RE: Looking for guidance to avoid conflicting protocols

[Guest guest]

Hi Fifi,

How do you know you have Lyme Disease, and do you suspect having any

coinfections?

Adam

>

> All these years of searching, studying, and trying *everything* to heal

without knowing what the problem was, and now that I know it's chronic Lyme

(along with mold illness and mercury poisoning), and now that I've found

Rosner's books and you guys, I'm shocked to find protocols I'd never heard of

before!

>

Fifi

[Guest guest]

Hi, Adam -

I went from being an amateur athlete who was *never* sick to being chronically

ill for many years with symptoms that track with chronic Lyme. We were big

campers in Wisconsin in the early '80's before there was consciousness around

Lyme and I remember smacking ticks off me and being annoyed at the splattering

of blood. Over the years I've had inconclusive Lyme tests of various stripes,

and a very ugly CD57 test finally this spring. After starting the Buhner

protocol late this spring the chronic fevers have finally lessened and some of

the brain fog and fatigue have started to lift somewhat. Chronic Lyme is the

only thing that makes sense and that tracks on all fronts, but I do feel stalled

in my healing.

As far as coinfections go, I suspect now that it was babesiosis that had me

passing out beyond the building when I was in grad school 20 years ago, waking

up shaking with chills and completely drenched with sweat. I used to ask my

international friends how malaria was any different. Doctors were useless -

ignorant and shaming.

I don't have the symptoms of babesiosis any more. Can't be sure about other

coinfections, but am aware that they could very well be play a part.

Anyway, I had a rough day after only 2 doses of Wobenzyme, so I'll cut back to a

single dose every other day and work up very, very slowly. Still tempted by the

Salt/C, but that will have to wait.

Thanks.

> >

> > All these years of searching, studying, and trying *everything* to heal

without knowing what the problem was, and now that I know it's chronic Lyme

(along with mold illness and mercury poisoning), and now that I've found

Rosner's books and you guys, I'm shocked to find protocols I'd never heard of

before!

> >

> Fifi

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jan. Moderate herxing on buhner since I increased the dose very slowly.

Now the herxing seems cyclical. One of the challenges is remembering to take

the binders away from the supplements. Was wondering about the Wobenzyme. Will

keep some distance there. Can't wait to get a machine and get a break from some

of these supplements.

>

> Hi Fifi

> Are you herxing on the buhner herbs? If so,how strong are the herxes?You dont

want to add too many things together at one time if you are already getting big

herxes.If the herxes are minimal its fine to add a second protocol, but be

cautious to start very very slowly.Make sure that you are taking the binders far

away from the herbs and supplements wobenzyme needs to be taken away from the

binders too.That much binders is good to bind the heavy metals though..Adding in

the clays make sure you are getting lots of fluids.If you get constipated, you

need to be able to figure out which binder is causing the problem.

> jan

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi Fifi,

Let's see, Wisconsin, camping, swattin' ticks and inconclusive Lyme tests are

all positive things for Lyme.. If you lived on a boat out in the middle of the

ocean,

you probably would not have Lyme...

I first like to hear the symptoms, then where someone lives or plays, add in

ticks

and more and more are the chances it is Lyme... Testing for Lyme and

coinfections

is often not accurate. I have 3 negative tests respond to antibiotics (abx),

I surely herxed while on them, but they could not bring me to better health..

My wife also with 3 negative Lyme tests responded very well to abx and today is

Lyme

free... She was however treated just after the tick bite, even though the

initial Doxycycline

was not successful and she went into the chronic phase, IV Rocephin and oral

Flagyl

was successful for her... I believe having been treated with Doxy very quickly

kept

her infection rate low and thus abx was eventually successful in killing the

Lyme organisms.

If she did not have Lyme as her tests suggested, she would not have responded to

the abx

and would not have herxed... AND for sure, she would not have gotten her health

back just

by treating with abx...

The best way to determine if you do have Lyme is by symptoms and where you live

and play..

Both living and playing (camping) in WI definitely increases your chances of

Lyme... So now

you really should take a look at symptoms (you probably already have).. Since

you live and play in a Lyme positive area, having 10 or more symptoms are a

pretty good indication of Lyme.. Then,

if you herx from a killing protocol, you most surely have Lyme..

Lyme symptoms..

http://www.canlyme.com/patsymptoms.html

Coinfection symptoms:

http://www.lymeinfo.net/coinfectionarticle.html

Adam is correct on questioning your Lyme, reason is other illnesses sometimes do

mimic Lyme symptoms very closely....

If you have ever herxed from any treatment protocol or have seen the infamous

bullseye rash (usually only seen on 30 - 50%), then you probably have Lyme... If

you've had the rash, it equals 100% Lyme.

And today, it is very common if you have Lyme, you may also have one or more

coinfections... The good news is rife/Coiliing and MMS works on all of these...

Just listening to where you live and that you camped a lot, I feel you are at

high risk for Lyme... But best to be sure via symptoms... WI as you may know is

a very high state for ticks that carry Lyme.. And if you have been to several

doctors and don't have any kind of other dx of illness, this makes for even a

stronger case you may have Lyme as most doctors will not dx Lyme as they don't

know much about the chronic phase of the disease... I went 15 years with only a

dx of gut dismotility, but no real disease dx.. My only symptom was gut

dismotility, nothing else.. In Dec 2005, I awoke with what I thought was the

worst flu, I never recovered, having severe fatigue and brain fog, achy joints

and muscles and a host of other cognitive issues... Having learned about Lyme

from my wife's bout with it, 3 weeks later I realized my symptoms were the same

as hers, I had Lyme.. Soon after joining my first Lyme support group in

January, 2006, I learned from a posting from a paper written by Virginia T.

Sherr, MD that one of the first symptoms of inactive Lyme is gut dismotility.. I

got this dx in 1993 and a total of 70 different doctors never mentioned Lyme and

never gave me any other dx...

http://www.thehumansideoflyme.net/viewarticle.php?aid=62

I hope for your sake you post you don't have Lyme symptoms!! But I am bettin'

you do...

I think you will find our group is a great resource for Lyme... Somehow the

members always have a way

of helping others see the real truth about their situation... Having you think

about whether you do indeed have Lyme or not really helps you determine what you

do next... I would hate to see you buy an expensive rife machine only to find

out you have mercury poisoning and not Lyme!! The more you talk about and read

the research about Lyme, you will become more comfortable with the decisions you

make... Again, if you have herxed, had a bullseye rash or have a lot of Lyme

symptoms, chances are high you do have Lyme...

We are all in this together!! And while we come here to learn about things that

help us, we also help many others along the way... :-)

Take care,

Jim

> > >

> > > All these years of searching, studying, and trying *everything* to heal

without knowing what the problem was, and now that I know it's chronic Lyme

(along with mold illness and mercury poisoning), and now that I've found

Rosner's books and you guys, I'm shocked to find protocols I'd never heard of

before!

> > >

> > Fifi

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Jim. I'm as sure as I can be about anything that I have Lyme...just not

sure what co-infections are present at this time. The symptoms have aligned for

years. After I started treatment for the mold illness (which is ongoing), some

chronic virals, and once I understood about the mercury poisoning (Cutler

protocol ongoing as the body permits), then it was easier to sort out the

symptoms that remained.

Have had the first relief in years with Buhner's herbal protocol (thanks to an

herbalist who packages this stuff together so I don't have yet another thing to

stress over), but feel stalled. When I muscle-test myself, the rifing comes up

as of significant help, but till I can save for a machine, I'll work with the

other protocols first. (Still trying to entice a retired nerd buddy to build a

machine for me.)

Gingerly starting the salt/c and *loving* the green clay/DE detox drink. Since

my body reacts to pretty much anything with severe migraines, it's great to have

something that helps lessen the load and this is more effect than most I've

tried. Had the best steam las night...was able to tolerate the heat (can't

always) and just kept drinking water.

Would like to start MMS and Essiac and will try the enzymes again later. (Hard

to sort the timing of the protocols, esp. when some involve " binding "

components, like the mold protocol.) Still looking for reliable sources of MMS

and Essiac. Emailed the " membership application " to what I thought was a

reliable MMS group, but the email bounced back, so I guess they're gone. Also

overwhelmed trying to sort out the Essiac folks. Was familiar with the tea over

the decades I was trying to sort out why I was so sick, but figured it was just

something else that was fabulous for others, but that would be yet another

disappointment for me. I've tried so many things to heal over the years, before

it was narrowed to Lyme. If you folks think it's worth a shot, I'm game...just

need to find it.

There's a part of me that feels that having the little buggers encyst for a

short while would be worth having a breath of relief, but I know that's not a

solution. Still... ;-}

Many thanks in advance for leads on MMS and Essiac.

Best regards,

Fifi

> > > >

> > > > All these years of searching, studying, and trying *everything* to heal

without knowing what the problem was, and now that I know it's chronic Lyme

(along with mold illness and mercury poisoning), and now that I've found

Rosner's books and you guys, I'm shocked to find protocols I'd never heard of

before!

> > > >

> > > Fifi

> > >

> >

>

[Guest guest]

The problem with allowing the Lyme to encyst is that it reproduces while

encysted. That is why you hear about people who have been on long term

antibiotic therapy say that they quit the abx after 6 months and feel worse then

ever. Once the stop everything that went into cyst comes out along with all of

the offspring.

> > > > >

> > > > > All these years of searching, studying, and trying *everything* to

heal without knowing what the problem was, and now that I know it's chronic Lyme

(along with mold illness and mercury poisoning), and now that I've found

Rosner's books and you guys, I'm shocked to find protocols I'd never heard of

before!

> > > > >

> > > > Fifi

> > > >

> > >

> >

>