Re: Black Hole Tami

[Guest guest]

Dear Vivian,

Yes, it's your high standards on yourself I was talking about. Don't you

sometimes feel you don't meet up to it? Doesn't it cost you your peace to stay

with it (although I am convince you do it very willingly), sometimes?

When I see someone as bad, I consider: in what situation would I do what he is

doing? What would it take me to do that? What place could he be coming from?

What would it take me to commit an act of terrorism? How desperate would I

have to be? How much pain would I have to be in?

It's not about condoning the bad person. Nor any bad behaviour. It's about

finding in myself if there is something left. A fear I haven't met, a belief I

still hold sacred. Or to find what I used to feel sacred, if only to experience

the difference.

So, give yourself a break and be less-than perfect, sometimes. If you can, at

all.

And give a break to the victims, as well. Don't you think they are not strong

enough to handle it? Don't you think they have a weak spot?

Does it feel loving?

When I see a person in pain, I can feel sorry, or I can feel compassion. Which

feels better to you? To me compassion puts me into a position of being able to

help, and being able to not-help, if help is not wished. It puts me into a

position of curiosity, and I ask. And then I can respect whatever answer I get.

Love,

Vivian Barning schrieb:

,

Thanks for your response. I'm curious as to your last comment: Give yourself a

break once in awhile.

I've heard that before from perceptive people. And yet I see it as just trying

to be fair and evenhanded. Yes I hold myself to a high standard but why wouldn't

I? And I would hope others would do the same, both to me and to themselves.

Vivian

Re: Re: Black hole Tami

Dear Vivian,

> I will admit that there are times I feel superior and that is not in

> my best interests.

I'm glad you noticed.

> But other times I think only of the one who is being shamed by the

> Tamis of world.

How loving of you. Towards the person being shamed.

Do you know any?

And do you really care for them? What do you want to protect them

from? Why? What experience do you want to take away from them?

Who *are* these people you want to protect?

> Still other times I think: I'm so glad that I don't do that. It is

> cruel. And then I like myself quite a lot.

Yes, you are sooo wonderful!

Give yourself a break once in a while.

Love,

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Another thing just occured to me: who would you be, walking through hell, seeing

punishers and punished all around you, if you could not think the thought that

anyone needed your help?

You said you wouldn't enjoy it to see someone suffering or hurting.

What were a better aid to you, in the midst of suffering: someone who does

what you do, when you believe your thought(s) (when you see the person as a

victim in whatever context at all), or someone who appears as if nothing was

wrong, who was just present and confident in you? Confident that you were strong

enough to solve your problem yourself?

Love,

Vivian Barning schrieb:

,

Thanks for your response. I'm curious as to your last comment: Give yourself a

break once in awhile.

I've heard that before from perceptive people. And yet I see it as just trying

to be fair and evenhanded. Yes I hold myself to a high standard but why wouldn't

I? And I would hope others would do the same, both to me and to themselves.

Vivian

Re: Re: Black hole Tami

Dear Vivian,

> I will admit that there are times I feel superior and that is not in

> my best interests.

I'm glad you noticed.

> But other times I think only of the one who is being shamed by the

> Tamis of world.

How loving of you. Towards the person being shamed.

Do you know any?

And do you really care for them? What do you want to protect them

from? Why? What experience do you want to take away from them?

Who *are* these people you want to protect?

> Still other times I think: I'm so glad that I don't do that. It is

> cruel. And then I like myself quite a lot.

Yes, you are sooo wonderful!

Give yourself a break once in a while.

Love,

__________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

>or someone who appears as if nothing was wrong, who was just present

and confident in you? Confident that you were strong enough to solve

your problem yourself?

those were my thoughts..But recently some friends said that this

Confidence means " i don't want to do it for you, i don't care " ..People

believe it because it flatters them...

>

> Another thing just occured to me: who would you be, walking through

hell, seeing punishers and punished all around you, if you could not

think the thought that anyone needed your help?

>

> You said you wouldn't enjoy it to see someone suffering or hurting.

>

> What were a better aid to you, in the midst of suffering: someone

who does what you do, when you believe your thought(s) (when you see

the person as a victim in whatever context at all), or someone who

appears as if nothing was wrong, who was just present and confident in

you? Confident that you were strong enough to solve your problem yourself?

>

> Love,

>

>

>

> Vivian Barning schrieb:

> ,

>

> Thanks for your response. I'm curious as to your last comment: Give

yourself a break once in awhile.

>

> I've heard that before from perceptive people. And yet I see it as

just trying to be fair and evenhanded. Yes I hold myself to a high

standard but why wouldn't I? And I would hope others would do the

same, both to me and to themselves.

>

> Vivian

> Re: Re: Black hole Tami

>

>

> Dear Vivian,

>

> > I will admit that there are times I feel superior and that is not in

> > my best interests.

> I'm glad you noticed.

>

> > But other times I think only of the one who is being shamed by the

> > Tamis of world.

> How loving of you. Towards the person being shamed.

>

> Do you know any?

>

> And do you really care for them? What do you want to protect them

> from? Why? What experience do you want to take away from them?

>

> Who *are* these people you want to protect?

>

> > Still other times I think: I'm so glad that I don't do that. It is

> > cruel. And then I like myself quite a lot.

> Yes, you are sooo wonderful!

>

> Give yourself a break once in a while.

>

> Love,

>

>

>

> __________________________________________________________

> Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ,

When my grown son complains about his co-workers I tell him, " That is the edge

you have over them. Be glad that you are smarter (or more efficient, more

honest, more hard working, more whatever) than they are. "

I taught him to take responsibility for his own actions. Yes, we can be harsh,

both with ourselves and others. But that is a choice we willingly make. In

business someone once told me that other people hold me to a higher standard

than they held most others in our industry.

I had no issue with that. I want to be held to a high standard both by myself

and others.

Yes, it has a downside in that I may not be as patient or as kind with others as

I would like. But all in all I'm pretty satisfied with how I have turned out.

Regards,

Vivian

Re: Re: Black hole Tami

Dear Vivian,

> I will admit that there are times I feel superior and that is not in

> my best interests.

I'm glad you noticed.

> But other times I think only of the one who is being shamed by the

> Tamis of world.

How loving of you. Towards the person being shamed.

Do you know any?

And do you really care for them? What do you want to protect them

from? Why? What experience do you want to take away from them?

Who *are* these people you want to protect?

> Still other times I think: I'm so glad that I don't do that. It is

> cruel. And then I like myself quite a lot.

Yes, you are sooo wonderful!

Give yourself a break once in a while.

Love,

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

Dear Hypegia,

> I have no truly logical reason not to succumb to

> your demands should you choose to make them. If I allowed you to, you

> would joyfully drain my money, my possessions, my ambitions, my time,

> my friends and family, all of it, and still demand me to love you

> unconditionally and I would not be able to reason against it.

actually, it wouldn't be her that cost you all your posessions, it

would be you.

You seem to think that you have to reason? (actually, you seem not

to, because of that cork, but why blame Tami for you giving away

everything?)

Would you want to be " spiritual " , even if what you had to do didn't

come from your heart?

I don't think so. Unfortunately could interpret that as selfish and

provoking behaviour.

I don't see any hyppocrisis in that.

Love,

Am 07.02.2007 um 22:04 schrieb hypegia:

> Black Hole Tami

>

> [i am writing this knowing I don't know Tami at all. But seeing her

> behavior definitely impressed me into writing this.]

>

> I see you as a black hole among people, Tami. I don't say this with

> animosity or hatred. That's how I perceive your nature to be and I

> will avoid you as I would avoid a black hole, a tornado, or a Mack

> truck careening in my direction. None of those things I could

> challenge head on, just as I cannot challenge you. You would, I see,

> have the power to suck and slurp every bit of falsity and hypocrisy I

> have and vacuum me up into yourself. I acknowledge that and I choose

> to avoid some of it if only for the fact that I do like my life, be it

> a false story or not. Just as I have no truly logical reason not to

> drink lethal poison, I have no truly logical reason not to succumb to

> your demands should you choose to make them. If I allowed you to, you

> would joyfully drain my money, my possessions, my ambitions, my time,

> my friends and family, all of it, and still demand me to love you

> unconditionally and I would not be able to reason against it. So, I

> keep a story, and that story puts a cork in you. Death is the eventual

> black hole of us all. I'll joyfully choose to let that completely take

> me instead of you.

>

> *****

>

> I think this is why her provoking behavior irritated me. I knew there

> was no way around it and be completely story free. Impossible. I

> intuitively understood where the course of her challenges led – even

> if she chose not to take them that far – because I didn't want it out

> of her, specifically. Now I know. All stories challenged lead to

> self/ego-annihilation if taken to their completion. She has taught me

> that I don't HAVE to take her course just because she is setting up

> the bait. Doing the work can lead us there whichever path we choose. I

> call her a black hole because she is doing the challenging, the

> intentional flushing out of people's insecurities that people can get

> sucked into if allowed. I think it's awesome I came to this

> realization at all. Because EVERYTHING is a black hole. EVERYTHING can

> challenge our concepts and beliefs. She just happens to do it quite

> willingly and joyfully. It's as if she gladly tries to push people

> over the edge. She can't, but she definitely could if they allowed her

> to do so. Now here's the beauty of life: choice. If I decide to do

> this complete self/ego-annihilation, I choose where and how it is done

> (unless death chooses it first). I'm not speaking of suicide, I'm

> speaking of annihilating all the stories of my mind. Tami will not be

> that for me because I at least have that choice, that preference. I

> can keep my story to avoid her until I find an undoing more suitable

> for me, if ever. Until then, I can enjoy her banter, to look death in

> the face and laugh. I'll eventually get there anyways – at my pace or

> until death of the body takes over.

>

> In other words, I can be as hypocritical and false as I want to be and

> choose to do the work for the benefits *I* desire. This doesn't

> undermine the work, if anything it empowers us to with it as we

> please, not as I used to think it should be used for: to be completely

> story free. So anyone can challenge me. They can tell me I'm

> hypocritical, I'm selfish, I'm this that and the other. Perfect! I am,

> until I am not. And I love me completely for it.

>

> Thank you, Tami, girl. Love you.

___________________________________________________________

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[Guest guest]

Dear hypegia,

actually, I see Tami as innocent, because it is quite more stress-

free than it is to believe she isn't.

Sometimes it doesn't work on some people: I can't see everyone as

innocent, yet. ;-)

Love,

PS: thank you for sharing your experiences.

Am 10.02.2007 um 19:01 schrieb hypegia:

>

>>>

>> I agree with most of what you said. And personally, I dont believe

>> the thought that Tami or anyone else on the planet should behave in a

>> way that is acceptable to me ~ that is not what was said. I am still

>> able to notice the behaviour of other's and I notice behaviour at

>> times that does not seem kind or clear to me. In myself, and others.

>> As says, anyone who would harm another is very confused.

>

> If I see anyone is harming someone, it is *me* doing the harming

> because it is my belief that harm is being done. I would become

> agitated and enraged and wanting to lash out and do some harm to the

> one I believe is doing the harming. I turn into someone harmful. I

> would be very confused, yes.

>

>> Are you attached to the thought that we should all see Tami as you

>> do?

>

> Yes. Actually. I am attached to that thought we should all see Tami as

> I see her. That's why I reply. I see someone as being blind towards

> the benefits that Tami provides. It is my belief that someone is being

> blind. I then become blind to the entitlement that person has to be

> blind towards Tami's graceful nature. I am very confused.

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