Re: OT; What should a seven year old girl wear..

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/2001 11:47:26 AM Eastern Standard Time,

bunnytiner@... writes:

> I just thought the outfit was a mite sophisticated for seven. I rather like

> little girls to look like little girls. And Sophie herself preferred the

> pink kitten shirt...

>

> I know I am critical as anything of Lou so perhaps I am being unfair.

>

> Salli

>

>

>

I don't think that is unfair Salli.

Coming from a man's perspective, I probably am and will be in the future,

very concious and overprotective of Abbie. If her personality remains the

same, she will attract all sorts of characters, since she loves just about

everyone.

I, like you, believe that little girls should dress as such.

On Holloween, I was at the bank...it's in a local food store....and there was

a line. While I waited, I saw a a young girl, about 9-10, dressed like

Brittaney Spears, complete with a belly button ring, mid drift etc. I was

sickened. Mom was standing next to her, very proudly.

I just can't see that as my style, or an innocent little girl's style.

In these 4 short years of being a parent, I know time goes by very quickly

and there is plenty of time for my daughter to dress as she wishes....I'm in

no hurry for my baby girl to grow up..it will happen fast enough. There is

no need in me rushing things.

Ron

[Guest guest]

a black shiny skirt with a slit, a leopard print top, and black

tights. ...

That sounds like an outfit I'd have worn when I was an exotic dancer,

Salli.

I agree with you entirely. Little girls do NOT need to wear skirts

with slit in them. The shirt, well, leopard print in and of itself

isn't a problem, but the cut of the shirt might be. Stand your ground

Mama!!!

[Guest guest]

this is wrong on so many levels...

first of all, SHE didn't want to change. he has absolutely no right to come into

your house and tell your children what to wear. if they look good and are clean

and such, which i am SURE they are, then he should let them be.

second of all, if he had something that he really wanted her to wear, he should

have given it to her BEFORE she was already all dressed and ready to go.

third of all, and this is the most upsetting, but what interest does he have in

sophie? why does he consistantly choose her over the other children? why does he

think she would look " better " dressed in more mature clothes? i could be

overstepping my boundaries on this one, but it's just something that has struck

me time and time again, but now even moreso.

i hope it's nothing. i hope he's just too shallow to see that other people have

worthwhile opinions besides himself. but seriously salli, i would at least

consider the idea that MAYBE there is something more going on.

" Isn't it wonderful how each of us on this earth was created just a little bit

different? " - Linus

" I gave up trying to understand people long ago. Now I just let them try to

understand me. " - Snoopy

[Guest guest]

> this is wrong on so many levels...

I felt that too.

>

> first of all, SHE didn't want to change. he has absolutely no right to

come into your house and tell your children what to wear. if they look good

and are clean and such, which i am SURE they are, then he should let them

be.

Well, he has always had a big thing about how people are dressed. He really

really cares. And his idea of appropriate is kind of strange sometimes; for

instance of all the Scout leaders on the whitewater canoe trip that

went on with him last summer, he alone wore flowered Hawaiian

shirts. The rest of them all wore Scout T-shirts. I have always felt that,

while he always looked very neat, he was off to some degree. He is very

very picky about clothes; my kids have been sent back over and over again to

be changed and when he takes Robbie out with him, he brings a complete

change of clothes for him, pants, shirt, even shoes and socks, as if what I

put him in (hand me downs, I'll grant you, as I think dressing up two year

olds is silly for the most part) is unsuitable. I am not terribly

interested in clothes myself so I think it is just one of those ways of

criticizing me.

>

> second of all, if he had something that he really wanted her to wear, he

should have given it to her BEFORE she was already all dressed and ready to

go.

Yeah. She had had some trouble finding something she wanted to wear too as

it was laundry day and things were in the washer and the dryer...

>

> third of all, and this is the most upsetting, but what interest does he

have in sophie? why does he consistantly choose her over the other children?

simply HATES this part. He is so angry that Lou doesn't seem to

find him fun or want to do things with him besides planning events for him

and dropping him off at them. Lou has often said that he would take Sophie

alone because " She needs to get away from you boys, " when, in fact, Sophie

has many friends and is out of the house with them much of the afternoon

after school most days. She must have ten or twelve kids' houses that she

visits in our immediate neighborhood. needs to get out much more.

Enrique would not cross the street with Lou, but then he wouldn't cross the

street with anyone else either, LOL.

why does he think she would look " better " dressed in more mature clothes?

????????????? And I don't like it.

i could be overstepping my boundaries on this one, but it's just something

that has struck me time and time again, but now even moreso.

If you have been noticing that, I have not been trying to give that

impression so I imagine what you are noticing is quite real. It bugs me

too.

> i hope it's nothing. i hope he's just too shallow to see that other people

have worthwhile opinions besides himself. but seriously salli, i would at

least consider the idea that MAYBE there is something more going on.

>

I am a bit worried about it. Any ideas on good ways to investigate this

issue?

Salli

[Guest guest]

> If you have been noticing that, I have not been trying to give that impression

so I imagine what you are noticing is quite real. It bugs me too.

I am a bit worried about it. Any ideas on good ways to investigate this issue?

Salli <

salli,

that i don't know. i really wish this wasn't happening to you on top of

everything else. the only think i can think of, at the moment, is to just ask

sophie outright. ask her if there's anything that daddy has done to make her

uncomfortable, especially when they are alone together. you don't have to get

into specifics if that's too much for her, but you might get a better impression

by asking her personally. it is also quite possible that the boys know something

that they aren't telling you, altho i kind of think they would tell you

anything. as for confronting lou, i think you know that would be a big mistake

unless you had REAL evidence. i sure wish you luck and i sure hope i am wrong.

love gina

" Isn't it wonderful how each of us on this earth was created just a little bit

different? " - Linus

" I gave up trying to understand people long ago. Now I just let them try to

understand me. " - Snoopy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/01 10:23:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,

parenting_autism writes:

> second of all, if he had something that he really wanted her to wear, he

> should have given it to her BEFORE she was already all dressed and ready to

> go.

>

>

This is a combined response from Barb and Jim

Barb:

Can we say RAILROADED?????

I am with on this one.

Rather than ask the question that might get me

in trouble, (which is Who the heck is this guy?)

I will ask " excuse me, who pray tell is Lou? "

Jim:

If that idiot took one picture of that little girl

in that outfit I would personally break his neck,

this makes the hair on my neck stand.

Barb:

Stick to your instincts, Salli, you have great ones.

Jim:

Barb talking for Jim

You don't want to know what he said next.

Please don't get mad at his response,

he is very touchy about subjects like this.

Barb

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/2001 8:05:52 PM Eastern Standard Time,

IBSourMouse@... writes:

> This is a combined response from Barb and Jim

>

> Barb:

> Can we say RAILROADED?????

> I am with on this one.

>

> Rather than ask the question that might get me

> in trouble, (which is Who the heck is this guy?)

> I will ask " excuse me, who pray tell is Lou? "

>

> Jim:

> If that idiot took one picture of that little girl

> in that outfit I would personally break his neck,

> this makes the hair on my neck stand.

>

> Barb:

> Stick to your instincts, Salli, you have great ones.

>

> Jim:

>

Jim...you need to post here...I like your style

Maybe we could start some kind of autism commando unit....

lol

Ron...who continues to crack himself up

[Guest guest]

> I know I am critical as anything of Lou so perhaps I am being

unfair.

>

Absolutely not. You were right on the money. A seven year old girl

should look like a seven year old girl. Pink shirts with kitties on

them is much more fitting than what Stinky Lou brought. I don't

think that seven year old girls should dress in things that 27 year

old ladies wear, which includes things like shiny black skirts with

slits and leopard print tops.

What size is Sophie? I have lots of lovely dresses from the girls

that I saved thinking that one of our future children would be

another girl. They were not, so the dresses hang.

Even though my twelve and fourteen year olds are wearing ladies 12s

and are taller than me we still insist they look like twelve and

fourteen year olds. It can be done. Lou's selection of attire was

way out of bounds for a seven year old, or for a seventeen year old

for that matter, but then I guess we are somewhat old fashioned too.

who very much agrees with Salli

[Guest guest]

> that i don't know. i really wish this wasn't happening to you on top of

everything else. the only think i can think of, at the moment, is to just

ask sophie outright. ask her if there's anything that daddy has done to make

her uncomfortable, especially when they are alone together. you don't have

to get into specifics if that's too much for her, but you might get a better

impression by asking her personally. it is also quite possible that the boys

know something that they aren't telling you, altho i kind of think they

would tell you anything. as for confronting lou, i think you know that would

be a big mistake unless you had REAL evidence. i sure wish you luck and i

sure hope i am wrong.

Well, Sophie and I talked and I don't think there is a serious problem.

Don't know for sure though; pretty hard to know for sure. She sleeps in his

bed when she stays at his house, but, frankly, we have always been a family

bed family. So....I actually do think it is more inappropriate for a little

girl to share a bed with a father than for a nursing mother to share a bed

with little boys, especially since the little boys are younger, but I am not

sure I will persuade many others. He has a tiny apartment with only one

bed.

I asked her if Daddy bothered her or made her uncomfortable and she said he

just slept. Lou is a very good sleeper, I used to tell him he was a gifted

sleeper so actually I can believe that. And I did not get bad feelings when

I was talking to her but I am still a bit concerned. I'll have to keep

talking to Sophie a bit off and on.

Salli

[Guest guest]

Lou is an idiot.

Kerri

OT; What should a seven year old girl wear..

Lou and I used to go dancing together, country dancing. Not square dancing

though sometimes they would do some square dances but English country dancing.

We were quite good at it; we were on a demonstration team of dancers and Lou was

on the board of the local country dance society. I don't go to the dances any

more though I loved them, because he goes as he is still on the board. I

wouldn't be comfortable.

[Guest guest]

> Well, Sophie and I talked and I don't think there is a serious problem. Don't

know for sure though; pretty hard to know for sure. She sleeps in his bed when

she stays at his house, but, frankly, we have always been a family bed family.

So....I actually do think it is more inappropriate for a little girl to share a

bed with a father than for a nursing mother to share a bed with little boys,

especially since the little boys are younger, but I am not sure I will persuade

many others. He has a tiny apartment with only one bed.

I asked her if Daddy bothered her or made her uncomfortable and she said he just

slept. Lou is a very good sleeper, I used to tell him he was a gifted sleeper

so actually I can believe that. And I did not get bad feelings when I was

talking to her but I am still a bit concerned. I'll have to keep talking to

Sophie a bit off and on.

Salli <

well, i'm glad you didn't get too bad of a feeling when talking to her, but i

would definitely keep on top of it.

i was wondering that about the sleeping arrangements, but my kids often sleep

with me, so...

but while we're on that subject, i'll ask a few questions...

what does he sleep in? would she prefer not to sleep with him? does he INSIST

that she sleep with him? do the other kids ever sleep there and if so, where do

they sleep?

maybe somebody else who's actually been through something like this could give

you some sure signs to look for, just in case. i have to admit, i'm just kind of

guessing really

" Isn't it wonderful how each of us on this earth was created just a little bit

different? " - Linus

" I gave up trying to understand people long ago. Now I just let them try to

understand me. " - Snoopy

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 11/11/2001 10:47:27 AM Central Standard Time,

bunnytiner@... writes:

> This is what he had brought: a black shiny skirt with a slit, a leopard

> print top, and black tights. He said she would be cooler in those (both

> the kitten shirt and the leopard print shirt were turtlenecks; the leopard

> print, if anything, was thicker as it was from an expensive store).

>

> He asked Sophie if she wanted to change, but she did not. She likes to

> look pretty and leopard prints and black didn't strike her as pretty. But

> Lou insisted and Sophie changed into his outfit and they went to the dance

> together.

>

> I just thought the outfit was a mite sophisticated for seven. I rather

> like little girls to look like little girls. And Sophie herself preferred

> the pink kitten shirt...

>

> I know I am critical as anything of Lou so perhaps I am being unfair

Salli,

I don't think you are being unfairly critical. The outfit sounds a little too

old in my opinion also. Why would he even care what she was wearing? I could

see if you had her dressed in dirty, torn clothes but I hardly think that is

the case. Besides, shouldn't Sophie have a say in what she is wearing to the

dance? He sounds like an idiot to me. No, a CONTROLLING idiot.

Tracey

mom to

4

Brynn 7mos

[Guest guest]

> I will ask " excuse me, who pray tell is Lou? " <

lou is salli's " ex " husband and father to the children. you will learn to know

and hate him as we all do. lou is, plain and simple, an ass.

" Isn't it wonderful how each of us on this earth was created just a little bit

different? " - Linus

" I gave up trying to understand people long ago. Now I just let them try to

understand me. " - Snoopy

[Guest guest]

> I know I am critical as anything of Lou so perhaps I am being unfair.

>

> Salli

Salli, snap out of it.

I don't think it's even in your nature to be UNFAIR.

That said - - hello?

Leopard print? Black " shiny " skirt? Like faux leather? Or satin?

OK whichever - - uh, I don't think so. Not for 7, and even for 17, I think

Shaun would strangle his child before letting her out in that kind of

attire, dance or not.

What the hell is Lou thinking?

(I know... I know... he's not.)

Why not just give her some fishnet stocking and black spiked stilletto heels

while he's at it, and take her Times Square? GEEZ, and exactly HOW is this

outfit appropriate for a country atmopshere? I love Shania Twain, but I

can't STAND the way she dresses. Perhaps Lou saw one of her videos? What

Lou forgets is that Shania is OLD?

Grace

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> third of all, and this is the most upsetting, but what interest does he

have in sophie? why does he consistantly choose her over the other children?

why does he think she would look " better " dressed in more mature clothes? i

could be overstepping my boundaries on this one, but it's just something

that has struck me time and time again, but now even moreso.

> i hope it's nothing. i hope he's just too shallow to see that other people

have worthwhile opinions besides himself. but seriously salli, i would at

least consider the idea that MAYBE there is something more going on.

>

Hmm......... well, although I can't speak for all of the Lou stories, as i

haven't heard all of them - - I can say that first, I have never gotten the

impression that his only interest is in Sophie as he seems to equally bug

all of his kids. I'm sure hanging out with Robbie is not as entertaining as

it would be with Sophie or . Putter thinks he's a rock. Enough

said there. Enrique? Well, Enrique is much more high maintenance than

Sophie or ...... you know?

So I think that if his interest in Sophie is more concentrated, that might

be why, in addition to the fact that she's the only daughter.

Second - - the impression I get of Lou is that he is too self-absorbed to

even think in that manner! He really doesn't seem to know much of anything

but himself, and his wants - - - except that his AS " tendencies " would imply

that he is probably also a stickler to " the rules " . Hopefully - - " one does

not touch his own daughter " is included amongst those rules.

On the off chance that is right though - - God help that man. I would

wait my turn in line to strangle him.

Grace

[Guest guest]

> Rather than ask the question that might get me

> in trouble, (which is Who the heck is this guy?)

> I will ask " excuse me, who pray tell is Lou? "

Barb, you are hilarious.

And you've gone and done it again. It's Salli's husband LOL.

Except... it's not such a shocker this time. And Salli is something a

little less than protective of Lou, LOL!!

Lou is the father to all of Salli's kids though. While he is a jerk and a

half - - - I have to give him credit - Putter is rather adorable.

Salli - - you don't have any secrets that might say otherwise, would you?

Grace

[Guest guest]

Lou is an idiot.

Kerri

while i read and agreed with EVERY other answer, I think Kerri sums it up

best!!!

, 40, Columbus, OH

Bipolar, Borderline Personality Disorder, and????

Mom to:

, 15, probably Bipolar

Annie, 12, so far so good!

JD, 8, Autism, severe ADHD, maybe bipolar, AND

my reason for getting out of bed each day!!!

[Guest guest]

> That sounds like something I would wear. But then, I am a gossip columnist for

the local scandal sheet. <

yes, and an adult!

" Isn't it wonderful how each of us on this earth was created just a little bit

different? " - Linus

" I gave up trying to understand people long ago. Now I just let them try to

understand me. " - Snoopy

[Guest guest]

> Lou is an idiot.

> Kerri

>

>

> while i read and agreed with EVERY other answer, I think Kerri sums it up

> best!!!

Yup. Short and to the point. What can I say, Kerri is ALWAYS right.

Salli who is often right too

[Guest guest]

>

>I know I am critical as anything of Lou so perhaps I am being unfair.

I don't think you are being unfair, and I don't think his outfit was

appropriate for seven. Besides, Sophie should wear what SHE wants. Bethany

has one leopard print shirt, but she just wears it around the house. I

don't think it's appropriate otherwise.

Amy h

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Hopefully - - " one does

> not touch his own daughter " is included amongst those rules.

I think it probably is. I have been asking questions off and on of Miss

Sophie, never more than one at a time so as to keep her suspicions low, and

she says for instance that he always wears pajamas.

Lou always slept naked and I am sure he still does. But not when his

daughter spends the night.

Interestingly enough, he did not send the clothes home with Sophie. He kept

them as he does Robbie's Daddy Outfit. He probably thought that I would

lose the clothes in the wash and believe me, I would have!

Sophie said she did not like the outfit. But she didn't tell him that.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> > Rather than ask the question that might get me

> > in trouble, (which is Who the heck is this guy?)

> > I will ask " excuse me, who pray tell is Lou? "

" Who the heck is this guy? " would not get you in ANY trouble THIS time.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> That sounds like something I would wear. In fact, it sounds like what I

wore

> on my birthday Friday night. Actually I had faux leopard fur at the neck

and

> wrists and everything else was black. But then, I am a gossip columnist

for

> the local scandal sheet.

> (No -- You're not being unfair.)

I admire and respect you, Sissi. But, no, I do not think I want my seven

year old to dress like you in your Brittany guise. Not sure I'd want my

seventeen year old to dress like that!

Salli

[Guest guest]

> Why not just give her some fishnet stocking and black spiked stilletto

heels

> while he's at it, and take her Times Square? GEEZ, and exactly HOW is

this

> outfit appropriate for a country atmopshere? I love Shania Twain, but I

> can't STAND the way she dresses. Perhaps Lou saw one of her videos? What

> Lou forgets is that Shania is OLD?

I am glad to hear that I am not alone in my feelings. I sent this

description to my Catholic list and I knew they would think the outfit

sounded awful (and besides Sophie is off-topic) but after I thought a bit, I

suddenly realized that I did value the opinions on this list and that

perhaps I was just being a bit conservative.

But it seemed all wrong to me, and even to Sophie.

Oh, and I'll mention the fishnet stockings and stiletto heels to Lou; can't

think how he overlooked them.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> appropriate for seven. Besides, Sophie should wear what SHE wants.

Bethany

> has one leopard print shirt, but she just wears it around the house. I

> don't think it's appropriate otherwise.

>

Sophie wanted Bethany to come to this dance with her but Lou said that he

did not know Bethany or her mother as if he was very very careful about who

his daughter knew.

Aren't you glad, Bethany didn't go?

I thought it was pretty funny since sometimes I don't find Lou fit company

for his own children.

Salli