Guest guest Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 > > > Are you saying that has better credibility than Tami, is that > your point? > > My personal point boils down to this: Both and Tami have the > same story in my eyes, equal credibility to move the work. > doesn't have a 'better grasp on reality' than Tami. I completely > understand if that's your story, because that was mine before, too. > My 2 cents This is a wonderful example of level confusion. Yes, from the perspective of God, Tami and have equal credibility. However, from where we are in the dream has a far better grasp on reality than Tami. The fact that discovered the Work, has written several books about it and conducts schools to teach it, would seem to indicate to me that her grasp on reality is fairly good. Can the same be said of Tami? No, I don't think so. In the dream there seems to me to be different levels of sleepiness. Most normal people are quite asleep. A few who study spiritual texts may be slowly awakening. Then there are the very few like or Jesus who have fully awakened, and now appear in the dream to help us awaken. The distinction between and Tami does not exist in ultimate reality, but in the dream there are levels of awakening which cannot be discounted. is very much " awake " in the dream as evidenced by her speech and conduct, Tami on the other hand seems to be quite asleep given her current speech and behaviour. Sure she may have moments of clarity as do we all, but overall she is mostly asleep! Have a beautiful day " So, I say, question what you believe and love where you're at. There's nothing to fear but what we believe. " Byron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 My ego is saying this has turned into quite an excellent topic. Lots more depth and insights to it than I could have imagined. Thanks for your input. Very valuable. Vivian Re: Black Hole Tami > > > Are you saying that has better credibility than Tami, is that > your point? > > My personal point boils down to this: Both and Tami have the > same story in my eyes, equal credibility to move the work. > doesn't have a 'better grasp on reality' than Tami. I completely > understand if that's your story, because that was mine before, too. > My 2 cents This is a wonderful example of level confusion. Yes, from the perspective of God, Tami and have equal credibility. However, from where we are in the dream has a far better grasp on reality than Tami. The fact that discovered the Work, has written several books about it and conducts schools to teach it, would seem to indicate to me that her grasp on reality is fairly good. Can the same be said of Tami? No, I don't think so. In the dream there seems to me to be different levels of sleepiness. Most normal people are quite asleep. A few who study spiritual texts may be slowly awakening. Then there are the very few like or Jesus who have fully awakened, and now appear in the dream to help us awaken. The distinction between and Tami does not exist in ultimate reality, but in the dream there are levels of awakening which cannot be discounted. is very much " awake " in the dream as evidenced by her speech and conduct, Tami on the other hand seems to be quite asleep given her current speech and behaviour. Sure she may have moments of clarity as do we all, but overall she is mostly asleep! Have a beautiful day " So, I say, question what you believe and love where you're at. There's nothing to fear but what we believe. " Byron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 11, 2007 Report Share Posted February 11, 2007 tami.. i will join your fan club.. but i know you would prefer lovethework. oh well.. take what you can get, me. love, roslyn > > > > > > > > > In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on > reality > > quite good! > > > > Really? All of the people I've encountered who seem to have a good > grasp on reality, as you put it, don't seem to spend their time > intentionally attempting to provoke anyone else. They seem to care > very deeply about other's (even though they may realise it is not their > actions that cause's another harm, or that ultimately all is well), > they are deeply compassionate, they serve with the intention of > kindness. You may be amused by Tami, or not bothered by her in the > least...a good grasp on reality though? She does indeed occassionally > have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have within, > and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from it. > However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time > intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves, > suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to > manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a manner > as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality... > > Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good grasp > and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple. > > Yes, amazing how different our stories can be. > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Hey love Don't push me, the rope became a snake again You are so arogant! Ok, I cannot change you This thought of you brings me stress Love is arogant Can I know that for sure? NO, maybe he is just caught up in his point of view And since he cannot see things in all colours only in back or white He wants me to be happy according to his limited point of view So he is just being mind narrow Which it is a story too, but not stressful so I will keep it And he is such a loving and caring person to Write back to me and share with me his point of view Love / rope I love you again No one can take you away from me T -- Re: Black Hole Tami > > As long as there are those of us willing to be bridges, then I don't > see a reason to remove someone such as Tami. She, on this board, can > be the perfect exercise to practice the work for many instead of > just discussing it. > Hi Hypegia, As mentioned we are not trying to have Tami removed, she is perfect even in her confusion. I respond to her posts here, primarily to correct her misinterpretations and misapplications of the Work. From reading her posts it would seem that the Work can be used to justify adultery, rudeness, crudeness, vulgarity and the list goes on. She offends and distresses others, then defends her actions by saying that they need to question their own thinking. Or she may revert to the ultimate defence by asking others to stay in their own business. Nice little twist because that gives her free reign to go on offending and upsetting others. She never seems to stop to realize that if love has the slightest hint that it has hurt or offended anyone it stops immediately, even though it is well aware that the only thing that can really hurt another is their story. I have no problem with Tami being Tami, she is caught in her stories as we all are. She only evokes a response from me when she tries to justify being Tami by misinterpreting and misapplying the insights gained from the Work. The Work does indeed lead to total freedom in our thoughts, but that does not translate to total freedom in the world. Have a beautiful day " Love is what you are already. Love doesn't seek anything. It's already complete. It doesn't want, doesn't need, has no shoulds. It already has everything it wants, it already is everything it wants, just the way it wants it. So when I hear people say that they love someone and want to be loved in return, I know they're not talking about love. They're talking about something else. " Byron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Hello! Now I am 2 cents richer. I can see your points. Initially, when someone is starting the work, a person like can get through the dream and facilitate a person possibly more effectively than someone like Tami. does not have her own negative stories to contend with while helping someone through theirs. Gotcha. I started contemplating this concept of levels of awakening, also. Babies to the work do need a gentler hand or else they can be scared straight back into their dream (hence the sturdier structure of B.K.'s school to stay on task for everybody's sake). However, those of us who raise children know that many times just the calm presence of the parent in a stressful situation shows the child that there is nothing to fear. Our calmness (and joy) in the presence of those like Tami who evoke outrage in others can show those people that there is nothing to to be outraged about. Maybe they don't get it in the present moment and wish to discuss their displeasure, but I can attempt to be as the 'bridge' from their displeasure towards their joy in regards to her. As long as there are those of us willing to be bridges, then I don't see a reason to remove someone such as Tami. She, on this board, can be the perfect exercise to practice the work for many instead of just discussing it. Crap. Now that I'm thinking about using a gentler hand and assisting others through their struggles, I realize that I may have been too abrasive yesterday towards someone in my life. Wish I could redo that. Oh well, chalk it up to experience. I will 'redo' it as a new opportunity arises. xoxo > > > > > > Are you saying that has better credibility than Tami, is that > > your point? > > > > My personal point boils down to this: Both and Tami have the > > same story in my eyes, equal credibility to move the work. > > doesn't have a 'better grasp on reality' than Tami. I completely > > understand if that's your story, because that was mine before, too. > > > > My 2 cents > > This is a wonderful example of level confusion. Yes, from the > perspective of God, Tami and have equal credibility. > > However, from where we are in the dream has a far better grasp > on reality than Tami. The fact that discovered the Work, has > written several books about it and conducts schools to teach it, > would seem to indicate to me that her grasp on reality is fairly > good. Can the same be said of Tami? No, I don't think so. In the > dream there seems to me to be different levels of sleepiness. Most > normal people are quite asleep. A few who study spiritual texts may > be slowly awakening. Then there are the very few like or Jesus > who have fully awakened, and now appear in the dream to help us > awaken. > > The distinction between and Tami does not exist in ultimate > reality, but in the dream there are levels of awakening which cannot > be discounted. is very much " awake " in the dream as evidenced > by her speech and conduct, Tami on the other hand seems to be quite > asleep given her current speech and behaviour. Sure she may have > moments of clarity as do we all, but overall she is mostly asleep! > > Have a beautiful day > > > " So, I say, question what you believe and love where you're at. > There's nothing to fear but what we believe. " Byron > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 > > " She does indeed occassionally > have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have within, > and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from it. > However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time > intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves, > suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to > manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a manner > as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality... > Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good grasp > and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple. " > > Are you saying that has better credibility than Tami, is that > your point? ***Absolutely not. That would be you. I am simply noticing that I see a difference btwn the behaviour of and Tami. I am not saying that one is better, or higher, or more credible. I was simply expressing my story that is an example to me of someone who has a good grasp on reality...and Tami is not. I see a difference in the way that they respond to people, I do not see a difference in their value in the large scheme of things. Tami is as much God as ...I just see as awake, compassionate, and 'undone'. And, I make reference to since this group uses LWI and the work as a basis for its origins and discussions. > > My personal point boils down to this: Both and Tami have the > same story in my eyes, equal credibility to move the work. > doesn't have a 'better grasp on reality' than Tami. I completely > understand if that's your story, because that was mine before, too. ***This is interesting. I really have no idea about anyone else's 'grasp on reality'. I only tell the story of what I am drawn to. And yes, ultimately, it is all here to 'wake me up' and Tami's behaviour may prompt that as much as 's. > > Yes, they are both perfect: perfectly the same. They are both > perfectly me and my interpretation of reality. If one doesn't have a > 'better grasp on reality' then that means through that individual that > I'm the one that doesn't have the better grasp on reality to see them > with clarity, and I would 'disregards their feelings, spend my time > intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse myself, > suffers from bouts of depression, be occupied by the attempt to > manipulate and need to express sensitive topics in as juvenile a > manner as I could.' Just because I might restrain my actions better > than Tami doesn't mean I restrain the desire to do those things to > someone I don't have a great grasp of reality on. **Okay. I can't follow your meaning on what you have written above. > > I think I should start a group on you, because that zinger up there > makes feel out of grasp with reality. > > Bahaha. **Again, I don't understand the above statement. I dont have the belief that Tami is 'less' than , and sometimes I feel that this is misunderstood. Occassionally, I express my views concerning some of Tami's posts, and I find it amusing how strong the reactions often are to those views. I love it that Tami is here, and I loved it when she wasnt. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 > > > > > > > > > Are you saying that has better credibility than Tami, is that > > > your point? > > > > > > My personal point boils down to this: Both and Tami have the > > > same story in my eyes, equal credibility to move the work. > > > doesn't have a 'better grasp on reality' than Tami. I completely > > > understand if that's your story, because that was mine before, too. > > > > > > > My 2 cents > > > > This is a wonderful example of level confusion. Yes, from the > > perspective of God, Tami and have equal credibility. > > > > However, from where we are in the dream has a far better grasp > > on reality than Tami. The fact that discovered the Work, has > > written several books about it and conducts schools to teach it, > > would seem to indicate to me that her grasp on reality is fairly > > good. Can the same be said of Tami? No, I don't think so. In the > > dream there seems to me to be different levels of sleepiness. Most > > normal people are quite asleep. A few who study spiritual texts may > > be slowly awakening. Then there are the very few like or Jesus > > who have fully awakened, and now appear in the dream to help us > > awaken. > > > > The distinction between and Tami does not exist in ultimate > > reality, but in the dream there are levels of awakening which cannot > > be discounted. is very much " awake " in the dream as evidenced > > by her speech and conduct, Tami on the other hand seems to be quite > > asleep given her current speech and behaviour. Sure she may have > > moments of clarity as do we all, but overall she is mostly asleep! > > > > Have a beautiful day > > > > > > " So, I say, question what you believe and love where you're at. > > There's nothing to fear but what we believe. " Byron > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 > > As long as there are those of us willing to be bridges, then I don't > see a reason to remove someone such as Tami. She, on this board, can > be the perfect exercise to practice the work for many instead of > just discussing it. > Hi Hypegia, As mentioned we are not trying to have Tami removed, she is perfect even in her confusion. I respond to her posts here, primarily to correct her misinterpretations and misapplications of the Work. From reading her posts it would seem that the Work can be used to justify adultery, rudeness, crudeness, vulgarity and the list goes on. She offends and distresses others, then defends her actions by saying that they need to question their own thinking. Or she may revert to the ultimate defence by asking others to stay in their own business. Nice little twist because that gives her free reign to go on offending and upsetting others. She never seems to stop to realize that if love has the slightest hint that it has hurt or offended anyone it stops immediately, even though it is well aware that the only thing that can really hurt another is their story. I have no problem with Tami being Tami, she is caught in her stories as we all are. She only evokes a response from me when she tries to justify being Tami by misinterpreting and misapplying the insights gained from the Work. The Work does indeed lead to total freedom in our thoughts, but that does not translate to total freedom in the world. Have a beautiful day " Love is what you are already. Love doesn't seek anything. It's already complete. It doesn't want, doesn't need, has no shoulds. It already has everything it wants, it already is everything it wants, just the way it wants it. So when I hear people say that they love someone and want to be loved in return, I know they're not talking about love. They're talking about something else. " Byron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 12, 2007 Report Share Posted February 12, 2007 Hypegia's most recent email and yours both reinforce the notion that being intentionally cruel is not acceptable ever. And to hide behind " That isn't your business " makes it even more arrogant and egotistical. I have the right to say whatever I want. But if my words bring distress to another, why would I ever want to utter them? Vivian Re: Black Hole Tami > > As long as there are those of us willing to be bridges, then I don't > see a reason to remove someone such as Tami. She, on this board, can > be the perfect exercise to practice the work for many instead of > just discussing it. > Hi Hypegia, As mentioned we are not trying to have Tami removed, she is perfect even in her confusion. I respond to her posts here, primarily to correct her misinterpretations and misapplications of the Work. From reading her posts it would seem that the Work can be used to justify adultery, rudeness, crudeness, vulgarity and the list goes on. She offends and distresses others, then defends her actions by saying that they need to question their own thinking. Or she may revert to the ultimate defence by asking others to stay in their own business. Nice little twist because that gives her free reign to go on offending and upsetting others. She never seems to stop to realize that if love has the slightest hint that it has hurt or offended anyone it stops immediately, even though it is well aware that the only thing that can really hurt another is their story. I have no problem with Tami being Tami, she is caught in her stories as we all are. She only evokes a response from me when she tries to justify being Tami by misinterpreting and misapplying the insights gained from the Work. The Work does indeed lead to total freedom in our thoughts, but that does not translate to total freedom in the world. Have a beautiful day " Love is what you are already. Love doesn't seek anything. It's already complete. It doesn't want, doesn't need, has no shoulds. It already has everything it wants, it already is everything it wants, just the way it wants it. So when I hear people say that they love someone and want to be loved in return, I know they're not talking about love. They're talking about something else. " Byron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 13, 2007 Report Share Posted February 13, 2007 Hypegia You are such a sweet person I know I know the turn around Tell me something I don't know ;-) T -- Re: Black hole Tami > > What is the phone number of your cykayetris? > > I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy > work with you > > That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter productive. > > Vivian LOL. Now, if she wrote that to me, I would just think it's funny that she spelled psychiatrist so horribly wrong. Hahaha. :-D If I *believed* it was hurtful and counter productive, then I would feel the same as you. I just see it as Tami being Tami. She can't hurt nor offend me. Let's see if I can break this down: Tami sees how someone can react to her behavior. She doesn't control their reactions. She has no power to do so. She IS, however, manipulating their beliefs into an illusion as a magician manipulates his audience's perception. It LOOKS like he cut that woman in half, but it's false. Tami LOOKS like she's being offensive, but it's false. Tami cannot do that to me. Why? Because she just CAN'T. I have no belief for her to manipulate. She's actually been very kind towards me and I enjoy her. I see that you are distressed by her antics. But I see that you are the one responsible for your own distress. Would you like me to facilitate the stress you feel around this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 > Buddhists say that desire IS suffering. That's always plunked around > in my head as false, and now I know why. You can desire things, but > you can also be completely content with not having those things at the > same time. I guess I see it from this angle: joy wants and welcomes > more joy, but joy itself is enough. > > Thanks for the banter, . Hi , I'm looking at the whole 'wanting' thing, and am confused. It does seem like if I was just loving what the moment held, why would want be present? Can I want and be satisfied in the same moment? I find when I catch myself wanting, and do a body check, there isn't a complete open-ness/relaxation. It's almost like a part of me is saying 'no' and the body is holding that resistance. If I go into a restaurant and look at a menu, though, I do find myself choosing something over other options. So am I wanting then? I want....the chicken salad, w/ ranch dressing. Do I? When I really investigate it, it doesn't seem like I'm wanting it, I'm choosing it. I can ask do the turnaround, 'I don't want a chicken salad' and it feels true or truer. How would I reword that putting thinking into the sentence? Boy, I don't know where I'm going with all this. I do find myself drawn to the discussion topic of wanting/desire/choosing. If anyone is familiar with 's take on it, or want to share theirs, I WANT to hear it. lol I do want to hear it, but I don't feel stress with that thought. Maybe that means I'll love it if I get a response, and I'll love it if I don't. and round and round she goes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 What is the phone number of your cykayetris? > I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy work with you That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter productive. Vivian Re: Reality? > > What is Reality? > > Tree doesn't eat its own fruits! > > Sun doesn't need its own light! > > A (wo)man dies and leaves whatever > (s)he creates - behind! But, in trying > to make everything " for me " and " about > me " while (s)he is alive - (s)he goes > against the 'flow of life' which > creates a blockage andlot of unnecessary pain! > > What is spiritual living? > > Living with the knowledge that I don't > live for 'self'! > > What is Bhakti? > > Serving Life! > > What is service? > > Serving Life! > > What is Dharma? > > Serving Life! > > How do you live when you don't live spiritually? > > You serve Life - but, you serve it with the " illusion " that it is > about " me " ! > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 > > What is the phone number of your cykayetris? > > I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy > work with you > > That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter productive. > > Vivian LOL. Now, if she wrote that to me, I would just think it's funny that she spelled psychiatrist so horribly wrong. Hahaha. :-D If I *believed* it was hurtful and counter productive, then I would feel the same as you. I just see it as Tami being Tami. She can't hurt nor offend me. Let's see if I can break this down: Tami sees how someone can react to her behavior. She doesn't control their reactions. She has no power to do so. She IS, however, manipulating their beliefs into an illusion as a magician manipulates his audience's perception. It LOOKS like he cut that woman in half, but it's false. Tami LOOKS like she's being offensive, but it's false. Tami cannot do that to me. Why? Because she just CAN'T. I have no belief for her to manipulate. She's actually been very kind towards me and I enjoy her. I see that you are distressed by her antics. But I see that you are the one responsible for your own distress. Would you like me to facilitate the stress you feel around this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 14, 2007 Report Share Posted February 14, 2007 There is no question that we are responsible for our own distress and are the causers of it. We choose how to react. What one will cry at another will laugh and move on. However, if I see my actions or words cause another distress, even if I'm not responsible for that person's reaction, it is still appropriate for me to pull back and not do that action again. That is kindness. Continuing on a course that causes distress in others is to intentionally provoke reactions. And that is Tami. Vivian Re: Black hole Tami > > What is the phone number of your cykayetris? > > I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy > work with you > > That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter productive. > > Vivian LOL. Now, if she wrote that to me, I would just think it's funny that she spelled psychiatrist so horribly wrong. Hahaha. :-D If I *believed* it was hurtful and counter productive, then I would feel the same as you. I just see it as Tami being Tami. She can't hurt nor offend me. Let's see if I can break this down: Tami sees how someone can react to her behavior. She doesn't control their reactions. She has no power to do so. She IS, however, manipulating their beliefs into an illusion as a magician manipulates his audience's perception. It LOOKS like he cut that woman in half, but it's false. Tami LOOKS like she's being offensive, but it's false. Tami cannot do that to me. Why? Because she just CAN'T. I have no belief for her to manipulate. She's actually been very kind towards me and I enjoy her. I see that you are distressed by her antics. But I see that you are the one responsible for your own distress. Would you like me to facilitate the stress you feel around this? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 shame on me! and without the story that I am " hurtful " who would you be vivian? just close your eyes, maybe touch your pussy a little and tell me, what do you see? You are welcome! I am glad I could help you, that is just the kind of person that I am- kind, and HOT (see my profile) T > What is the phone number of your cykayetris? > > I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy > work with you > > That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter productive. > > Vivian > > > Re: Reality? > > > > What is Reality? > > > > Tree doesn't eat its own fruits! > > > > Sun doesn't need its own light! > > > > A (wo)man dies and leaves whatever > > (s)he creates - behind! But, in trying > > to make everything " for me " and " about > > me " while (s)he is alive - (s)he goes > > against the 'flow of life' which > > creates a blockage andlot of unnecessary pain! > > > > What is spiritual living? > > > > Living with the knowledge that I don't > > live for 'self'! > > > > What is Bhakti? > > > > Serving Life! > > > > What is service? > > > > Serving Life! > > > > What is Dharma? > > > > Serving Life! > > > > How do you live when you don't live spiritually? > > > > You serve Life - but, you serve it with the " illusion " that it is > > about " me " ! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 16, 2007 Report Share Posted February 16, 2007 Defending would be the right answer here Or Teaching (for confusion) T (just " observing " -- Re: Re: Black hole Tami I'm simply observing. Vivian Re: Re: Black hole Tami > Dear Vivian, > > Are you defending or teaching? > > And it may be neither. > > But she is saying that to me. > > Love, > > > PS: I'd think she spelled it that way either on purpose, or because > she didn't care to look it up. We have a name for that, here: it's > Tami. Don't we love names? :-) Oh, and it's not anyones job to be > kind. We are too busy being rude, offending and counterproductive. We > have no time for kindness. You do it. > > Am 14.02.2007 um 22:57 schrieb Vivian Barning: > >> There is no question that we are responsible for our own distress >> and are the causers of it. We choose how to react. What one will >> cry at another will laugh and move on. >> >> However, if I see my actions or words cause another distress, even >> if I'm not responsible for that person's reaction, it is still >> appropriate for me to pull back and not do that action again. That >> is kindness. >> >> Continuing on a course that causes distress in others is to >> intentionally provoke reactions. >> >> And that is Tami. >> >> Vivian >> >>>>> What is the phone number of your cykayetris? >>>>> I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy >>>>> work with you >>>> >>>> That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe >>>> has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter >>>> productive. >>>> >>>> Vivian >>> >>> LOL. Now, if she wrote that to me, I would just think it's funny >>> that >>> she spelled psychiatrist so horribly wrong. Hahaha. :-D >>> >>> If I *believed* it was hurtful and counter productive, then I would >>> feel the same as you. I just see it as Tami being Tami. She >>> can't hurt >>> nor offend me. >>> >>> Let's see if I can break this down: >>> >>> Tami sees how someone can react to her behavior. She doesn't >>> control >>> their reactions. She has no power to do so. She IS, however, >>> manipulating their beliefs into an illusion as a magician >>> manipulates >>> his audience's perception. It LOOKS like he cut that woman in half, >>> but it's false. Tami LOOKS like she's being offensive, but it's >>> false. >>> >>> Tami cannot do that to me. Why? Because she just CAN'T. I have no >>> belief for her to manipulate. She's actually been very kind >>> towards me >>> and I enjoy her. >>> >>> I see that you are distressed by her antics. But I see that you are >>> the one responsible for your own distress. Would you like me to >>> facilitate the stress you feel around this? >> > > > > > > __________________________________________________________ > Der fr?he Vogel f?ngt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: > http://mail.yahoo.de > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Dear Vivian, Are you defending or teaching? And it may be neither. But she is saying that to me. Love, PS: I'd think she spelled it that way either on purpose, or because she didn't care to look it up. We have a name for that, here: it's Tami. Don't we love names? :-) Oh, and it's not anyones job to be kind. We are too busy being rude, offending and counterproductive. We have no time for kindness. You do it. Am 14.02.2007 um 22:57 schrieb Vivian Barning: > There is no question that we are responsible for our own distress > and are the causers of it. We choose how to react. What one will > cry at another will laugh and move on. > > However, if I see my actions or words cause another distress, even > if I'm not responsible for that person's reaction, it is still > appropriate for me to pull back and not do that action again. That > is kindness. > > Continuing on a course that causes distress in others is to > intentionally provoke reactions. > > And that is Tami. > > Vivian > >>>> What is the phone number of your cykayetris? >>>> I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy >>>> work with you >>> >>> That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe >>> has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter >>> productive. >>> >>> Vivian >> >> LOL. Now, if she wrote that to me, I would just think it's funny >> that >> she spelled psychiatrist so horribly wrong. Hahaha. :-D >> >> If I *believed* it was hurtful and counter productive, then I would >> feel the same as you. I just see it as Tami being Tami. She >> can't hurt >> nor offend me. >> >> Let's see if I can break this down: >> >> Tami sees how someone can react to her behavior. She doesn't >> control >> their reactions. She has no power to do so. She IS, however, >> manipulating their beliefs into an illusion as a magician >> manipulates >> his audience's perception. It LOOKS like he cut that woman in half, >> but it's false. Tami LOOKS like she's being offensive, but it's >> false. >> >> Tami cannot do that to me. Why? Because she just CAN'T. I have no >> belief for her to manipulate. She's actually been very kind >> towards me >> and I enjoy her. >> >> I see that you are distressed by her antics. But I see that you are >> the one responsible for your own distress. Would you like me to >> facilitate the stress you feel around this? > ___________________________________________________________ Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: http://mail.yahoo.de Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 I'm simply observing. Vivian Re: Re: Black hole Tami > Dear Vivian, > > Are you defending or teaching? > > And it may be neither. > > But she is saying that to me. > > Love, > > > PS: I'd think she spelled it that way either on purpose, or because > she didn't care to look it up. We have a name for that, here: it's > Tami. Don't we love names? :-) Oh, and it's not anyones job to be > kind. We are too busy being rude, offending and counterproductive. We > have no time for kindness. You do it. > > Am 14.02.2007 um 22:57 schrieb Vivian Barning: > >> There is no question that we are responsible for our own distress >> and are the causers of it. We choose how to react. What one will >> cry at another will laugh and move on. >> >> However, if I see my actions or words cause another distress, even >> if I'm not responsible for that person's reaction, it is still >> appropriate for me to pull back and not do that action again. That >> is kindness. >> >> Continuing on a course that causes distress in others is to >> intentionally provoke reactions. >> >> And that is Tami. >> >> Vivian >> >>>>> What is the phone number of your cykayetris? >>>>> I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy >>>>> work with you >>>> >>>> That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe >>>> has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter >>>> productive. >>>> >>>> Vivian >>> >>> LOL. Now, if she wrote that to me, I would just think it's funny >>> that >>> she spelled psychiatrist so horribly wrong. Hahaha. :-D >>> >>> If I *believed* it was hurtful and counter productive, then I would >>> feel the same as you. I just see it as Tami being Tami. She >>> can't hurt >>> nor offend me. >>> >>> Let's see if I can break this down: >>> >>> Tami sees how someone can react to her behavior. She doesn't >>> control >>> their reactions. She has no power to do so. She IS, however, >>> manipulating their beliefs into an illusion as a magician >>> manipulates >>> his audience's perception. It LOOKS like he cut that woman in half, >>> but it's false. Tami LOOKS like she's being offensive, but it's >>> false. >>> >>> Tami cannot do that to me. Why? Because she just CAN'T. I have no >>> belief for her to manipulate. She's actually been very kind >>> towards me >>> and I enjoy her. >>> >>> I see that you are distressed by her antics. But I see that you are >>> the one responsible for your own distress. Would you like me to >>> facilitate the stress you feel around this? >> > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Der frühe Vogel fängt den Wurm. Hier gelangen Sie zum neuen Yahoo! Mail: > http://mail.yahoo.de > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 And aren't you sharing, as well? That what you are observing, is it inside or outside? Love, Vivian Barning schrieb: I'm simply observing. Vivian Re: Re: Black hole Tami > Dear Vivian, > > Are you defending or teaching? > > And it may be neither. > > But she is saying that to me. > > Love, > > > PS: I'd think she spelled it that way either on purpose, or because > she didn't care to look it up. We have a name for that, here: it's > Tami. Don't we love names? :-) Oh, and it's not anyones job to be > kind. We are too busy being rude, offending and counterproductive. We > have no time for kindness. You do it. > > Am 14.02.2007 um 22:57 schrieb Vivian Barning: > >> There is no question that we are responsible for our own distress >> and are the causers of it. We choose how to react. What one will >> cry at another will laugh and move on. >> >> However, if I see my actions or words cause another distress, even >> if I'm not responsible for that person's reaction, it is still >> appropriate for me to pull back and not do that action again. That >> is kindness. >> >> Continuing on a course that causes distress in others is to >> intentionally provoke reactions. >> >> And that is Tami. >> >> Vivian >> >>>>> What is the phone number of your cykayetris? >>>>> I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy >>>>> work with you >>>> >>>> That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe >>>> has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter >>>> productive. >>>> >>>> Vivian >>> >>> LOL. Now, if she wrote that to me, I would just think it's funny >>> that >>> she spelled psychiatrist so horribly wrong. Hahaha. :-D >>> >>> If I *believed* it was hurtful and counter productive, then I would >>> feel the same as you. I just see it as Tami being Tami. She >>> can't hurt >>> nor offend me. >>> >>> Let's see if I can break this down: >>> >>> Tami sees how someone can react to her behavior. She doesn't >>> control >>> their reactions. She has no power to do so. She IS, however, >>> manipulating their beliefs into an illusion as a magician >>> manipulates >>> his audience's perception. It LOOKS like he cut that woman in half, >>> but it's false. Tami LOOKS like she's being offensive, but it's >>> false. >>> >>> Tami cannot do that to me. Why? Because she just CAN'T. I have no >>> belief for her to manipulate. She's actually been very kind >>> towards me >>> and I enjoy her. >>> >>> I see that you are distressed by her antics. But I see that you are >>> the one responsible for your own distress. Would you like me to >>> facilitate the stress you feel around this? --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - kostenlos* mit Familie und Freunden von PC zu PC telefonieren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 I would say we observe both ourselves and others. If I want to be kind and notice I am not that, it is for me to do otherwise. I also notice when others appear to be intentionally unkind. I think it is counterproductive on a Board to have someone attacking others. It has a chilling effect on their desire to be vulnerable and to share honestly. That led to my query as to whether someone could be dropped from the Board. Vivian Re: Re: Black hole Tami > Dear Vivian, > > Are you defending or teaching? > > And it may be neither. > > But she is saying that to me. > > Love, > > > PS: I'd think she spelled it that way either on purpose, or because > she didn't care to look it up. We have a name for that, here: it's > Tami. Don't we love names? :-) Oh, and it's not anyones job to be > kind. We are too busy being rude, offending and counterproductive. We > have no time for kindness. You do it. > > Am 14.02.2007 um 22:57 schrieb Vivian Barning: > >> There is no question that we are responsible for our own distress >> and are the causers of it. We choose how to react. What one will >> cry at another will laugh and move on. >> >> However, if I see my actions or words cause another distress, even >> if I'm not responsible for that person's reaction, it is still >> appropriate for me to pull back and not do that action again. That >> is kindness. >> >> Continuing on a course that causes distress in others is to >> intentionally provoke reactions. >> >> And that is Tami. >> >> Vivian >> >>>>> What is the phone number of your cykayetris? >>>>> I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy >>>>> work with you >>>> >>>> That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe >>>> has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter >>>> productive. >>>> >>>> Vivian >>> >>> LOL. Now, if she wrote that to me, I would just think it's funny >>> that >>> she spelled psychiatrist so horribly wrong. Hahaha. :-D >>> >>> If I *believed* it was hurtful and counter productive, then I would >>> feel the same as you. I just see it as Tami being Tami. She >>> can't hurt >>> nor offend me. >>> >>> Let's see if I can break this down: >>> >>> Tami sees how someone can react to her behavior. She doesn't >>> control >>> their reactions. She has no power to do so. She IS, however, >>> manipulating their beliefs into an illusion as a magician >>> manipulates >>> his audience's perception. It LOOKS like he cut that woman in half, >>> but it's false. Tami LOOKS like she's being offensive, but it's >>> false. >>> >>> Tami cannot do that to me. Why? Because she just CAN'T. I have no >>> belief for her to manipulate. She's actually been very kind >>> towards me >>> and I enjoy her. >>> >>> I see that you are distressed by her antics. But I see that you are >>> the one responsible for your own distress. Would you like me to >>> facilitate the stress you feel around this? --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - kostenlos* mit Familie und Freunden von PC zu PC telefonieren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 Yes. Talk for yourself. You say you notice when others appear to be intentionally unkind. In that moment you know something. How do you feel with this knowledge, and who would you be without it? You know how those feel who want to be unkind. It doesn't matter whether they really do or not. You know their motives, you know why they do it. And you know how those it is directed to feel. The moment you know these things they are real to you. They all are part of your world. So I question them. So that I can act without thought. Another quote: " A man sticks a pistol into my stomach, pulls the hammer back, and says: 'I'm going to ill you.' I am shocked that he is taking his thoughts so seriously. To seomone identified as an I, the thought of killing causes guilt that leads to a life of suffering, so I ask him, as kindly as I can, not to do it. I don't tell him that it's his suffering I'm thinking of. He says that he has to do it, and I understand; I remember believing that I had to do things in my old life. I thank him for doing the best he can, and I notice that I'm fascinated. " ... (A thousand names for joy, p.5) " I don't tell him that it's his suffering I'm thinking of. " Love, Vivian Barning schrieb: I would say we observe both ourselves and others. If I want to be kind and notice I am not that, it is for me to do otherwise. I also notice when others appear to be intentionally unkind. I think it is counterproductive on a Board to have someone attacking others. It has a chilling effect on their desire to be vulnerable and to share honestly. That led to my query as to whether someone could be dropped from the Board. Vivian Re: Re: Black hole Tami > Dear Vivian, > > Are you defending or teaching? > > And it may be neither. > > But she is saying that to me. > > Love, > > > PS: I'd think she spelled it that way either on purpose, or because > she didn't care to look it up. We have a name for that, here: it's > Tami. Don't we love names? :-) Oh, and it's not anyones job to be > kind. We are too busy being rude, offending and counterproductive. We > have no time for kindness. You do it. > > Am 14.02.2007 um 22:57 schrieb Vivian Barning: > >> There is no question that we are responsible for our own distress >> and are the causers of it. We choose how to react. What one will >> cry at another will laugh and move on. >> >> However, if I see my actions or words cause another distress, even >> if I'm not responsible for that person's reaction, it is still >> appropriate for me to pull back and not do that action again. That >> is kindness. >> >> Continuing on a course that causes distress in others is to >> intentionally provoke reactions. >> >> And that is Tami. >> >> Vivian >> >>>>> What is the phone number of your cykayetris? >>>>> I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy >>>>> work with you >>>> >>>> That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe >>>> has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter >>>> productive. >>>> >>>> Vivian >>> >>> LOL. Now, if she wrote that to me, I would just think it's funny >>> that >>> she spelled psychiatrist so horribly wrong. Hahaha. :-D >>> >>> If I *believed* it was hurtful and counter productive, then I would >>> feel the same as you. I just see it as Tami being Tami. She >>> can't hurt >>> nor offend me. >>> >>> Let's see if I can break this down: >>> >>> Tami sees how someone can react to her behavior. She doesn't >>> control >>> their reactions. She has no power to do so. She IS, however, >>> manipulating their beliefs into an illusion as a magician >>> manipulates >>> his audience's perception. It LOOKS like he cut that woman in half, >>> but it's false. Tami LOOKS like she's being offensive, but it's >>> false. >>> >>> Tami cannot do that to me. Why? Because she just CAN'T. I have no >>> belief for her to manipulate. She's actually been very kind >>> towards me >>> and I enjoy her. >>> >>> I see that you are distressed by her antics. But I see that you are >>> the one responsible for your own distress. Would you like me to >>> facilitate the stress you feel around this? --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - kostenlos* mit Familie und Freunden von PC zu PC telefonieren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 17, 2007 Report Share Posted February 17, 2007 I will admit that there are times I feel superior and that is not in my best interests. But other times I think only of the one who is being shamed by the Tamis of world. Still other times I think: I'm so glad that I don't do that. It is cruel. And then I like myself quite a lot. vivian Re: Re: Black hole Tami > Dear Vivian, > > Are you defending or teaching? > > And it may be neither. > > But she is saying that to me. > > Love, > > > PS: I'd think she spelled it that way either on purpose, or because > she didn't care to look it up. We have a name for that, here: it's > Tami. Don't we love names? :-) Oh, and it's not anyones job to be > kind. We are too busy being rude, offending and counterproductive. We > have no time for kindness. You do it. > > Am 14.02.2007 um 22:57 schrieb Vivian Barning: > >> There is no question that we are responsible for our own distress >> and are the causers of it. We choose how to react. What one will >> cry at another will laugh and move on. >> >> However, if I see my actions or words cause another distress, even >> if I'm not responsible for that person's reaction, it is still >> appropriate for me to pull back and not do that action again. That >> is kindness. >> >> Continuing on a course that causes distress in others is to >> intentionally provoke reactions. >> >> And that is Tami. >> >> Vivian >> >>>>> What is the phone number of your cykayetris? >>>>> I want to call him and tell him that he has been doing a lousy >>>>> work with you >>>> >>>> That's an example of the kind of comment from Tami that I believe >>>> has no place on a board like this. It is hurtful and counter >>>> productive. >>>> >>>> Vivian >>> >>> LOL. Now, if she wrote that to me, I would just think it's funny >>> that >>> she spelled psychiatrist so horribly wrong. Hahaha. :-D >>> >>> If I *believed* it was hurtful and counter productive, then I would >>> feel the same as you. I just see it as Tami being Tami. She >>> can't hurt >>> nor offend me. >>> >>> Let's see if I can break this down: >>> >>> Tami sees how someone can react to her behavior. She doesn't >>> control >>> their reactions. She has no power to do so. She IS, however, >>> manipulating their beliefs into an illusion as a magician >>> manipulates >>> his audience's perception. It LOOKS like he cut that woman in half, >>> but it's false. Tami LOOKS like she's being offensive, but it's >>> false. >>> >>> Tami cannot do that to me. Why? Because she just CAN'T. I have no >>> belief for her to manipulate. She's actually been very kind >>> towards me >>> and I enjoy her. >>> >>> I see that you are distressed by her antics. But I see that you are >>> the one responsible for your own distress. Would you like me to >>> facilitate the stress you feel around this? --------------------------------- Yahoo! Messenger - kostenlos* mit Familie und Freunden von PC zu PC telefonieren. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 , I am always good, (or so i am being told), and this may-be because it is the only way to like myself. That's the easy part. But sometimes i have to meet with evil people who aim to a good person as a target. And then i would like to not be good, for my own protection. So i feel sometimes that being a good person to everyone is like i am not good with myself- i feel it like i am straining myself. I am not sure If it is obligatory to be good in order to be at ease- what does say? Is it that important to find a good story? (terms good/not good/evil used extremely loosely. i have no idea what makes a person good or not, maybe just by their actions-if there is a wish to harm- or maybe it is just an undefined " feeling " ) nel " Vivian Barning " wrote: > > I will admit that there are times I feel superior and that is not in my best interests. > But other times I think only of the one who is being shamed by the Tamis of world. > Still other times I think: I'm so glad that I don't do that. It is cruel. And then I like myself quite a lot. > > vivian > Re: Re: Black hole Tami > > > Yes. Talk for yourself. You say you notice when others appear to be intentionally unkind. In that moment you know something. How do you feel with this knowledge, and who would you be without it? > > You know how those feel who want to be unkind. It doesn't matter whether they really do or not. You know their motives, you know why they do it. And you know how those it is directed to feel. The moment you know these things they are real to you. They all are part of your world. So I question them. So that I can act without thought. > > Another quote: > " A man sticks a pistol into my stomach, pulls the hammer back, and says: 'I'm going to ill you.' I am shocked that he is taking his thoughts so seriously. To seomone identified as an I, the thought of killing causes guilt that leads to a life of suffering, so I ask him, as kindly as I can, not to do it. I don't tell him that it's his suffering I'm thinking of. He says that he has to do it, and I understand; I remember believing that I had to do things in my old life. I thank him for doing the best he can, and I notice that I'm fascinated. " ... (A thousand names for joy, p.5) > > " I don't tell him that it's his suffering I'm thinking of. " > > Love, > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 Dear Vivian, > I will admit that there are times I feel superior and that is not in > my best interests. I'm glad you noticed. > But other times I think only of the one who is being shamed by the > Tamis of world. How loving of you. Towards the person being shamed. Do you know any? And do you really care for them? What do you want to protect them from? Why? What experience do you want to take away from them? Who *are* these people you want to protect? > Still other times I think: I'm so glad that I don't do that. It is > cruel. And then I like myself quite a lot. Yes, you are sooo wonderful! Give yourself a break once in a while. Love, ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted February 18, 2007 Report Share Posted February 18, 2007 , Thanks for your response. I'm curious as to your last comment: Give yourself a break once in awhile. I've heard that before from perceptive people. And yet I see it as just trying to be fair and evenhanded. Yes I hold myself to a high standard but why wouldn't I? And I would hope others would do the same, both to me and to themselves. Vivian Re: Re: Black hole Tami Dear Vivian, > I will admit that there are times I feel superior and that is not in > my best interests. I'm glad you noticed. > But other times I think only of the one who is being shamed by the > Tamis of world. How loving of you. Towards the person being shamed. Do you know any? And do you really care for them? What do you want to protect them from? Why? What experience do you want to take away from them? Who *are* these people you want to protect? > Still other times I think: I'm so glad that I don't do that. It is > cruel. And then I like myself quite a lot. Yes, you are sooo wonderful! Give yourself a break once in a while. Love, __________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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