Re: support groups

[Guest guest]

Dear Pat,

Never been to a diabetic support group. Hopefully, that is why I

started this list.

It sounds like Sharon really doesn't know all that much about

diabetes. Does she have family or friends that have it?

You say she is " sympathetic " to the group. I'm sorry, but don't agree

with this. I feel if we want to control this " beast " we have to be

agressive. From what you write I hear you agreeing with that.

The whole idea of this list is that with the more people we add the

more input. I hope we can continue in this positive vein, uplifting

each other and " putting our heads together " to find new ways to deal

with diabetes.

Thank you so much for posting!

(moderator)

[Guest guest]

I have recently been diagnosed as having Type II Diabetes and I have

started taking Glucophage. This has really disturbed me. I am trying

to learn how to live with this.

I have some eating habits that I need to change and I have lost about

5 pounds, so I am not overweight.

There is much that I need to learn, I am hoping that I can learn from

you.

Theo

[Guest guest]

Funny, I was just saying last night how I wish there was a local support group

I could go to. I was diagnosed in November, and have read tons about diabetes.

I've had the class with the nutritionist and diabetic nurse, have gone monthly

to the endocrinologist, test four or five or more times daily, and generally

have learned as much as I can about this disease. The one area that is sorely

lacking though, is the mental support. I know that being diagnosed is similar

to the phases of mourning - disbelief, anger, sadness, acceptance... and I'm

just not quite there yet. My husband, family and friends are all supportive,

but they haven't been there - they just don't understand how hard it is to get

to the point of accepting that this is the way it is, getting past the " why

me's " . It's just that diabetes takes up so much time - time thinking about

food, wondering if I'm high or low, testing, preparing shots, timing... And

I'm angry about it. I'm angry that I'm in the best part of my life, with a new

husband and a new baby and I got thrown this curve. And I'm scared that I'll

have everyone of those horrible complications. And I'm sad that I can't seem

to get my sugars in good control - one week will be great, and the next week

I'm 180 every reading. I can look at this whole disease logically - I can ask

clinical questions, and look at statistics... but emotionally I sure am having

trouble dealing with it. Thanks for letting me vent.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

Lynn,

I can certainly identify with the emotional battle you've described in your

post to this list! Some days I feel like I have so many " puncture wounds " from

testing & injections that I'm suprised I can still drink a glass of water

without it spraying forth in varied directions!

I've always had a good sense of humor...but when it comes to this disability

(and, for ME, it has become a disability) I am angry that it has taken over my

life. Yes, still angry after 11 years with diabetes!! It controls me better

than I can control it.

Also, although I've read everything...talked with the nutritionist, doctor and

diabetes educator--I still feel like I don't know what I'm doing! Why is that?

I just don't feel " confident " about taking care of myself.

I don't usually " whine, " but I guess I feel *safe* enough here to express some

of the frustration and emotions I'm dealing with.

Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 2/26/99 12:24:16 PM Eastern Standard Time, Unicorn@...

writes:

> What is your purpose in testing five or six times a day? Yes I test

> and the most I ever test is four times a day and I don't understand

> why you have the need to test so much.

I have to test when I get up in the morning, before lunch and dinner and

around ten p.m. Lots of days my blood sugar goes low around 11:30 in the

morning, and again around four thirty or five in the afternoon, so I might

test at those times - and sometimes what feels low is really high blood sugar,

so I can't trust myself to know the difference yet. Also if I'm going driving

with the baby around those times, I'll test to make sure I'm not on my way

low, so if I am I'll eat before I go. Between the baby's demanding schedule

and my diabetic schedule it's a miracle I can get both of us out of the house

some days.

[Guest guest]

Okay Welcome all you new comers..... I am a diabetic and insulin dependent and I

love to eat treats!!!! Not a good thing for diabetics... I have some recipes

that

I would like to send to all of you.... Just because we are diabetic it doesn't

mean we can't enjoy eating..... I hope you all can enjoy some of

them.....(((HUGS)))) Lori

Diabetic Fudge

Yield: 8 Servings

1 Env gelatin

1/4 c Water

1 Sq unsweetened chocolate

1/8 ts Cinnamon

3/4 ts Liquid food sweetener

1/4 c Water

1/2 c Evaporated milk

1/2 ts Vanilla

1/4 c Chopped nuts

Soften gelatin in 1/4 cup water for 5 minutes. Melt chocolate with

cinnamon

and sweetener; add milk and water slowly. Add gelatin. Stir until

dissolved.

Remove from fire. Add vanilla, cool. When mixture begins to

thicken,

add nuts.

Turn into cold pan. When firm cut into pieces.

[Guest guest]

Welcome Theo

Hang in there.... this is a great group if you have any questions just ask

away ....Look forward to hearing and learning from you too..... Lori

theo janae wrote:

> From: theoj@... (theo janae)

>

> I have recently been diagnosed as having Type II Diabetes and I have

> started taking Glucophage. This has really disturbed me. I am trying

> to learn how to live with this.

> I have some eating habits that I need to change and I have lost about

> 5 pounds, so I am not overweight.

> There is much that I need to learn, I am hoping that I can learn from

> you.

> Theo

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend.

> http://www.onelist.com

> Onelist: The leading provider of free email list services

[Guest guest]

Hi,

I haven't been to a support group, but did go to a lecture given by one of

our diabetic educators (I work in a hospital). I was sad to hear them

pooh-pooh the low carb diet and even malign it, saying how important it was

to have foods from every group and that carbs were one of the most

important. I asked a couple of questions and talked about how good my bg's

were controlled with low carb, and the reply was I should follow the ADA

diet and if my bg's weren't controlled well I should talk with my doctor and

perhaps try some meds. I was very unhappy with their " party line " .

I do know the head nurse over the diabetic unit and gave her the info about

support groups on the internet and info on the Meter Bank which she was

delighted with and promised to pass on to patients. So maybe I will

indirectly help someone anyway

Anyway, Pat, I wouldn't be too upset with the young lady who is leading your

group. She is learning all this stuff... maybe if you introduce it little

by little she will begin to see how well it is working for you and make some

personal decisions about it.

>

>

>I have been very pleased with this group. Some of you have been on insulin

>and have given me straight information that I didn't have which has eased

my

>mind. Since you know personally that it requires work to get the diabetes

>under control, you haven't hesitated to mention exercise and that certain

>foods can react differently on different people.

>

>I have also been getting help and information from the two endocrinologists

>I see and the teaching nurse at Lahey Clinic.

>

>A few weeks ago a diabetes support group was started at the Senior Center

in

>the town where I live. A senior is defined as any person over 60 (I will be

>63 next month), and so I went to the first meeting. I told them about the

>diabetes@onelist group and also Dr. Chuck's web site. Out of the 20 or so

>people only 4 used the internet. The group is managed by Sharon, a student

>intern at the center who is working on her master's degree in social work,

>and who is using the group as part of her class requirement. Many of the

>people have other ailments besides the diabetes. One has incurable cancer -

>the diabetes came on after she took some toxic medication for the cancer.

>Another has a heart condition worse than the diabetes - she is 80 and

>believes she'll die of a heart attack before the diabetes gets bad enough

to

>affect her greatly - she's just started taking glucophage and doesn't

bother

>with testing her blood sugar. A few just started oral medication and are

>very uncomfortable when some of us talk about insulin. In short, what I've

>noticed is that we are all in different places with this disease and much

of

>the things I need to understand and know are different from what others may

>need. Sharon seems to be approaching the group as everyone is in this

>together and needs to share their feelings and gives us much sympathy.

>Sharon fills out nametags for us to wear at the meetings, has provided us

>with a list of fellow diabetics in the group with our addresses and phone

>numbers. She also bakes sugar free cookies for us at each meeting.

>

>At the first meeting one woman was telling us that we should announce that

>we have diabetes to everyone we came in contact with so that they would

>respect us when we turned down an offering of candy or food. I spoke up and

>said I would rather be known as a person who happens to have diabetes than

a

>diabetic. The lady told me that it was important to tell others that I had

>diabetes or they might try to force a drink on me. I told her when I was

>offered a drink, I simply said " Sorry. I'm on medication that doesn't agree

>with alcohol " A couple of other people in the group backed me up. Sharon

and

>a few others thought it was important to stand up for our rights as

>diabetics and educate others.

>

>At the end of the first meeting, Lynn the heart patient with the newly

>diagnosed diabetes told the group that she wasn't sure if she would be

back.

>If she returned, she said it would be because she liked the members of the

>group rather than learning something that applied to her condition. I, too,

>mentioned that I had been receiving a lot of information elsewhere and

might

>just come every now and then when we had a special lecturer or a topic of

>special interest to me.

>

>The second meeting was supposed to be a lecture given by a Dr. specialist

on

>the diabetic eye. I went. The Dr. didn't show - he had laryngitus. Sharon

>devoted the class to the topic of exercise: i.e., name 5 reasons why

>diabetics should exercise; what does exercise do for you? She led us into

>some very gentle stretching exercises which we did sitting down. It

bothered

>me that I knew the ADA expected answers but that I wanted to qualify them.

I

>know you are supposed to exercise 2 hours after you eat, but for me the

best

>time to exercise is when I get up in the morning, before having breakfast.

I

>monitor my blood sugar - it has been high - I'm reasonably certain I'm not

>going to pass out. If it were very low, I would delay exercising. Sharon

was

>very upset at this answer and wants me to talk it over with my Dr. All I'm

>trying to say is that we have common sense and should be allowed to use it.

>The exercises we went through were so gentle, I had to restrain myself from

>saying " Look. We exercise to help control our blood sugar and to feel

>better. If we don't exercise we may lose what control we have on this

>disease and get worse. No one else can make us do it. It is up to

ourselves.

>If we don't exercise for at least 20 minutes a day and continue to exercise

>each day, we're not really doing ourselves much good " Only 3 out of that

>class exercised regularly - I was one of them and I should be doing much

>more; I'm the poorest excuse for an athlete you ever saw and it bothers me

>to have to stick up for it.

>

>I'm still trying to figure out what upsets me the most about the class.

>Sharon means well - she is a very sweet, compassionate person. I think she

>is under-rating the group who if given the hard facts and shown what needs

>to be done could have a happier, more satisfactory life.

>

>Has anyone else gone to a diabetic support group?

>

>Pat

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

[Guest guest]

Ro - I don't know what a meter bank is. Maybe a place where old meters

retire after faithful service when they are replaced? <G>

Anyhow it was that mentioned a meter bank. What's a meter bank, ?

Pat

At 06:52 AM 2/27/99 GMT, you wrote:

>From: Unicorn@...

>

>Hi Pat:

>

>Just what is a meter bank?

>

>Ro

>Hugs....

>

>RoAngel

> " We are each of us angels with but one wing,

> and can only fly by embracing each other "

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Ta Da! Come see our new web site!

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: A free email community service

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pat,

I've never been to a diabetes support group, but I recognise your leader

Sharon--she's young and in a bit over her head. She's studying social

work, but she's leading a support group for people with a very serious

disease. She's a bit scared, and you can't really blame her. The

exercises were so gentle because what if god forbid she led you all in

vigorous exercise and the 80-year old lady had a heart attack. She

doesn't have enough faith in her own knowledge of diabetes to tell you

to trust your own common sense. You probably would be more comfortable

in a group with a more experienced leader. But if this is all that's

available to you, you have to decide if the expert speakers she's trying

to bring in are worth the aggravation of her sugar-free cookies and

sympathy approach. I have to admit that there are times when that's all

I want, but I've done the most growing and improving when someone holds

up a mirror so I can see the truth.

[Guest guest]

Hi :

I'm a person with diabetes and one who has it for a long time.. I

don't tell people I have diabetes unless it comes up in conversation.

They certainly can't tell from looking at me.

I agree this list should be a support group to those of us that can

not only help others, but to help ourselves. I don't think that I

personally need support in the same way others may. I know about my

disease as I read everything I could in the library when I first

became a diabetic.

Now I'll go back in my lurker mode. Nice to meet you .

Ro who is insulin-dependent

Hugs....

RoAngel

" We are each of us angels with but one wing,

and can only fly by embracing each other "

[Guest guest]

Hi Lynn:

You will eventually deal with diabetes and understand it and accept

it, mainly because there aren't many choices. I am a little puzzled

though and please remember I am not a new diabetic, only new to this

list.

What is your purpose in testing five or six times a day? Yes I test

and the most I ever test is four times a day and I don't understand

why you have the need to test so much. Can you explain it please.

Ro

Hugs....

RoAngel

" We are each of us angels with but one wing,

and can only fly by embracing each other "

[Guest guest]

Hi Pat:

Just what is a meter bank?

Ro

Hugs....

RoAngel

" We are each of us angels with but one wing,

and can only fly by embracing each other "

[Guest guest]

Theo -

I know how you feel. You feel like your life has suddenly turned upside down.

Things you never had to think about have suddenly become vitally important.

This is a time to learn to focus on YOU. Sometimes it is hard, because you

may begin to feel egocentric. I know I did. But you have to. This is your

life. There is a lot of understanding and experience on this list. Please

let me know how you are doing. I care. We are all in this fight together.

[Guest guest]

- Thanks. I think you have described Sharon perfectly. What really

bothers me about the class is it brings out the worst in me - if my

outbursts of protest help someone, it's worth while. Some of the old timers

in the support group are active and alert and probably have enough sense to

get along fine. It's the hesitant, uncertain who might be lulled into doing

less than they should be that bother me. I plan to go to the lectures -

maybe the speakers will stir up some spirit for us all. - Pat

At 03:15 PM 2/26/99 -0600, you wrote:

>

>

>Pat,

>

>I've never been to a diabetes support group, but I recognise your leader

>Sharon--she's young and in a bit over her head. She's studying social

>work, but she's leading a support group for people with a very serious

>disease. She's a bit scared, and you can't really blame her. The

>exercises were so gentle because what if god forbid she led you all in

>vigorous exercise and the 80-year old lady had a heart attack. She

>doesn't have enough faith in her own knowledge of diabetes to tell you

>to trust your own common sense. You probably would be more comfortable

>in a group with a more experienced leader. But if this is all that's

>available to you, you have to decide if the expert speakers she's trying

>to bring in are worth the aggravation of her sugar-free cookies and

>sympathy approach. I have to admit that there are times when that's all

>I want, but I've done the most growing and improving when someone holds

>up a mirror so I can see the truth.

>

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>We have a new web site!

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pat,

What do you mean

> What really

> bothers me about the class is it brings out the worst in me

Do you scream and yell? Throw things? Slap people around? Curse?

I didn't think so. Speaking up for what you believe in is not the worst

in you, it's the best.

[Guest guest]

- I restrain myself, but I am tempted. I feel as if I am getting

pulled into a game of " ain't it awful " or " look how hard I try " . If this

really is a game where the participants are happy complaining, I'd be better

off not getting hooked into arguing with them.

Actually I rather admire Lynn in the group who is 80 years old with a heart

condition. She shocked Sharon at the last meeting by saying she refused to

carry information on her person identifying herself as a diabetic - she

later admitted that she carried information identifying herself as having a

bad heart and what actions should be taken if necessary if she suddenly

collapsed. We both extolled a stretch and bend exercise class we've both

been to given for free at the Senior Center by Gordon, an 80 year old

ex-army instructor, that gives everyone an all around workout. He leads it

M, W, and F for 1/2 hour. Lynn is rather feisty and plain spoken - she says

at her age she doesn't care if people like her or not.

I'm rather fond of Lynn in small doses. I imagine Socrates must have been

somewhat like her in his quest for truth. Sometimes when Lynn sees me, she

asks how I am. If I answer " Fine " , she will say " No, how are you really?! "

Sometimes I'd prefer to take time to consider my state of well-being before

deciding if I really want to share it or not.

Pat

At 11:59 AM 2/27/99 -0600, you wrote:

>

>

>Pat,

>

>What do you mean

>> What really

>> bothers me about the class is it brings out the worst in me

>

>Do you scream and yell? Throw things? Slap people around? Curse?

>

>I didn't think so. Speaking up for what you believe in is not the worst

>in you, it's the best.

>

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Did you know that we have over 85,000 e-mail communities at Onelist?

>http://www.onelist.com

>Come visit our new web site and explore a new interest

>

>

[Guest guest]

Pat:

Sorry that I am a few days late in responding, I'm new to the list and

had email backed up a mile long from another support list that I belong

to. I found your story of the Support Group very interesting and I

could even feel you grinding your teeth together as you went through

it. I've had a great deal of experience with Support Groups over the

years as I am also a polio survivor. One of the many who are now facing

Post Polio Syndrome and all that it encompasses. I've been involved in

Support Groups for Polio Survivors for nearly 15 years, big ones, small

ones, internet ones, exercise ones and they all present with their own

uniqueness. Now I have to admit that I wasn't even aware of the fact

that support groups for diabetes existed. One thing that struck me from

your story is that all of you present with similar but unlike cases and

that reminded me of the polio survivors. We all had polio and for most

of us the initial experience was quite similar but now we all have

varied abilities and disabilities, making each one of us unique in our

needs as far as a support group goes. So how do you make a support

group successful if all of it's members are different. Well I can tell

you that heavy doses of sympathy won't take you far, people don't want

sympathy, we want acceptance and acknowledgement and hopefully some

useful information. Support Groups need a " mission " , what is it you

want to accomplish. From what I could tell your leader Sharon, although

well meaning is without a focus. You should decide what it is that you

want from a Support Group, how are you going to go about reaching those

goals. The focus of each meeting should be a topic from your " mission "

with a " chat " session afterwards. It should not always be left up to

your leader to set these topics, participation by the members is key in

having a successful Support Group. Otherwise, what you are really doing

is simply attending an education class on diabetes. For instance, I am

the co-ordinator of a Special Water Exercise Program for Polio Survivors

that meets twice a week for 2 hours. We have specialists that actually

teach the class and afterwards we get together for coffee and cookies.

The majority of the time we do not discuss polio or polio problems we

talk about everything else under the sun. Now granted, that's probably

not how you want to approach a Diabetes Support Group because your focus

would most likely be on education. It appears to me that what your group

lacks is structure and that could be addressed by meeting with Sharon

your leader and setting out how that education process is going to take

place. One session have a speaker, maybe the next have everyone bring a

diabetic recipe, the next a physiotherapist to discuss exercise. Sharon

was quite right in only doing very very moderate stretching exercise

with the group, in fact she was stepping out on a limb in having the

group do any exercise at all without knowing the medical conditions of

all participants. Exercise routines is probably something that you want

to stay away from as a group, instead have a professional come in to

discuss it. For instance, I'm diabetic but due to Post Polio Syndrome

I cannot do anything except range of motion exercises in the water, so

your 20 minutes a day would not work for me. As far as telling people

about your diabetes, I agree that all diabetics should wear a medical

alert bracelet or tag. You should wear one if you have any kind of

medical condition that requires constant monitoring or medication. You

will encounter some people who do want to educate the world about their

condition, others prefer to keep that information to themselves, it is a

personal choice and there is no right or wrong way. We must acknowledge

that each individual has the right to approach and deal with their

condition in their own way. Keep the meetings fun, laughter is the

world's best medicine. I also host an internet chat room for polio

survivors every night and I want to tell you that for the most part you

would think I was hosting, The Nuthouse, not a serious body to be found

anywhere until someone is having a bad day or needs information, then

are we serious in our support. Hope some of this helps, hang in there,

give it some time and try to implement some positive changes.

Peggy B

[Guest guest]

actually, one of the hallmarks of a support group is that they are not

supposed to be " led " by a professional. what about starting your own

support group without Sharon?

Peggy Bran wrote:

>

>

> Pat:

>

> Sorry that I am a few days late in responding, I'm new to the list and

> had email backed up a mile long from another support list that I belong

> to. I found your story of the Support Group very interesting and I

> could even feel you grinding your teeth together as you went through

> it. I've had a great deal of experience with Support Groups over the

> years as I am also a polio survivor. One of the many who are now facing

> Post Polio Syndrome and all that it encompasses. I've been involved in

> Support Groups for Polio Survivors for nearly 15 years, big ones, small

> ones, internet ones, exercise ones and they all present with their own

> uniqueness. Now I have to admit that I wasn't even aware of the fact

> that support groups for diabetes existed. One thing that struck me from

> your story is that all of you present with similar but unlike cases and

> that reminded me of the polio survivors. We all had polio and for most

> of us the initial experience was quite similar but now we all have

> varied abilities and disabilities, making each one of us unique in our

> needs as far as a support group goes. So how do you make a support

> group successful if all of it's members are different. Well I can tell

> you that heavy doses of sympathy won't take you far, people don't want

> sympathy, we want acceptance and acknowledgement and hopefully some

> useful information. Support Groups need a " mission " , what is it you

> want to accomplish. From what I could tell your leader Sharon, although

> well meaning is without a focus. You should decide what it is that you

> want from a Support Group, how are you going to go about reaching those

> goals. The focus of each meeting should be a topic from your " mission "

> with a " chat " session afterwards. It should not always be left up to

> your leader to set these topics, participation by the members is key in

> having a successful Support Group. Otherwise, what you are really doing

> is simply attending an education class on diabetes. For instance, I am

> the co-ordinator of a Special Water Exercise Program for Polio Survivors

> that meets twice a week for 2 hours. We have specialists that actually

> teach the class and afterwards we get together for coffee and cookies.

> The majority of the time we do not discuss polio or polio problems we

> talk about everything else under the sun. Now granted, that's probably

> not how you want to approach a Diabetes Support Group because your focus

> would most likely be on education. It appears to me that what your group

> lacks is structure and that could be addressed by meeting with Sharon

> your leader and setting out how that education process is going to take

> place. One session have a speaker, maybe the next have everyone bring a

> diabetic recipe, the next a physiotherapist to discuss exercise. Sharon

> was quite right in only doing very very moderate stretching exercise

> with the group, in fact she was stepping out on a limb in having the

> group do any exercise at all without knowing the medical conditions of

> all participants. Exercise routines is probably something that you want

> to stay away from as a group, instead have a professional come in to

> discuss it. For instance, I'm diabetic but due to Post Polio Syndrome

> I cannot do anything except range of motion exercises in the water, so

> your 20 minutes a day would not work for me. As far as telling people

> about your diabetes, I agree that all diabetics should wear a medical

> alert bracelet or tag. You should wear one if you have any kind of

> medical condition that requires constant monitoring or medication. You

> will encounter some people who do want to educate the world about their

> condition, others prefer to keep that information to themselves, it is a

> personal choice and there is no right or wrong way. We must acknowledge

> that each individual has the right to approach and deal with their

> condition in their own way. Keep the meetings fun, laughter is the

> world's best medicine. I also host an internet chat room for polio

> survivors every night and I want to tell you that for the most part you

> would think I was hosting, The Nuthouse, not a serious body to be found

> anywhere until someone is having a bad day or needs information, then

> are we serious in our support. Hope some of this helps, hang in there,

> give it some time and try to implement some positive changes.

>

> Peggy B

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> We have a new web site!

> http://www.onelist.com

> Onelist: The leading provider of free email community services

[Guest guest]

Ellen - Not me. I'm just a griper. Sharon doesn't have too much time left

with us, and the group may choose to go on without her though! I agree with

you that a discussion group consisting of people with diabetes would work

better. - Pat

At 07:07 AM 3/1/99 -0500, you wrote:

>

>

>actually, one of the hallmarks of a support group is that they are not

>supposed to be " led " by a professional. what about starting your own

>support group without Sharon?

[Guest guest]

It's an organization that supplies meters to diabetics who can't afford them

Re: support groups

>

>

>Ro - I don't know what a meter bank is. Maybe a place where old meters

>retire after faithful service when they are replaced? <G>

>

>Anyhow it was that mentioned a meter bank. What's a meter bank,

?

>

>Pat

>

>At 06:52 AM 2/27/99 GMT, you wrote:

>>From: Unicorn@...

>>

>>Hi Pat:

>>

>>Just what is a meter bank?

>>

>>Ro

>>Hugs....

>>

>>RoAngel

>> " We are each of us angels with but one wing,

>> and can only fly by embracing each other "

>>

>>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>>Ta Da! Come see our new web site!

>>http://www.onelist.com

>>Onelist: A free email community service

>>

>>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Come check out our brand new web site!

>http://www.onelist.com

>Onelist: Making the Internet intimate

[Guest guest]

From: Eggshells@...

Date: Friday, February 26, 1999 1:36 PM

<SNIP>

..> . .they just don't understand how hard it is to get to the

point of

>accepting that this is the way it is, getting past the " why

me's " .

Never had a problem with 'why me' because I turned it around

and ask 'why not me?' We abuse our bodies; we abuse our

environment. So, unless you are a walking saint living in

utopia,

you will wonder how you got this far!

Drew from Cold Spring, Putnam Co., NY

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Researching: HERLIHY, GOULDING, & LENT/LYNT/vanLENT

Modeling: NEW YORK CENTRAL RR

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Homepage:

<http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Village/3731/index.html>

Grading Scale for Magazine Resale

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