Re: Black Hole Tami

[Guest guest]

Dear inocent V

Dear V

You set near your computer

With a glass of coffee or tea

And you are going threw the groups mail

Finally you feel stress, uneasiness

Name it

Someone might answer one of my post

And you had to see my name in your mail box

My name " Tami " is an invitation, no one force you to read what I wrote

No force you to read what others answer me either

I don't know if you are upset cause you read something I wrote

Or just seeing my name makes you uneasy

No, you don't want to question your thoughts about me

You want me out of this group

And may do what you want

But this group, for me is not exeption to real life

In here I get to love and I get to hate

For me you are as real as the people I leave with

All we need is a story to create reality

And I sure did created you in my world as a women who is very loving as long

as things are going her way

And I hear that you don't like me

And you want me out

So lets see if will cope with your request

p.s

You wrote:

" It is my belief that everyone whose emails I've read on this Yahoogroup is

Serious about the Work and about bringing positive change to their lives

with the exception of Tami "

Serious about the Work

Ammm, are you serious about the work?

Cause for me being serious about the work is doing the work

And a good start would be: I hate Tami cause she is not serous about the

work

And she doesn't bring positive change to people on this group "

Cause I have the feeling that I could be a good topic to a

Judge your neighbour worksheet

http://www.thework.com/pdf/JYN_4QBW_10_06.pdf

Love, T

-- Re: Re: Black Hole Tami

Thank you for your response. Yes, I want her banned. It is my belief that

everyone whose emails I've read on this Yahoogroup is serious about the Work

and about bringing positive change to their lives with the exception of Tami

I find her to be intentionally provocative and abusive to others. It is my

story that she intentionally wastes our time.

Thanks,

Vivian

Re: Re: Black Hole Tami

> Thank you to Hypegia for her comments regarding Tami. Tami is on my Spam

> list to enable me to avoid her posts. Unfortunately, many of you choose to

> comment on her posts so I read those until I recognize the subject matter.

> Any chance of the moderator banning Tami? Would others support that

> notion?

>

What a different story we all seem to have! Do you honestly feel that

strongly about Tami that you want her banned? Her posts do not worry me in

the least, neither does anyone else's. All my life I tried to avoid people

that would evoke strong emotional responses in me. When I realised that the

same type of people keep on appearing in my life and I need to change my

perception of them, they stopped appearing (or I stopped noticing). The

problem really never is with the other person :-)

In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on reality

quite good!

[Guest guest]

-hypegia.. when i read your first post i thought you must be in your

fiftys to be so wise.. and then you said something about living at

home.. and your much younger..

I didnt get this post .. i only see tami as funny.. annoying

sometimes..like howard stern or sasha cohen.. have not seen that movie..

im beginning to feel stupid .. but oh well..

love, roslyn

-- In Loving-what-is , " hypegia " wrote:

>

> Black Hole Tami

>

> [i am writing this knowing I don't know Tami at all. But seeing her

> behavior definitely impressed me into writing this.]

>

> I see you as a black hole among people, Tami. I don't say this with

> animosity or hatred. That's how I perceive your nature to be and I

> will avoid you as I would avoid a black hole, a tornado, or a Mack

> truck careening in my direction. None of those things I could

> challenge head on, just as I cannot challenge you. You would, I see,

> have the power to suck and slurp every bit of falsity and hypocrisy I

> have and vacuum me up into yourself. I acknowledge that and I choose

> to avoid some of it if only for the fact that I do like my life, be it

> a false story or not. Just as I have no truly logical reason not to

> drink lethal poison, I have no truly logical reason not to succumb to

> your demands should you choose to make them. If I allowed you to, you

> would joyfully drain my money, my possessions, my ambitions, my time,

> my friends and family, all of it, and still demand me to love you

> unconditionally and I would not be able to reason against it. So, I

> keep a story, and that story puts a cork in you. Death is the eventual

> black hole of us all. I'll joyfully choose to let that completely take

> me instead of you.

>

> *****

>

> I think this is why her provoking behavior irritated me. I knew there

> was no way around it and be completely story free. Impossible. I

> intuitively understood where the course of her challenges led – even

> if she chose not to take them that far – because I didn't want it out

> of her, specifically. Now I know. All stories challenged lead to

> self/ego-annihilation if taken to their completion. She has taught me

> that I don't HAVE to take her course just because she is setting up

> the bait. Doing the work can lead us there whichever path we choose. I

> call her a black hole because she is doing the challenging, the

> intentional flushing out of people's insecurities that people can get

> sucked into if allowed. I think it's awesome I came to this

> realization at all. Because EVERYTHING is a black hole. EVERYTHING can

> challenge our concepts and beliefs. She just happens to do it quite

> willingly and joyfully. It's as if she gladly tries to push people

> over the edge. She can't, but she definitely could if they allowed her

> to do so. Now here's the beauty of life: choice. If I decide to do

> this complete self/ego-annihilation, I choose where and how it is done

> (unless death chooses it first). I'm not speaking of suicide, I'm

> speaking of annihilating all the stories of my mind. Tami will not be

> that for me because I at least have that choice, that preference. I

> can keep my story to avoid her until I find an undoing more suitable

> for me, if ever. Until then, I can enjoy her banter, to look death in

> the face and laugh. I'll eventually get there anyways – at my pace or

> until death of the body takes over.

>

> In other words, I can be as hypocritical and false as I want to be and

> choose to do the work for the benefits *I* desire. This doesn't

> undermine the work, if anything it empowers us to with it as we

> please, not as I used to think it should be used for: to be completely

> story free. So anyone can challenge me. They can tell me I'm

> hypocritical, I'm selfish, I'm this that and the other. Perfect! I am,

> until I am not. And I love me completely for it.

>

> Thank you, Tami, girl. Love you.

>

[Guest guest]

Some people have the story that I am not a compassionate/loving person

What is compassionate anyway?

Can we all agree on one definition?

once define falling in love:

She said that it is 2 people who share stories :-)

So, even loving someone else is not personal

My point of view, read and make notes, it might help you in life:

I am beyond my/your judgments on me

And I am everything you THINK of me

So much wisdom in one person

I open a fan club

Anyone interested to join it?

T

-- Re: Black Hole Tami

>

>

>

> In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on

reality

> quite good!

>

Really? All of the people I've encountered who seem to have a good

grasp on reality, as you put it, don't seem to spend their time

intentionally attempting to provoke anyone else. They seem to care

very deeply about other's (even though they may realise it is not their

actions that cause's another harm, or that ultimately all is well),

they are deeply compassionate, they serve with the intention of

kindness. You may be amused by Tami, or not bothered by her in the

least...a good grasp on reality though? She does indeed occassionally

have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have within,

and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from it.

However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time

intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves,

suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to

manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a manner

as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality...

Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good grasp

and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple.

Yes, amazing how different our stories can be.

[Guest guest]

Hey sister

I am so exited for you

The taste of freedom

For me, the person who had such an impact on me in this group is

lovehtework "

He was my teacher for honesty, for not doing things to get other people's

aproval

There where times when I was the " good girl " and he (the way I see it)

provoke me

At the end I ended up being more solid with myself and less needy for others

aproval

That is why I love him so much, he changed my life

And I use to hate him when we didn't share stories

God is everywhere

Especially in the small details

I am so happy for your new realization

As much as it sound startnge I am not a bad person

I just love to say what is in my heart

Do you have skype?

T

-- Re: Black Hole Tami

> > In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on

> reality

> > quite good!

> >

>

> Really? All of the people I've encountered who seem to have a good

> grasp on reality, as you put it, don't seem to spend their time

> intentionally attempting to provoke anyone else. They seem to care

> very deeply about other's (even though they may realise it is not their

> actions that cause's another harm, or that ultimately all is well),

> they are deeply compassionate, they serve with the intention of

> kindness. You may be amused by Tami, or not bothered by her in the

> least...a good grasp on reality though? She does indeed occassionally

> have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have within,

> and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from it.

> However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time

> intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves,

> suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to

> manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a manner

> as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality...

Ok. This is going to take me a bit to explain. I used to feel the same

way you did. I equated doing the work with a visible 'improvement' in

behavior towards others. I see the two are not interrelated at all.

Tami is who she is. She is not obligated in any way whatsoever to

behave according to someone else's standards. How do I know that to be

true? Because she doesn't. Neither is she obligated to turn around her

seemingly offensive behavior for the seemingly benefit of mankind if

she does the work. How do I know that to be true? Because she doesn't.

Tami is entitled to do the work on the issues SHE desires. She is

entitled to not do the work at all. She can provoke and pester and

offend all she wants. How do I know that to be true? Because she does.

And she is entitled to it.

It was an enlightened moment of mine when I realized that if I took

the bait every single time and got offended and then did the work on

my offense that Tami would 'win'. If Tami said, " Move to my city, give

me your belongings, let me humiliate you in front of everybody, " and I

said " No. I shouldn't " , automatically I've got a 'should' statement I

would have to work on and in the end there would be nothing there to

resist her. I knew it and that's what aggravated me. I wanted to be

able to resist her and still work on being story free. Impossible. I

would need a story, a falsity with reality, in order to resist her.

Hence the whole 'Black Hole' metaphor of Tami. She would suck every

story you valued right out you if you diligently did the work on every

offense she commited in your eyes. And in the eyes of others she would

have you as a willing slave to her every desire. And... she would be

entitled to it.

I think many of us get tripped up because we feel we SHOULD be story

free. Woo! Look at that. Another should statement to be worked! Or

that the only way to be happy is to be story free. This was a huge

AHA! moment for me. No. I am filled with stories. Some of them I like.

I like the idea of NOT being Tami's slave. It's still a story, but

it's one I'm entitled to keep. You can keep any story you want...

until you die. It doesn't make you a failure to the work. Once I

realized that I don't have to end up Tami's slave, that I can hold

onto whatever story I desired, then NOTHING Tami can say or do can

offend me. I can laugh at her (or with her) because she does not have

the power to take my story away.

It's exactly as if you choose to side step an oncoming car. Either you

like the story of you being alive or you fear the story of you dying,

either way you move out of the way. It's a decision you make. Now, if

you made the decision in fear because you fear death, then it would be

stressful. But if you like the story of being alive, then you would

make a peaceful decision move out of the way and the car would not

scare you. Do you see the beauty of that?

I love Tami because she brought me to this realization. If she had

been banned, I may have never been able to experience that profound

sense of freedom that I have now. SHE DID BENEFIT ME (a small segment

of mankind.) I thoroughly enjoy her and her antics now. Do you think

she's going to be provoking ME for long if she knows I'll truly enjoy

it and laugh? Probably not. Suddenly, offensive, provoking, and

pestering Tami disappears and what's left is a beautiful woman in my

eyes that I'm extremely grateful towards.

> Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good grasp

> and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple.

All this means is that is different from Tami in behavior that

is more agreeable with the beliefs that you have. You have to realize

that offends MANY people with her behavior. It's the story that

THEY hold about her. You just don't see it because you either can't

see it (your beliefs are blocking it out) or you put stories on those

who don't like such as " Those people just don't get it. They are

lost in their world of ignorance and will never see her for who she

truly is: a beautiful woman who benefits mankind. "

Well, I can say the same to you about those who are offended by

Tami... Ooooh! I hope this is sinking in because it's really fantastic

stuff. :)

> Yes, amazing how different our stories can be.

>

I hear ya, sister!

Cheers!

[Guest guest]

Yes. Actually. I am attached to that thought we should all see Tami as

I see her. That's why I reply. I see someone as being blind towards

The benefits that Tami provides. It is my belief that someone is being

Blind. I then become blind to the entitlement that person has to be

Blind towards Tami's graceful nature. I am very confused.

{Tami}

Some people just don't get it, ha?

They don't get my " graceful nature "

What do I need to do to get to them???

I wrote about my boyfriend's sperm

And they didn't get my graceful nature

I posted the parlor in here

And they didn't get my graceful nature

I even dated a married man, Grrr

And they didn't get my graceful nature

With whom do I need to have sex hear, so that people finally will THINK of

me has:

Graceful ?

Confused yet enlightened

[Guest guest]

Thank you to Hypegia for her comments regarding Tami. Tami is on my Spam list to

enable me to avoid her posts. Unfortunately, many of you choose to comment on

her posts so I read those until I recognize the subject matter.

Any chance of the moderator banning Tami? Would others support that notion?

Vivian

Re: Black Hole Tami

-hypegia.. when i read your first post i thought you must be in your

fiftys to be so wise.. and then you said something about living at

home.. and your much younger..

I didnt get this post .. i only see tami as funny.. annoying

sometimes..like howard stern or sasha cohen.. have not seen that movie..

im beginning to feel stupid .. but oh well..

love, roslyn

-- In Loving-what-is , " hypegia " wrote:

>

> Black Hole Tami

>

> [i am writing this knowing I don't know Tami at all. But seeing her

> behavior definitely impressed me into writing this.]

>

> I see you as a black hole among people, Tami. I don't say this with

> animosity or hatred. That's how I perceive your nature to be and I

> will avoid you as I would avoid a black hole, a tornado, or a Mack

> truck careening in my direction. None of those things I could

> challenge head on, just as I cannot challenge you. You would, I see,

> have the power to suck and slurp every bit of falsity and hypocrisy I

> have and vacuum me up into yourself. I acknowledge that and I choose

> to avoid some of it if only for the fact that I do like my life, be it

> a false story or not. Just as I have no truly logical reason not to

> drink lethal poison, I have no truly logical reason not to succumb to

> your demands should you choose to make them. If I allowed you to, you

> would joyfully drain my money, my possessions, my ambitions, my time,

> my friends and family, all of it, and still demand me to love you

> unconditionally and I would not be able to reason against it. So, I

> keep a story, and that story puts a cork in you. Death is the eventual

> black hole of us all. I'll joyfully choose to let that completely take

> me instead of you.

>

> *****

>

> I think this is why her provoking behavior irritated me. I knew there

> was no way around it and be completely story free. Impossible. I

> intuitively understood where the course of her challenges led - even

> if she chose not to take them that far - because I didn't want it out

> of her, specifically. Now I know. All stories challenged lead to

> self/ego-annihilation if taken to their completion. She has taught me

> that I don't HAVE to take her course just because she is setting up

> the bait. Doing the work can lead us there whichever path we choose. I

> call her a black hole because she is doing the challenging, the

> intentional flushing out of people's insecurities that people can get

> sucked into if allowed. I think it's awesome I came to this

> realization at all. Because EVERYTHING is a black hole. EVERYTHING can

> challenge our concepts and beliefs. She just happens to do it quite

> willingly and joyfully. It's as if she gladly tries to push people

> over the edge. She can't, but she definitely could if they allowed her

> to do so. Now here's the beauty of life: choice. If I decide to do

> this complete self/ego-annihilation, I choose where and how it is done

> (unless death chooses it first). I'm not speaking of suicide, I'm

> speaking of annihilating all the stories of my mind. Tami will not be

> that for me because I at least have that choice, that preference. I

> can keep my story to avoid her until I find an undoing more suitable

> for me, if ever. Until then, I can enjoy her banter, to look death in

> the face and laugh. I'll eventually get there anyways - at my pace or

> until death of the body takes over.

>

> In other words, I can be as hypocritical and false as I want to be and

> choose to do the work for the benefits *I* desire. This doesn't

> undermine the work, if anything it empowers us to with it as we

> please, not as I used to think it should be used for: to be completely

> story free. So anyone can challenge me. They can tell me I'm

> hypocritical, I'm selfish, I'm this that and the other. Perfect! I am,

> until I am not. And I love me completely for it.

>

> Thank you, Tami, girl. Love you.

>

[Guest guest]

> Thank you to Hypegia for her comments regarding Tami. Tami is on my Spam

> list to enable me to avoid her posts. Unfortunately, many of you choose to

> comment on her posts so I read those until I recognize the subject matter.

> Any chance of the moderator banning Tami? Would others support that

> notion?

>

What a different story we all seem to have! Do you honestly feel that

strongly about Tami that you want her banned? Her posts do not worry me in

the least, neither does anyone else's. All my life I tried to avoid people

that would evoke strong emotional responses in me. When I realised that the

same type of people keep on appearing in my life and I need to change my

perception of them, they stopped appearing (or I stopped noticing). The

problem really never is with the other person :-)

In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on reality

quite good!

[Guest guest]

Thank you for your response. Yes, I want her banned. It is my belief that

everyone whose emails I've read on this Yahoogroup is serious about the Work and

about bringing positive change to their lives with the exception of Tami.

I find her to be intentionally provocative and abusive to others. It is my story

that she intentionally wastes our time.

Thanks,

Vivian

Re: Re: Black Hole Tami

> Thank you to Hypegia for her comments regarding Tami. Tami is on my Spam

> list to enable me to avoid her posts. Unfortunately, many of you choose to

> comment on her posts so I read those until I recognize the subject matter.

> Any chance of the moderator banning Tami? Would others support that

> notion?

>

What a different story we all seem to have! Do you honestly feel that

strongly about Tami that you want her banned? Her posts do not worry me in

the least, neither does anyone else's. All my life I tried to avoid people

that would evoke strong emotional responses in me. When I realised that the

same type of people keep on appearing in my life and I need to change my

perception of them, they stopped appearing (or I stopped noticing). The

problem really never is with the other person :-)

In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on reality

quite good!

[Guest guest]

Dear V

I found your statement:

" Do you even know that she has a boyfriend, much less what their intimate

life is like (if there is one)? I think some of you were duped and she is

sitting back laughing her ass off. "

To be very provocative, don't you think so?

You claim that I made up that I have a boyfriend

WHY it is provocative for me?

It is provocative because it is a lie

For me, a women who dated for 8 month

(haven't you noticed that in the last few months I wasn't very activate

here?

I was to busy sucking his pines!)

It parsive as provocation.

So, you tried to provoke me,

And my job is to " sit back laughing my ass off "

and enjoy the show

However I cannot enjoy the show of you if I will try to make you believe my

story

I would be too busy arguing with you.

I prefer the first path

I don't have a boyfriend in V's world. Ok, I can live with that.

T

P.s

I can prove you that I had one for 8 months

talked to him on the phone

Right, ?

-- Re: Re: Black Hole Tami

HI,

Thank you for all your comments. You are of course correct. People can be as

annoying as they want to be. That's their right. It is the right of others

to react of course and then they may or may not be satisfied with their own

reactions.

You may many great points. In thinking everything over, it seems to me it

really isn't Tami so much that I'm annoyed with. She put out there what I

find to be an outrageous topic. I believe she did it (and I know this is a

story but it is based on comments she has made in this board) precisely to

provoke a reaction.

What annoys me is that several people took it really seriously and wrote

back absolutely " sweet " responses trying to " help " her with her problem with

her new boyfriend.

Do you even know that she has a boyfriend, much less what their intimate

life is like (if there is one)? I think some of you were duped and she is

sitting back laughing her ass off.

Vivian

Re: Black Hole Tami

> > In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on

> reality

> > quite good!

> >

>

> Really? All of the people I've encountered who seem to have a good

> grasp on reality, as you put it, don't seem to spend their time

> intentionally attempting to provoke anyone else. They seem to care

> very deeply about other's (even though they may realise it is not their

> actions that cause's another harm, or that ultimately all is well),

> they are deeply compassionate, they serve with the intention of

> kindness. You may be amused by Tami, or not bothered by her in the

> least...a good grasp on reality though? She does indeed occassionally

> have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have within,

> and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from it.

> However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time

> intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves,

> suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to

> manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a manner

> as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality...

Ok. This is going to take me a bit to explain. I used to feel the same

way you did. I equated doing the work with a visible 'improvement' in

behavior towards others. I see the two are not interrelated at all.

Tami is who she is. She is not obligated in any way whatsoever to

behave according to someone else's standards. How do I know that to be

true? Because she doesn't. Neither is she obligated to turn around her

seemingly offensive behavior for the seemingly benefit of mankind if

she does the work. How do I know that to be true? Because she doesn't.

Tami is entitled to do the work on the issues SHE desires. She is

entitled to not do the work at all. She can provoke and pester and

offend all she wants. How do I know that to be true? Because she does.

And she is entitled to it.

It was an enlightened moment of mine when I realized that if I took

the bait every single time and got offended and then did the work on

my offense that Tami would 'win'. If Tami said, " Move to my city, give

me your belongings, let me humiliate you in front of everybody, " and I

said " No. I shouldn't " , automatically I've got a 'should' statement I

would have to work on and in the end there would be nothing there to

resist her. I knew it and that's what aggravated me. I wanted to be

able to resist her and still work on being story free. Impossible. I

would need a story, a falsity with reality, in order to resist her.

Hence the whole 'Black Hole' metaphor of Tami. She would suck every

story you valued right out you if you diligently did the work on every

offense she commited in your eyes. And in the eyes of others she would

have you as a willing slave to her every desire. And... she would be

entitled to it.

I think many of us get tripped up because we feel we SHOULD be story

free. Woo! Look at that. Another should statement to be worked! Or

that the only way to be happy is to be story free. This was a huge

AHA! moment for me. No. I am filled with stories. Some of them I like.

I like the idea of NOT being Tami's slave. It's still a story, but

it's one I'm entitled to keep. You can keep any story you want...

until you die. It doesn't make you a failure to the work. Once I

realized that I don't have to end up Tami's slave, that I can hold

onto whatever story I desired, then NOTHING Tami can say or do can

offend me. I can laugh at her (or with her) because she does not have

the power to take my story away.

It's exactly as if you choose to side step an oncoming car. Either you

like the story of you being alive or you fear the story of you dying,

either way you move out of the way. It's a decision you make. Now, if

you made the decision in fear because you fear death, then it would be

stressful. But if you like the story of being alive, then you would

make a peaceful decision move out of the way and the car would not

scare you. Do you see the beauty of that?

I love Tami because she brought me to this realization. If she had

been banned, I may have never been able to experience that profound

sense of freedom that I have now. SHE DID BENEFIT ME (a small segment

of mankind.) I thoroughly enjoy her and her antics now. Do you think

she's going to be provoking ME for long if she knows I'll truly enjoy

it and laugh? Probably not. Suddenly, offensive, provoking, and

pestering Tami disappears and what's left is a beautiful woman in my

eyes that I'm extremely grateful towards.

> Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good grasp

> and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple.

All this means is that is different from Tami in behavior that

is more agreeable with the beliefs that you have. You have to realize

that offends MANY people with her behavior. It's the story that

THEY hold about her. You just don't see it because you either can't

see it (your beliefs are blocking it out) or you put stories on those

who don't like such as " Those people just don't get it. They are

lost in their world of ignorance and will never see her for who she

truly is: a beautiful woman who benefits mankind. "

Well, I can say the same to you about those who are offended by

Tami... Ooooh! I hope this is sinking in because it's really fantastic

stuff. :)

> Yes, amazing how different our stories can be.

>

I hear ya, sister!

Cheers!

[Guest guest]

>

>

>

> In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on

reality

> quite good!

>

Really? All of the people I've encountered who seem to have a good

grasp on reality, as you put it, don't seem to spend their time

intentionally attempting to provoke anyone else. They seem to care

very deeply about other's (even though they may realise it is not their

actions that cause's another harm, or that ultimately all is well),

they are deeply compassionate, they serve with the intention of

kindness. You may be amused by Tami, or not bothered by her in the

least...a good grasp on reality though? She does indeed occassionally

have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have within,

and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from it.

However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time

intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves,

suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to

manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a manner

as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality...

Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good grasp

and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple.

Yes, amazing how different our stories can be.

[Guest guest]

My story is that people who feel:

1) they have to impress others

2) they should not be criticised

3) other people should behave in ways acceptable to them

4) they should be shown the proper respect

5) they should not be provoked

have only just started the journey of understanding that it is only my mind

and my story that can ever hurt me. You can ban Tami if you want to, it is

neither here nor there, but you can rest assured that Tami with a different

name will show up on this list again. The world is full of Tamis and s

and Viviennes and s and Hanles etc. Banning Tami may give you

temporary relieve of all your current judgements, but they will just show up

again in someone else UNTIL you go deep within. Only by seeing and releasing

ones belief system about " Tami (or anyone else) should behave in a more

appropriate way " will the Tamis in your life disappear.

So that does make me question how serious everyone who wants Tami banned

really is about the work? Are you attaching to your thoughts about Tami or

enquiring about the reason you find her offensive?

To me there is one incredible powerful enquiry which will apply to almost

any discomfort you feel:

OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD BEHAVE IN A WAY ACCEPTABLE TO ME

This thought has certainly been at the bottom of all my unhappiness. I can

see that right now I need to go and do the work on how I expect you and

Vivienne to behave :-)

Just an aside, I am really enjoying everyone else's posts too. The different

angles that people come from are always very helpful.

>> In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on

> reality

>> quite good!

>>

>

> Really? All of the people I've encountered who seem to have a good

> grasp on reality, as you put it, don't seem to spend their time

> intentionally attempting to provoke anyone else. They seem to care

> very deeply about other's (even though they may realise it is not their

> actions that cause's another harm, or that ultimately all is well),

> they are deeply compassionate, they serve with the intention of

> kindness. You may be amused by Tami, or not bothered by her in the

> least...a good grasp on reality though? She does indeed occassionally

> have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have within,

> and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from it.

> However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time

> intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves,

> suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to

> manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a manner

> as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality...

>

> Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good grasp

> and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple.

>

> Yes, amazing how different our stories can be.

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Bravo, and well put.

[Guest guest]

>

I agree with most of what you said. And personally, I dont believe

the thought that Tami or anyone else on the planet should behave in a

way that is acceptable to me ~ that is not what was said. I am still

able to notice the behaviour of other's and I notice behaviour at

times that does not seem kind or clear to me. In myself, and others.

As says, anyone who would harm another is very confused. If I

was attached to the thought that anyone should be different than they

are, and I suffered, I would indeed inquire into that stressful

thought. I dont happened to think that a car speeding down the road

towards me shouldnt be there, I will, however, step out of its path

rather than let it run me down. I see no problem with that. Are you

attached to the thought that we should all see Tami as you do?

Thanks for your teachings.

Cheers!

> My story is that people who feel:

>

> 1) they have to impress others

> 2) they should not be criticised

> 3) other people should behave in ways acceptable to them

> 4) they should be shown the proper respect

> 5) they should not be provoked

>

> have only just started the journey of understanding that it is only

my mind

> and my story that can ever hurt me. You can ban Tami if you want

to, it is

> neither here nor there, but you can rest assured that Tami with a

different

> name will show up on this list again. The world is full of Tamis

and s

> and Viviennes and s and Hanles etc. Banning Tami may give

you

> temporary relieve of all your current judgements, but they will

just show up

> again in someone else UNTIL you go deep within. Only by seeing and

releasing

> ones belief system about " Tami (or anyone else) should behave in a

more

> appropriate way " will the Tamis in your life disappear.

>

> So that does make me question how serious everyone who wants Tami

banned

> really is about the work? Are you attaching to your thoughts about

Tami or

> enquiring about the reason you find her offensive?

>

> To me there is one incredible powerful enquiry which will apply to

almost

> any discomfort you feel:

>

> OTHER PEOPLE SHOULD BEHAVE IN A WAY ACCEPTABLE TO ME

>

> This thought has certainly been at the bottom of all my

unhappiness. I can

> see that right now I need to go and do the work on how I expect you

and

> Vivienne to behave :-)

>

> Just an aside, I am really enjoying everyone else's posts too. The

different

> angles that people come from are always very helpful.

>

> >> In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp

on

> > reality

> >> quite good!

> >>

> >

> > Really? All of the people I've encountered who seem to have a

good

> > grasp on reality, as you put it, don't seem to spend their time

> > intentionally attempting to provoke anyone else. They seem to

care

> > very deeply about other's (even though they may realise it is not

their

> > actions that cause's another harm, or that ultimately all is

well),

> > they are deeply compassionate, they serve with the intention of

> > kindness. You may be amused by Tami, or not bothered by her in the

> > least...a good grasp on reality though? She does indeed

occassionally

> > have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have

within,

> > and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from

it.

> > However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time

> > intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves,

> > suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to

> > manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a

manner

> > as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality...

> >

> > Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good

grasp

> > and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple.

> >

> > Yes, amazing how different our stories can be.

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> > In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on

> reality

> > quite good!

> >

>

> Really? All of the people I've encountered who seem to have a good

> grasp on reality, as you put it, don't seem to spend their time

> intentionally attempting to provoke anyone else. They seem to care

> very deeply about other's (even though they may realise it is not their

> actions that cause's another harm, or that ultimately all is well),

> they are deeply compassionate, they serve with the intention of

> kindness. You may be amused by Tami, or not bothered by her in the

> least...a good grasp on reality though? She does indeed occassionally

> have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have within,

> and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from it.

> However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time

> intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves,

> suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to

> manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a manner

> as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality...

Ok. This is going to take me a bit to explain. I used to feel the same

way you did. I equated doing the work with a visible 'improvement' in

behavior towards others. I see the two are not interrelated at all.

Tami is who she is. She is not obligated in any way whatsoever to

behave according to someone else's standards. How do I know that to be

true? Because she doesn't. Neither is she obligated to turn around her

seemingly offensive behavior for the seemingly benefit of mankind if

she does the work. How do I know that to be true? Because she doesn't.

Tami is entitled to do the work on the issues SHE desires. She is

entitled to not do the work at all. She can provoke and pester and

offend all she wants. How do I know that to be true? Because she does.

And she is entitled to it.

It was an enlightened moment of mine when I realized that if I took

the bait every single time and got offended and then did the work on

my offense that Tami would 'win'. If Tami said, " Move to my city, give

me your belongings, let me humiliate you in front of everybody, " and I

said " No. I shouldn't " , automatically I've got a 'should' statement I

would have to work on and in the end there would be nothing there to

resist her. I knew it and that's what aggravated me. I wanted to be

able to resist her and still work on being story free. Impossible. I

would need a story, a falsity with reality, in order to resist her.

Hence the whole 'Black Hole' metaphor of Tami. She would suck every

story you valued right out you if you diligently did the work on every

offense she commited in your eyes. And in the eyes of others she would

have you as a willing slave to her every desire. And... she would be

entitled to it.

I think many of us get tripped up because we feel we SHOULD be story

free. Woo! Look at that. Another should statement to be worked! Or

that the only way to be happy is to be story free. This was a huge

AHA! moment for me. No. I am filled with stories. Some of them I like.

I like the idea of NOT being Tami's slave. It's still a story, but

it's one I'm entitled to keep. You can keep any story you want...

until you die. It doesn't make you a failure to the work. Once I

realized that I don't have to end up Tami's slave, that I can hold

onto whatever story I desired, then NOTHING Tami can say or do can

offend me. I can laugh at her (or with her) because she does not have

the power to take my story away.

It's exactly as if you choose to side step an oncoming car. Either you

like the story of you being alive or you fear the story of you dying,

either way you move out of the way. It's a decision you make. Now, if

you made the decision in fear because you fear death, then it would be

stressful. But if you like the story of being alive, then you would

make a peaceful decision move out of the way and the car would not

scare you. Do you see the beauty of that?

I love Tami because she brought me to this realization. If she had

been banned, I may have never been able to experience that profound

sense of freedom that I have now. SHE DID BENEFIT ME (a small segment

of mankind.) I thoroughly enjoy her and her antics now. Do you think

she's going to be provoking ME for long if she knows I'll truly enjoy

it and laugh? Probably not. Suddenly, offensive, provoking, and

pestering Tami disappears and what's left is a beautiful woman in my

eyes that I'm extremely grateful towards.

> Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good grasp

> and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple.

All this means is that is different from Tami in behavior that

is more agreeable with the beliefs that you have. You have to realize

that offends MANY people with her behavior. It's the story that

THEY hold about her. You just don't see it because you either can't

see it (your beliefs are blocking it out) or you put stories on those

who don't like such as " Those people just don't get it. They are

lost in their world of ignorance and will never see her for who she

truly is: a beautiful woman who benefits mankind. "

Well, I can say the same to you about those who are offended by

Tami... Ooooh! I hope this is sinking in because it's really fantastic

stuff. :)

> Yes, amazing how different our stories can be.

>

I hear ya, sister!

Cheers!

[Guest guest]

> >

> I agree with most of what you said. And personally, I dont believe

> the thought that Tami or anyone else on the planet should behave in a

> way that is acceptable to me ~ that is not what was said. I am still

> able to notice the behaviour of other's and I notice behaviour at

> times that does not seem kind or clear to me. In myself, and others.

> As says, anyone who would harm another is very confused.

If I see anyone is harming someone, it is *me* doing the harming

because it is my belief that harm is being done. I would become

agitated and enraged and wanting to lash out and do some harm to the

one I believe is doing the harming. I turn into someone harmful. I

would be very confused, yes.

> Are you attached to the thought that we should all see Tami as you do?

Yes. Actually. I am attached to that thought we should all see Tami as

I see her. That's why I reply. I see someone as being blind towards

the benefits that Tami provides. It is my belief that someone is being

blind. I then become blind to the entitlement that person has to be

blind towards Tami's graceful nature. I am very confused.

[Guest guest]

Yes, you recognize me as a group one. Have been all my life. The group 2

people are probably happier. But I wouldn't want to be them. It strikes me

as mindless. Do you know the phrase: Happy little morons?

I'd rather have the awareness of a grp. 1 person and suffer the consequences

(unhappiness, anger etc.) than be a grp. 2. But that's just me.

Are you now always a grp. 2 or do you jump back and forth?

Vivian

Dear stupid V

Thank god you blocked me cause you might not like your new nick name

Anyway, you wrote:

" I'd rather have the awareness of a grp. 1 "

And that " awareness " would be what?

Let me guess:

" Do you even know that she has a boyfriend, much less what their intimate

life is

Like (if there is one)? I think some of you were duped and she is sitting

back

Laughing her ass off. "

It doesn't sound like an awareness to me

More like a story, and may I add a stressful one

So stick to it, be right about me

I pray for you, and a good facilitator can get you out of this

AMEN, T

[Guest guest]

HI,

Thank you for all your comments. You are of course correct. People can be as

annoying as they want to be. That's their right. It is the right of others to

react of course and then they may or may not be satisfied with their own

reactions.

You may many great points. In thinking everything over, it seems to me it really

isn't Tami so much that I'm annoyed with. She put out there what I find to be an

outrageous topic. I believe she did it (and I know this is a story but it is

based on comments she has made in this board) precisely to provoke a reaction.

What annoys me is that several people took it really seriously and wrote back

absolutely " sweet " responses trying to " help " her with her problem with her new

boyfriend.

Do you even know that she has a boyfriend, much less what their intimate life is

like (if there is one)? I think some of you were duped and she is sitting back

laughing her ass off.

Vivian

Re: Black Hole Tami

> > In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's grasp on

> reality

> > quite good!

> >

>

> Really? All of the people I've encountered who seem to have a good

> grasp on reality, as you put it, don't seem to spend their time

> intentionally attempting to provoke anyone else. They seem to care

> very deeply about other's (even though they may realise it is not their

> actions that cause's another harm, or that ultimately all is well),

> they are deeply compassionate, they serve with the intention of

> kindness. You may be amused by Tami, or not bothered by her in the

> least...a good grasp on reality though? She does indeed occassionally

> have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have within,

> and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from it.

> However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time

> intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves,

> suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to

> manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a manner

> as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality...

Ok. This is going to take me a bit to explain. I used to feel the same

way you did. I equated doing the work with a visible 'improvement' in

behavior towards others. I see the two are not interrelated at all.

Tami is who she is. She is not obligated in any way whatsoever to

behave according to someone else's standards. How do I know that to be

true? Because she doesn't. Neither is she obligated to turn around her

seemingly offensive behavior for the seemingly benefit of mankind if

she does the work. How do I know that to be true? Because she doesn't.

Tami is entitled to do the work on the issues SHE desires. She is

entitled to not do the work at all. She can provoke and pester and

offend all she wants. How do I know that to be true? Because she does.

And she is entitled to it.

It was an enlightened moment of mine when I realized that if I took

the bait every single time and got offended and then did the work on

my offense that Tami would 'win'. If Tami said, " Move to my city, give

me your belongings, let me humiliate you in front of everybody, " and I

said " No. I shouldn't " , automatically I've got a 'should' statement I

would have to work on and in the end there would be nothing there to

resist her. I knew it and that's what aggravated me. I wanted to be

able to resist her and still work on being story free. Impossible. I

would need a story, a falsity with reality, in order to resist her.

Hence the whole 'Black Hole' metaphor of Tami. She would suck every

story you valued right out you if you diligently did the work on every

offense she commited in your eyes. And in the eyes of others she would

have you as a willing slave to her every desire. And... she would be

entitled to it.

I think many of us get tripped up because we feel we SHOULD be story

free. Woo! Look at that. Another should statement to be worked! Or

that the only way to be happy is to be story free. This was a huge

AHA! moment for me. No. I am filled with stories. Some of them I like.

I like the idea of NOT being Tami's slave. It's still a story, but

it's one I'm entitled to keep. You can keep any story you want...

until you die. It doesn't make you a failure to the work. Once I

realized that I don't have to end up Tami's slave, that I can hold

onto whatever story I desired, then NOTHING Tami can say or do can

offend me. I can laugh at her (or with her) because she does not have

the power to take my story away.

It's exactly as if you choose to side step an oncoming car. Either you

like the story of you being alive or you fear the story of you dying,

either way you move out of the way. It's a decision you make. Now, if

you made the decision in fear because you fear death, then it would be

stressful. But if you like the story of being alive, then you would

make a peaceful decision move out of the way and the car would not

scare you. Do you see the beauty of that?

I love Tami because she brought me to this realization. If she had

been banned, I may have never been able to experience that profound

sense of freedom that I have now. SHE DID BENEFIT ME (a small segment

of mankind.) I thoroughly enjoy her and her antics now. Do you think

she's going to be provoking ME for long if she knows I'll truly enjoy

it and laugh? Probably not. Suddenly, offensive, provoking, and

pestering Tami disappears and what's left is a beautiful woman in my

eyes that I'm extremely grateful towards.

> Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good grasp

> and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple.

All this means is that is different from Tami in behavior that

is more agreeable with the beliefs that you have. You have to realize

that offends MANY people with her behavior. It's the story that

THEY hold about her. You just don't see it because you either can't

see it (your beliefs are blocking it out) or you put stories on those

who don't like such as " Those people just don't get it. They are

lost in their world of ignorance and will never see her for who she

truly is: a beautiful woman who benefits mankind. "

Well, I can say the same to you about those who are offended by

Tami... Ooooh! I hope this is sinking in because it's really fantastic

stuff. :)

> Yes, amazing how different our stories can be.

>

I hear ya, sister!

Cheers!

[Guest guest]

Are you

> attached to the thought that we should all see Tami as you do?

> Thanks for your teachings.

>

I actually went straight from my previous mail and did the work on " people

on lists should be more accepting of others " and you are right, I was very

attached to the thought. The turnaround " I should be more accepting of

people on lists " I felt to be particularly true for me.

Thank you!

[Guest guest]

> Suddenly, offensive, provoking, and

> pestering Tami disappears and what's left is a beautiful woman in my

> eyes that I'm extremely grateful towards.

>

This is my experience too, I just can't put it as well LOL. Tami made me

realise how wonderful it is to let go of some stories and how much freedom

there is when you see someone tries to provoke and all you experience is

gurgling joy. I love her for that.

[Guest guest]

>

>

> > > In amongst all the provocation in her posts, I find Tami's

grasp on

> > reality

> > > quite good!

> > >

> >

> > Really? All of the people I've encountered who seem to have a

good

> > grasp on reality, as you put it, don't seem to spend their time

> > intentionally attempting to provoke anyone else. They seem to

care

> > very deeply about other's (even though they may realise it is not

their

> > actions that cause's another harm, or that ultimately all is

well),

> > they are deeply compassionate, they serve with the intention of

> > kindness. You may be amused by Tami, or not bothered by her in

the

> > least...a good grasp on reality though? She does indeed

occassionally

> > have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have

within,

> > and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from

it.

> > However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time

> > intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves,

> > suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to

> > manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a

manner

> > as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality...

>

> Ok. This is going to take me a bit to explain. I used to feel the

same

> way you did. I equated doing the work with a visible 'improvement'

in

> behavior towards others.

**

Then, we dont feel the same way. I dont equate doing the work with a

visible 'improvement' in behaviour towars others.

I see the two are not interrelated at all.

> Tami is who she is. She is not obligated in any way whatsoever to

> behave according to someone else's standards.

**I agree.

How do I know that to be

> true? Because she doesn't. Neither is she obligated to turn around

her

> seemingly offensive behavior for the seemingly benefit of mankind if

> she does the work. How do I know that to be true? Because she

doesn't.

**I have never requested that or expected it. That's waht i find so

amusing.

> Tami is entitled to do the work on the issues SHE desires.

** I have never requested Tami to do the work....

She is

> entitled to not do the work at all. She can provoke and pester and

> offend all she wants. How do I know that to be true? Because she

does.

> And she is entitled to it.

** Who is arguing with this??

>

> It was an enlightened moment of mine when I realized that if I took

> the bait every single time and got offended and then did the work on

> my offense that Tami would 'win'.

***For me this has nothing to do with : winning.

If Tami said, " Move to my city, give

> me your belongings, let me humiliate you in front of everybody, "

and I

> said " No. I shouldn't " , automatically I've got a 'should' statement

I

> would have to work on and in the end there would be nothing there to

> resist her. I knew it and that's what aggravated me. I wanted to be

> able to resist her and still work on being story free. Impossible. I

> would need a story, a falsity with reality, in order to resist her.

> Hence the whole 'Black Hole' metaphor of Tami. She would suck every

> story you valued right out you if you diligently did the work on

every

> offense she commited in your eyes. And in the eyes of others she

would

> have you as a willing slave to her every desire. And... she would be

> entitled to it.

>

> I think many of us get tripped up because we feel we SHOULD be story

> free. Woo! Look at that.

** no story , no world.

Another should statement to be worked! Or

> that the only way to be happy is to be story free. This was a huge

> AHA! moment for me.

*** good for you.

No. I am filled with stories. Some of them I like.

> I like the idea of NOT being Tami's slave.

** I dont feel llike tami's slave, that would be your story

totally!! i dont need her to change to be completely happy or to ask

for what i want.

It's still a story, but

> it's one I'm entitled to keep. You can keep any story you want...

> until you die. It doesn't make you a failure to the work. Once I

> realized that I don't have to end up Tami's slave, that I can hold

> onto whatever story I desired, then NOTHING Tami can say or do can

> offend me. I can laugh at her (or with her) because she does not

have

> the power to take my story away.

>

> It's exactly as if you choose to side step an oncoming car. Either

you

> like the story of you being alive or you fear the story of you

dying,

> either way you move out of the way. It's a decision you make. Now,

if

> you made the decision in fear because you fear death, then it would

be

> stressful. But if you like the story of being alive, then you would

> make a peaceful decision move out of the way and the car would not

> scare you. Do you see the beauty of that?

**of course i do. you make my point quite nicely.

>

> I love Tami because she brought me to this realization. If she had

> been banned, I may have never been able to experience that profound

> sense of freedom that I have now. SHE DID BENEFIT ME (a small

segment

> of mankind.) I thoroughly enjoy her and her antics now. Do you think

> she's going to be provoking ME for long if she knows I'll truly

enjoy

> it and laugh? Probably not. Suddenly, offensive, provoking, and

> pestering Tami disappears and what's left is a beautiful woman in my

> eyes that I'm extremely grateful towards.

>

>

>

> > Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good

grasp

> > and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple.

>

> All this means is that is different from Tami in behavior that

> is more agreeable with the beliefs that you have. You have to

realize

> that offends MANY people with her behavior. It's the story

that

> THEY hold about her. You just don't see it because you either can't

> see it (your beliefs are blocking it out) or you put stories on

those

> who don't like such as " Those people just don't get it. They

are

> lost in their world of ignorance and will never see her for who she

> truly is: a beautiful woman who benefits mankind. "

>

> Well, I can say the same to you about those who are offended by

> Tami... Ooooh! I hope this is sinking in because it's really

fantastic

> stuff. :)

**That-s very funny. I hope its sinking in for you too. Why dont

you start a tami group??? yes my story about tami andkatie are

different, however it doesnt mean that i dont see the value or the

perfection of both....you would be missing that if you dont see it.

>

>

> > Yes, amazing how different our stories can be.

> >

>

> I hear ya, sister!

>

> Cheers!

>

[Guest guest]

, you wrote:

" That-s very funny. I hope its sinking in for you too. Why dont

you start a tami group??? yes my story about tami andkatie are

different, however it doesnt mean that i dont see the value or the

perfection of both....you would be missing that if you dont see it. "

And you wrote:

" She does indeed occassionally

have clarity and has access to the same wisdom that we all have within,

and when she chooses to come from that place we all benefit from it.

However, anyone who disregards others feelings, spends their time

intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse themselves,

suffers from bouts of depression, is occupied by the attempt to

manipulate and needs to express their sexuality in as juvenile a manner

as Tami, wouldnt appear to me to have a good grasp on reality...

Look at 's behaviour as an example of someone with a good grasp

and compare it to Tami's....for me it's that simple. "

Are you saying that has better credibility than Tami, is that

your point?

My personal point boils down to this: Both and Tami have the

same story in my eyes, equal credibility to move the work.

doesn't have a 'better grasp on reality' than Tami. I completely

understand if that's your story, because that was mine before, too.

Yes, they are both perfect: perfectly the same. They are both

perfectly me and my interpretation of reality. If one doesn't have a

'better grasp on reality' then that means through that individual that

I'm the one that doesn't have the better grasp on reality to see them

with clarity, and I would 'disregards their feelings, spend my time

intentionally attempting to provoke in order to amuse myself,

suffers from bouts of depression, be occupied by the attempt to

manipulate and need to express sensitive topics in as juvenile a

manner as I could.' Just because I might restrain my actions better

than Tami doesn't mean I restrain the desire to do those things to

someone I don't have a great grasp of reality on.

I think I should start a group on you, because that zinger up there

makes feel out of grasp with reality.

Bahaha.

[Guest guest]

> What annoys me is that several people took it really seriously and

wrote back absolutely " sweet " responses trying to " help " her with her

problem with her new boyfriend.

>

> Do you even know that she has a boyfriend, much less what their

intimate life is like (if there is one)? I think some of you were

duped and she is sitting back laughing her ass off.

>

> Vivian

Hi, Viv.

Yes. I can totally understand the irritation here for you. There are

at least two kinds of people who will read Tami's post:

1) The kind that will get offended by her outrageous antics and find

them inappropriate, and wouldn't grace them with a comment feeling for

sure that they are being the butt of some kind of joke

and

2) Those who take her post to heart, actually think of an answer, do

or don't give an honest reply to her questions, then go happily on

their way again. If they are being duped, they don't know it. How can

they prove it true either way? BUT they are happy. And maybe they even

laugh and chortle by her wacky antics as it adds even more joy to

their lives.

Either way, Tami gets a reaction out of both groups (even blocking her

is a reaction). Which group would make you, your mind, and your body

feel better?

I went from group 1 to group 2 and am happier for it.

If you don't mind my saying this, I think that until you are ready and

comfortable to take that leap you will. And that is only when it is

completely appropriate for you.

There are many people like Tami in the world. You can either try to

block them all out, or have in them in your life and enjoy them being

there, too. Again, that's only when it's appropriate for you.

Cheers...

[Guest guest]

Yes, you recognize me as a group one. have been all my life. The group 2 people

are probably happier. But I wouldn't want to be them. It strikes me as mindless.

Do you know the phrase: Happy little morons?

I'd rather have the awareness of a grp. 1 person and suffer the consequences

(unhappiness, anger etc.) than be a grp. 2. But that's just me.

Are you now always a grp. 2 or do you jump back and forth?

Vivian

Re: Black Hole Tami

> What annoys me is that several people took it really seriously and

wrote back absolutely " sweet " responses trying to " help " her with her

problem with her new boyfriend.

>

> Do you even know that she has a boyfriend, much less what their

intimate life is like (if there is one)? I think some of you were

duped and she is sitting back laughing her ass off.

>

> Vivian

Hi, Viv.

Yes. I can totally understand the irritation here for you. There are

at least two kinds of people who will read Tami's post:

1) The kind that will get offended by her outrageous antics and find

them inappropriate, and wouldn't grace them with a comment feeling for

sure that they are being the butt of some kind of joke

and

2) Those who take her post to heart, actually think of an answer, do

or don't give an honest reply to her questions, then go happily on

their way again. If they are being duped, they don't know it. How can

they prove it true either way? BUT they are happy. And maybe they even

laugh and chortle by her wacky antics as it adds even more joy to

their lives.

Either way, Tami gets a reaction out of both groups (even blocking her

is a reaction). Which group would make you, your mind, and your body

feel better?

I went from group 1 to group 2 and am happier for it.

If you don't mind my saying this, I think that until you are ready and

comfortable to take that leap you will. And that is only when it is

completely appropriate for you.

There are many people like Tami in the world. You can either try to

block them all out, or have in them in your life and enjoy them being

there, too. Again, that's only when it's appropriate for you.

Cheers...

[Guest guest]

>

> Yes, you recognize me as a group one. have been all my life. The

group 2 people are probably happier. But I wouldn't want to be them.

It strikes me as mindless. Do you know the phrase: Happy little morons?

> I'd rather have the awareness of a grp. 1 person and suffer the

consequences (unhappiness, anger etc.) than be a grp. 2. But that's

just me.

>

> Are you now always a grp. 2 or do you jump back and forth?

>

> Vivian

It all depends on the situation or person with which I'm dealing. I'm

very much a group 1 about many things. I'm also very much a group 2.

Imagine something that you take immense joy in, that you find no fault

with, that gives you great pleasure (it could be listening to your

favorite music, watching a favorite t.v. show, playing a game,

etc...). You are in group 2 at that point. Are you really mindless

while you are there enjoying yourself? I guarantee you, regarding what

YOU find joy in, SOMEONE ELSE is in group 1 about and can't stand it.

I'm understanding this process better. Being in group 1 isn't a 'bad'

thing, either. It just is what it is. I think you are where I was a

while back and, interestingly enough, it was what I wrote to B.K.

about for the Parlor... I'll reprint here for you... (Don't mean to

offend by reprinting that Parlor segment, I figure it's mine, too,

since I wrote it.) I put *** around her responses.

****

Dearest ,

I feel like I'm killing myself. Not in a physical sense but in an ego

sense. It's taken me almost thirty years to really love who I am with

all my idiosyncrasies, strangeness, flaws and beauty. Now, with

inquiry, I feel as if I am killing this person, this identity, that

I've finally come to love and it feels murderous. She (my

ego/identity) is beautiful but inquiry would take her away from me.

I am in a state of limbo. I feel I am shutting myself down to

everybody I love and would normally want to be around. I am in this

phase of lonely isolation and I refuse to bond to anybody. It's scary.

I feel I am stepping through a very dark door and not knowing what's

going on the other side.

In your previous Parlor newsletter you had mentioned, " There can be

grief, the experience of terrible loss, and loneliness, when mind

loses its identification as a human being... " I feel this is the point

where I am. I don't know if I want to lose this identification. Even

though she (my ego/identity) is flawed and causes herself stress,

there's a part of me (a larger perspective) that enjoys this life

exactly for those stresses and wants to hold onto it.

***Good to know that you think that you want to hold on to it, honey.

You may want to step back, test your theory, and be gentle as you look

deeper into " Is it true? " Just notice as you look at it, and again, be

gentle. Don't murder yourself, love yourself as you slowly continue to

inquire when it feels right to you. I have learned through inquiry, to

love everything that I ever believed me to be. I wasn't murdered, I,

as I believed me to be, just simply ceased to exist. Waking up to

yourself is a dear and kinder thing, and a bit shocking at first, and

eventually there is no one to be shocked, there is laughter, and it's

all okay, it's a good thing that I found, a good thing that I was left

with. I was left with you, angel, wonderful, wonderful you.***

Mistaken identity or not, if I lose her, what do I have?

***You get to find out, without control, no plan, no scheme, no

investment, nothing to lose, ever. No investment, no anger, no

suffering, no sadness. One of my sons lost his identity today. He was

the man who could walk, run, and get around from place to place, and

today he is the man who cannot. He is the man peeing in a bottle from

his hospital bed at Cedars Sinai Hospital. As I write this, I am

sitting at his bedside, somehow he has survived a motorcycle crash

that could easily have killed him. He is just out of surgery, and we

are laughing at the options open to him. What will his life look like

after this " accident " ? He is forced now to live his life differently,

and he has little clue how to do it. As we explore a whole new

imagined life for him and know that we have no way of knowing what

that would really be, we are loving the options that he never had any

reason to look at before the crash. The unknowable is very exciting

when you know that you can't know even when you think that you do.

What will fill the space of his life now? He sees clearly, lying in

bed, what he can do and what he can't do now, which isn't much, and he

gets to find out about life and what he can do and what he can't do

later as it becomes his now in each moment. He will live out the

mystery and watch as life comes to live him. In this moment he is

sleeping, full of OxyContin and some other pain-killing drug. Like any

other moment in his life, he is being done.***

I see what you have written and I feel I am making a choice between

this woman whom I've been in one hand and a mindless static creature

in the other.

***Wow! I would question that, turn it around, and see what is true.***

I want to keep her: as a role, a costume, an interface with reality. I

guess that's what I've always been, just unknown to me until now.

***Very good, angel. Sounds a bit friendlier. Very exciting, and do

you love her yet? If the answer is no, then you don't really know this

façade, this role you call costume.***

But I want to keep her and have her life. Right now I just don't feel

prepared to cast her away to take on this mindlessness.

***Mindlessness doesn't cast anything away, angel. I would question

your beliefs about mindlessness and gently begin again to live what's

left.***

I would love your thoughts on this. Thank you so much for all you have

been able to facilitate in my life. I am truly happier beyond what

I've ever expected before, I just don't feel ready for this next step...

Ever yours in truth,

Hypegia

[Reprinted from the April 2006 Parlor Newsletter]

[Guest guest]

Dear

Please don't mention my name again

Find yourself another snake to play with

T

-- Re: Black Hole Tami

> > >

> > >

> > > Are you saying that has better credibility than Tami, is

that

> > > your point?

> > >

> > > My personal point boils down to this: Both and Tami have

the

> > > same story in my eyes, equal credibility to move the work.

> > > doesn't have a 'better grasp on reality' than Tami. I completely

> > > understand if that's your story, because that was mine before,

too.

> > >

> >

> > My 2 cents

> >

> > This is a wonderful example of level confusion. Yes, from the

> > perspective of God, Tami and have equal credibility.

> >

> > However, from where we are in the dream has a far better

grasp

> > on reality than Tami. The fact that discovered the Work,

has

> > written several books about it and conducts schools to teach it,

> > would seem to indicate to me that her grasp on reality is fairly

> > good. Can the same be said of Tami? No, I don't think so. In the

> > dream there seems to me to be different levels of sleepiness.

Most

> > normal people are quite asleep. A few who study spiritual texts

may

> > be slowly awakening. Then there are the very few like or

Jesus

> > who have fully awakened, and now appear in the dream to help us

> > awaken.

> >

> > The distinction between and Tami does not exist in ultimate

> > reality, but in the dream there are levels of awakening which

cannot

> > be discounted. is very much " awake " in the dream as

evidenced

> > by her speech and conduct, Tami on the other hand seems to be

quite

> > asleep given her current speech and behaviour. Sure she may have

> > moments of clarity as do we all, but overall she is mostly asleep!

> >

> > Have a beautiful day

> >

> >

> > " So, I say, question what you believe and love where you're at.

> > There's nothing to fear but what we believe. " Byron

> >

>