Re: Co-Creating

[Guest guest]

>I have a partner who has been reading about that whole concept

of " create your reality " or co-creation, that is, how to change the

vibrations within so as to attract what you want.

I have always had a problem with this way of thinking because in

part, I just want to BE, not effort some wonderful ideal life. I

don't even know what that ideal life would be. I have ideas (rich,

healthy, talented.) but no idea of how to get there.

My stance has always been - what's meant to be will be.

So is this a form of " learned helplessness " ? Is this some kind of

cop-out?

<

I share your viewpoint. I believe and have seen that we can bring wealth, a

better job, a " good " partner into our lives. The problem with that lies in

our belief that having all these things is what will finally bring us the

happiness we so badly seek. NO external event, situation or thing will ever

gives us anything but a fleeting moment of " happiness " . The joy is inside of

us. It only surfaces when we investigate our thoughts and beliefs and we can

do that no matter what our external circumstances.

It is good to experiment with " changing your vibrations " , only to show you

how powerful your mind really is. But to do it with the expectation that you

will be happier than you are now once you have all those things, is to set

yourself up for further disappointment and diverting yourself from a way of

finding real and lasting joy.

[Guest guest]

Thank you for sharing your view... You bring up a good point. It

does seem like co-creation is more a diversion. I agree that the

mind can be powerful, but to what end? To get more stuff? A better

partner? A nicer bod?

From the discussion I heard by Esther Hicks (who relays the Teachings

of Abraham) it seems as if co-creation is the " ultimate " state - that

we are *meant* to achieve our desires, etc. etc.

This flies in the face of great Advaitic sages like Ramana Maharshi

who state:

" There are no stages in Realization or degrees of Liberation. There

are no levels of Reality; there are only levels of experience for the

individual.

If anything can be gained that was not present before, it can also be

lost, whereas the Absolute is eternal, here and now. "

and

" Engage yourself in the living present. The future will take care of

itself. "

Maybe I need to do The Work on " the present is not good enough. " I

think there is an underlying belief that I need to *DO* something...

that I must constantly improve things or myself to have a better

life. It's scary and hard to go within - my mind wants to go

anywhere else just to get that " juice. " As Tolle would say... to get

more fuel for the pain-body.

>

> >I have a partner who has been reading about that whole concept

> of " create your reality " or co-creation, that is, how to change the

> vibrations within so as to attract what you want.

>

> I have always had a problem with this way of thinking because in

> part, I just want to BE, not effort some wonderful ideal life. I

> don't even know what that ideal life would be. I have ideas (rich,

> healthy, talented.) but no idea of how to get there.

>

> My stance has always been - what's meant to be will be.

>

> So is this a form of " learned helplessness " ? Is this some kind of

> cop-out?

> <

>

> I share your viewpoint. I believe and have seen that we can bring

wealth, a

> better job, a " good " partner into our lives. The problem with that

lies in

> our belief that having all these things is what will finally bring

us the

> happiness we so badly seek. NO external event, situation or thing

will ever

> gives us anything but a fleeting moment of " happiness " . The joy is

inside of

> us. It only surfaces when we investigate our thoughts and beliefs

and we can

> do that no matter what our external circumstances.

>

> It is good to experiment with " changing your vibrations " , only to

show you

> how powerful your mind really is. But to do it with the expectation

that you

> will be happier than you are now once you have all those things, is

to set

> yourself up for further disappointment and diverting yourself from

a way of

> finding real and lasting joy.

>

[Guest guest]

What feels to me like the core attribute of " The Work " is to effect

" perceptual change. " I notice that often people seem to treat things in the

past and future like they are real and tangible an unalterable. In reality

they are extremely malleable. What " affirmations " seem to do is a function

in Neurolingusitc Programming called " future pacing. " You see the goal or

behavior accomplished and working in the future. The mind takes this idea

and sets about accomplishing it.

The unconscious mind doesn't distinguish between real and imagined things,

we do. Without the part of us that acts as the " explainer " (see Sperry's

split brain experiments) the mind in its raw state is actually like a little

puppy. It is impacted by what we " can't do " because the " explainer " needs to

limit and control input, so it evolves perceptions that shape and expand or

reduce creative choices so we don't become overwhelmed. Things like " The

Work " and affirmations challenge those explanations and expand our choices.

What we treat as real and concrete and fixed, suddenly becomes our personal

Silly Putty. To me, this is the definition of " Freedom. "

By now I know quite a few people have seen " The Secret. " What this strategy

presnts to me is a tool to prepare unconscious processes to creatively be on

the alert for accomplishing goals, often at the unconscious level. Just like

" The Work " disturbs poorly constructed beliefs (see NLP and meta-modeling)

the idea of affirmations also subtly begins to redefine created reality and

suddenly make us aware of resources that were actually there all the

time...we just made them invisible to us with unchallenged assumptions.

The answers we discover when we do the four questions are there all the

time. It's just that the questions tweak our perceptions to see alternatives

that were always there...just hiding behind unchallenged beliefs. If you see

a goal in your mind's eye and shape it so it feels like you already have it,

the brain starts looking for ways you get those results that you wouldn't

see if your mind filters were still governed by " I can never do this. " That

is just a known fiunction of consciousness. The most telling question to me

in the four is the one that asks who you would be without this thought. At

that moment I realize that the thought is expendable, and I come a little

closer to being my core self.

I enjoyed " The Secret. " It's a good story and I believe there is some truth

to its fundamentals. The idea is to reveal the answers that are always

already there, by removing the inhibiting beliefs that have remained

unchallenged. Once you understand that you DO create your own universe, the

next step is to take responsibility for that instead of blaming something or

someone else for what you perceive to be not working.

That seems to be the difficult part especially for those of us raised in

cultures that create whipping boys by the basket full. It is God's fault or

the Devil's fault or I got the " Evil Eye. " " The Work " shows us in a gentle,

logical way just how much we make up about our lives treating stories as

concrete facts. " The Secret " demonstrates how (if we get out of the way of

our unconscious mind) removing perceptual limitations can actually get us

what we want freeing our inner creativity to be able to see hidden

solutions. To have the picture of ourselves already having what we ask for

as " The Secret " demands, we have to remove limiting beliefs and perform the

" as if " game. " The Work " is a great tool for that.

Thank you for sharing your view... You bring up a good point. It

does seem like co-creation is more a diversion. I agree that the

mind can be powerful, but to what end? To get more stuff? A better

partner? A nicer bod?

From the discussion I heard by Esther Hicks (who relays the Teachings

of Abraham) it seems as if co-creation is the " ultimate " state - that

we are *meant* to achieve our desires, etc. etc.

This flies in the face of great Advaitic sages like Ramana Maharshi

who state:

" There are no stages in Realization or degrees of Liberation. There

are no levels of Reality; there are only levels of experience for the

individual.

If anything can be gained that was not present before, it can also be

lost, whereas the Absolute is eternal, here and now. "

and

" Engage yourself in the living present. The future will take care of

itself. "

Maybe I need to do The Work on " the present is not good enough. " I

think there is an underlying belief that I need to *DO* something...

that I must constantly improve things or myself to have a better

life. It's scary and hard to go within - my mind wants to go

anywhere else just to get that " juice. " As Tolle would say... to get

more fuel for the pain-body.

>

> >I have a partner who has been reading about that whole concept

> of " create your reality " or co-creation, that is, how to change the

> vibrations within so as to attract what you want.

>

> I have always had a problem with this way of thinking because in part,

> I just want to BE, not effort some wonderful ideal life. I don't even

> know what that ideal life would be. I have ideas (rich, healthy,

> talented.) but no idea of how to get there.

>

> My stance has always been - what's meant to be will be.

>

> So is this a form of " learned helplessness " ? Is this some kind of

> cop-out? <

>

> I share your viewpoint. I believe and have seen that we can bring

wealth, a

> better job, a " good " partner into our lives. The problem with that

lies in

> our belief that having all these things is what will finally bring

us the

> happiness we so badly seek. NO external event, situation or thing

will ever

> gives us anything but a fleeting moment of " happiness " . The joy is

inside of

> us. It only surfaces when we investigate our thoughts and beliefs

and we can

> do that no matter what our external circumstances.

>

> It is good to experiment with " changing your vibrations " , only to

show you

> how powerful your mind really is. But to do it with the expectation

that you

> will be happier than you are now once you have all those things, is

to set

> yourself up for further disappointment and diverting yourself from

a way of

> finding real and lasting joy.

>

[Guest guest]

You're already creating everything.

Even your dislike of what you've created.

hahahahaha

>

> I have a partner who has been reading about that whole concept

> of " create your reality " or co-creation, that is, how to change the

> vibrations within so as to attract what you want.

>

> I have always had a problem with this way of thinking because in

> part, I just want to BE, not effort some wonderful ideal life. I

> don't even know what that ideal life would be. I have ideas (rich,

> healthy, talented?) but no idea of how to get there.

>

> My stance has always been ? what's meant to be will be.

>

> So is this a form of " learned helplessness " ? Is this some kind of

> cop-out?

>

> I love the Work (and Advaita) because it helps me be present.

> Still. Less judgmental, less focused on egoic agendas. It takes me

> beyond mind identification. Yet is it really some form of depression

> that would keep me from co-creating? Am I holding myself (and by

> extension, my family) back from a better life by not attempting

> to " change my vibrations " ? I recognize that I feel somewhat

> overwhelmed by life ? I can see how I hide, evade? What that has

> told me is that I need to look at the feelings, identify underlying

> beliefs, and ask whether they are true? Or when the pain is too much,

> to sit in the feeling, drop the story, and let whatever is there

> burn?

>

> Does the Universe really operate in such a way that it is

> always " giving " ? But if your mind is not in perfect alignment, then

> what? Are you screwed? You're going to get crap because you are

> confused? That is exactly the reason I have stayed away from the co-

> create your reality paradigm. It seems shaming and warped.

>

> And yet recently spoke with Wayne Dyer (!) ? so now I'm more

> confused than ever!

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Amma,

Am 29.12.2006 um 18:38 schrieb amma1080:

> I have a partner who has been reading about that whole concept

> of " create your reality " or co-creation, that is, how to change the

> vibrations within so as to attract what you want.

Cool!

> I have always had a problem with this way of thinking because in

> part, I just want to BE, not effort some wonderful ideal life. I

> don't even know what that ideal life would be. I have ideas (rich,

> healthy, talented…) but no idea of how to get there.

Why would you want to get there? My stance is: if you're not happy

with what you have, you won't be happy with what you get.

New stuff sort of keeps you busy so you forget your problems for a

short time. And it never lasts.

> My stance has always been – what's meant to be will be.

Yes.

> So is this a form of " learned helplessness " ? Is this some kind of

> cop-out?

How do you " cop-out " ?

What is " being helpless " ?

You know, ... you breathe. Sometimes you are conscious of it,

sometimes not. That goes for about everything. You do what you do.

Take the breath-example: it's like to believe you will stop breathing

when you become unconscious of it. I was told there are people who

actually believe that. And it's pure innocence.

To question the " bad " stuff, stuff that makes us feel uncomfortable,

doesn't mean we get rid of it. So it doesn't matter whether you

question things you deem useful. get interested in your thoughts.

Question everything. Become an explorer of the mind. And go on doing

what you do. And observe that.

No way to cop out. No possibility to be helpless. Ever.

> I love the Work (and Advaita) because it helps me be present.

> Still. Less judgmental, less focused on egoic agendas. It takes me

> beyond mind identification. Yet is it really some form of depression

> that would keep me from co-creating? Am I holding myself (and by

> extension, my family) back from a better life by not attempting

> to " change my vibrations " ? I recognize that I feel somewhat

> overwhelmed by life – I can see how I hide, evade… What that has

> told me is that I need to look at the feelings, identify underlying

> beliefs, and ask whether they are true… Or when the pain is too much,

> to sit in the feeling, drop the story, and let whatever is there

> burn…

And what would this " better life " look like? Don't become a seeker,

for you never reach your goal.

Be happy with what you have, explore your thoughts AND get your

better life. And observe how you sometimes do things or don't do

things that support the way you think you should go.

Observe how you know what this " better life " would look like. Write

it down: your everyday life of the " better life " ! And see what is

left for you to be happy. And find how you know exactly what you had

to do to get to that better life. And observe when you follow that

path and when you don't.

> Does the Universe really operate in such a way that it is

> always " giving " ? But if your mind is not in perfect alignment, then

> what? Are you screwed? You're going to get crap because you are

> confused? That is exactly the reason I have stayed away from the co-

> create your reality paradigm. It seems shaming and warped.

It's a useful concept for some, it seems.

The Universe isn't a " being " . The Universe doesn't care. It just is.

When you believe your thoughts about what you need to have, it costs

you the awareness of the richness you always have. Everyone is in his

own universe, his world, and this world is rich, it is full. Being

poor means not to like all the things in my universe.

> And yet recently spoke with Wayne Dyer (!) – so now I'm more

> confused than ever!

So? What has that to do with you? Or with YOUR truth? :-)

That's all you need to become confused? Two people talking? :-)

Love,

alexander

___________________________________________________________

Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

[Guest guest]

>

> > Why would you want to get there? My stance is: if you're not

happy with what you have, you won't be happy with what you get.

> New stuff sort of keeps you busy so you forget your problems for a

> short time. And it never lasts.

------ True

> How do you " cop-out " ?

> What is " being helpless " ?

------ I understand what you mean - I have to deal with whatever is

in front of me, even avoidance is a form of doing something... I just

wonder if I have superimposed, " my life sucks " onto " what's meant to

be will be. " This is something I have to look at. Again.

> And what would this " better life " look like? Don't become a seeker,

for you never reach your goal.

------- Too late. Ha, ha. This was information I needed at least 15

years ago. The good news is that I now know that being a seeker is

pointless - and until that thought is totally metabolized, I can

practice compassion.

> Be happy with what you have, explore your thoughts AND get your

> better life. And observe how you sometimes do things or don't do

> things that support the way you think you should go.

------ What would this get me, from your perspective? More material

for the Work?

The Universe isn't a " being " . The Universe doesn't care. It just

is. When you believe your thoughts about what you need to have, it

costs you the awareness of the richness you always have. Everyone is

in his own universe, his world, and this world is rich, it is full.

Being poor means not to like all the things in my universe.

------- Yes, I love this.

> > And yet recently spoke with Wayne Dyer (!) – so now I'm more

> > confused than ever!

> So? What has that to do with you? Or with YOUR truth? :-)

> That's all you need to become confused? Two people talking? :-)

------ I don't know what that has to do with my own truth - there's

just a thought, an implication of " what?? " and I probably don't know

enough about Wayne Dyer to even judge. Two people talking has

probably been THE greatest source of confusion, and I don't think I'm

too off base to say that people become Highly Confused over MUCH less.

> ___________________________________________________________

> Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC:

http://messenger.yahoo.de

>

[Guest guest]

Jim, you wrote: " Once you understand that you DO create your own

universe, the

> next step is to take responsibility for that instead of blaming

something or

> someone else for what you perceive to be not working. "

-------- This brings to mind something said about three kinds of

business. I remember at the School that she got to the point of saying,

" And even your business is God's business. " So I have to ask if the

concept of definitely creating your own universe is absolutely true?

I mean, if thoughts are like rain drops... if they just appear and are

not in fact created by the mind.... then even thoughts of limitation and

lack are not personal. They appear - and we either investigate or

believe them. For those who have not heard of the Work or NLP or any of

it, can it be said that they honestly are responsible for their life?

And even those of us who have heard of these things... what makes us

sometimes apply the principals and other times just veg out watching TV

hoping it will all go away? What is that intangible nudge that would

send us one way or the other? Does that nudge come from US? From a

personal self?

If it all comes from God - or to say it another way - if it all just IS

- then I guess whatever we do is ok. Could it be said that the idea of

responsibility is just a judgment on what is?

> >

> > >I have a partner who has been reading about that whole concept

> > of " create your reality " or co-creation, that is, how to change the

> > vibrations within so as to attract what you want.

> >

> > I have always had a problem with this way of thinking because in

part,

> > I just want to BE, not effort some wonderful ideal life. I don't

even

> > know what that ideal life would be. I have ideas (rich, healthy,

> > talented.) but no idea of how to get there.

> >

> > My stance has always been - what's meant to be will be.

> >

> > So is this a form of " learned helplessness " ? Is this some kind of

> > cop-out? <

> >

> > I share your viewpoint. I believe and have seen that we can bring

> wealth, a

> > better job, a " good " partner into our lives. The problem with that

> lies in

> > our belief that having all these things is what will finally bring

> us the

> > happiness we so badly seek. NO external event, situation or thing

> will ever

> > gives us anything but a fleeting moment of " happiness " . The joy is

> inside of

> > us. It only surfaces when we investigate our thoughts and beliefs

> and we can

> > do that no matter what our external circumstances.

> >

> > It is good to experiment with " changing your vibrations " , only to

> show you

> > how powerful your mind really is. But to do it with the expectation

> that you

> > will be happier than you are now once you have all those things, is

> to set

> > yourself up for further disappointment and diverting yourself from

> a way of

> > finding real and lasting joy.

> >

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

dear amma,

i haven't been following the discussion around your topic.

i have been thinking, what i can share or say to it.

it comes down to:

what was there first: the egg or the hen?

how about doing your own personal experiments with co-creating and

find out for yourself?

there are two clips on youtube about wayne dyer, perhaps you are

interested. ( i have heard of him from you yesterday the very first time)

love, rose

> I have a partner who has been reading about that whole concept

> of " create your reality " or co-creation, that is, how to change the

> vibrations within so as to attract what you want.

>

> I have always had a problem with this way of thinking because in

> part, I just want to BE, not effort some wonderful ideal life. I

> don't even know what that ideal life would be. I have ideas (rich,

> healthy, talented…) but no idea of how to get there.

>

> My stance has always been – what's meant to be will be.

>

> So is this a form of " learned helplessness " ? Is this some kind of

> cop-out?

>

> I love the Work (and Advaita) because it helps me be present.

> Still. Less judgmental, less focused on egoic agendas. It takes me

> beyond mind identification. Yet is it really some form of depression

> that would keep me from co-creating? Am I holding myself (and by

> extension, my family) back from a better life by not attempting

> to " change my vibrations " ? I recognize that I feel somewhat

> overwhelmed by life – I can see how I hide, evade… What that has

> told me is that I need to look at the feelings, identify underlying

> beliefs, and ask whether they are true… Or when the pain is too much,

> to sit in the feeling, drop the story, and let whatever is there

> burn…

>

> Does the Universe really operate in such a way that it is

> always " giving " ? But if your mind is not in perfect alignment, then

> what? Are you screwed? You're going to get crap because you are

> confused? That is exactly the reason I have stayed away from the co-

> create your reality paradigm. It seems shaming and warped.

>

> And yet recently spoke with Wayne Dyer (!) – so now I'm more

> confused than ever!

>