouces and soon were married

> themselves. I can't imagine that their partners were not hurt by this.

> And I'm sure herself was well aware of it... but proceeded ahead

> anyway. You state that if love has the slightest hint it has hurt

> someone, it stops immediately. Uh no. That is not reality.

>

> Love, it is said, is all there is. And yet within this Love, all manner

> of nefarious and hurtful activity takes place. Children are raped,

> babies are put into microwaves, blow jobs are given here, there, and

> everywhere...

>

> Your story is that the Work shouldn't be used to justify " improper "

> behavior... as if this behavior is wrong, not loving. Yet the egos

> doing these behaviors are mere instruments of Love...

>

> One's nature does EXACTLY what it wants to do - or haven't you noticed?

> So why couldn't the Work lead to total freedom in the world as well?

> What's the worst that could happen if someone used the Work to justify

> vulgarity? Would that spawn more of it? Lead to all sorts of

> depravity? Can you really know that's true?

>

> Crap is happening all the time and this the crap train is not about to

> stop anytime soon, nor speed up if the Work is used by a murderer or

> child molester to justify his/her actions.

>

> If you have been given the permission, mantle of authority, whatever, to

> issue guidelines and remove or not remove subscribers to this group...

> fine. If that is so... that is what is. You will do as you please.

> But if you are a true lover of the Work... let there be no limits, no

> restrictions, no shoulds and should nots. If you have opinions to

> offer... Please, let it be from " According to my concept... "

>

> And, of course confusion will always be part of the process... but I

> don't hear Tami as confused. She is very clear that she enjoys being

> herself, no matter what that looks like to anyone else.

[Guest guest]

Carson Boyd

You don't get peace by hating war. You get peace by loving peace.

Someone in the email said: Now I know. All stories challenged lead to

> self/ego-annihilation if taken to their completion.

From this perspective over here, it occurs that it is not in challenging the

story that freedom is attained, but in seeing through the story, which,

admittetdly sometimes happens as a result of looking for the truth/untruth

of the story. And, that's probably what you meant by " taken to its

completion. "

" There is the mind which thinks it knows, and there is the Being. This Being

never had a quarrel with the " I know " mind, at all. This Being embraces and

contains the I-know-mind and this leads to peace. Being doesn't say all you

minds who think you know suck and I'm leaving you now. Being says, I am one

with you and let me help you to unravel your stories so that you may know

that you are one with me. That's what does, right?

And, this doesn't mean that I engage in arguments with I-know-minds who are

looking for a battle. It does appear, for now, that for me, it is sometimes

better to love " them " from afar.

Carson Boyd

Website: www.1Being.com

MySpace: www.myspace.com/CarsonBoyd

[Guest guest]

Hey ,

your words don't fit my experience and observations

- special from my German upbringing and our lost two WW:

http://www.n0by.de/2/a2z/german_generations.htm

Grand Father was injured in WW1 and didn't fight WW2.

Father did fight in WW2 as Wing Commander.

My joy now are now online mind fights.

These 'peace preachers' pretend

IMHO a more refined kind of mind war.

If there would be peace inside you,

for what reason do you need to preach peace?

n0by

sorry, if your peace feelings are hurt,

maybe your website makes me feel you a bit better?

:-)

>

>

>

> Carson Boyd

>

> You don't get peace by hating war. You get peace by loving peace.

......

> Carson Boyd

>

> Website: www.1Being.com

>

> MySpace: www.myspace.com/CarsonBoyd

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks fot the appology, and my feelings are not hurt. You could be right;

and my beliefs do make sense to me. Isn't that just the way of it. Enjoy

your skirmishes. -

[Guest guest]

How is Daily?

Is he alive?

Are you in touch with him?

Why he doesn't write in the group anymore?

T

P.s

I was talking about STEVE D

-- RE: Black Hole Tami

Thanks fot the appology, and my feelings are not hurt. You could be right;

and my beliefs do make sense to me. Isn't that just the way of it. Enjoy

your skirmishes. -