Re: Intense Sewage Stink, Mold Force Renters Out

[Guest guest]

One has to wonder, what took them so long and why the situation that

developed had to end in a number of people losing their affordable homes.

Why couldn't they have fixed it sooner?

[Guest guest]

it's all about the money, ignore to save money, but suprize, ingoring

may end up costing more. thats what they get for trying to make a fast

buck and/or saveing their fast made bucks with no regard for peoples

health.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> One has to wonder, what took them so long and why the situation that

> developed had to end in a number of people losing their affordable

homes.

> Why couldn't they have fixed it sooner?

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

The problem is it RARELY does cost more it seems in the current atmosphere..

they may come out ahead because they get their low rent tenants out and then

I'm sure will move in higher rent ones after the 'remodeling'.. (NOT!)

The only situation in which it would cost more is if people sue and win..

and the likelihood of that appears slim, even in cases like this.

For example, do you see the upstairs tenants suing in the current political

atmosphere?

No, of course not, nomatter how sick it might have made them (and how could

it have not?)

What we need is some kind of mechanism that FINES THE VIOLATORS

AUTOMATICALLY AND PUTS THAT MONEY IN A FUND FOR MEDICAL TREATMENT OF ALL

VICTIMS even if no people have come forward yet to say they were sick...

(they quite well may be ill from a million things but not know mold and/or

endotoxins caused it)

No fuss no muss..

[Guest guest]

a lot depends on design when it comes to apartments or homes. if its

moldy below, as in basement you may be less exposed up in higher

apartments and if the roof leaks the higher apartments may be worse.

if its down inside walls,there may be no safe spot. even seperate

entrances can make a difference. insulation vs. no insulation, air

flow if theres no insulation would be a big factor sence heat rises

so would other things with it and even windy days would factor in.

--- In , LiveSimply <quackadillian@...>

wrote:

>

> The problem is it RARELY does cost more it seems in the current

atmosphere..

> they may come out ahead because they get their low rent tenants out

and then

> I'm sure will move in higher rent ones after the 'remodeling'..

(NOT!)

>

> The only situation in which it would cost more is if people sue and

win..

> and the likelihood of that appears slim, even in cases like this.

>

> For example, do you see the upstairs tenants suing in the current

political

> atmosphere?

>

> No, of course not, nomatter how sick it might have made them (and

how could

> it have not?)

>

> What we need is some kind of mechanism that FINES THE VIOLATORS

> AUTOMATICALLY AND PUTS THAT MONEY IN A FUND FOR MEDICAL TREATMENT

OF ALL

> VICTIMS even if no people have come forward yet to say they were

sick...

> (they quite well may be ill from a million things but not know mold

and/or

> endotoxins caused it)

>

> No fuss no muss..

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

I read an article in Indoor Air a few months ago that basically proves that

particles in air move

throughout a wooden building - once inside the building envelope they

migrate everywhere

and the difference between inside and outside is much more important than

where they are

(up down or sideways)

That has a lot of implications for sick buildings - it shows that reservoirs

of moly material need to be

eliminated even if they are inside of walls and out of sight.

The smaller particles especially migrate freely.. and Dr. Straus's research

on particles smaller than conidia

show that with stachybotrys, for example, most of the mycotoxins end up on

particles smaller than spores which

can penetrate the tiniest holes.. (and their inhibition of protein synthesis

is also high - way out of proportion to

their weight or quantity, because the very smallest particles, in addition

to being the most deeply respired,

they also also seem to be the most toxically contaminated.)

At least that is the way I read it..

There also is the endotoxin, (such as LPS) trichothecene synergistic

magnification effect..

for example, stachy trichothecenes are far more toxic in the presence of

even small amounts of LPS.

(there are massive amounts of endotoxins in bacteria contaminated situations

like the one in the Washington Post article)

On 6/18/07, who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> a lot depends on design when it comes to apartments or homes. if its

> moldy below, as in basement you may be less exposed up in higher

> apartments and if the roof leaks the higher apartments may be worse.

> if its down inside walls,there may be no safe spot. even seperate

> entrances can make a difference. insulation vs. no insulation, air

> flow if theres no insulation would be a big factor sence heat rises

> so would other things with it and even windy days would factor in.

>

>

[Guest guest]

ofcorse it filters throughout the home. but that process takes time

and depends on many things. I hnow because I lived it in my first

home from the from the time it started. I also know what it can be

like when a homes tottally infested as in my second home.

now if you want to depend on outside counts vs. inside you better

have someone that knows the area and are experts in what they do.

it's not that cut and dry. example, one dry windy day here might mean

a fairly close count inside my first home , yet a dry windy day out

side could range from a little to a lot just based on the time of

year. what crops are being havested, humidity, so on and so on.

even inside counts can vary just depending on the activity that day.

good luck trying to deturmine anything based on insodr outside

airtests.

> >

> > a lot depends on design when it comes to apartments or homes.

if its

> > moldy below, as in basement you may be less exposed up in higher

> > apartments and if the roof leaks the higher apartments may be

worse.

> > if its down inside walls,there may be no safe spot. even seperate

> > entrances can make a difference. insulation vs. no insulation, air

> > flow if theres no insulation would be a big factor sence heat

rises

> > so would other things with it and even windy days would factor in.

> >

> >

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Yes, you are totally right..

" Mold counts " simply count spores OF ANY KIND WHATSOEVER.. its meaningless

except as part of a wider context of information and one or two tests should

NEVER be allowed to 'show' a place is safe.

(OTOH, one or more 'bad' spore tests can and should be used to show that a

problem exists.. But a 'clean' test DOES NOT MEAN A PROBLEM DOES NOT EXIST)

Spore tests with filter traps used to capture spores?

They are inherently flawed on so many levels.. Even the ones with smaller

filter pores, oil on the target to catch the bouncy ones, etc. (the new

kind, forget its name) they all have that flaw that in order to work they

must pass air through.. and the spores must be identifiable.. which excludes

mycotoxin laden particles.. Straus's 'particles smaller than conidia'

( http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/71/1/114?view=long & pmid=15640178 )

They dont show species unless they are sporulating which does not map well

to mycotoxin production, Stachybotys can be very bad and not show up at all

as described above, They can't distinguish by species of asp/pen and others,

they undercount smaller spores which is many asp/pen spp., they can be

overwhelmed in urban, high particulate situations, they take a skilled lab

person and much time to read, and some labs have terrible track records of

inaccuracy, they vary tremendously based on when and where they are taken,

too much to make them useful in situations like where a space has been

vacant for some time (and they show more spores when air has been stirred

up, say as by vacumning) They are effected by humidity.

I have seen papers that show that the results from tests taken with the same

kind of equipment at the exact same time and the same place sent to

different labs vary tremendously.

Also, the species shown in QPCR are much more accurate.. I think we should

be transitioning away from spore testing and towards QPCR and mycotoxin

testing. QPCR is much more meaningful.. Toxin testing isn't widely available

yet, with the biggest obstacle being the huge volumes that need to be

sampled to get detectable amounts of toxins.. (unformtunately, human lungs

are excellent high volume samplers, i.e. toxin collectors) but it soon will

be..

Bla bla bla.. I need to get off this computer and get out and get some fresh

air.. *laugh*

This is an emotional issue for me, I'm sorry..but its important//

On 6/19/07, who <jeaninem660@...> wrote:

>

> ofcorse it filters throughout the home. but that process takes time

> and depends on many things. I hnow because I lived it in my first

> home from the from the time it started. I also know what it can be

> like when a homes tottally infested as in my second home.

> now if you want to depend on outside counts vs. inside you better

> have someone that knows the area and are experts in what they do.

> it's not that cut and dry. example, one dry windy day here might mean

> a fairly close count inside my first home , yet a dry windy day out

> side could range from a little to a lot just based on the time of

> year. what crops are being havested, humidity, so on and so on.

> even inside counts can vary just depending on the activity that day.

> good luck trying to deturmine anything based on insodr outside

> airtests.

>

> >

>

>