Re: Boring description of my domestic fights.

[Guest guest]

From Wayne

adithya_comming wrote:

I find my fights with my wife

truthful and integrals when I

find that I need to fight in order

to do what I feel is right.

Is that true?

Can you really know it's true?

How do you react when you think that thought?

Who would you be without the thought?

You may also like to look at s book " I need your love - is that true? "

for a list of questions that can expand question 3.

I think I should fight with wife and I

should fight totally, whole-heartedly

with courage, determination and full

conviction whenever such a need arise.

I don't want to reach a place where I

stop fighting with wife when not fighting

means budging from what I feel is the

right thing to do for me.

In my experience, many times, there

are very *good* reasons to fight and to

avoid fighting in those scenarios is

akin to running away from the life.

Doing so is painful.

I find many/most of our [my wife and

me] fights very strange and weird. Many

of them, I find hard to believe even

though I have engaged in them many

times.

I would like to present following

examples from my real life:

- We have fought many [maybe, 30]

times because my wife didn't want me to

talk to my parents but I wanted to.

Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I

stopped calling my parents or started

calling them only when I was alone. Now

she checks my telephone log to see if I

called my parents and we still

sometimes fight because she suspect I

might be doing it without her knowledge.

- We have fought many [maybe, 100]

times because my wife didn't want me to

buy, read or discuss Osho, Ramana,

, Tolle any other spiritual

teacher or anything to do with

spirituality or meditation.

Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I started

reading/discussing them only when I was

alone. Now she checks my bags, my

drawers, my car, my credit car bills to

make sure that I don't buy or keep

anything related to meditation or

spirituality. We still sometimes fight

because she suspects I might be doing

it without her knowledge.

- We have fought many [maybe, 50]

times because she has found me

meditating. Later, tired and maybe

*defeated* I stopped meditating. Still

we fought many times because she

suspected that I was going into

meditation even while I was doing

something else, was in the car,

watching TV, sitting on the couch or

when I was with her. I stopped doing

that too.

- We have fought many [maybe, 40]

including some very violent ones

because I decided to pay for my

sister's computers tuitions.

It amounts

to about 2% of my annual income and I

have to do it for only 3 years. In

addition, I am ready to gain this much

extra from other means or cutting it

from other expenses.

The reason that my

wife gave was that she will feel bad if

my sister became a " computer engineer "

and she was not. This has created

our biggest fight yet and this was also

the time when I decided to stop

budging.

- We have fought many times because

she has found me reading a book - ANY

book be it psychology, history,

science, finance, management, self

help, fiction, story, spirituality,

literature, language or health and

nutrition*. She said I was

wasting time by doing so. I have asked

her to give me 4 hours of time per week

to read - she ahs refused it and that

has resulted into fights.

- We have fought many [maybe, 200]

times because she thinks I had an

affair with some girl two years before

meeting and marrying my wife.

- We have fought many [maybe, 50]

times because she thinks I had an

affair with a lady after getting

married. I honestly had no affair with

that lady; I never touched her and

never thought of her in that way. She

was my friend's wife and she worked in

my company, in the same group and I was

her in charge.

- We have fought many times because

she thought I was attracted to one of

my friend's wife or some other girl. I

surely have been attracted to some of

those girls/ladies but I had never done

anything.

- We have fought many times because I

praised a lady for her attitude,

manners, housekeeping, education,

parenting, understanding, health

consciousness or for any other reason.

- We have fought many times because I

didn't like some of the food that she

liked.

- We have fought many times because I

liked some TV programs that she didn't

like.

- We have fought many times because

she thought I was the one who made her

fat. I was the one who didn't let her

become a " computer engineer " . [before

that... we have fought many times

because she thought I was " forcing " her

to become " computer engineer " ].

I find this list very long and it can

perhaps be boring to read. Yet, it is

very real to me and I still find myself

somewhat baffled when I come across

some of these *basis for fight* !

To give it some context, my wife [both

according to her family, brothers and

herself and also based on my

observation] fought with her brother

pretty much everyday for more than 10-

12 years until she got married to me.

My wife also loved [and still loves]

her brother dearly. They still fight

pretty much once every 3-4 hours when

the meet face to face. Based on that

one *guess* that I have is, perhaps my

wife *needs* to fight! Perhaps, she is

addicted to fights.

To give it another context, I came

from family that was strictly

disciplined and we were taught to never

disobey, question our father or elders.

We lived in environment where the elder

was considered always right. I haven't

fought with my brother or sister even

once in last twenty years. My wife

says, there is no " love " between us.

When me and my wife fought, initially

it was very painful to me as I was not

used to it and I considered it

something very *BAD* and unacceptable.

In fact, I never fully accepted my wife

once I got exposed to her *fights*

[which of course, created even more

fights]. I think now I understand it

little better [at least, I am much more

comfortable and much more *at ease*

with it] and I don't shy away from

fighting. Now, I don't get afraid

thinking that if I do 'x " - my wife

will fight with me.

Adithya, while I read your description I thought of the relationship that I

had with my ex. Nothing I did was to her liking. In the end she broke the

relationship. I tried for many years to please her.

After I invetsigated my thoughts about that relationship I realised that

there was a simple alternative - stay in my business and leave her business to

her. She didn't like me, that was her business. She wants to fight, again her

business. She wants to search my cupboards. Her business.

Have you investigated your thoughts about your wife. If you are suffering

in any way (you seem to be saying you are bored with the story) you are

believing untruths. Welcome The Work'

I told you my story about your relationship. What's the story about how you

treat you?

Wayne

*unless I could adequately prove

that it was directly benefiting her

right now... for example, if I say

that this guys says that eating celery can help

you lose weight

__________________________________________________

[Guest guest]

>

> I find my fights with my wife

> truthful and integrals when I

> find that I need to fight in order

> to do what I feel is right.

>

>

> I think I should fight with wife and I

> should fight totally, whole-heartedly

> with courage, determination and full

> conviction whenever such a need arise.

>

Hi Adithya,

Sounds like you have a challenging path there. My wife and I rarely

fight about anything, because I genuinely love her and want her to

be happy. Although I can never really know for sure, it seems to me

that your wife isn't really that concerned about your being happy

and is more concerned with having things her way (my story). She

seems to have a belief that fighting means love, to justify all the

fighting. Personally I have found that self-righteousness (fighting)

takes me away from love and joining rather than closer to it, but

then that's just my experience. In my world fighting and attack are

expressions of my ego, not the love within.

Thanks for being so kind as to share your experiences with your

wife, if nothing else it has made me appreciate how truly fortunate

I am to be blessed with my darling wife.

Have a beautiful day

" There's nothing between you and love but unquestioned concepts. "

Byron

[Guest guest]

-dear a..

your wife sounds like a nut.. im sorry to say..

i dont know how you can stand it..

do you have kids?

I would say your wife is at an anger tone level which is explained in

scientology..

people at an anger tone level do love to fight and will pick a

fight..

And it is sort of high on the tone scale.. there are worse tone levels.

My parents fought over the littlest things.. and there was a couple

on Dr Phil who did the same thing and dr phil said the fighting

was never over the real issue which was an affair..

My dad had an affair and i think it was the reason for my parents

fighting over every little thing... they never fought about

the affair and it wasnt till i was an adult i found out about it.

i dont think this is your wifes case though.. I think your wife

is awful.. i guess because i grew up with fighting i hate it..

oh well.. we get the teacher we need.

She doesnt want you to meditate.????/?? WHY/

REally i dont get the reason for any of your fights but that one

is just weird.

love,roslyn

-- In Loving-what-is , " adithya_comming "

wrote:

>

> I find my fights with my wife

> truthful and integrals when I

> find that I need to fight in order

> to do what I feel is right.

>

>

> I think I should fight with wife and I

> should fight totally, whole-heartedly

> with courage, determination and full

> conviction whenever such a need arise.

>

> I don't want to reach a place where I

> stop fighting with wife when not fighting

> means budging from what I feel is the

> right thing to do for me.

>

> In my experience, many times, there

> are very *good* reasons to fight and to

> avoid fighting in those scenarios is

> akin to running away from the life.

> Doing so is painful.

>

>

> I find many/most of our [my wife and

> me] fights very strange and weird. Many

> of them, I find hard to believe even

> though I have engaged in them many

> times.

>

> I would like to present following

> examples from my real life:

>

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 30]

> times because my wife didn't want me to

> talk to my parents but I wanted to.

>

> Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I

> stopped calling my parents or started

> calling them only when I was alone. Now

> she checks my telephone log to see if I

> called my parents and we still

> sometimes fight because she suspect I

> might be doing it without her knowledge.

>

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 100]

> times because my wife didn't want me to

> buy, read or discuss Osho, Ramana,

> , Tolle any other spiritual

> teacher or anything to do with

> spirituality or meditation.

>

> Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I started

> reading/discussing them only when I was

> alone. Now she checks my bags, my

> drawers, my car, my credit car bills to

> make sure that I don't buy or keep

> anything related to meditation or

> spirituality. We still sometimes fight

> because she suspects I might be doing

> it without her knowledge.

>

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> times because she has found me

> meditating. Later, tired and maybe

> *defeated* I stopped meditating. Still

> we fought many times because she

> suspected that I was going into

> meditation even while I was doing

> something else, was in the car,

> watching TV, sitting on the couch or

> when I was with her. I stopped doing

> that too.

>

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 40]

> including some very violent ones

> because I decided to pay for my

> sister's computers tuitions.

>

> It amounts

> to about 2% of my annual income and I

> have to do it for only 3 years. In

> addition, I am ready to gain this much

> extra from other means or cutting it

> from other expenses.

>

> The reason that my

> wife gave was that she will feel bad if

> my sister became a " computer engineer "

> and she was not. This has created

> our biggest fight yet and this was also

> the time when I decided to stop

> budging.

>

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she has found me reading a book - ANY

> book be it psychology, history,

> science, finance, management, self

> help, fiction, story, spirituality,

> literature, language or health and

> nutrition*. She said I was

> wasting time by doing so. I have asked

> her to give me 4 hours of time per week

> to read - she ahs refused it and that

> has resulted into fights.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 200]

> times because she thinks I had an

> affair with some girl two years before

> meeting and marrying my wife.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> times because she thinks I had an

> affair with a lady after getting

> married. I honestly had no affair with

> that lady; I never touched her and

> never thought of her in that way. She

> was my friend's wife and she worked in

> my company, in the same group and I was

> her in charge.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she thought I was attracted to one of

> my friend's wife or some other girl. I

> surely have been attracted to some of

> those girls/ladies but I had never done

> anything.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> praised a lady for her attitude,

> manners, housekeeping, education,

> parenting, understanding, health

> consciousness or for any other reason.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> didn't like some of the food that she

> liked.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> liked some TV programs that she didn't

> like.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she thought I was the one who made her

> fat. I was the one who didn't let her

> become a " computer engineer " . [before

> that... we have fought many times

> because she thought I was " forcing " her

> to become " computer engineer " ].

>

>

> I find this list very long and it can

> perhaps be boring to read. Yet, it is

> very real to me and I still find myself

> somewhat baffled when I come across

> some of these *basis for fight* !

>

> To give it some context, my wife [both

> according to her family, brothers and

> herself and also based on my

> observation] fought with her brother

> pretty much everyday for more than 10-

> 12 years until she got married to me.

> My wife also loved [and still loves]

> her brother dearly. They still fight

> pretty much once every 3-4 hours when

> the meet face to face. Based on that

> one *guess* that I have is, perhaps my

> wife *needs* to fight! Perhaps, she is

> addicted to fights.

>

> To give it another context, I came

> from family that was strictly

> disciplined and we were taught to never

> disobey, question our father or elders.

> We lived in environment where the elder

> was considered always right. I haven't

> fought with my brother or sister even

> once in last twenty years. My wife

> says, there is no " love " between us.

>

> When me and my wife fought, initially

> it was very painful to me as I was not

> used to it and I considered it

> something very *BAD* and unacceptable.

> In fact, I never fully accepted my wife

> once I got exposed to her *fights*

> [which of course, created even more

> fights]. I think now I understand it

> little better [at least, I am much more

> comfortable and much more *at ease*

> with it] and I don't shy away from

> fighting. Now, I don't get afraid

> thinking that if I do 'x " - my wife

> will fight with me.

>

> ----

>

> *unless I could adequately prove

> that it was directly benefiting her

> right now... for example, if I say

> that this guys says that eating celery can help

> you lose weight

>

[Guest guest]

Dear dali

You wrote:

" I need to fight in order

To do what I feel is right "

Why do you need to fight with her

To do what feels right to you?

Cannot you do what feels right to you

Without fighting her?

Did she locked you and you need to fight with her for the key

To be free?

The only reason for a fight is

If you think you two should agree

Or that you need for her permission for your path

T

-- " Boring " description of my domestic fights.

I find my fights with my wife

Truthful and integrals when I

find that I need to fight in order

to do what I feel is right.

I think I should fight with wife and I

should fight totally, whole-heartedly

with courage, determination and full

conviction whenever such a need arise.

I don't want to reach a place where I

stop fighting with wife when not fighting

means budging from what I feel is the

right thing to do for me.

In my experience, many times, there

are very *good* reasons to fight and to

avoid fighting in those scenarios is

akin to running away from the life.

Doing so is painful.

I find many/most of our [my wife and

me] fights very strange and weird. Many

of them, I find hard to believe even

though I have engaged in them many

times.

I would like to present following

examples from my real life:

- We have fought many [maybe, 30]

times because my wife didn't want me to

talk to my parents but I wanted to.

Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I

stopped calling my parents or started

calling them only when I was alone. Now

she checks my telephone log to see if I

called my parents and we still

sometimes fight because she suspect I

might be doing it without her knowledge.

- We have fought many [maybe, 100]

times because my wife didn't want me to

buy, read or discuss Osho, Ramana,

, Tolle any other spiritual

teacher or anything to do with

spirituality or meditation.

Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I started

reading/discussing them only when I was

alone. Now she checks my bags, my

drawers, my car, my credit car bills to

make sure that I don't buy or keep

anything related to meditation or

spirituality. We still sometimes fight

because she suspects I might be doing

it without her knowledge.

- We have fought many [maybe, 50]

times because she has found me

meditating. Later, tired and maybe

*defeated* I stopped meditating. Still

we fought many times because she

suspected that I was going into

meditation even while I was doing

something else, was in the car,

watching TV, sitting on the couch or

when I was with her. I stopped doing

that too.

- We have fought many [maybe, 40]

including some very violent ones

because I decided to pay for my

sister's computers tuitions.

It amounts

to about 2% of my annual income and I

have to do it for only 3 years. In

addition, I am ready to gain this much

extra from other means or cutting it

from other expenses.

The reason that my

wife gave was that she will feel bad if

my sister became a " computer engineer "

and she was not. This has created

our biggest fight yet and this was also

the time when I decided to stop

budging.

- We have fought many times because

she has found me reading a book - ANY

book be it psychology, history,

science, finance, management, self

help, fiction, story, spirituality,

literature, language or health and

nutrition*. She said I was

wasting time by doing so. I have asked

her to give me 4 hours of time per week

to read - she ahs refused it and that

has resulted into fights.

- We have fought many [maybe, 200]

times because she thinks I had an

affair with some girl two years before

meeting and marrying my wife.

- We have fought many [maybe, 50]

times because she thinks I had an

affair with a lady after getting

married. I honestly had no affair with

that lady; I never touched her and

never thought of her in that way. She

was my friend's wife and she worked in

my company, in the same group and I was

her in charge.

- We have fought many times because

she thought I was attracted to one of

my friend's wife or some other girl. I

surely have been attracted to some of

those girls/ladies but I had never done

anything.

- We have fought many times because I

praised a lady for her attitude,

manners, housekeeping, education,

parenting, understanding, health

consciousness or for any other reason.

- We have fought many times because I

didn't like some of the food that she

liked.

- We have fought many times because I

liked some TV programs that she didn't

like.

- We have fought many times because

she thought I was the one who made her

fat. I was the one who didn't let her

become a " computer engineer " . [before

that... we have fought many times

because she thought I was " forcing " her

to become " computer engineer " ].

I find this list very long and it can

perhaps be boring to read. Yet, it is

very real to me and I still find myself

somewhat baffled when I come across

some of these *basis for fight* !

To give it some context, my wife [both

according to her family, brothers and

herself and also based on my

observation] fought with her brother

pretty much everyday for more than 10-

12 years until she got married to me.

My wife also loved [and still loves]

her brother dearly. They still fight

pretty much once every 3-4 hours when

the meet face to face. Based on that

one *guess* that I have is, perhaps my

wife *needs* to fight! Perhaps, she is

addicted to fights.

To give it another context, I came

from family that was strictly

disciplined and we were taught to never

disobey, question our father or elders.

We lived in environment where the elder

was considered always right. I haven't

fought with my brother or sister even

once in last twenty years. My wife

says, there is no " love " between us.

When me and my wife fought, initially

it was very painful to me as I was not

used to it and I considered it

something very *BAD* and unacceptable.

In fact, I never fully accepted my wife

once I got exposed to her *fights*

[which of course, created even more

fights]. I think now I understand it

little better [at least, I am much more

comfortable and much more *at ease*

with it] and I don't shy away from

fighting. Now, I don't get afraid

thinking that if I do 'x " - my wife

will fight with me.

----

*unless I could adequately prove

that it was directly benefiting her

right now... for example, if I say

that this guys says that eating celery can help

you lose weight

[Guest guest]

Hey ad? i am somewhat confused by your name. was it dali? is it

Adithya?

ok.

after that hurdle, hm.

i am buffled.

what you call a marriage, i would call battle field.

do you love that?

how do you feel when your wife limits and controls you the way you

describe it? (to me this is nearly breathtaking. but it's not about

me, here)

i was really impressed by katies capability to accept the most weird

people, the way they were, when she was here a few weeks ago. most

of the audians started to make sounds, like sighs or ouah, when

people opend up, and katie... she was doing the work. that was what

brought me back to the work)

ok. back to you:

in a way i can hardly believe that it is that tan guy from the photo

that is writing these lines. i even had the thought, is he making

fun of the members of this list?

but then on the other side, i thought: no it's too detailed for

a " bad " joke. ...

how do you feel when she treats you this way. do you treat her the

same way?

that's just some first guesses.

I'm gonna send this now, just to make sure it's not lost, and then

we'll see.

(heading towards the kitchen, ... ) love, rose

> I find my fights with my wife

> truthful and integrals when I

> find that I need to fight in order

> to do what I feel is right.

>

>

> I think I should fight with wife and I

> should fight totally, whole-heartedly

> with courage, determination and full

> conviction whenever such a need arise.

>

> I don't want to reach a place where I

> stop fighting with wife when not fighting

> means budging from what I feel is the

> right thing to do for me.

>

> In my experience, many times, there

> are very *good* reasons to fight and to

> avoid fighting in those scenarios is

> akin to running away from the life.

> Doing so is painful.

>

>

> I find many/most of our [my wife and

> me] fights very strange and weird. Many

> of them, I find hard to believe even

> though I have engaged in them many

> times.

>

> I would like to present following

> examples from my real life:

>

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 30]

> times because my wife didn't want me to

> talk to my parents but I wanted to.

>

> Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I

> stopped calling my parents or started

> calling them only when I was alone. Now

> she checks my telephone log to see if I

> called my parents and we still

> sometimes fight because she suspect I

> might be doing it without her knowledge.

>

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 100]

> times because my wife didn't want me to

> buy, read or discuss Osho, Ramana,

> , Tolle any other spiritual

> teacher or anything to do with

> spirituality or meditation.

>

> Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I started

> reading/discussing them only when I was

> alone. Now she checks my bags, my

> drawers, my car, my credit car bills to

> make sure that I don't buy or keep

> anything related to meditation or

> spirituality. We still sometimes fight

> because she suspects I might be doing

> it without her knowledge.

>

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> times because she has found me

> meditating. Later, tired and maybe

> *defeated* I stopped meditating. Still

> we fought many times because she

> suspected that I was going into

> meditation even while I was doing

> something else, was in the car,

> watching TV, sitting on the couch or

> when I was with her. I stopped doing

> that too.

>

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 40]

> including some very violent ones

> because I decided to pay for my

> sister's computers tuitions.

>

> It amounts

> to about 2% of my annual income and I

> have to do it for only 3 years. In

> addition, I am ready to gain this much

> extra from other means or cutting it

> from other expenses.

>

> The reason that my

> wife gave was that she will feel bad if

> my sister became a " computer engineer "

> and she was not. This has created

> our biggest fight yet and this was also

> the time when I decided to stop

> budging.

>

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she has found me reading a book - ANY

> book be it psychology, history,

> science, finance, management, self

> help, fiction, story, spirituality,

> literature, language or health and

> nutrition*. She said I was

> wasting time by doing so. I have asked

> her to give me 4 hours of time per week

> to read - she ahs refused it and that

> has resulted into fights.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 200]

> times because she thinks I had an

> affair with some girl two years before

> meeting and marrying my wife.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> times because she thinks I had an

> affair with a lady after getting

> married. I honestly had no affair with

> that lady; I never touched her and

> never thought of her in that way. She

> was my friend's wife and she worked in

> my company, in the same group and I was

> her in charge.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she thought I was attracted to one of

> my friend's wife or some other girl. I

> surely have been attracted to some of

> those girls/ladies but I had never done

> anything.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> praised a lady for her attitude,

> manners, housekeeping, education,

> parenting, understanding, health

> consciousness or for any other reason.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> didn't like some of the food that she

> liked.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> liked some TV programs that she didn't

> like.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she thought I was the one who made her

> fat. I was the one who didn't let her

> become a " computer engineer " . [before

> that... we have fought many times

> because she thought I was " forcing " her

> to become " computer engineer " ].

>

>

> I find this list very long and it can

> perhaps be boring to read. Yet, it is

> very real to me and I still find myself

> somewhat baffled when I come across

> some of these *basis for fight* !

>

> To give it some context, my wife [both

> according to her family, brothers and

> herself and also based on my

> observation] fought with her brother

> pretty much everyday for more than 10-

> 12 years until she got married to me.

> My wife also loved [and still loves]

> her brother dearly. They still fight

> pretty much once every 3-4 hours when

> the meet face to face. Based on that

> one *guess* that I have is, perhaps my

> wife *needs* to fight! Perhaps, she is

> addicted to fights.

>

> To give it another context, I came

> from family that was strictly

> disciplined and we were taught to never

> disobey, question our father or elders.

> We lived in environment where the elder

> was considered always right. I haven't

> fought with my brother or sister even

> once in last twenty years. My wife

> says, there is no " love " between us.

>

> When me and my wife fought, initially

> it was very painful to me as I was not

> used to it and I considered it

> something very *BAD* and unacceptable.

> In fact, I never fully accepted my wife

> once I got exposed to her *fights*

> [which of course, created even more

> fights]. I think now I understand it

> little better [at least, I am much more

> comfortable and much more *at ease*

> with it] and I don't shy away from

> fighting. Now, I don't get afraid

> thinking that if I do 'x " - my wife

> will fight with me.

>

> ----

>

> *unless I could adequately prove

> that it was directly benefiting her

> right now... for example, if I say

> that this guys says that eating celery can help

> you lose weight

>

[Guest guest]

> " I need to fight in order

> To do what I feel is right "

>

> Why do you need to fight with her

> To do what feels right to you?

A reason somewhat similar to

why Israel needs to fight with

Hizbula!

>

> Cannot you do what feels right to you

> Without fighting her?

> Did she locked you and you need to fight with her for the key

> To be free?

Something similar...

Like she would hide or destroy

any book/cd that I buy.

Or, she will hide or destroy the

letter that I get from my parents,

friends or sister!

>

> The only reason for a fight is

> If you think you two should agree

> Or that you need for her permission for your path

No, I don't think that is not the " only " reason.

In fact, now, I think it may not even be

" one of the reason " .

I have tried to calrify this by two examples

that I gave above.

Love,

ac.

>

> T

>

>

>

>

>

>

> -- " Boring " description of my domestic fights.

>

> I find my fights with my wife

> Truthful and integrals when I

> find that I need to fight in order

> to do what I feel is right.

>

> I think I should fight with wife and I

> should fight totally, whole-heartedly

> with courage, determination and full

> conviction whenever such a need arise.

>

> I don't want to reach a place where I

> stop fighting with wife when not fighting

> means budging from what I feel is the

> right thing to do for me.

>

> In my experience, many times, there

> are very *good* reasons to fight and to

> avoid fighting in those scenarios is

> akin to running away from the life.

> Doing so is painful.

>

> I find many/most of our [my wife and

> me] fights very strange and weird. Many

> of them, I find hard to believe even

> though I have engaged in them many

> times.

>

> I would like to present following

> examples from my real life:

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 30]

> times because my wife didn't want me to

> talk to my parents but I wanted to.

>

> Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I

> stopped calling my parents or started

> calling them only when I was alone. Now

> she checks my telephone log to see if I

> called my parents and we still

> sometimes fight because she suspect I

> might be doing it without her knowledge.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 100]

> times because my wife didn't want me to

> buy, read or discuss Osho, Ramana,

> , Tolle any other spiritual

> teacher or anything to do with

> spirituality or meditation.

>

> Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I started

> reading/discussing them only when I was

> alone. Now she checks my bags, my

> drawers, my car, my credit car bills to

> make sure that I don't buy or keep

> anything related to meditation or

> spirituality. We still sometimes fight

> because she suspects I might be doing

> it without her knowledge.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> times because she has found me

> meditating. Later, tired and maybe

> *defeated* I stopped meditating. Still

> we fought many times because she

> suspected that I was going into

> meditation even while I was doing

> something else, was in the car,

> watching TV, sitting on the couch or

> when I was with her. I stopped doing

> that too.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 40]

> including some very violent ones

> because I decided to pay for my

> sister's computers tuitions.

>

> It amounts

> to about 2% of my annual income and I

> have to do it for only 3 years. In

> addition, I am ready to gain this much

> extra from other means or cutting it

> from other expenses.

>

> The reason that my

> wife gave was that she will feel bad if

> my sister became a " computer engineer "

> and she was not. This has created

> our biggest fight yet and this was also

> the time when I decided to stop

> budging.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she has found me reading a book - ANY

> book be it psychology, history,

> science, finance, management, self

> help, fiction, story, spirituality,

> literature, language or health and

> nutrition*. She said I was

> wasting time by doing so. I have asked

> her to give me 4 hours of time per week

> to read - she ahs refused it and that

> has resulted into fights.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 200]

> times because she thinks I had an

> affair with some girl two years before

> meeting and marrying my wife.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> times because she thinks I had an

> affair with a lady after getting

> married. I honestly had no affair with

> that lady; I never touched her and

> never thought of her in that way. She

> was my friend's wife and she worked in

> my company, in the same group and I was

> her in charge.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she thought I was attracted to one of

> my friend's wife or some other girl. I

> surely have been attracted to some of

> those girls/ladies but I had never done

> anything.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> praised a lady for her attitude,

> manners, housekeeping, education,

> parenting, understanding, health

> consciousness or for any other reason.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> didn't like some of the food that she

> liked.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> liked some TV programs that she didn't

> like.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she thought I was the one who made her

> fat. I was the one who didn't let her

> become a " computer engineer " . [before

> that... we have fought many times

> because she thought I was " forcing " her

> to become " computer engineer " ].

>

> I find this list very long and it can

> perhaps be boring to read. Yet, it is

> very real to me and I still find myself

> somewhat baffled when I come across

> some of these *basis for fight* !

>

> To give it some context, my wife [both

> according to her family, brothers and

> herself and also based on my

> observation] fought with her brother

> pretty much everyday for more than 10-

> 12 years until she got married to me.

> My wife also loved [and still loves]

> her brother dearly. They still fight

> pretty much once every 3-4 hours when

> the meet face to face. Based on that

> one *guess* that I have is, perhaps my

> wife *needs* to fight! Perhaps, she is

> addicted to fights.

>

> To give it another context, I came

> from family that was strictly

> disciplined and we were taught to never

> disobey, question our father or elders.

> We lived in environment where the elder

> was considered always right. I haven't

> fought with my brother or sister even

> once in last twenty years. My wife

> says, there is no " love " between us.

>

> When me and my wife fought, initially

> it was very painful to me as I was not

> used to it and I considered it

> something very *BAD* and unacceptable.

> In fact, I never fully accepted my wife

> once I got exposed to her *fights*

> [which of course, created even more

> fights]. I think now I understand it

> little better [at least, I am much more

> comfortable and much more *at ease*

> with it] and I don't shy away from

> fighting. Now, I don't get afraid

> thinking that if I do 'x " - my wife

> will fight with me.

>

> ----

>

> *unless I could adequately prove

> that it was directly benefiting her

> right now... for example, if I say

> that this guys says that eating celery can help

> you lose weight

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Hey ad? i am somewhat confused by your name. was it dali? is it

> Adithya?

My real [legal] name is Arvind.

Adithya is name of my son.

I took id Adithya_Coming when he

was in his mother's womb.

>

> ok.

>

> after that hurdle, hm.

> i am buffled.

>

> what you call a marriage, i would call battle field.

Sure. We can call it anything we like,

it still is what it is. We live togethor,

we are legally married, we have two kids,

she cooks fod for me, we say " I love you "

some times, we have sex, we sleep togethor,

we fight, we go out, we watch movies and TV

togethor, we visit freinds, we go to parks...

and, yes, we have arguments and we do fight!

>

> do you love that?

Yes, at least right now as I remember it!

>

> how do you feel when your wife limits and controls you the way you

> describe it?

For long time, it was very, very painful.

Now it is much less painful and sometimes

even little " hilarious " . I still find it

unbelievable though!

Sometimes, I think how those who live in

'prision' live?

Who those in concentration camp lived?

IOW... people do have their [seemingly]

just and fair freedom in many situations.

Yet, this is where they are. This is where

they are. My option are to walk out and

possibly take away financial prosperity

from my wife and children or to live togethor

and know this is what I am living.

> (to me this is nearly breathtaking. but it's not about

> me, here)

> i was really impressed by katies capability to accept the most weird

> people, the way they were, when she was here a few weeks ago. most

> of the audians started to make sounds, like sighs or ouah, when

> people opend up, and katie... she was doing the work. that was what

> brought me back to the work)

> ok. back to you:

>

> in a way i can hardly believe that it is that tan guy from the photo

> that is writing these lines.

Than tan guy is not me, Ros.

That was simply a prank that

I was playing on Tami. I will

change it to use my photo.

> i even had the thought, is he making

> fun of the members of this list?

> but then on the other side, i thought: no it's too detailed for

> a " bad " joke. ...

>

> how do you feel when she treats you this way.

Sometimes very bad.

Sometimes I find it hilarious.

Sometimes nothing.

> do you treat her the

> same way?

I can't treat her the " same " way.

She treats me her way. I treat her

my way.

>

> that's just some first guesses.

>

> I'm gonna send this now, just to make sure it's not lost, and then

> we'll see.

>

> (heading towards the kitchen, ... ) love, rose

Thanks for writing Rose!

Love,

ac.

>

>

>

> > I find my fights with my wife

> > truthful and integrals when I

> > find that I need to fight in order

> > to do what I feel is right.

> >

> >

> > I think I should fight with wife and I

> > should fight totally, whole-heartedly

> > with courage, determination and full

> > conviction whenever such a need arise.

> >

> > I don't want to reach a place where I

> > stop fighting with wife when not fighting

> > means budging from what I feel is the

> > right thing to do for me.

> >

> > In my experience, many times, there

> > are very *good* reasons to fight and to

> > avoid fighting in those scenarios is

> > akin to running away from the life.

> > Doing so is painful.

> >

> >

> > I find many/most of our [my wife and

> > me] fights very strange and weird. Many

> > of them, I find hard to believe even

> > though I have engaged in them many

> > times.

> >

> > I would like to present following

> > examples from my real life:

> >

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 30]

> > times because my wife didn't want me to

> > talk to my parents but I wanted to.

> >

> > Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I

> > stopped calling my parents or started

> > calling them only when I was alone. Now

> > she checks my telephone log to see if I

> > called my parents and we still

> > sometimes fight because she suspect I

> > might be doing it without her knowledge.

> >

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 100]

> > times because my wife didn't want me to

> > buy, read or discuss Osho, Ramana,

> > , Tolle any other spiritual

> > teacher or anything to do with

> > spirituality or meditation.

> >

> > Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I started

> > reading/discussing them only when I was

> > alone. Now she checks my bags, my

> > drawers, my car, my credit car bills to

> > make sure that I don't buy or keep

> > anything related to meditation or

> > spirituality. We still sometimes fight

> > because she suspects I might be doing

> > it without her knowledge.

> >

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> > times because she has found me

> > meditating. Later, tired and maybe

> > *defeated* I stopped meditating. Still

> > we fought many times because she

> > suspected that I was going into

> > meditation even while I was doing

> > something else, was in the car,

> > watching TV, sitting on the couch or

> > when I was with her. I stopped doing

> > that too.

> >

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 40]

> > including some very violent ones

> > because I decided to pay for my

> > sister's computers tuitions.

> >

> > It amounts

> > to about 2% of my annual income and I

> > have to do it for only 3 years. In

> > addition, I am ready to gain this much

> > extra from other means or cutting it

> > from other expenses.

> >

> > The reason that my

> > wife gave was that she will feel bad if

> > my sister became a " computer engineer "

> > and she was not. This has created

> > our biggest fight yet and this was also

> > the time when I decided to stop

> > budging.

> >

> >

> > - We have fought many times because

> > she has found me reading a book - ANY

> > book be it psychology, history,

> > science, finance, management, self

> > help, fiction, story, spirituality,

> > literature, language or health and

> > nutrition*. She said I was

> > wasting time by doing so. I have asked

> > her to give me 4 hours of time per week

> > to read - she ahs refused it and that

> > has resulted into fights.

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 200]

> > times because she thinks I had an

> > affair with some girl two years before

> > meeting and marrying my wife.

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> > times because she thinks I had an

> > affair with a lady after getting

> > married. I honestly had no affair with

> > that lady; I never touched her and

> > never thought of her in that way. She

> > was my friend's wife and she worked in

> > my company, in the same group and I was

> > her in charge.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because

> > she thought I was attracted to one of

> > my friend's wife or some other girl. I

> > surely have been attracted to some of

> > those girls/ladies but I had never done

> > anything.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because I

> > praised a lady for her attitude,

> > manners, housekeeping, education,

> > parenting, understanding, health

> > consciousness or for any other reason.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because I

> > didn't like some of the food that she

> > liked.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because I

> > liked some TV programs that she didn't

> > like.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because

> > she thought I was the one who made her

> > fat. I was the one who didn't let her

> > become a " computer engineer " . [before

> > that... we have fought many times

> > because she thought I was " forcing " her

> > to become " computer engineer " ].

> >

> >

> > I find this list very long and it can

> > perhaps be boring to read. Yet, it is

> > very real to me and I still find myself

> > somewhat baffled when I come across

> > some of these *basis for fight* !

> >

> > To give it some context, my wife [both

> > according to her family, brothers and

> > herself and also based on my

> > observation] fought with her brother

> > pretty much everyday for more than 10-

> > 12 years until she got married to me.

> > My wife also loved [and still loves]

> > her brother dearly. They still fight

> > pretty much once every 3-4 hours when

> > the meet face to face. Based on that

> > one *guess* that I have is, perhaps my

> > wife *needs* to fight! Perhaps, she is

> > addicted to fights.

> >

> > To give it another context, I came

> > from family that was strictly

> > disciplined and we were taught to never

> > disobey, question our father or elders.

> > We lived in environment where the elder

> > was considered always right. I haven't

> > fought with my brother or sister even

> > once in last twenty years. My wife

> > says, there is no " love " between us.

> >

> > When me and my wife fought, initially

> > it was very painful to me as I was not

> > used to it and I considered it

> > something very *BAD* and unacceptable.

> > In fact, I never fully accepted my wife

> > once I got exposed to her *fights*

> > [which of course, created even more

> > fights]. I think now I understand it

> > little better [at least, I am much more

> > comfortable and much more *at ease*

> > with it] and I don't shy away from

> > fighting. Now, I don't get afraid

> > thinking that if I do 'x " - my wife

> > will fight with me.

> >

> > ----

> >

> > *unless I could adequately prove

> > that it was directly benefiting her

> > right now... for example, if I say

> > that this guys says that eating celery can help

> > you lose weight

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> >

> > I find my fights with my wife

> > truthful and integrals when I

> > find that I need to fight in order

> > to do what I feel is right.

> >

> >

> > I think I should fight with wife and I

> > should fight totally, whole-heartedly

> > with courage, determination and full

> > conviction whenever such a need arise.

> >

>

>

> Hi Adithya,

>

> Sounds like you have a challenging path there. My wife and I rarely

> fight about anything, because I genuinely love her and want her to

> be happy.

I think I genuinely want my wife to

be happy too.

> Although I can never really know for sure, it seems to me

> that your wife isn't really that concerned about your being happy

> and is more concerned with having things her way (my story).

Sure. That is my story too.

> She

> seems to have a belief that fighting means love, to justify all the

> fighting.

Yes That is my story too.

> Personally I have found that self-righteousness (fighting)

> takes me away from love and joining rather than closer to it, but

> then that's just my experience.

Yes. That is my experience too.

> In my world fighting and attack are

> expressions of my ego, not the love within.

I can not make it 'universal'. Gandhi did

'fight' with British and in my mind, he

did a very loving, kind and true thing.

In my mind, he did the best thing that

was there to do.

> Thanks for being so kind as to share your experiences with your

> wife, if nothing else it has made me appreciate how truly fortunate

> I am to be blessed with my darling wife.

Sure. Thanks for writing LTW!

Love,

ac.

>

> Have a beautiful day

>

>

> " There's nothing between you and love but unquestioned concepts. "

> Byron

>

[Guest guest]

why do you stay married to her?

i guess you love her..

I think you should separate and see if you like your life better.

but from the way you are describing her .. i wonder if shed be dangerous.

bummer... if someone destroyed my books and my letters i would

be out the door in one second.

in your business Does it feel like jail?

love,roslyn

-- In Loving-what-is , " adithya_comming "

wrote:

>

>

> > " I need to fight in order

> > To do what I feel is right "

> >

> > Why do you need to fight with her

> > To do what feels right to you?

>

> A reason somewhat similar to

> why Israel needs to fight with

> Hizbula!

>

>

> >

> > Cannot you do what feels right to you

> > Without fighting her?

> > Did she locked you and you need to fight with her for the key

> > To be free?

>

> Something similar...

>

> Like she would hide or destroy

> any book/cd that I buy.

>

> Or, she will hide or destroy the

> letter that I get from my parents,

> friends or sister!

>

>

> >

> > The only reason for a fight is

> > If you think you two should agree

> > Or that you need for her permission for your path

>

>

> No, I don't think that is not the " only " reason.

>

> In fact, now, I think it may not even be

> " one of the reason " .

>

> I have tried to calrify this by two examples

> that I gave above.

>

> Love,

> ac.

>

> >

> > T

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> > -- " Boring " description of my domestic fights.

> >

> > I find my fights with my wife

> > Truthful and integrals when I

> > find that I need to fight in order

> > to do what I feel is right.

> >

> > I think I should fight with wife and I

> > should fight totally, whole-heartedly

> > with courage, determination and full

> > conviction whenever such a need arise.

> >

> > I don't want to reach a place where I

> > stop fighting with wife when not fighting

> > means budging from what I feel is the

> > right thing to do for me.

> >

> > In my experience, many times, there

> > are very *good* reasons to fight and to

> > avoid fighting in those scenarios is

> > akin to running away from the life.

> > Doing so is painful.

> >

> > I find many/most of our [my wife and

> > me] fights very strange and weird. Many

> > of them, I find hard to believe even

> > though I have engaged in them many

> > times.

> >

> > I would like to present following

> > examples from my real life:

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 30]

> > times because my wife didn't want me to

> > talk to my parents but I wanted to.

> >

> > Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I

> > stopped calling my parents or started

> > calling them only when I was alone. Now

> > she checks my telephone log to see if I

> > called my parents and we still

> > sometimes fight because she suspect I

> > might be doing it without her knowledge.

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 100]

> > times because my wife didn't want me to

> > buy, read or discuss Osho, Ramana,

> > , Tolle any other spiritual

> > teacher or anything to do with

> > spirituality or meditation.

> >

> > Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I started

> > reading/discussing them only when I was

> > alone. Now she checks my bags, my

> > drawers, my car, my credit car bills to

> > make sure that I don't buy or keep

> > anything related to meditation or

> > spirituality. We still sometimes fight

> > because she suspects I might be doing

> > it without her knowledge.

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> > times because she has found me

> > meditating. Later, tired and maybe

> > *defeated* I stopped meditating. Still

> > we fought many times because she

> > suspected that I was going into

> > meditation even while I was doing

> > something else, was in the car,

> > watching TV, sitting on the couch or

> > when I was with her. I stopped doing

> > that too.

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 40]

> > including some very violent ones

> > because I decided to pay for my

> > sister's computers tuitions.

> >

> > It amounts

> > to about 2% of my annual income and I

> > have to do it for only 3 years. In

> > addition, I am ready to gain this much

> > extra from other means or cutting it

> > from other expenses.

> >

> > The reason that my

> > wife gave was that she will feel bad if

> > my sister became a " computer engineer "

> > and she was not. This has created

> > our biggest fight yet and this was also

> > the time when I decided to stop

> > budging.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because

> > she has found me reading a book - ANY

> > book be it psychology, history,

> > science, finance, management, self

> > help, fiction, story, spirituality,

> > literature, language or health and

> > nutrition*. She said I was

> > wasting time by doing so. I have asked

> > her to give me 4 hours of time per week

> > to read - she ahs refused it and that

> > has resulted into fights.

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 200]

> > times because she thinks I had an

> > affair with some girl two years before

> > meeting and marrying my wife.

> >

> > - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> > times because she thinks I had an

> > affair with a lady after getting

> > married. I honestly had no affair with

> > that lady; I never touched her and

> > never thought of her in that way. She

> > was my friend's wife and she worked in

> > my company, in the same group and I was

> > her in charge.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because

> > she thought I was attracted to one of

> > my friend's wife or some other girl. I

> > surely have been attracted to some of

> > those girls/ladies but I had never done

> > anything.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because I

> > praised a lady for her attitude,

> > manners, housekeeping, education,

> > parenting, understanding, health

> > consciousness or for any other reason.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because I

> > didn't like some of the food that she

> > liked.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because I

> > liked some TV programs that she didn't

> > like.

> >

> > - We have fought many times because

> > she thought I was the one who made her

> > fat. I was the one who didn't let her

> > become a " computer engineer " . [before

> > that... we have fought many times

> > because she thought I was " forcing " her

> > to become " computer engineer " ].

> >

> > I find this list very long and it can

> > perhaps be boring to read. Yet, it is

> > very real to me and I still find myself

> > somewhat baffled when I come across

> > some of these *basis for fight* !

> >

> > To give it some context, my wife [both

> > according to her family, brothers and

> > herself and also based on my

> > observation] fought with her brother

> > pretty much everyday for more than 10-

> > 12 years until she got married to me.

> > My wife also loved [and still loves]

> > her brother dearly. They still fight

> > pretty much once every 3-4 hours when

> > the meet face to face. Based on that

> > one *guess* that I have is, perhaps my

> > wife *needs* to fight! Perhaps, she is

> > addicted to fights.

> >

> > To give it another context, I came

> > from family that was strictly

> > disciplined and we were taught to never

> > disobey, question our father or elders.

> > We lived in environment where the elder

> > was considered always right. I haven't

> > fought with my brother or sister even

> > once in last twenty years. My wife

> > says, there is no " love " between us.

> >

> > When me and my wife fought, initially

> > it was very painful to me as I was not

> > used to it and I considered it

> > something very *BAD* and unacceptable.

> > In fact, I never fully accepted my wife

> > once I got exposed to her *fights*

> > [which of course, created even more

> > fights]. I think now I understand it

> > little better [at least, I am much more

> > comfortable and much more *at ease*

> > with it] and I don't shy away from

> > fighting. Now, I don't get afraid

> > thinking that if I do 'x " - my wife

> > will fight with me.

> >

> > ----

> >

> > *unless I could adequately prove

> > that it was directly benefiting her

> > right now... for example, if I say

> > that this guys says that eating celery can help

> > you lose weight

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> > Hey ad? i am somewhat confused by your name. was it dali? is it

> > Adithya?

>

> My real [legal] name is Arvind.

I see. And how shall i call you? tan honey? )

no no! once again, hello ac : )

>

> Adithya is name of my son.

> I took id Adithya_Coming when he

> was in his mother's womb.

>

> >

> > ok.

> >

> > after that hurdle, hm.

> > i am buffled.

> >

> > what you call a marriage, i would call battle field.

>

> Sure. We can call it anything we like,

> it still is what it is.

*** i agree. ( i have read the whole posting already, and start now

to respond)

We live togethor,

> we are legally married, we have two kids,

> she cooks fod for me, we say " I love you "

> some times, we have sex, we sleep togethor,

> we fight, we go out, we watch movies and TV

> togethor, we visit freinds, we go to parks...

>

> and, yes, we have arguments and we do fight!

i am more like LTW. don't get me wrong. i too love your openness. i

was wondering why you write it. do you suffer from that situtation.

do you want to " change " it. do you look for solutions? e.g. when you

read things like wiki, or tolle.

in case you're looking for let's say relief, i wonder if i can be of

any help. hm. are you looking for input?

(just thoughts on my end)

(not interfering in your business)

> > do you love that?

>

> Yes, at least right now as I remember it!

you mean you love the whole collection. did i get you right?

>

>

> >

> > how do you feel when your wife limits and controls you the way

you

> > describe it?

>

> For long time, it was very, very painful.

> Now it is much less painful and sometimes

> even little " hilarious " . I still find it

> unbelievable though!

hm i am somehow impressed how people are willing to stand

situations, i would not want to accept.

i would refuse my husbands attempt to do enchroachments on my

businesses. in fact he doesn't. (me neither) it's not better or

worse. it's just different.

>

> Sometimes, I think how those who live in

> 'prision' live?

>

> Who those in concentration camp lived?

i hope i get what you say. (i always have to cope with the

differences in our languages, and sometimes the lack of terms)

did you mean, you wonder how people cope with situations, where they

are somehow exposed, like prison, or CC?

>

> IOW... people do have their [seemingly]

> just and fair freedom in many situations.

do you sometimes think, a marriage is somehow like a prison?

there is a whole flood in my of stories and words regarding this.

your story reminds me to some other man's story. he was

californian ... and then it remind me to a story of an indian man.

nisargadatta. (you know, advaita... )

oh oh!

and then it reminds me to the

> Yet, this is where they are. This is where

> they are. My option are to walk out and then it makes me recall

experiences i had with a self help group of man, after their divorce.

> possibly take away financial prosperity

> from my wife and children or to live togethor

> and know this is what I am living.

ask your heart. you have access to your own wisdom!

>

> Than tan guy is not me, Ros.

> That was simply a prank that

> I was playing on Tami. I will

> change it to use my photo.

ooouuuahhh )) i see. see how naive i am. i took it literally.

feeling foolish in the first moment, cracking up in the second. )

thanks for the joke.

>

> >

> > how do you feel when she treats you this way.

>

> Sometimes very bad.

>

> Sometimes I find it hilarious.

>

> Sometimes nothing.

>

this is your path. i am impressed by your courage.

there is so much to say about it. i don't know. my husband was

married ten yrs before we met, in an unhappy marriage, he staid,

cause of the kid, and cause he had said yes.

i myself, became sick in my unhealthy marriage, so i had to choose.

getting more sick, or leave. i left.

(in agreement) i took along the child.

my ideal was and is, to live in a healthy happy relationship, or on

my own. but not in an unhappy one. that's only my philosphy.

>

> > do you treat her the

> > same way?

>

> I can't treat her the " same " way.

> She treats me her way. I treat her

> my way.

ok. let's ask differently. more specific. do you limit her in

return? do you live tit for tat responses.

> Thanks for writing Rose!

your welcome. when i read your posting (the one before), my physical

heart started to ache immensly.

>

> Love,

> ac.

PS: and again the question: do you do any kind of fights, like

marcial arts or fight clubs, or what?

[Guest guest]

Israel doesn't fight with Hizbula!

Israel defend herself

And that is what you do here with me,

So you are just like Israel, does it feels kind to yourself?

-- " Boring " description of my domestic fights.

>

> I find my fights with my wife

> Truthful and integrals when I

> find that I need to fight in order

> to do what I feel is right.

>

> I think I should fight with wife and I

> should fight totally, whole-heartedly

> with courage, determination and full

> conviction whenever such a need arise.

>

> I don't want to reach a place where I

> stop fighting with wife when not fighting

> means budging from what I feel is the

> right thing to do for me.

>

> In my experience, many times, there

> are very *good* reasons to fight and to

> avoid fighting in those scenarios is

> akin to running away from the life.

> Doing so is painful.

>

> I find many/most of our [my wife and

> me] fights very strange and weird. Many

> of them, I find hard to believe even

> though I have engaged in them many

> times.

>

> I would like to present following

> examples from my real life:

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 30]

> times because my wife didn't want me to

> talk to my parents but I wanted to.

>

> Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I

> stopped calling my parents or started

> calling them only when I was alone. Now

> she checks my telephone log to see if I

> called my parents and we still

> sometimes fight because she suspect I

> might be doing it without her knowledge.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 100]

> times because my wife didn't want me to

> buy, read or discuss Osho, Ramana,

> , Tolle any other spiritual

> teacher or anything to do with

> spirituality or meditation.

>

> Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I started

> reading/discussing them only when I was

> alone. Now she checks my bags, my

> drawers, my car, my credit car bills to

> make sure that I don't buy or keep

> anything related to meditation or

> spirituality. We still sometimes fight

> because she suspects I might be doing

> it without her knowledge.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> times because she has found me

> meditating. Later, tired and maybe

> *defeated* I stopped meditating. Still

> we fought many times because she

> suspected that I was going into

> meditation even while I was doing

> something else, was in the car,

> watching TV, sitting on the couch or

> when I was with her. I stopped doing

> that too.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 40]

> including some very violent ones

> because I decided to pay for my

> sister's computers tuitions.

>

> It amounts

> to about 2% of my annual income and I

> have to do it for only 3 years. In

> addition, I am ready to gain this much

> extra from other means or cutting it

> from other expenses.

>

> The reason that my

> wife gave was that she will feel bad if

> my sister became a " computer engineer "

> and she was not. This has created

> our biggest fight yet and this was also

> the time when I decided to stop

> budging.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she has found me reading a book - ANY

> book be it psychology, history,

> science, finance, management, self

> help, fiction, story, spirituality,

> literature, language or health and

> nutrition*. She said I was

> wasting time by doing so. I have asked

> her to give me 4 hours of time per week

> to read - she ahs refused it and that

> has resulted into fights.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 200]

> times because she thinks I had an

> affair with some girl two years before

> meeting and marrying my wife.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> times because she thinks I had an

> affair with a lady after getting

> married. I honestly had no affair with

> that lady; I never touched her and

> never thought of her in that way. She

> was my friend's wife and she worked in

> my company, in the same group and I was

> her in charge.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she thought I was attracted to one of

> my friend's wife or some other girl. I

> surely have been attracted to some of

> those girls/ladies but I had never done

> anything.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> praised a lady for her attitude,

> manners, housekeeping, education,

> parenting, understanding, health

> consciousness or for any other reason.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> didn't like some of the food that she

> liked.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> liked some TV programs that she didn't

> like.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she thought I was the one who made her

> fat. I was the one who didn't let her

> become a " computer engineer " . [before

> that... we have fought many times

> because she thought I was " forcing " her

> to become " computer engineer " ].

>

> I find this list very long and it can

> perhaps be boring to read. Yet, it is

> very real to me and I still find myself

> somewhat baffled when I come across

> some of these *basis for fight* !

>

> To give it some context, my wife [both

> according to her family, brothers and

> herself and also based on my

> observation] fought with her brother

> pretty much everyday for more than 10-

> 12 years until she got married to me.

> My wife also loved [and still loves]

> her brother dearly. They still fight

> pretty much once every 3-4 hours when

> the meet face to face. Based on that

> one *guess* that I have is, perhaps my

> wife *needs* to fight! Perhaps, she is

> addicted to fights.

>

> To give it another context, I came

> from family that was strictly

> disciplined and we were taught to never

> disobey, question our father or elders.

> We lived in environment where the elder

> was considered always right. I haven't

> fought with my brother or sister even

> once in last twenty years. My wife

> says, there is no " love " between us.

>

> When me and my wife fought, initially

> it was very painful to me as I was not

> used to it and I considered it

> something very *BAD* and unacceptable.

> In fact, I never fully accepted my wife

> once I got exposed to her *fights*

> [which of course, created even more

> fights]. I think now I understand it

> little better [at least, I am much more

> comfortable and much more *at ease*

> with it] and I don't shy away from

> fighting. Now, I don't get afraid

> thinking that if I do 'x " - my wife

> will fight with me.

>

> ----

>

> *unless I could adequately prove

> that it was directly benefiting her

> right now... for example, if I say

> that this guys says that eating celery can help

> you lose weight

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

A,

I admire you, the fact that you made the decision to stay with your family

and you have many reasons to. Realtionships are work , is that true? yes, for

me.

God bless you for keeping your family together, I am glad you just don't walk

away and are there to make things work for you and everyone else.

Tami wrote:

Israel doesn't fight with Hizbula!

Israel defend herself

And that is what you do here with me,

So you are just like Israel, does it feels kind to yourself?

-- " Boring " description of my domestic fights.

>

> I find my fights with my wife

> Truthful and integrals when I

> find that I need to fight in order

> to do what I feel is right.

>

> I think I should fight with wife and I

> should fight totally, whole-heartedly

> with courage, determination and full

> conviction whenever such a need arise.

>

> I don't want to reach a place where I

> stop fighting with wife when not fighting

> means budging from what I feel is the

> right thing to do for me.

>

> In my experience, many times, there

> are very *good* reasons to fight and to

> avoid fighting in those scenarios is

> akin to running away from the life.

> Doing so is painful.

>

> I find many/most of our [my wife and

> me] fights very strange and weird. Many

> of them, I find hard to believe even

> though I have engaged in them many

> times.

>

> I would like to present following

> examples from my real life:

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 30]

> times because my wife didn't want me to

> talk to my parents but I wanted to.

>

> Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I

> stopped calling my parents or started

> calling them only when I was alone. Now

> she checks my telephone log to see if I

> called my parents and we still

> sometimes fight because she suspect I

> might be doing it without her knowledge.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 100]

> times because my wife didn't want me to

> buy, read or discuss Osho, Ramana,

> , Tolle any other spiritual

> teacher or anything to do with

> spirituality or meditation.

>

> Later, tired and maybe *defeated* I started

> reading/discussing them only when I was

> alone. Now she checks my bags, my

> drawers, my car, my credit car bills to

> make sure that I don't buy or keep

> anything related to meditation or

> spirituality. We still sometimes fight

> because she suspects I might be doing

> it without her knowledge.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> times because she has found me

> meditating. Later, tired and maybe

> *defeated* I stopped meditating. Still

> we fought many times because she

> suspected that I was going into

> meditation even while I was doing

> something else, was in the car,

> watching TV, sitting on the couch or

> when I was with her. I stopped doing

> that too.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 40]

> including some very violent ones

> because I decided to pay for my

> sister's computers tuitions.

>

> It amounts

> to about 2% of my annual income and I

> have to do it for only 3 years. In

> addition, I am ready to gain this much

> extra from other means or cutting it

> from other expenses.

>

> The reason that my

> wife gave was that she will feel bad if

> my sister became a " computer engineer "

> and she was not. This has created

> our biggest fight yet and this was also

> the time when I decided to stop

> budging.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she has found me reading a book - ANY

> book be it psychology, history,

> science, finance, management, self

> help, fiction, story, spirituality,

> literature, language or health and

> nutrition*. She said I was

> wasting time by doing so. I have asked

> her to give me 4 hours of time per week

> to read - she ahs refused it and that

> has resulted into fights.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 200]

> times because she thinks I had an

> affair with some girl two years before

> meeting and marrying my wife.

>

> - We have fought many [maybe, 50]

> times because she thinks I had an

> affair with a lady after getting

> married. I honestly had no affair with

> that lady; I never touched her and

> never thought of her in that way. She

> was my friend's wife and she worked in

> my company, in the same group and I was

> her in charge.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she thought I was attracted to one of

> my friend's wife or some other girl. I

> surely have been attracted to some of

> those girls/ladies but I had never done

> anything.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> praised a lady for her attitude,

> manners, housekeeping, education,

> parenting, understanding, health

> consciousness or for any other reason.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> didn't like some of the food that she

> liked.

>

> - We have fought many times because I

> liked some TV programs that she didn't

> like.

>

> - We have fought many times because

> she thought I was the one who made her

> fat. I was the one who didn't let her

> become a " computer engineer " . [before

> that... we have fought many times

> because she thought I was " forcing " her

> to become " computer engineer " ].

>

> I find this list very long and it can

> perhaps be boring to read. Yet, it is

> very real to me and I still find myself

> somewhat baffled when I come across

> some of these *basis for fight* !

>

> To give it some context, my wife [both

> according to her family, brothers and

> herself and also based on my

> observation] fought with her brother

> pretty much everyday for more than 10-

> 12 years until she got married to me.

> My wife also loved [and still loves]

> her brother dearly. They still fight

> pretty much once every 3-4 hours when

> the meet face to face. Based on that

> one *guess* that I have is, perhaps my

> wife *needs* to fight! Perhaps, she is

> addicted to fights.

>

> To give it another context, I came

> from family that was strictly

> disciplined and we were taught to never

> disobey, question our father or elders.

> We lived in environment where the elder

> was considered always right. I haven't

> fought with my brother or sister even

> once in last twenty years. My wife

> says, there is no " love " between us.

>

> When me and my wife fought, initially

> it was very painful to me as I was not

> used to it and I considered it

> something very *BAD* and unacceptable.

> In fact, I never fully accepted my wife

> once I got exposed to her *fights*

> [which of course, created even more

> fights]. I think now I understand it

> little better [at least, I am much more

> comfortable and much more *at ease*

> with it] and I don't shy away from

> fighting. Now, I don't get afraid

> thinking that if I do 'x " - my wife

> will fight with me.

>

> ----

>

> *unless I could adequately prove

> that it was directly benefiting her

> right now... for example, if I say

> that this guys says that eating celery can help

> you lose weight

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hello AC

> > i am more like LTW. don't get me wrong.

>

> Don't worry. I can be " like you " , no problem!

i can see from your words, that you " must " be that way. it takes an

attitude to live your situation. i have two friends, where the

situations might be somewhat similar to what i sensed from your

words. since she knows her man, he was never good enough for her.

(she says " it is my problem that he is 'so and so' " )

i can only see a wonderful man, who lives with her, and their two

kids. he is there reliable, caring ... . yet last year he had a

heartattack.

it is similar to the man i know from california. he too had an heart

attack. his wife stood next to him, while he was laying on the

floor. doing nothing. till the daughter came, shouting at her mum,

why she's not doing anything, while dad was about to die.

life happening. i know.

i know also, there's lot's of bleefs in this world. we

should/shouldn't behave like this or that. the meaning of life is

this or that. ... ... it just goes on and on.

can you cope with your situation without getting sick over it?

to me that would be the indicator. the work is helping here. we are

in a work forum.

> > i too love your openness.

>

> Thanks. I appreciate your love.

fine. thanks.

>

> > I was wondering why you write it.

> > do you suffer from that situtation.

>

> I used to suffer a lot because of it.

> Now, I suffer quite less.

I'm pleased to hear this.

> > do you want to " change " it.

>

> If I had " real " power and choice,

> I might have already changed it.

hm. this sounds good in the first moment. wise in the second, a

little concerning in the third moment. i find it interesting and

challenging in relationshiops when one is open to change, while the

other tries to stay and keep things the way they were.

A few days ago i read this:

Life is like a cricket match. It is like a bowler throwing various

kinds of balls at you – ball of pain, ball of pleasure, ball of

hatred, ball of jealousy, ball of crisis. You are the batsman. Your

life depends on how you play these balls.

In a cricket match if the bowler knows you are afraid of leg-breaks,

he'll constantly bowl leg- breaks at you. So is life. If you do not

accept the balls it bowls, it will bowl only such balls since that

is your weakness. Being a batsman you are expected to face every

kind of ball. You cannot afford to say I would not face a particular

kind of a ball or a bowler. If you say that then the opposing team

captain would only make that bowler bowl. Life knows what you are

afraid of and only such kinds of balls would come. Therefore, if you

learn to play all the balls, your problems would get solved.

Learning to play all the balls is nothing but Recognizing, Accepting

and Experiencing events and incidents as they occur without trying

to run away from them. You should not think life would be nice and

kind. It would bowl all kinds of balls. A good batsman would not run

away from the field saying it is a tough ball.

If you are fighting jealousy then life would keep giving you

situations where you would feel more jealous. But if you learn to

play the balls of jealousy by experience it then the opposing

captain would declare that you have won. He would concede because

you are now hitting every ball for a six.

And what is it to hit every ball for a six - To experience

everything in life. The art of experiencing is the art of batting.

If you could experience every thing, what ever be the situation you

have won. If you can do that here, you are fully enlightened. An

enlightened man is one who can hit every ball for a six.

>

> > do you look for solutions?

>

> Yes.

Would you like me to also look a little bit around, and tell you if

i find something interesting?

> > e.g. when you

> > read things like wiki, or tolle.

>

> Yes.

i see. thanks.

>

> >

> > in case you're looking for let's say relief, i wonder if i can

be of any help.

>

> Sure. How would you like to help?

>

> > hm. are you looking for input?

>

> Sure.

i know different therapists, which i could ask. e.g.

>

> > you mean you love the whole collection. did i get you right?

>

> I mean I love my wife, I love my life,

> I love my family, I love my kids.

i can sense that from your words.

> > hm i am somehow impressed how people are willing to stand

> > situations, i would not want to accept.

>

> I can understand that.

>

> I imagine that a severe desease or

> disablity or extreme poverty will be

> extremely difficult to stand and I have

> great praise for them who do it

> with peace, consciousness and grace!

I know from experience that this also belongs to your inner attitude

towards life. there seems to be a tendency in " humanity " to

imagine " worst cases " . and then come back from that imagination with

different outputs. i know from experience that some of these worst

cases are not that terrible as they seem to be when they get

imagined. and again, a lot depends on, how the " inner

attitude/thinking " is.

i can imagine that you found ways to cope better and suffer less in

your situation. and as you are on your way and i can hear that you

truely love your wife with all your heart and deeds you will most

probably continue to find reliefing ways to deal with it. and i

notice that you are also quite cute. she can damage your books,

letters and so on. you still find your way.

> > did you mean, you wonder how people cope with situations, where

they

> > are somehow exposed, like prison, or CC?

>

> Yes, that's what I meant.

ok.

>

> > >

> > > IOW... people do have their [seemingly]

> > > just and fair freedom in many situations.

> >

> > do you sometimes think, a marriage is somehow like a prison?

>

> No. I don't think so.

understood.

>

> I think there are many situations that involves

> 'limiation' on freedom prision is one of them,

> my situation is one of them.

i see.

would you marry her again?

> > ask your heart. you have access to your own wisdom!

>

> I don't want to leave my wife.

>

> I love my wife.

>

> That is true for now.

yes. maybe you are that indian man on one of these to photos. maybe

you know this old indian structure. 1 quarter of life is for

childhood and education, second build a life, family etc. 3. i cant

quite remember, fourth, withdrawel and spiritual life.

it can be great! to keep a family together as long as it is somehow

possible. there are so many ways of living. can you talk with your

wife heart to heart, genuinly?

> > my ideal was and is, to live in a healthy happy relationship, or

on

> > my own. but not in an unhappy one. that's only my philosphy.

>

> I can undersatnd that.

> I respect and appreciate your choice

> and your courage to live in accordance

> with your choice.

i just shared a bit of my background to give you an idea. i had my

share in " difficult balls " and i'm sure there will be more coming.

but i can take them with less and lesser inner pain. this is what i

wish for you, too.

> >

> > ok. let's ask differently. more specific. do you limit her in

> > return?

>

> No, I don't think so.

> And, she has never told me that I lmit her in any way.

i see. thanks for your response. i see you love her.

> > do you live tit for tat responses.

>

> No, I don't think so.

fine.

> > > Thanks for writing Rose!

> >

> > your welcome. when i read your posting (the one before), my

physical heart started to ache immensly.

>

> I can undersatnd that too.

>

> I love you Rose!

thanks.

> > PS: and again the question: do you do any kind of fights, like

> > marcial arts or fight clubs, or what?

>

> No, I don't.

ok. i understand. i got that impression from a former posting of you.

>

> BTW... my wife doesn't want me to do yoga too!

> In fact, she fights... if she sees me doing yoga!

what is it, that she's so afraid of?

>

> Sometimes [like yesterday night] she looks

> into my eyes... to check if had been

> 'meditating' behind her back!!!

>

> Don't you find it hilarious!!!

>

> I do.

in a way, yes. if i could manage to be in balance. yes. : )

hm. i think if i was in your place and i would have chosen to stay

with my marriage-partner i would have gone through different phases.

resistance, fight, resignation, acceptance (maybe). i would make

sure that i have input. input in the meaning of that i do get my

real needs and wants satisfied. i mean genuine contact with other

humans. closeness/intimacy with myself. fun, getting nurtured from

inside and outside. have you for example seen the movie " shall we

dance " ? there is an japanese original that is much more im-

/expressive than the hollywood remake. but even that is great.

>

> Thanks for writing Rose!

you're welcome. thanks for answering. i'm learning from you.

>

> Greeting and love,

> ac.

greetins and love, too.

rose