Re: Extreme difference in T3 dosing

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

May 29, 2008

The reason I've been thinking about this is after my posts yesterday

about my dd and the idea that the t3 was just pooling in her blood

since sometimes she doesn't take any Cytomel and feels the same.

Anyway, you explained to me about the trickling effect and how some

does get in, but not all that one needs.

It got me to thinking if there were a way to measure how much

actually does get into the cells and just take that amount!! Seems

such a waste to have so much leftover and pooling.

Another thing....and sorry if I'm being obnoxious LOL like a 1st

grader who won't stop asking question....I REALLY want to

understand.....if you're thyroid resistant....can your temps be

98.6? I thought you mentioned one time you had near perfect

temps....but I may be confused.

If I weren't so old and brain fogged, I swear I'd go back to school

and study endocrinology! But then again, why go to school.....I'm

learning everything right here.

Naffy

>

> Yes I am certain there are other things which NO ONE has a cluie

about

> that prevent T3 from getting ot the cells in certain people, such

as

> myself. There are also variances in b8inding proteins and hormones

and

> of course, cortisol. I have known I was thyroid resistant for many

years

> and have not figured out why. Maybe I have poor liver functin or

maybe I

> have permanent receptor damage from being hypo so badly when I was

> younger. Maybe the insicticide poisoning I had over 20 years ago

is

> still affecting my receptors. But ther eis nothing but speculation

and

> that gets us no where.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

May 29, 2008

The way I have read not matter the cause, to overcome thyroid resistance

is to bombard the cells with T3. Which means you need to have high blood

levels to break through the resistance. Used to be we had thyroid saliva

labs to tell us how much was actually getting through. I did two labs a

month apart. The first I was on 15mg HC and 150mcg T3, my saliva labs

showed a very high TSH and below midrange T3, but blood labs at the same

time were 6.2 of over the range. Then a month later, the ONLY thing I

changes was went back to 30MG HC and my saliva labs then showed a MUCH

lower (but still high) TSH and over range saliva levle sof T3. It was

quite impressive to see what the extra HC did to push the T3 into my

cells. I did not redo blood labs then but it would have been curious to

see how much my blood levels dropped once the T3 was gettign through to

the cells from a higher HC dose.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

May 29, 2008

-I see.....interesting. And these tests are no longer available

Val? Are they different from the ones we get at canary club?

Another quick question (sorry!) If when you raised to 30 mg HC and

the t3 pushed into the cells and your tests came back higher...why

is it that now you need so much more than 150 mcg? Wouldn't it

stand to reason that you need more than 30 mg HC if upping it before

is what made the difference? Also, where were temps in all of this.

Thanks for the intensive course!!!

Naffy

-- In RT3_T3 ,

wrote:

>

> The way I have read not matter the cause, to overcome thyroid

resistance

> is to bombard the cells with T3. Which means you need to have high

blood

> levels to break through the resistance. Used to be we had thyroid

saliva

> labs to tell us how much was actually getting through. I did two

labs a

> month apart. The first I was on 15mg HC and 150mcg T3, my saliva

labs

> showed a very high TSH and below midrange T3, but blood labs at

the same

> time were 6.2 of over the range. Then a month later, the ONLY

thing I

> changes was went back to 30MG HC and my saliva labs then showed a

MUCH

> lower (but still high) TSH and over range saliva levle sof T3. It

was

> quite impressive to see what the extra HC did to push the T3 into

my

> cells. I did not redo blood labs then but it would have been

curious to

> see how much my blood levels dropped once the T3 was gettign

through to

> the cells from a higher HC dose.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

May 29, 2008

I don't know that I do need more than 150mcg except I still had hypo

symptoms such as a total inability to lose weight in spite of eating

very correctly an d low carb. This was the labs that Canary Club USED to

do they do nto do thyroid saliva testing any longer I have heard. Yes my

temps averaged 98.6 for the last several years and still do but I still

am on a slow weight gain and not reducing at all. My doctor did suggest

I go to 40MG HC and I tried that and gained more weight which tells me I

do nto need more the 30mg is where I lost 70 pounds the last time I got

things working right, but that didn;t last beyond the first serious

stres that wrecked my adrneals again.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

May 29, 2008

Damned weight! That is what has me most frustrated lately. I had

lost weight too, but it's all back and then some. But I'm starting

to blame the estrogen, which is the only thing I've added lately.

Hmmm you have also no? Might be something I can research more.

Well Val all I can say is you are an inspiration in HANGING IN

THERE.... appreciate your sharing everything with me.

Naffy

>

> I don't know that I do need more than 150mcg except I still had

hypo

> symptoms such as a total inability to lose weight in spite of

eating

> very correctly an d low carb. This was the labs that Canary Club

USED to

> do they do nto do thyroid saliva testing any longer I have heard.

Yes my

> temps averaged 98.6 for the last several years and still do but I

still

> am on a slow weight gain and not reducing at all. My doctor did

suggest

> I go to 40MG HC and I tried that and gained more weight which

tells me I

> do nto need more the 30mg is where I lost 70 pounds the last time

I got

> things working right, but that didn;t last beyond the first

serious

> stres that wrecked my adrneals again.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

May 29, 2008

Damned weight! That is what has me most frustrated lately. I had

lost weight too, but it's all back and then some. But I'm starting

to blame the estrogen, which is the only thing I've added lately.

Hmmm you have also no? Might be something I can research more.

Well Val all I can say is you are an inspiration in HANGING IN

THERE.... appreciate your sharing everything with me.

Naffy

>

> I don't know that I do need more than 150mcg except I still had

hypo

> symptoms such as a total inability to lose weight in spite of

eating

> very correctly an d low carb. This was the labs that Canary Club

USED to

> do they do nto do thyroid saliva testing any longer I have heard.

Yes my

> temps averaged 98.6 for the last several years and still do but I

still

> am on a slow weight gain and not reducing at all. My doctor did

suggest

> I go to 40MG HC and I tried that and gained more weight which

tells me I

> do nto need more the 30mg is where I lost 70 pounds the last time

I got

> things working right, but that didn;t last beyond the first

serious

> stres that wrecked my adrneals again.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

> > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

>

May 29, 2008

What about too much estrogen? Have you had your female hormone levels checked? I had too much estrogen to blame for weight gain. (not good estrogen which is estradiol). Just wondering why you are on estrogen? -Kris Damned weight! That is what has me most frustrated lately. I had lost weight too, but it's all back and then some. But I'm starting to blame the estrogen, which is the only thing I've added lately. Hmmm you have also no? Might be something I can research more.Well Val all I can say is you are an inspiration in HANGING IN THERE.... appreciate your sharing everything with me.Naffy I don't know that I do need more than 150mcg except I still had hypo symptoms such as a total inability to lose weight in spite of eating very correctly an d low carb. This was the labs that Canary Club USED to do they do nto do thyroid saliva testing any longer I have heard. Yes my temps averaged 98.6 for the last several years and still do but I still am on a slow weight gain and not reducing at all. My doctor did suggest I go to 40MG HC and I tried that and gained more weight which tells me I do nto need more the 30mg is where I lost 70 pounds the last time I got things working right, but that didn;t last beyond the first serious stres that wrecked my adrneals again.-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ ------------------------------------

May 30, 2008

Naffy, your " 1st grader " questions were very helpful--along with

Val'past experience. This has been an interesting chat thread.

I want to make sure I understand Val's explanation of the saliva vs

blood. Blood gave Val a false-high level of T3?

Tasia

> >

> > The way I have read not matter the cause, to overcome thyroid

> resistance

> > is to bombard the cells with T3. I did two

> labs a

> > month apart. The first I was on 15mg HC and 150mcg T3, my saliva

> labs

> > showed a very high TSH and below midrange T3, but blood labs at

> the same

> > time were 6.2 of over the range. Then a month later, the ONLY

> thing I

> > changes was went back to 30MG HC and my saliva labs then showed a

> MUCH

> > lower (but still high) TSH and over range saliva levle sof T3. It

> was

> > quite impressive to see what the extra HC did to push the T3 into

> my

> > cells.

> > Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

> WV

> >

> >

> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> >

>

May 30, 2008

Glad to hear I'm not being obnoxious with the questions. I swear

sometimes these questions keep me up at night....trying to get a

handle on the whole thing.

From what I understand Tasia, the blood test gave a high reading

because she was actually 'pooling'. By upping her HC dose, she

finally was able to push that pooling t3 into the cells, and then

she got a favorable saliva reading. So what you're saying 'a false

high' is accurate.

Hope that was right...Val will chime in if I'm wrong!

Naffy

> > >

> > > The way I have read not matter the cause, to overcome thyroid

> > resistance

> > > is to bombard the cells with T3. I did two

> > labs a

> > > month apart. The first I was on 15mg HC and 150mcg T3, my

saliva

> > labs

> > > showed a very high TSH and below midrange T3, but blood labs

at

> > the same

> > > time were 6.2 of over the range. Then a month later, the ONLY

> > thing I

> > > changes was went back to 30MG HC and my saliva labs then

showed a

> > MUCH

> > > lower (but still high) TSH and over range saliva levle sof T3.

It

> > was

> > > quite impressive to see what the extra HC did to push the T3

into

> > my

> > > cells.

> > > Artistic Grooming-

Hurricane

> > WV

> > >

> > > http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> > >

> >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > >

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> > >

> >

>

May 30, 2008

Yes I had my female hormones checked and my estrogen was low. So

dr. put me on estrogen creams. I've been gaining weight like crazy

since then. Am seriously thinking of dumping them.

Naffy

> >>

> >> I don't know that I do need more than 150mcg except I still had

> > hypo

> >> symptoms such as a total inability to lose weight in spite of

> > eating

> >> very correctly an d low carb. This was the labs that Canary Club

> > USED to

> >> do they do nto do thyroid saliva testing any longer I have

heard.

> > Yes my

> >> temps averaged 98.6 for the last several years and still do but

I

> > still

> >> am on a slow weight gain and not reducing at all. My doctor did

> > suggest

> >> I go to 40MG HC and I tried that and gained more weight which

> > tells me I

> >> do nto need more the 30mg is where I lost 70 pounds the last

time

> > I got

> >> things working right, but that didn;t last beyond the first

> > serious

> >> stres that wrecked my adrneals again.

> >>

> >> --

> >> Artistic Grooming-

Hurricane

> > WV

> >>

> >> http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

> >>

> >

> >> http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/

> >>

> >

> > ------------------------------------

> >

May 30, 2008

You need to keep in mind that estrogen DOES bind some thyroid, so you

may just need more T3 when on estrogen.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

May 30, 2008

So estrogen doesn't DIRECTLY cause the weight gain? It's the

estrogen binding to the thyroid that makes us go a little more hypo,

thus the weight gain?

Do DHEA or progesterone bind to anything?

Thanks Val,

Naffy

>

> You need to keep in mind that estrogen DOES bind some thyroid, so

you

> may just need more T3 when on estrogen.

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

May 30, 2008

DHEA converts I do nto knwo that it binds ot anything. Progesterone CAN

bind ot cortios receptors bnlocking cortisol from working. OTOH

Progesterone is necessary for the thyroid to work properly though i am

not sure of the mechanism for this.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

May 30, 2008

The body also produces "estrogen" via adrenal gland hormones, soy as estrogenic properties, etc.. I really can't think that a woman in today's society would need estrogen unless it's estradiol... You can only try to eliminate them and see what happens... Isn't this illness fun with all the trial and error? but truly, some of us would be mental if we didn't... best of luck. -Kris Yes I had my female hormones checked and my estrogen was low. So dr. put me on estrogen creams. I've been gaining weight like crazy since then. Am seriously thinking of dumping them. Naffy I don't know that I do need more than 150mcg except I still had hypo symptoms such as a total inability to lose weight in spite of eating very correctly an d low carb. This was the labs that Canary Club USED to do they do nto do thyroid saliva testing any longer I have heard. Yes my temps averaged 98.6 for the last several years and still do but I still am on a slow weight gain and not reducing at all. My doctor did suggest I go to 40MG HC and I tried that and gained more weight which tells me I do nto need more the 30mg is where I lost 70 pounds the last time I got things working right, but that didn;t last beyond the first serious stres that wrecked my adrneals again.-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ ------------------------------------

May 30, 2008

Don't forget many of us that have been hypo for years had Hysterectomies

as well as weak adrenals. THAT is why so many of us need estrogen

replacement even after menopause. I knwo everyone has read all the

horror stories abotu estrogen replacement therapy, but let me tell you

some of the GOOD things estrogen does. It keeps skin YOUNG moist and

healthy, it keep calcium in your bones so you don;t get osteoporosis,

your PANCREAS actually has estrogen receptors that when it receives

estrogen it stimulates insulin production in a normal way to help

prevent Diabetes. I truly think when I stopped estrogen replacement

about 6 years ago was when I became Diabetic. I not only have high

insulin resistance but LOW estrogen as well. Since going back on

estrogen I have owered my insulin dosing by 17 units a day. So though

estrogen bnds thyroid, it has important things it does in the body too.

but those are played down.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

May 30, 2008

So does estradiol... without the risks of breast cancer. Kris and Bob Brunkhorstbkbrunk@... Don't forget many of us that have been hypo for years had Hysterectomies as well as weak adrenals. THAT is why so many of us need estrogen replacement even after menopause. I knwo everyone has read all the horror stories abotu estrogen replacement therapy, but let me tell you some of the GOOD things estrogen does. It keeps skin YOUNG moist and healthy, it keep calcium in your bones so you don;t get osteoporosis, your PANCREAS actually has estrogen receptors that when it receives estrogen it stimulates insulin production in a normal way to help prevent Diabetes. I truly think when I stopped estrogen replacement about 6 years ago was when I became Diabetic. I not only have high insulin resistance but LOW estrogen as well. Since going back on estrogen I have owered my insulin dosing by 17 units a day. So though estrogen bnds thyroid, it has important things it does in the body too. but those are played down.-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/------------------------------------

May 30, 2008

When I say estrogen I mean Estradiol which si a FORM of estrogen. Some

women need more than just estradiol though.. I used to when I was

younger as just estradiol didn;lt releive any of my symptoms though it

seems ot be working just fine now that I am past the age of meno. I had

a comepolete hyst when I was 27 and needed high hormone levels at that

age, I am assuming that was why just estradiol didn;t owrk at all for me

then.,

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

May 30, 2008

Ok...my biest cream says 2 mg estriol and 1.33 mg estradiol. Should

I not be taking the estriol? Is that the dangerous one? I thought

is was another one....a third one....something like estrione ...not

sure.

Val your dr. recommended just estradiol? Did he say why?

Thanks

Naffy

>

> When I say estrogen I mean Estradiol which si a FORM of estrogen.

Some

> women need more than just estradiol though.. I used to when I was

> younger as just estradiol didn;lt releive any of my symptoms

though it

> seems ot be working just fine now that I am past the age of meno.

I had

> a comepolete hyst when I was 27 and needed high hormone levels at

that

> age, I am assuming that was why just estradiol didn;t owrk at all

for me

> then.,

>

> --

> Artistic Grooming- Hurricane

WV

>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

>

>

May 30, 2008

Kris that is what I thought too for the 12 or so years post

menopause. My dr. always pushed for hrt and I declined, thinking I

was getting more than enough estrogen from the environment.

But I've since switched dr's and this one is very pro replacing

everything, especially since I had a premature meno and will

hopefully be around for a lot more years. He thinks its important

for many things going on INSIDE our bodies....not just for better

sex life or looking younger.

Anyway there is soooo much conflicting info out there, it has been

extremely difficult for me to make up my mind and stick with it.

One month I take it then quit, then go back , then quit. Can't be

doing my body any good by doing this! LOL

Naffy

> >>>>

> >>>> I don't know that I do need more than 150mcg except I still

had

> >>> hypo

> >>>> symptoms such as a total inability to lose weight in spite of

> >>> eating

> >>>> very correctly an d low carb. This was the labs that Canary

Club

> >>> USED to

> >>>> do they do nto do thyroid saliva testing any longer I have

> > heard.

> >>> Yes my

> >>>> temps averaged 98.6 for the last several years and still do

but

> > I

> >>> still

> >>>> am on a slow weight gain and not reducing at all. My doctor

did

> >>> suggest

> >>>> I go to 40MG HC and I tried that and gained more weight which

> >>> tells me I

> >>>> do nto need more the 30mg is where I lost 70 pounds the last

> > time

> >>> I got

> >>>> things working right, but that didn;t last beyond the first

> >>> serious

> >>>> stres that wrecked my adrneals again.

> >>>>

> >>>> --

> >>>> Artistic Grooming-

> > Hurricane

> >>> WV

> >>>>

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

> >>>>

> >>>

> >

> >>>>

> >>>>

> >>>

> >>> ------------------------------------

> >>>

May 30, 2008

Estriol is fine it is Estrone that is said to cause some problems.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

May 30, 2008

He uses just estradil in post meno women. I do nto knwo why.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

May 30, 2008

Yes, that's true. I did however, test high in estrogen and low in estradiol. I have estrogen dominance and was in premature meno at age 36 and they have been trying to bring me out of it since... 3-4 years now.. thus the estradiol patch, Bi-est and progesterone cream.. I am talking the bio identical hormones not the synthetic version... The estrogen dominance is what caused the pms and fibroid tumors... my father in law is a doc and said after a hysterectomy I would more than likely produce enough estrogen with other organs (adrenals) and soy and they would just hrt the progesterone cream and bi est and/or estradiol patch.... It's My Ovaries Stupid, by Vilet and Screaming to be Heard are great resources as is the Women To Women website. I am no dumby when it comes to this as it has been a course of study of mine for the last 3-4 years. Kris and Bob Brunkhorstbkbrunk@... Kris that is what I thought too for the 12 or so years post menopause. My dr. always pushed for hrt and I declined, thinking I was getting more than enough estrogen from the environment.But I've since switched dr's and this one is very pro replacing everything, especially since I had a premature meno and will hopefully be around for a lot more years. He thinks its important for many things going on INSIDE our bodies....not just for better sex life or looking younger. Anyway there is soooo much conflicting info out there, it has been extremely difficult for me to make up my mind and stick with it. One month I take it then quit, then go back , then quit. Can't be doing my body any good by doing this! LOLNaffy I don't know that I do need more than 150mcg except I still had hypo symptoms such as a total inability to lose weight in spite of eating very correctly an d low carb. This was the labs that Canary Club USED to do they do nto do thyroid saliva testing any longer I have heard. Yes my temps averaged 98.6 for the last several years and still do but I still am on a slow weight gain and not reducing at all. My doctor did suggest I go to 40MG HC and I tried that and gained more weight which tells me I do nto need more the 30mg is where I lost 70 pounds the last time I got things working right, but that didn;t last beyond the first serious stres that wrecked my adrneals again.-- Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/ http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RT3_T3/ ------------------------------------

May 30, 2008

With high TOTAL estrogens and them calling it estrogen dominance dispite

having low estradiol, I would say what they are calling estrogen

dominance is low progesterone. When taking HC it WILL lower estrogen, so

you need ot have it tested again once oyu get your HC dosing correct.

Your dominance may be a thing of the past, as happens with many of us.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/