Re: Is analysis of mental pain always good?

July 8, 2006

Dear Adithya,

Am 08.07.2006 um 00:31 schrieb adithya_comming:

> If a physical wound didn't hurt, if a thorn,

> nail, a piece of glass or other foreign object

> that entered body didn't hurt, we may not notice

> it, we may not pay any attention to it and it might

> end up causing great pain.

Well, eventually it causes enough pain so that we notice.

> This way we can see that pain [including

> mental pain] is a call for attention.

> It is a call for awareness and consciousness,

> for observation, examination and investigation.

Yes. That's how I see it.

> And, in this way, pain when happens is " good "

> i.e. pain that happens " should " happen - it

> is the intrinsic intelligence at work.

>

> However, in case of physical pain, we have seen

> that even if suppress it by taking sedatives,

> the wound does recover by itself [or by medicine]

> if all else goes fine. In fact, taking 'sedatives'

> sometimes help you " relax " which is often

> very important for the effective recovery to take place.

Right. When all else goes fine.

> What happens when you

> 'suppress' ['forget] mental pain? Does the same

> thing happens as in physical pain i.e. you might

> really forget it as the time passes?

>

> [it is often said: Time heals every wound.]

When " all else " is taken care of, yes. It can even happen instantly.

> In case of a physical wound, if you

> keep 'opening it up' and 'examining' it

> more than necessary - in many cases, you might

> make it worse and greatly delay the recovery.

> Do you think same thing happens with the mental

> pain too? Does it become worse and recovery from

> it delayed by 'over examination' and 'over analysis'?

>

> To really examine a physical wound in order

> to make it 'heal' one needs to be reasonably

> well skilled and experienced else you might do

> more harm than good. Does examining mental

> wound to 'cure' it too requires good expertise,

> skill and experience or can any amateur do

> it well?

>

> What is your experience?

My experience is that examining an emotional " wound " gives me the

awareness that there was no wound to begin with. I was the one

causing it all the time.

Doing the work, for instance, makes me realize how I am causing that

pain. And anyone is an expert at that.

And only the one causing the pain can heal it.

So, as far as I am concerned, there is no " amateur " when it comes to

exploring one's own thoughts.

Love,

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July 15, 2006

Dear nne,

> That sinister voice you hear is the *I know* mind and I had one too.

You *HAD* one? I am sorry to hear you lost it! But, eventually it

will find you. Mine always has!

It's my friend and I don't have to believe everything it says.

And if I do, it shows me what is left.

Love,

___________________________________________________________

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July 15, 2006

Dear Pandy,

Am 15.07.2006 um 00:58 schrieb pandy273:

> Hello there, , thank you for your ideas.

You are welcome. And they aren't mine. They never were.

>

>>> PS By the way, , on the other thread, started by

>>> (I

>>> hope she'll find the answers she is looking for), you implied (I

>>> think)

>>> that once she gave her friend money for the cruise, it wasn't hers

>>> anymore. But how come, she didn't give it to him as a gift, she

>>> gave

>>> it to him to buy her share for her, surely there is a

>>> difference?

>>> Very

>>> thick, me, it would seem...

>> I don't know. But what was the deal? And was he aware of it? And

>> what

>> was he to do, if it did not work out?

>> And had it really been better, if he had sent it back?

> I think it would have been better for , yes. I presume she,

> or her parents, had to work hard to earn the money, and it would be a

> fair deal if she could use it in order to restore herself from that

> hard work.

Yes, they may have worked REALLY hard for it. Maybe they gave their

whole life to get that money. And what's her use for it? She gave it

to someone for a dream she had.

He may have better use for it.

And I am not saying she didn't put it to good use. She used it well,

and gave it to him. And now she thinks he used it wrong, and wants it

back. And not even because she needs it, but because she thinks she

made a mistake, and wants to make it undone.

And all of this doesn't have anything to do with the " real " .

> Oh dear, I am totally hung up on justice and fairness and all that,

> and I know that the reality of it 'on this planet', as BK would say,

> is not up to my expectations. But then she also says it's not about

> morality, but about peace, or whatever. How can we all live here

> without some rules, including morality, respect, etc.? Is it true

> that there shouldn't be any 'shoulds'? Yes, I am lost again...

Oh, who is saying that everyone is living without any " shoulds " or

without justice or fairness? The world just doesn't abide to YOUR

idea of justice and fairness. This is what fairness looks like: you

have money -> you give it to me -> I have money.

It is not my fairness that can cost you your peace. It is your not

being fair, that costs you your peace.

And it has nothing to do with you not asking your money back. You try

to get it back. And notice how you feel while you do it. Are you

coming from a place of anger, or from a place of peace?

>> If I give my money to someone... who's money is it?

> Depends on the understanding of the reason why you gave it in the

> first place. And if it is meant as a gift, once you gave it, it's

> not yours, and I am very clear on that. Otherwise, one may say you

> are giving the money conditionally, right? What about honour? The

> reality of it on this planet is that it still counts. And, to press

> the idea further, there are laws. What, is it true that there should

> be laws? My inquiry has a very cynical and nasty voice that I just

> can't shut up.

And who are you asking with " your " inquiry ?

Let's see...

If you toss a coin into a fortune well, and your wish doesn't get

fulfilled... you don't get upset at the well, do you?

And next time, will you toss a coin into a fortune well? I know that

I may.

>> You give me money to buy something for me. Who's money is it, then?

>> AND it is quite a difference, whether this is about the money, for

>> you, or this is about keeping a deal

>>

>> I gave a friend money to be his buisness partner, and we had a

>> contract. His buisiness failed. He asked me for more money to

>> bring

>> it up again. I had the money, so I gave it to him. He spent it not

>> on

>> the buisness he said he would (he couldn't, it didn't work out the

>> way he planned) and so he invested it in another buisness-idea of

>> his. Which failed. At first I thought: he should have asked me!

>> But

>> then I realized: what did I need the money for? How could have

>> having this money have made me happier?

> Maybe not happier,

If that money doesn't make you happier, then what do you need it for?

Would you be rather have electricity, now, or would you rather be happy?

Would you rather have a meal, in this moment, or would you rather be

happy?

Would you rather have a billion dollars, or would you rather be happy?

> but it could have paid for your bills, food, I

> don't know.

And I hear that you don't know. Isn't that interesting? You don't

even know what you need that money for. And I did not hear that you

can't pay your bills, without that money. And if you needed it so

badly, what did you give it for, in the first place? What did you

want to get, that was more important to you, then paying your bills?

> You don't live in a cave for free and hunt for your

> meals, or live off wild berries and such, do you? You have worked,

> so that your natural human expensed can be covered, that's how it

> works, isn't it?

When I did not work, my human expenses were covered. When I did work,

my human expenses were covered. And is this still about the money she

gave to a friend? I didn't hear it was meant for her food or for her

bills, anyway.

I have lived without electricity, without a flat or a house, without

a car and without money and without food, and I could be happy.

>> Money isn't real. We use it to buy us what we think would make us

>> comfortable, secure, happy.

> Yes, I hear you. And I admit to there being loads of temptations to

> become too consumerist or whatever, it's not just our basic needs we

> are paying for.

What are your BASIC needs? Really, find that out for yourself!

> Money isn't real? Ok, BK says she is after peace.

> But she also says she is after the truth.

And she says, that it's the truth that sets you free.

The way I say it is:

Living in the truth doesn't GIVE you peace. Nothing can give you

peace. Because it's what you already have.

And Living in a lie " costs " you your peace. Because it focuses your

awareness on something that you are not.

> (And of course for other

> people, too.) But the question who would you be without... - may be

> answered, more peaceful, or - a liar. They seem to oppose each

> other. Sorry, it's not quite related to the subject at hand, but

> just popped into my head again as I was thinking about what you are

> saying here.

And I did not understand what you just said.

>> So... what does my happyness look like?

> I don't know,

So, how do you know when you found it?

> but you still have to pay your bills, don't you, happy

> or not. Argh....(a slight groan)

Well, do I really *have to*?

There *ALWAYS* is another option.

You know... to pay my bills incredibly eases my mind. It is SUCH a

caring thing to do for myself.

And if I am happy... who cares what I do?

What important, world-moving, future-planning, self-stabilizing and

caring things do YOU do when you are COMPLETELY happy, full of JOY?

>>> Thanks in advance,

>> Love,

>>

>

> Love from me, too,

Thank you so much.

___________________________________________________________

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July 15, 2006

Hi Pandy273,

I really like the way that you aren't 'spiritual,' that you are saying

what you really feel. For me, total honesty with myself has been a

really big help with my work.

I'd just like to tell you that there is no motive in doing the Work,

apart from finding out the truth. It isn't about getting a " no " answer

to the first two questions, or getting to a spiritual position, or

changing your thinking. Do it for the truth, and be honest with yourself!

One powerful question that I use sometimes is, " The world says it is

true, I believe it's true, I feel it's true - but is it, in reality,

true? " Honestly ask it and wait openly for today's answer, whatever it

is.

One more thing, I found listening to tapes of the Work a really big

help when I started. You can either buy them or there are lots of free

recordings around the internet, and someone here will probably point

you in the right direction if you want them.

Keep posting here, and welcome to the Work!

Thanks,

J

>

> > > PS By the way, , on the other thread, started by

> (I

> > > hope she'll find the answers she is looking for), you implied (I

> > > think)

> > > that once she gave her friend money for the cruise, it wasn't hers

> > > anymore. But how come, she didn't give it to him as a gift, she

> gave

> > > it to him to buy her share for her, surely there is a

> difference?

> > > Very

> > > thick, me, it would seem...

> > I don't know. But what was the deal? And was he aware of it? And

> what

> > was he to do, if it did not work out?

> > And had it really been better, if he had sent it back?

>

> I think it would have been better for , yes. I presume she,

> or her parents, had to work hard to earn the money, and it would be a

> fair deal if she could use it in order to restore herself from that

> hard work.

>

> Oh dear, I am totally hung up on justice and fairness and all that,

> and I know that the reality of it 'on this planet', as BK would say,

> is not up to my expectations. But then she also says it's not about

> morality, but about peace, or whatever. How can we all live here

> without some rules, including morality, respect, etc.? Is it true

> that there shouldn't be any 'shoulds'? Yes, I am lost again...

> >

> > If I give my money to someone... who's money is it?

>

> Depends on the understanding of the reason why you gave it in the

> first place. And if it is meant as a gift, once you gave it, it's

> not yours, and I am very clear on that. Otherwise, one may say you

> are giving the money conditionally, right? What about honour? The

> reality of it on this planet is that it still counts. And, to press

> the idea further, there are laws. What, is it true that there should

> be laws? My inquiry has a very cynical and nasty voice that I just

> can't shut up.

>

> > You give me money to buy something for me. Who's money is it, then?

> > AND it is quite a difference, whether this is about the money, for

> > you, or this is about keeping a deal

> >

> > I gave a friend money to be his buisness partner, and we had a

> > contract. His buisiness failed. He asked me for more money to

> bring

> > it up again. I had the money, so I gave it to him. He spent it not

> on

> > the buisness he said he would (he couldn't, it didn't work out the

> > way he planned) and so he invested it in another buisness-idea of

> > his. Which failed. At first I thought: he should have asked me!

> But

> > then I realized: what did I need the money for? How could have

> > having this money have made me happier?

>

> Maybe not happier, but it could have paid for your bills, food, I

> don't know. You don't live in a cave for free and hunt for your

> meals, or live off wild berries and such, do you? You have worked,

> so that your natural human expensed can be covered, that's how it

> works, isn't it?

>

> > Money isn't real. We use it to buy us what we think would make us

> > comfortable, secure, happy.

>

> Yes, I hear you. And I admit to there being loads of temptations to

> become too consumerist or whatever, it's not just our basic needs we

> are paying for. Money isn't real? Ok, BK says she is after peace.

> But she also says she is after the truth. (And of course for other

> people, too.) But the question who would you be without... - may be

> answered, more peaceful, or - a liar. They seem to oppose each

> other. Sorry, it's not quite related to the subject at hand, but

> just popped into my head again as I was thinking about what you are

> saying here.

>

> > So... what does my happyness look like?

>

> I don't know, but you still have to pay your bills, don't you, happy

> or not. Argh....(a slight groan)

>

> > > Thanks in advance,

> > Love,

> >

>

> Love from me, too,

>

July 15, 2006

Dear ,

I love you and that is the only thing *I know*,

nne

> Dear nne,

>

> > That sinister voice you hear is the *I know* mind and I had one too.

> You *HAD* one? I am sorry to hear you lost it! But, eventually it

> will find you. Mine always has!

>

> It's my friend and I don't have to believe everything it says.

>

> And if I do, it shows me what is left.

>

> Love,

>

> ___________________________________________________________

> Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

>

July 15, 2006

Slow down here, young lady.

It is , you are talking to

So... Slowly...

Take your words back, or, Grrr

I will have to do the work on you!

It is a joke, for any of you

who have no sense of humor

Love, T

> Dear ,

>

> I love you and that is the only thing *I know*,

> nne

>

> > Dear nne,

> >

> > > That sinister voice you hear is the *I know* mind and I had

one too.

> > You *HAD* one? I am sorry to hear you lost it! But, eventually

it

> > will find you. Mine always has!

> >

> > It's my friend and I don't have to believe everything it says.

> >

> > And if I do, it shows me what is left.

> >

> > Love,

> >

> > ___________________________________________________________

> > Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC:

http://messenger.yahoo.de

> >

>

July 16, 2006

Dear ,

I want to be clearer with you and Pandy.

I should have written that I what I " had " was a *sinister* and

*suspicious* I know mind especially regarding people. She had my best

interests at heart at the time of a wounding experience.

And I agree that I know mind is my friend and I don't have to believe

everything she says.

Love, nne

> Dear nne,

>

> > That sinister voice you hear is the *I know* mind and I had one too.

> You *HAD* one? I am sorry to hear you lost it! But, eventually it

> will find you. Mine always has!

>

> It's my friend and I don't have to believe everything it says.

>

> And if I do, it shows me what is left.

>

> Love,

>

> ___________________________________________________________

> Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

>

July 17, 2006

Hi Pandy,

I have the thought that you might call the Hotline and be facilitated by one

of the volunteers. I see a lot of beliefs that you might question with a

facilitator. One that I see implied in your comments it that you need a way

out of your depression. Is that true in this moment? And I am not saying

it is not. In any event, in my experience something synergistic happens

when being facilitated by another person. Consider trying it once, twice,

or even three times. This is a direction. Right direction? That suggests

that there is such a thing as a right and a wrong direction. Even if there