Re: the other (one) is never my problem @ ander

[Guest guest]

Dear ,

> I understand. So if you don't wish to go on, just don't reply.

But I may reply, don't I . See, I am a " fan " of courtesy. Just

simple, genuine courtesy. To not say any word, is - to me - an act

that leaves a gap. I understand that people do it, but I like little

hints. Getting and giving of it.

I understand what you have written below. To me thinking along those

" lines " , as I had done till I said: " stop " did not bring me relief,

but really trouble. Sometimes I just need to stop for a while. That

does not mean that I give up or - in. But I step back and focus on

something else. Often, things and answers start to emerge in their own

timing. It's no use to force anything, I learned to let processes

unfold itself, naturally, like organically (organisch). Maybe I will

get to a point where I can nod, when someone says " if I think you/the

other is my problem, I'm insane " but it's not, where I am right now.

Even if we (humans) are rather similar, there are no two humans alike,

I've noticed. I understand that watching the thinking can lead to

greater understanding. I do and did it a lot.

What I mean with depression is not simply being down, or veeeery down.

What I experienced, and people around labeled (it) depression, was so

dramatic that it effected my life in a " pretty " threatening way,

finally it lead to the condition my body has now. I want no repetition

of that.

Perhaps I will pick up that thread again. We'll see.

Love and thanks! Rose

> Dear Rose,

>

> I understand. So if you don't wish to go on, just don't reply.

>

> For me analyzing thoughts is a very interesting thing: I try to

split them over and over to see what holds them together. Sometimes

when I notice discomfort, I want to find out where it comes from. So

far, I always notice I believe a thought. And sometimes I analyze them

even if there is no discomfort, out of pure interest.

>

>[...]

> So, be well,

>

[Guest guest]

Dear Rose,

>> I understand. So if you don't wish to go on, just don't reply.

> But I may reply, don't I . See, I am a " fan " of courtesy. Just

> simple, genuine courtesy. To not say any word, is - to me - an act

> that leaves a gap. I understand that people do it, but I like little

> hints. Getting and giving of it.

I hear you don't like gaps.

> I understand what you have written below. To me thinking along those

> " lines " , as I had done till I said: " stop " did not bring me relief,

> but really trouble.

Good you said " stop " .

I don't invite you to think along any lines. I invite you to

investigate your thoughts. Not the " why do I have them " , but the " how

do they work " . And at what part does the upset kick in. To focus on it.

It's a hard thing to do. And every time you focus and don't find that

point, you found a point where there's no upset. So it's worth it.

> Sometimes I just need to stop for a while.

Sure, we all do.

> That does not mean that I give up or - in.

Good that you know it.

> But I step back and focus on

> something else. Often, things and answers start to emerge in their own

> timing. It's no use to force anything, I learned to let processes

> unfold itself, naturally, like organically (organisch). Maybe I will

> get to a point where I can nod, when someone says " if I think you/the

> other is my problem, I'm insane " but it's not, where I am right now.

Yes.

> Even if we (humans) are rather similar, there are no two humans alike,

> I've noticed.

That, I don't understand.

> I understand that watching the thinking can lead to

> greater understanding. I do and did it a lot.

>

>

> What I mean with depression is not simply being down, or veeeery down.

> What I experienced, and people around labeled (it) depression, was so

> dramatic that it effected my life in a " pretty " threatening way,

People labeled it depression.

And what does that have to do with you?

People can label you a chicken, and as long as you don't believe it,

you may even laugh, out of your heart!

I believe you that you had depressions.

Notice what happens, whether you believe the thought: " I am a woman

that experienced a depression in some parts of my life " as opposed

(but not contradictory) to: " I am a woman that has not been depressed

most time of her life " .

Isolate that " depression " things.

I remember having cried for several days, where I couldn't take care

of the kids but stayed in self-pity the whole time. But I can't get

that feeling I had back then, back. Not unless I recall the thought I

believed back then and from there isolate the feeling I would have if

I believed that thought. And I also can remember lots of times within

this period where I have not cried.

But what a difference it makes, where I shift the focus.

> finally it lead to the condition my body has now.

And I hear you have a opinion about this condition.

If your body were in this condition for other reasons, who would

*you* be?

Let's say you traded your former body's condition to save someone's

life. How would your perspective regarding your body shift?

And let's go some further, let's get deep: What if that person

disregarded your act?

What if that person thinks this choice or act of yours was wrong or

unecessary?

What if that person thinks she would be better of if you had done

differently?

Explore how that feels, explore it real good.

And now:

What if that person would understand that you saved her life, and

love what you did for her and be eternally thankful to you?

Explore how THAT feels.

And now tell me where you're at, what you understood, if you feel any

different and what your perspective is, now.

And tell me also what you think of this imaginary person.

> I want no repetition of that.

And yet, it may come. If only in a dream.

Love,

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[Guest guest]

Dear Rose

> >> I understand. So if you don't wish to go on, just don't reply.

> > But I may reply, don't I . See, I am a " fan " of courtesy. Just

> > simple, genuine courtesy. To not say any word, is - to me - an

act

> > that leaves a gap. I understand that people do it, but I like

little

> > hints. Getting and giving of it.

> I hear you don't like gaps.

As I said, I like giving/getting hints and i can live with gaps. i

did not say i don't like gaps.

> > I understand what you have written below. To me thinking along

those " lines " , as I had done till I said: " stop " did not bring me

relief, but really trouble.

> Good you said " stop " .

> I don't invite you to think along any lines.

i didn't see an invitation at all. i see a conversation/an exchange.

I invite you to investigate your thoughts. Not the " why do I have

them " , but the " how do they work " .

*** i agree. and i do that not only with the work. when you observe

the movement of clouds you can see how they change, and you can

notice the thoughts which move through your mind.

i noticed that my mind (sometimes) comes up with some quite weird

thoughts. noticing that, i have that it mind while observing this

continous flow of thoughts. i don't put " importance " to all of them.

in fact, i strive to a " place " before all these thoughts. to a place

where i start to question the importance of most of them.

that brings me much more to a place where i am in balance.

the second thread i follow, is to look at the same old stories with

a new view. the setting of my childhood, what qualities did it offer

to me to develop/train/strengthen?

and then, when i look back to these events, what can i see today

that i haven't noticed, when i was in them, or when i was opposing

them later (saying that was " nasty " of him, her or whatever)

it's like dealing with an excel document. you search at different

times for different datas.

so in this way i still get benefits from these long gone events.

And at what part does the upset kick in. To focus on it.

i observe and focus (in) the mechanics. not the content. sometimes.

> It's a hard thing to do.

Is it?

> And every time you focus and don't find that point, you found a

point where there's no upset. So it's worth it.

well i noticed that things of " importance " tend to come back as long

as they do, whenever they " want " , till they don't come back.

> > Sometimes I just need to stop for a while.

> Sure, we all do.

***yes. i agree.

>

> > That does not mean that I give up or - in.

> Good that you know it.

i know it and i would not even need to express that in the form of

an information to you/others. i'll be evident.

> > But I step back and focus on

> > something else. Often, things and answers start to emerge in

their own

> > timing. It's no use to force anything, I learned to let processes

> > unfold itself, naturally, like organically (organisch). Maybe I

will get to a point where I can nod, when someone says " if I think

you/the other is my problem, I'm insane " but it's not, where I am

right now.

> Yes.

obviously.

the " funny " thing is, when i am in balance, i am more " able " to stay

open to whatever happens. the experiment with thinking along " those

lines " showed myself how i thighten, get the feeling of a heavy

body, loose strength to move it, start to become harmful to myself,

less careful and so on.

it becomes a soap-bubble of inner conflict in an escalating way.

taking away my cling to these thoughts, to the belief that i must

follow them, i discover that i move back into a balanced flow and

insights open up naturally. without chasing for them.

and without inner turmoil/conflict.

so i tend to move along the peaceful way.

> > Even if we (humans) are rather similar, there are no two humans

alike, I've noticed.

> That, I don't understand.

i have forgotten why i wrote that. the moment i wrote it, it was

clear. no problem to me, to you neither i think. : )

>

> > I understand that watching the thinking can lead to

> > greater understanding. I do and did it a lot.

> >

> >

> > What I mean with depression is not simply being down, or veeeery

down. What I experienced, and people around labeled (it) depression,

was so dramatic that it effected my life in a " pretty " threatening

way, people labeled it depression.

>

> And what does that have to do with you?

i had to deal with the ones i loved, and which believed into the

label other had given to rose's condition. i did not only have to

deal with my own inner condition, but what people started to do in

relation to rose.

> People can label you a chicken, and as long as you don't believe

it, you may even laugh, out of your heart!

*** sure. that's another aspect in this.

>

> I believe you that you had depressions.

*** whatever.

i was out of balance.

>

> Notice what happens, whether you believe the thought: " I am a

woman that experienced a depression in some parts of my life " as

opposed (but not contradictory) to: " I am a woman that has not been

depressed most time of her life " .

simply the use of " my " and " her " makes slight differences.

i notice, i sometimes follow thoughts, put weight/importance into

them, like addiced or like believing that i have to.

if i question that belief, that i MUST put value on them, i

experience moments of " game over " .

> Isolate that " depression " things.

>

> I remember having cried for several days, where I couldn't take

care

> of the kids but stayed in self-pity the whole time. But I can't

get that feeling I had back then, back. Not unless I recall the

thought I believed back then and from there isolate the feeling I

would have if I believed that thought. And I also can remember lots

of times within this period where I have not cried.

i understand.

i can recall the memories of the " dramatic times " i can recall

the " thoughtlines " and i can recall how i felt.

i remember that i lost controll over my thoughts. i was not able to

move away from them anylonger. i was convinced that the " nightmare "

was the only movie that exists. i was not able to put another DVD

into my mind. i experienced that as a tremendous " failiure " i felt

more exposed to that, then i did to my father. it was so frightening

that i could not surrender but only give in. i had been struggling

hard and in any way i was able to and was knowing about, with that,

then i gave in. it was the only choice i had left. in that way you

could even call it a surrender.

>

> But what a difference it makes, where I shift the focus.

yep. when you are in a condition where you still can shift. : )

>

> > finally it lead to the condition my body has now.

> And I hear you have a opinion about this condition.

well that's what you hear. that's not what i say. i say it sometimes

is quite exhausting to live with such a body. sometimes i have no

physical energy left to move it, back from the toilet into the

wheelchair. so i sit on the loo, for an hour or so, waiting till i

have a little power left to move it back. that's ok. to me my whole

pace has changed. i live with " extraordinary " freedom to just live

that way moment to moment. sure i am married. and my darling earns

the most of our money income. so i don't need to push myself, you

could say. but i have lived that way always. i tried to adapt to the

rules, and only found: i am unable to, in the long run.

>

> If your body were in this condition for other reasons, who would

> *you* be?

>

> Let's say you traded your former body's condition to save

someone's life.

you know what? in a way i even did that.

*** How would your perspective regarding your body shift?

ah! i still could blame myself: you should have found a better way

to succeed. strangely enough i am not so much into that direction

and with the experience of " thoughtlines " from lately (my dad) i

even more tend to not think so.

i sometimes wonder if i shall feel embarrassed over that whole

scenario etc. but i cannot find that i really have to.

in a way it was just life living itself, you see. i am see observer

of the physical, emotional, and thought aspects in that scenario. in

a continous flow.

>

> And let's go some further, let's get deep: What if that person

> disregarded your act?

should i blame them? hm. i can't find that within me.

they did not ask me for doing what i did. so i am the one who is in

charge.

> What if that person thinks this choice or act of yours was wrong

or unecessary?

that's fine for me.

> What if that person thinks she would be better of if you had done

> differently?

i agree.

>

> Explore how that feels, explore it real good.

i have done that before. it's not new to me. i write it down for you.

> And now:

> What if that person would understand that you saved her life, and

> love what you did for her and be eternally thankful to you?

oh boy that sounds like glueing candy. boooh. not nice. )

>

> Explore how THAT feels.

>

>

> And now tell me where you're at, what you understood, if you feel

any different and what your perspective is, now.

living with this body is in a continous change. it was so before

going through the last sentences and i suppose it will continue to

do that from this very moment on.

i still learn to live with that body, for it itself is in a change.

it doesn't like red wine anylonger. a little bit and my buttock

feels like after a treatment from my father for 3 days. what " funny "

repetition. and it's only red wine.

> And tell me also what you think of this imaginary person.

as i don't know which imaginary person you have in mind i feel free

to chose one myself.

let's take my father.

in a way he was like a rigorous master in a monestary. when i failed

to follow the rules, i experienced consequences. that was in a way

his kind of love. the world did not tick the way he wanted to force

it to do, and he denied noticing that. i was able to handle that

when i was a kid. life lived itself.

nowadays, i notice, i sometimes want to force life to be like i want

it to. where's the difference to my dad? the same stupidness. the

same foolish game of the mind. i fall into it's " trap " ha ha.

is a pedestrians life more worthy, than a paralysed body's one?

I don't think so.

alive is alive.

when i am in balance, the marvelling about the beauty of a tulip is

an expression/movement of life as well as having spasms or " unhappy "

relationships. when i am in balance i am willing to open up to much

more. when i am in a thightend condition i tend to start to oppose.

and so on and so on.

: ) love

not revised (so it's the long version, not sorry ; )) )

>

> > I want no repetition of that.

> And yet, it may come. If only in a dream.

>

> Love,

>

>

>

>

>

>

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