Re: Initiation

April 4, 1999

PS: If you eat packaged foods you can read the labels. This makes it easy.

Watch out for high carb stuff and stay away from it. Also, there are some

very good books out there. My favorite is Dr. Bernstein's Diabetic Solutions

by Bernstein.

Vicki

April 4, 1999

>The Illinois guy writes:

>

><< ... . I cannot cook so most of what I eat is frozen, canned, or

drive

>thru. I REALLY like biscuits & gravy and pizza and lasagna and buritos

and

>cheese and chocolate and all of those things I know I'll have to give

up now

Don't think of it as having to give up all those things. I'm a

confirmed chocoholic, and I thought I would never have another piece of

chocolate as long as I lived (which I intend to be a very long time).

Everything in moderation. Biscuit and gravy once in a while, lasagna

occasionally (small portions), burrito (not plural). Pizza for a treat

( a lot of people do have problems with pizza).

Hang in there, baby!

Robin G.

The untrue never is;

The true never isn't.

Krishna

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

April 4, 1999

Since my bg (I'm learning) wasn't all that far out of line (159 & 137)

do I really need to do the blood test so frequently? I figured I'd

leave that in the doc's hands. Is that a mistake?

Not to be rude, but it's not his life. One thing I have learned about

diabetes is that you have to take control and manage it yourself; no one

can or will do it for you.

I am not suggesting that you shouldn't follow your doc's advice, just

that you should be on top of your own health.

Robin G.

The untrue never is;

The true never isn't.

Krishna

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

April 4, 1999

>Thanks Robin. BTW, Was what you said true or untrue? I really can

have

>a biscuit and gravy? I LOVE biscuits and gravy!!!

>

>Bil

>

Yes, you can have A biscuit and gravy sometimes.

Robin G.

Everything I say is a lie. I am lying. (Kirk)

Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

April 4, 1999

In a message dated 99-04-04 19:28:04 EDT, you write:

<< ating " small bits " of anything is going to be a new experience for me.

The doc has orderd more bloodwork for me in a month. I'm guessing

that's mostly to make me accountable for my actions.

Since my bg (I'm learning) wasn't all that far out of line (159 & 137)

do I really need to do the blood test so frequently? I figured I'd

leave that in the doc's hands. Is that a mistake?

>>

A trick for cutting down on food quantities...use smaller plates! You'd be

surprised how this helps!

Well, as far as leaving anything in the doc's hands, not so good. It's YOUR

body. Count on yourself to keep up on things. If you don't test you['ll

never know what foods to eat. Some diabetics can eat stuff and not have high

BGs; with others, not.

But mainly keeping carbs low is the trick. I've written this before but

maybe you didn't see it. For what I consider the best basic book with LOTS of

suggestions, read " Dr. Bernstein's Diabetic Solutions " by Bernstein!

Vicki

April 4, 1999

Thanks Ann. I've got no meds at this point. It all comes down to diet,

diet, DIET right now. I enjoy a challenge, but...

Bil

There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

- - The Doctor

April 4, 1999

Thanks Susie.

My doc did not win my graces through this. He walked into the examining

room, shook my hand, and said, " Congratulations. You're diabetic. " He

then gave his recommendations for the 2200 cal ADA diet and that was

that. I was so overcome with disbelief that I just sat there with my

mouth agape as he talked.

Everything I'm learning about diabetes is coming from these lists. I

did get the exchange diet info from a dietician at the nursing home

where I work. I have some knowledge since my Mom and brother are

diabetic. I also had an aunt who was diabetic and went through the

process of lose a toe, lose a foot, lose a leg, lose the other leg, and

die. That scares the hell out of me. I also work with the elderly and

see the long term effects of diabetes on a daily basis. That scares the

hell out of me too.

I realize I have no choice but to battle it, for life's sake. I'm just

letting the reality of it all soak in slowly. I guess I'm type 2...

right? No insulin.

I'm 5' 11 " and 250 pounds so, yes Susie, the weight is going to have to

come off. That's the good part of all of this. Since I didn't have the

motivation to lose the excess weight before, now I have no choice but to

do so. I've been a glutton and I know it. I revelled in my overeating.

Guess I need to find a new hobby now.

I also feel ashamed that I brought my body to this point. Self-control

has never been my strong point. Let the discipline begin!

Bil

There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

- - The Doctor

April 4, 1999

Thanks !

You guys are all really great you know. You've all been very helpful

and supportive. I apreciate that. I didn't know where to turn.

Thanks a zillion.

Bil

There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

- - The Doctor

April 4, 1999

Thanks Vicki.

Eating " small bits " of anything is going to be a new experience for me.

The doc has orderd more bloodwork for me in a month. I'm guessing

that's mostly to make me accountable for my actions.

Since my bg (I'm learning) wasn't all that far out of line (159 & 137)

do I really need to do the blood test so frequently? I figured I'd

leave that in the doc's hands. Is that a mistake?

Bil

There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

- - The Doctor

April 4, 1999

Thanks Robin. BTW, Was what you said true or untrue? I really can have

a biscuit and gravy? I LOVE biscuits and gravy!!!

Bil

There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

- - The Doctor

April 4, 1999

The Illinois Guy writes:

<< ... I'm 5' 11 " and 250 pounds so, yes Susie, the weight is going to have

to come off. That's the good part of all of this. Since I didn't have the

motivation to lose the excess weight before, now I have no choice but to do

so. I've been a glutton and I know it. I revelled in my overeating. Guess

I need to find a new hobby now.

I also feel ashamed that I brought my body to this point. Self-control has

never been my strong point. Let the discipline begin! >>

Oh please, Bil ... don't beat yourself up!! Good gracious ... the rest of

the world beats us up enough!! In the first place, 250 pounds at 5'11 " is

not that bad. But mainly, Bil and the rest of us ... we are not type 2

diabetics because we are lazy gluttons!! I am a genealogist, and I can trace

" my " diabetes back many generations, to Ost Friesland. For generations, my

ancestors were hard-working farmers with none of the modern conveniences.

And yet they were diabetic. They didn't have Mc's, and they didn't

have Marie Callender frozen boxes of stuff. And they didn't sit at computer

terminals day and night. We are diabetic because <making a crappy joke here

.... > we picked the wrong ancestors. We inherited this disease, along with

our skin tone and the color of our eyes and the sound of our voices. There

is a reason for our hunger. The diabetes causes it. And there is a reason

why we can seem to merely look at food and gain weight, while our luckier

buddies can wolf down the triple cheeseburgers and pizza with abandon. Here

is a page for the new members to look at. The nice woman who did it is less

upbeat than I am, I think - but her insights are quite valuable.

http://www3.shore.net/~hat/resistance.html

We are not bad or weak. We have an inherited disease that causes an

inability to handle carbohydrates properly. Ordinarily they would be

converted into energy, but for us, some of them are packed on as unwanted

extra fat and the rest are peed, pooped, sweated and breathed out of us. We

don't get the energy we need from the (mainly carbohydrate) food we eat, so

we feel weak and listless, and have the urge to eat again, trying to " fix "

ourselves. Changing our eating habits is a slow miracle. Within a week, you

will see an amazing difference!! Meanwhile, don't let the jerks of the world

get you down. Your doctor deserves a good hard body punch.

Susie

April 4, 1999

COOL!!!! >grinning ear to ear<

Bil

There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

- - The Doctor

April 4, 1999

Bil,

I remember having a dream where my feet fell off the first night after being

diagnosed.... My doctor says he's heard of the one before...

He and the dietitian convinced me that I had a lot to do with how diabetes

affected my life. Here in New Mexico they preach a 50/50 plan of carbs &

non-carbs to provide balance and to lower the peak BG's... They also said

exercise and weight loss was crucial..

It was 1/5/99 the day I was diagnosed and I had just cranked out a 436 BG in the

doctors office. Oh yes, and weighed 232 and loved all the food that got me

there. At 52 I thought my life was ruined...and I was pissed...that it happened

to me... The next day the depression set in.. I already couldn't see very well

because of the sugar accumulation in my eyes and while I heard it would get

better, it was still getting worse...oh yes, and that confounded bottle of water

I had to carry everywhere was getting to be a pain... I figured I had really

screwed up the life that my wife and I had... Jeez, I'm not a depressed kind of

guy but it really hit me...

The doctor had told me to kiss off carbs completely till my numbers got

normal....I was in the middle of a sinus infection and was getting fed up with

all the changes... but I did clean off the cobwebs off the treadmill and start a

daily routine.

That week without carbs was BAD...but I did start to see the weight drop.. of

course, I'd stopped eating everything I loved and was learning to eat

salads...never high on my list. Also, I was taking 2 Amaryls a day and after a

visit to & Noble where we cleaned out their shelves of diabetes books

(and then our pantry of most of the goodies) and that was scaring my wife

because she'd read about " complications " ...

I was losing a little over 3 pounds a week so at least something was going

right... I was able to start cutting back on the dosage of Amaryl as the weight

came off... At about 17 pounds down I was able to stop them completely.

Once I got over the sinus infection I started to feel better because of all the

exercise and improved diet.. I was able to fit into clothes I hadn't worn in

years and I got over the depression after about 2 weeks...

I just hit 195, my target weight..well actually the target was 200 but I didn't

want to be dieting every other day so I gave the 5 pounds as leeway. I feel

pretty good, 4.3 mph on the treadmill for 38 minutes and 2 weekend day visits to

the health club...

We've taken most of the books back to B & N except for the ADA Diabetes Guide and

a Type 2 Exercise book... We've thrown away the fructose that we ran all over

town to try and find, discovering that being REAL careful with fruit, fake

jello, Jello pudding and my personal downfall, No sugar added Klondike bars

works. My favorite place to eat is Sweet Tomatoes (a roll your own salad bar and

soup palace)...

I've gotten a lot of help reading the newsgroups, web sites, the ADA magazine

Forcast....but sharing experiences with others while realizing that no two cases

work the same certainly helps.

Oh yes, I carry almonds with me to offset the carbs from an Outback Restaurant

dinner and my other favorites..

Life is really ok, I even now love a good salad, I'm aware of " complications "

but also that my exercise, food and approach to diabetes lessen the risk... And

I feel better than I have in a very long time... Oh yes, and people saying

" Jeez, , you've lost weight " doesn't hurt either.. I used to be irritated

with myself for failing at weight control...What I found out was I just didn't

have a good enough reason to do it...Now I do.

Hope this saga helps...

Illinois Guy wrote:

> Thanks Susie.

>

> My doc did not win my graces through this. He walked into the examining

> room, shook my hand, and said, " Congratulations. You're diabetic. " He

> then gave his recommendations for the 2200 cal ADA diet and that was

> that. I was so overcome with disbelief that I just sat there with my

> mouth agape as he talked.

>

> Everything I'm learning about diabetes is coming from these lists. I

> did get the exchange diet info from a dietician at the nursing home

> where I work. I have some knowledge since my Mom and brother are

> diabetic. I also had an aunt who was diabetic and went through the

> process of lose a toe, lose a foot, lose a leg, lose the other leg, and

> die. That scares the hell out of me. I also work with the elderly and

> see the long term effects of diabetes on a daily basis. That scares the

> hell out of me too.

>

> I realize I have no choice but to battle it, for life's sake. I'm just

> letting the reality of it all soak in slowly. I guess I'm type 2...

> right? No insulin.

>

> I'm 5' 11 " and 250 pounds so, yes Susie, the weight is going to have to

> come off. That's the good part of all of this. Since I didn't have the

> motivation to lose the excess weight before, now I have no choice but to

> do so. I've been a glutton and I know it. I revelled in my overeating.

> Guess I need to find a new hobby now.

>

> I also feel ashamed that I brought my body to this point. Self-control

> has never been my strong point. Let the discipline begin!

>

> Bil

>

> There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

> - - The Doctor

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Subject: Re: Initiation

> Date: Sun, 4 Apr 1999 08:42:08 -0400

> From: OtterCritter@...

> Reply-To: diabetes_intonelist

> To: <diabetes_intonelist>

>

> From: OtterCritter@...

>

> The Illinois guy writes:

>

> << I just found out I'm diabetic this week. I'm scared and confused about

> all of this diet stuff. HELP! >>

>

> Are you type 1 or type 1? If you are an adult type 2, odds are that you need

> to lose weight and exercise more. The main thing I have found which improved

> my diabetes so much that I don't need to take medicine is diet. I keep my

> carbohydrate intake beneath 100 grams a day (if possible - sometimes I can't

> seem to manage it when I'm on the road). What has your doctor told you? Are

> you seeing a dietitian? Many dietitians and doctors think type 2 diabetes is

> just a " disease " of overeating and indolence, but it's more complicated than

> that. The diabetes, in fact, is probably the chcken - not the egg. It

> prevents us from turning much of the food we eat into energy; instead, it

> converts it to body fat, and we end up becoming obese and feeling too

> listless to exercise. And then when we are finally diagnosed (years too

> late, in many cases), we are handed a starvation diet and told to exercise a

> lot ... when we can barely drag ourselves around already. That was my

> experience ... the dietitians lecturing me about cutting back on the

> desserts and fats, when I was already eating the standard American low-fat

> " healthy diet " of beans, rice, whole-grain breads and pasta, with only a

> hint of meat. It was that diet that got me into serious trouble. There are

> many books and many web sites that discuss various eating styles and how

> they impact your diabetes.

>

> Susie

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Ideas on how we can improve ONElist?

> http://www.onelist.com

> Check out the Suggestion Box feature on our new web site

April 4, 1999

Thank you VERY much . Your experience is very inspiring for me.

You have given me hope for conquering this brute. I am noticing that

everyone has a little different approach as to what does and doesn't

work. Guess we all have to walk our own path... but it is good to know

there are some folks on this list with a rough map.

Bil

There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

- - The Doctor

April 4, 1999

Granger wrote:

<< ... Life is really ok, I even now love a good salad, I'm aware of

" complications " but also that my exercise, food and approach to diabetes

lessen the risk... And I feel better than I have in a very long time ... >>

, that was a really nice, informative post. There is nothing better than

hearing the experiences and insights of other diabetics.

Susie

April 4, 1999

Bil

What you can and what you can't eat depends on you and your system. To

start with you must get and start using a glucometer. Most wal marts have

them and the rebates will almost pay for them. Get your doctor to write you

a prescription for enough for three a day to start (if your insurance will

cover that many). When I finally decided to take charge of my health after

a year of denial, I started doing post pardinal checking of my bg's. I soon

learned that I couldn't eat carbs hardly at all and still control my BG's, I

also bought a treadmill and started walking on a regular basis. I learned

that cereals, fruits except very occasionally, rice and potatoes and also

breads of any kind just didn't go with my system. Pizza is one of the worst

foods of all for a quick rise in BG's.

So you must learn what you can and what you can't eat. For the most part

your trip to the store would have sent me well over 400 in a heartbeat.

However, since starting low carb, my eyesight has cleared almost completely

up (with the exception of my 54 years reading glasses), I have quit having

heart flutters and not nearly so much leg pain.

However, after blowing everything this Easter sunday and consuming 3 cadbury

eggs (my very favorite chocolate) and being sick most all of the day, I

guess I won't do that again, even my eyesight was blurry this morning after

that little rebellion. You will soon learn control.

My mainstay is bacon and eggs or cheese omlette for breakfast, salad with a

low carb dressing, lettuce, red cabbage, green onions (just a few) cheese,

and a small steak or porkchop. olives, dill pickles for lunch (you can go

to burger king and order a whopper without the bun) Diet RC Cola (I have

the added problem of being sensative to aspartame which eliminates a lot of

things. Dinner consists of a good size piece of meat, brocoli or

cauliflower or green beans, a salad if I want it and some type of desert. I

love homemade icecream and make it with a product called splenda. It is

really good and better than store bought, jello or homade cheese cake.

I know you said you are not a cook but it is never to late to learn right?

In low carb you use butter, heavy cream and don't worry about fat. I know

this is against ADA recomendations but I could control BG's or weight on

their diet.

It doesn't take much common sense to realize that carbs sooner or later turn

into sugar in the bloodstream so sooner or later they will have to effect

the bg's. The more carbs the more sugar.

Oh yes Tuna fish with chopped celery, real mayonaise a little mustard is a

good lunch also.

There will be a lot who don't agree with me on the list but unless you are

on insulin already there are a lot of us on oral meds more successful with

the low carb diet and a lot have been able to come off meds entirely.

Hope this helps.

Ann S

Re: Initiation

> COOL!!!! >grinning ear to ear<

>

> Bil

>

> There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

> - - The Doctor

>

April 4, 1999

Bil...Biscuits and gravy? You sound like a Texan to me! 2200 calories seems

like a lot of food to me! It will to you too, if you play your *cards* right!

Eat lots of veggies, nornal amounts of fruit, 2 or three carb exchanges per

meal, normal helpings of meat, fish or other protein and keep fats in check. A

while back someone on another list posted a month of menus and recipes. I'll

send them privately, if you like. I think they were geared to 1500 to 1800

calories, so you can just *add to*.

Sorry it seems as though I deserted you, but I wanted to wait til I wasn't so

exhausted to respond! I spend Fri and Sat withabout 100 kids from our church at

a Leadership Training for Christ competition. We got our awards tonight. My

puppet ministry group got GOLD! So did my group that built a web page! I was

really proud of them. Especially my puppets! The only had two practices when

they were all there and one even missed dress rehearsal because he was sick!

Let me know about the menus. Take care and hang in there! (And don't worry

about insulin if you need it! Just began therapy in Oct and it is no big bad

bear!)

Illinois Guy wrote:

> Bill & Toni,

>

> Thanks for the warm welcome!!!

>

> I'm hearing about the ADA Exchange diet and the Atkins diet and calories

> and carbs and sweeteners and urine tests and blood tests and Type I and

> Type II and insulin and AAAAAACK!!!!!!

>

> The doc " suggested " a 2200 calorie ADA diet for me. My glucose test was

> at 159 for one test and 137 for another so the doc feels I can tame the

> diabetic beast with diet and exercise. He doesn't know me very well.

>

> I'm 35, 5'11 " , 250 pounds, and I love food. I cannot cook so most of

> what I eat is frozen, canned, or drive thru. I REALLY like biscuits &

> gravy and pizza and lasagna and buritos and cheese and chocolate and all

> of those things I know I'll have to give up now.

>

> I don't know what I'm going to do.

>

> Bil

>

> There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

> - - The Doctor

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

>

> Subject: Re: Initiation

> Date: Sat, 03 Apr 1999 21:27:06 -0600

>

> Reply-To: diabetes_intonelist

> To: diabetes_intonelist

> References:

>

> Hi Guy! Sorry to see you on this list, but glad we can be of service! Stay

> tuned for more info! Just ask and you shall receive...seek and you shall

> find...knock and the door will be opened to you! That's what I hope we can

> do here! Read the threads that interest you and you will learn a lot! I

> can't begin to describe the value of these lists to me. Write anytime!

> *hugs* Toni

>

> Illinois Guy wrote:

>

> > From: areacode618MSW@... (Illinois Guy)

> >

> > I just found out I'm diabetic this week. I'm scared and confused about

> > all of this diet stuff. HELP!

> >

> > Bil

> >

> > There's No Point In Being Grown Up If You Can't Be Childish Sometimes. -

> > - - The Doctor

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > Have you visited our new web site?

> > http://www.onelist.com

> > Onelist: Helping to create Internet communities

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Is ONElist important to you? Has it changed your life?

> http://www.onelist.com

> Come visit our new web site and share with us your stories

April 4, 1999

Ann Stagner writes:

<< ... It doesn't take much common sense to realize that carbs sooner or

later turn into sugar in the bloodstream so sooner or later they will have

to effect the bg's. The more carbs the more sugar ... >>

Ann, I agree with every one of your recommendations.

Susie

April 4, 1999

I disagree, If you are going to try it you must do a BG test about an hour

and a half after to see what affect it has for your system. For me it is

out completely and I suspect it will be for you as well. after all it is

almost entirely white flour and will quickly go from carb to sugar. These

are not even very complex carbs as white flour is highly processed.

Ann S

Re: Initiation

>

> >Thanks Robin. BTW, Was what you said true or untrue? I really can

> have

> >a biscuit and gravy? I LOVE biscuits and gravy!!!

> >

> >Bil

> >

>

> Yes, you can have A biscuit and gravy sometimes.

>

> Robin G.

>

> Everything I say is a lie. I am lying. (Kirk)

> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Start a new hobby. Meet a new friend.

> http://www.onelist.com

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>

April 4, 1999

Don't blame yourself for your dm! I refuse to let you! BTW where do you live.

I know of a great education program here in North Texas. Toni