Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 , Have you taken it well that they haven't taken it well? They should take it well. Is that true? Turnarounds? People shouldn't discriminate. Is that true? Can you find a turnaround in that? Earlier today I did a worksheet on how greedy my bosses are. That they should supply toilet paper for the staff and customer bathrooms. Then I did the turnaround 'I am greedy' and it suddenly became clear that I could go buy toilet paper. But I didn't want to use my money to do that. Hello! Who's the greedy one here? Aren't I doing exactly what I don't like them doing? I am finding all my unhappiness about how things are come from my own thoughts. The unexamined ones. The universal scenario is seeing the universe and knowing it is a reflection of my thoughts. Put down the magnifying glass, pick up the mirror. Human Rights Issues? Maybe you're denying others the right to be human, to make their own choices. The truth is so beautiful. Sincerely, Poopy Unwiped Butt > > Ok, now for another challenge. But first, a bit of prefacing: > > I have worked for many years in various activism movements. It is my passion and my pleasure to serve those with less of a voice than me. All of my work in these endeavors is volunteer. I also include my children in my activist work, when appropriate. > > So, I have watched many innocent people, including children, suffer from the effects of ignorance and bigotry. I have worked to help them maintain or build their integrity, to be empowered in their heritage and to debate against the voices filled with hate (i.e. racism/classism/sexism/etc.). > > I am now wondering how The Work can be applied to these causes. > > > Incidentally, I have already addressed my committees with the work of inquiry. So far, they have not taken to it very well. (They do tend to see me as the New Age wingnut in the group, as I am an aromatherapist and my husband is an astrologer. I guess maybe we're not the norm in activist circles.) They are pointing out how The Work makes no sense, for example, for a person of color (POC) to do against the claims of inferiority that are made by racists. If a POC is feeling hurt by a comment of ignorance/hate, is it b/c there's TRUTH in that, according to The Work? If a child born into a religion that is discriminated against is treated unfairly in his/her class at school due to the unspoken double standards that are very prevalent - is that b/c they're seeing their reflection? If a POC experiences racial profiling by a law enforcement authority - is it, again, b/c they've projected that? What about a woman who is discriminated against in her workplace - where a man > who has worked less hours and with less fervor is given more income b/c he is a man and she is encouraged to focus more on her sex-appeal than the quality of her performance? > > All of these are universal scenarios. > > Is there a way The Work can actually be RELEVANT and USEFUL for these people, in your opinions? > > > Thank you all, in advance, for any thoughts you share on this subject. > > > > > With love, > > ~ > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Thanks for your reply, . Actually, I am fine with their unacceptance. I have done The Work on that several times, already, b/c they have not accepted several of my areas of interest (as mentioned in my previous post). I am more concerned with how/if The Work can help those who are discriminated against - how it is relevant to their plight. I would like to offer inquiry worksheets to some of the people in need that I work with, but only if I first can see how they would be helpful, beforehand. I would not want a POC who is discriminated against due to the color of their skin, for example, to do the worksheet and be left thinking that the discrimination is their own projection. B/c, truthfully, the " it's all in your head " response is the common bigoted one. POC have been told that it's their own projection, in various ways, for centuries. " You're reading into it " " You're over-reacting " " There's no double standards " etc. Their truths, their experiences, have been hushed, belittled, minimized, and swept under the rug. These are the responses they have consistently and universally received from the dominant paradigm. These are the issues we activists work to change. It has been shown that it is not only strength in numbers that boosts the vocal power of these marginalized groups, but also the advocacy of people who have powers that those groups don't possess. That is where I come in. And, since I'm an advocate, I have to be very careful about the concepts that I introduce to my clients - they are very impressionable and in great need of my support. They tend to trust whatever I say/do, so I work hard to uphold my integrity in its strongest form. wrote: , Have you taken it well that they haven't taken it well? They should take it well. Is that true? Turnarounds? People shouldn't discriminate. Is that true? Can you find a turnaround in that? Earlier today I did a worksheet on how greedy my bosses are. That they should supply toilet paper for the staff and customer bathrooms. Then I did the turnaround 'I am greedy' and it suddenly became clear that I could go buy toilet paper. But I didn't want to use my money to do that. Hello! Who's the greedy one here? Aren't I doing exactly what I don't like them doing? I am finding all my unhappiness about how things are come from my own thoughts. The unexamined ones. The universal scenario is seeing the universe and knowing it is a reflection of my thoughts. Put down the magnifying glass, pick up the mirror. Human Rights Issues? Maybe you're denying others the right to be human, to make their own choices. The truth is so beautiful. Sincerely, Poopy Unwiped Butt > > Ok, now for another challenge. But first, a bit of prefacing: > > I have worked for many years in various activism movements. It is my passion and my pleasure to serve those with less of a voice than me. All of my work in these endeavors is volunteer. I also include my children in my activist work, when appropriate. > > So, I have watched many innocent people, including children, suffer from the effects of ignorance and bigotry. I have worked to help them maintain or build their integrity, to be empowered in their heritage and to debate against the voices filled with hate (i.e. racism/classism/sexism/etc.). > > I am now wondering how The Work can be applied to these causes. > > > Incidentally, I have already addressed my committees with the work of inquiry. So far, they have not taken to it very well. (They do tend to see me as the New Age wingnut in the group, as I am an aromatherapist and my husband is an astrologer. I guess maybe we're not the norm in activist circles.) They are pointing out how The Work makes no sense, for example, for a person of color (POC) to do against the claims of inferiority that are made by racists. If a POC is feeling hurt by a comment of ignorance/hate, is it b/c there's TRUTH in that, according to The Work? If a child born into a religion that is discriminated against is treated unfairly in his/her class at school due to the unspoken double standards that are very prevalent - is that b/c they're seeing their reflection? If a POC experiences racial profiling by a law enforcement authority - is it, again, b/c they've projected that? What about a woman who is discriminated against in her workplace - where a man > who has worked less hours and with less fervor is given more income b/c he is a man and she is encouraged to focus more on her sex-appeal than the quality of her performance? > > All of these are universal scenarios. > > Is there a way The Work can actually be RELEVANT and USEFUL for these people, in your opinions? > > > Thank you all, in advance, for any thoughts you share on this subject. > > > > > With love, > > ~ > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Doing the work doesn't take care of people abusing me. It does take care of me abusing me. And of me abusing them. And by that, to get a clear mind. Is the woman in your example applying for more income? Did she ask? Does she really work hard enough to get it, and does she really deserve it? Whom would you give a raise? Someone who is angry about his colleagues earning more? Or someone who is trying to excel, without regards to others? I don't know in what positions your clients are. And I haven't ever met anyone who really was innocent. However, back to your question: The work helps to deal with your own issues of anger and fear. It helps you to get from a position of enduring to a position of taking action. Love, Am 18.04.2006 um 18:30 schrieb Ironstone: > Ok, now for another challenge. But first, a bit of prefacing: > > I have worked for many years in various activism movements. It > is my passion and my pleasure to serve those with less of a voice > than me. All of my work in these endeavors is volunteer. I also > include my children in my activist work, when appropriate. > > So, I have watched many innocent people, including children, > suffer from the effects of ignorance and bigotry. I have worked to > help them maintain or build their integrity, to be empowered in > their heritage and to debate against the voices filled with hate > (i.e. racism/classism/sexism/etc.). > > I am now wondering how The Work can be applied to these causes. > > Incidentally, I have already addressed my committees with the > work of inquiry. So far, they have not taken to it very well. > (They do tend to see me as the New Age wingnut in the group, as I > am an aromatherapist and my husband is an astrologer. I guess > maybe we're not the norm in activist circles.) They are pointing > out how The Work makes no sense, for example, for a person of color > (POC) to do against the claims of inferiority that are made by > racists. If a POC is feeling hurt by a comment of ignorance/hate, > is it b/c there's TRUTH in that, according to The Work? If a child > born into a religion that is discriminated against is treated > unfairly in his/her class at school due to the unspoken double > standards that are very prevalent - is that b/c they're seeing > their reflection? If a POC experiences racial profiling by a law > enforcement authority - is it, again, b/c they've projected that? > What about a woman who is discriminated against in her workplace - > where a man > who has worked less hours and with less fervor is given more > income b/c he is a man and she is encouraged to focus more on her > sex-appeal than the quality of her performance? > > All of these are universal scenarios. > > Is there a way The Work can actually be RELEVANT and USEFUL for > these people, in your opinions? > > > Thank you all, in advance, for any thoughts you share on this > subject. > > > > > With love, > > ~ ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 > > So, I have watched many innocent people, including children, suffer from the effects of ignorance and bigotry. I have worked to help them maintain or build their integrity, to be empowered in their heritage and to debate against the voices filled with hate (i.e. racism/classism/sexism/etc.). > > I am now wondering how The Work can be applied to these causes. > > Interview: Getting Down to The Work CATALYST interviews Byron By Bond Byron came to Salt Lake in February to conduct a weekend intensive on The Work. After the Friday evening lecture, the question of how social activism relates (or doesn't relate) to 's system was raised among a group of CATALYST writers in attendance: How can we call foul when 's four questions and their turnarounds point the finger right back at us? What do we do when we see that someone or something suffers unnecessarily and that suffering needs to be brought to awareness? On Sunday night, gathered around a Salt Lake City kitchen table, we asked her. CATALYST: How does The Work work in regard to political and social activism? KATIE: The way The Work plays a role is, as you know, by helping us question what we believe. The Work is four questions and a turnaround. The answers that the questions evoke -- that's where the power is. As we question what we believe, the mind begins to open. As the answers come to the surface, we clearly see the unconscious beliefs that we've been holding all our lives without question -- without ever asking ourselves if the belief is really true. Once we can see our beliefs as just thoughts, we can choose them, or not -- consciously. We don't act out of misunderstanding or lack of education. Our actions aren't based on fear. When we question what we believe, we can make incredible changes from this moment now. The moment doesn't actually change, yet our experience of it can change completely. To regret the past or fear the future is to leave the gift of now. That's where everything happens -- from this moment now; it's the only place change can occur. If I'm fearful, it's because I believe what I think. That kind of stress also takes energy away from the good that I could do. So, the Work has everything to do with political activism. CATALYST: Part of me understands this, but there's also a part that believes that if I'm to make a determination that something's unjust in this world, I have to make a judgment, I have to point to that thing and say it's a problem. KATIE: It is a problem. There's nothing we can do about it because what you're talking about is already over. You're talking about a past. So that past is very educational. It's like 'I see what doesn't work. Now what can I do from here?' So you question what you believe about the past and then you fearlessly begin to interact and to make change. Positive change. Radical positive change. If I see people as opposing what is good, and I oppose them because they oppose, then we're all just opposing. But if I can understand that it's all the story of the past and ask what I can do from here, then I can understand everything the opponent is saying. I can see the wisdom in it. I can see why they would see it that way. I can see all the benefits of it. And because I'm listening to them from my position, I can see more clearly how we can work together to make change. If I'm not opposing them and their ideas, then I can add or subtract and we can work together. CATALYST: It sounds like you're saying that the energy that's inherent in creating a duality -- that kind of friction, my idea against your idea -- actually inhibits change. KATIE: Yes. If I'm in a state of war, as I oppose, people oppose what I believe. War is war. So, I'm for just listening, weighing, educating myself and fearlessly moving forward from this moment now. Catalyst: I'm still unclear. How can you determine if something is wrong or hurtful if you're completely in alignment with the beliefs of all sides? I'm afraid that this kind of focus would render a person motionless in a cozy bubble of self-inquiry. KATIE: Yeah. Okay. If I see that something is terrible out there, or something needs to change and if I question it and turn it around, then I can ask what it is in me that needs to change, especially around that situation. A whole lot is revealed there. It leaves me with a clear ability to make change. CATALYST: So you just see where you have investment of belief systems that would inhibit your own action? KATIE: Absolutely! You've got it! You might say, " How dare they do that? " Well, how dare I do what I just did which is to judge them? How can I educate myself about where they're coming from or why they see things the way they do? I mean, how dare I judge them without knowing them? You know, people look at Bush and he has all kinds of information that we don't have. I've heard people say they see his face on television and they just want to vomit, they're so frightened about where they perceive he's taking us. Okay, so, what can I do? Well, I can educate myself. I can never have the education that he has because he's in the center of the information circle -- as far as we know. CATALYST: But Bush is renowned for being the President who doesn't want to know things. KATIE: And he still knows more about what's going on than we do. CATALYST: Maybe. KATIE: Well, I don't know that he does, but I tend to want to believe that he does get some of the information from the people who work for him. And that information, it appears, is held so tightly, that it appears we don't get much of it anymore. CATALYST: Well, he says that he gets most of his information from God. KATIE: Yes. So I can form an opinion, and I think, " I don't have his information. " Where I'm coming from is " Can I absolutely know that it's true? " In my own life, I get all the information and it falls apart. Reality is like that. CATALYST: Do you think there's a reason that the collective consciousness invented Bush for us? KATIE: No, you have [table erupts with laughter]. You've invented him! Everyone has a different Bush. No two people have the same Bush. Say, for example, Bush calls me to go to war. If he says, " , you have to go, " I'll say, " Thank you for asking, and no. " And if he threatens to put me in jail if I don't go, then I'll simply say, " I hear that and what's on the menu? " He could also ask and I could say yes. The question of what can I do from here is answered by witnessing my own morality, my own integrity. It's to live out of that as clearly as possible without holding onto the belief that I'm right. It's to be open and enlightened from every area so my path is clear, so when I stumble, you know, I enjoy it. CATALYST: It's so easy to get caught in the outrage of what's going on in the world. Large or small. KATIE: And when you're outraged, how do you treat the people around you? How do you respond to your children when they need your attention? What kind of dictators are we? CATALYST: So, you're saying that the source of one's action comes from a profound integrity rather than a reaction that comes out of anger or fury or some other emotion that causes opposition. KATIE: Yes. And fury is fear. My responsibility is to let nothing hold me back, to let no belief hold me back from doing what I know to be good and kind and dear and what I would want for myself. And I would question any stressful thought that would hold me back or keep me thinking 'What about me?' Well, what about me? You know, eventually you come to see that we don't exist anyway. So, let me be there for people who actually believe there are people. CATALYST: Yes [laughing], we appreciate that. I was just thinking about my environmental activist friends. There's a lot of friction in this community around environmental issues. People get polarized. How would you work with these two groups of people? KATIE: I would say, judge each other. Write it down and then you read your judgments to each other. See where the other person is right. Question what you've written about your opponent and then turn it around and see if there's some clarity there on your part. When they read what they've written to you, really listen to them. That's the education that I'm talking about. For example, I write that someone's not fair, that they want to cut down the trees and so on. Well, is it true? Do they really want to cut them down? Can I know their minds? Can I know their hearts? How can I know that? You know, when you have a family, you've got a mortgage or rent, you've got a car payment, you have your children in school and you're trying to buy them clothes and shoes, you might be afraid not to cut down the trees. They want to cut down the trees? Their hearts may want those trees to stand more than I ever could. [but] they're coming out of fear. Can I just understand that? So, when people get together and they start questioning and turning the questions around, there is new ground to work from. As long as mind is stuck and I'm right and you're wrong, mind isn't free to create. There's nothing that people who oppose each other in the name of anything -- the environment or world peace -- that is a new stressful thought. There are no new stressful thoughts. And we've been arguing them long before the Romans. CATALYST: I have a question about the role of history. So much of your work is about deconstructing the stories of our personal lives, our personal histories, and seeing how much of it is brought from the past into the present -- KATIE: (Jumps in) That would be all of it. CATALYST: So, how do we talk to our children and ourselves about our cultural history? KATIE: As sanely and lovingly as you can talk to them. Then they'll hear it or they won't. That's all. The way that you live is the greatest teacher. If you live opposing things, then children are going to learn to oppose. If you live in a way that's intelligent because you've questioned your stressful thoughts, if you're open and you're a listener, a gatherer, an observer, then when you act, you're clear. That's the greatest form of teaching. It's a way of living. And then your children don't know why not to do this. It's just how they live. CATALYST: But what about dealing with things of the past? KATIE: Well, history is nothing more than a whole group of concepts that haven't been questioned yet. The body has to live out of what we believe. There's no choice. That's simply how the body travels. It will follow anywhere the belief system will take it. Now. What was the question again? CATALYST: What about people who witness or uncover disturbing events of the past? Are they supposed to just stay quiet? What about that famous saying, " Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it " ? What about people like Iris Chang, who wrote " The Rape of Nanking, " about the World War II atrocities, and who bore such a heavy heart from the horrors she uncovered that recently she killed herself? KATIE: There are no new stressful thoughts. Again, when we believe what we think, the body has to live out of that. You know, here's what killed her: the thought, " I can't bear this. This is so awful. I've got to do something. I can't bear it. I've got to make sure this never happens again. " With thoughts like that, I understand why people kill themselves. They simply cannot live with their unquestioned thoughts. People want to stop the mind and they don't know how, so they simply blow their heads off. That stops the mind. CATALYST: Yes, right. That's what she did -- blew her head off. KATIE: Yeah. We can't stop the mind. It doesn't work -- unless you have Alzheimer's, in which case the thought comes that you're supposed to remember and there's a little suffering there, but then you forget the thought. CATALYST: Thank you. You've addressed the question we've had about how to be activists in our community, without getting weighed down by the suffering we see in front of us. I know many people who've not only become burned out by this suffering, they've gotten physically sick because of it. KATIE: Yes. We want to save the world and we're dying ourselves. CATALYST: Right. In coming here, I was thinking of the wide variety of people you've worked with and how much intense suffering you've experienced in sitting with these people. I remember hearing a tape of your work with a holocaust survivor and a man who worked at one of the death camps. KATIE: Yes, and in just three days I'm going to be at San Quentin. CATALYST: Will you talk about that? KATIE: Well, I love going to San Quentin. I love it. I go in and walk through the yard and it's just amazing. I'm the only woman there and there are around 6,000 men. So I walk through the yard and then I go in and do my session and word gets out really quickly. It travels like lightning. When I walk out all these guys who weren't even in session are teaching me all the new hand gestures. So, I come out of there very hand-educated (laughs). They're amazing. One time I took a tour through their cells, and I heard these blood curdling screams. Of course, they're locked up there with their thoughts. They have the thought, 'I need to get out,' and they scream like that because they're terrified of their thought. What else is there to scream over? You scream like that and you get put into a hole. It's really dark in those places and then you're left again with your thoughts! So, I say, question what you believe and love where you're at. There's nothing to fear but what we believe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 > Interview: Getting Down to The Work > CATALYST interviews Byron > By Bond *****Excellent! Thanks for this! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 Doing the work doesn't take care of people abusing me. It does take care of me abusing me. And of me abusing them. And by that, to get a clear mind. *****Very " on point. " Thanks for this, . A nice reminder that it doesn't necessarily have to be the way it seems to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 19, 2006 Report Share Posted April 19, 2006 > > POC have been told that it's their own projection, in various ways, for centuries. " You're reading into it " " You're over- reacting " " There's no double standards " etc. Their truths, their experiences, have been hushed, belittled, minimized, and swept under the rug. These are the responses they have consistently and universally received from the dominant paradigm. These are the issues we activists work to change. It has been shown that it is not only strength in numbers that boosts the vocal power of these marginalized groups, but also the advocacy of people who have powers that those groups don't possess. That is where I come in. And, since I'm an advocate, I have to be very careful about the concepts that I introduce to my clients - they are very impressionable and in great need of my support. They tend to trust whatever I say/do, so I work hard to uphold my integrity in its strongest form. > Hmmm .... as an activist you might want to listen to the following two tapes by . 1. Armageddon 2. There cannot be an enemy They are not available via the offical web site any more, but if you email Steve D. on this list I am sure he would be able to provide a copy at a nominal price. The " Armageddon " tape provides some very moving accounts of ex-activists who used to believe (like you) that some groups of people were victims of government or corporate manipulation. They came to see how WRONG their unexamined beliefs really were. Powerful stuff, if you are ready to hear it! Have a beautiful day " Hurt feelings or discomfort of any kind cannot be caused by another person. No one outside me can hurt me. That's not a possibility. It's only when I believe a stressful thought that I get hurt. And I'm the one who's hurting me by believing what I think. This is very good news, because it means that I don't have to get someone to stop hurting me. I'm the one who can stop hurting me. It's within my power. What we are doing with inquiry is meeting our thoughts with some understanding, finally. Pain, anger and frustration will let us know when it's time to inquire. We either believe what we think or we question it: there's no other choice. Questioning or thoughts is the kinder way. Inquiry always leave us as more loving human beings. " Byron Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 > And I haven't ever met anyone who really was innocent. > Love, > Uh, I thought we were all innocent? When I am operating from the mind that loves what is, that is my truth. And isn't that what says? Please , if you care to, speak more on this honey. I love you, You sexy innocent thang you Innocent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 Well, everyone is guilty of believing his stressful thoughts. Where I was going, is: if someone blames his suffering on others, he keeps himself of taking care of his suffering. It is futile to wait for someone else to help me. No one can do my job. So if I suffer, let me find where I hurt myself. That's where my guilt lies. Love, Am 20.04.2006 um 16:57 schrieb : > >> And I haven't ever met anyone who really was innocent. > >> Love, >> > > Uh, I thought we were all innocent? When I am operating from the mind > that loves what is, that is my truth. > > And isn't that what says? > > Please , if you care to, speak more on this honey. > > I love you, > > You sexy innocent thang you > > Innocent ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 , you are funny Just like me You sexy little pop corn -- Re: Human Rights Issues > And I haven't ever met anyone who really was innocent. > Love, > Uh, I thought we were all innocent? When I am operating from the mind that loves what is, that is my truth. And isn't that what says? Please , if you care to, speak more on this honey. I love you, You sexy innocent thang you Innocent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 LotW, thank you for this interesting post. >And if he > threatens to put me in jail if I don't go, then I'll simply say, " I > hear that and what's on the menu? " Why is she using this phrase? Does she want to check out what they serve in prison? nel > Interview: Getting Down to The Work > CATALYST interviews Byron > By Bond > > > Byron came to Salt Lake in February to conduct a weekend > intensive on The Work. After the Friday evening lecture, the > question of how social activism relates (or doesn't relate) to > 's system was raised among a group of CATALYST writers in > attendance: How can we call foul when 's four questions and > their turnarounds point the finger right back at us? What do we do > when we see that someone or something suffers unnecessarily and that > suffering needs to be brought to awareness? > > On Sunday night, gathered around a Salt Lake City kitchen table, we > asked her. > > CATALYST: How does The Work work in regard to political and social > activism? > > KATIE: The way The Work plays a role is, as you know, by helping us > question what we believe. The Work is four questions and a > turnaround. The answers that the questions evoke -- that's where the > power is. As we question what we believe, the mind begins to open. > As the answers come to the surface, we clearly see the unconscious > beliefs that we've been holding all our lives without question -- > without ever asking ourselves if the belief is really true. Once we > can see our beliefs as just thoughts, we can choose them, or not -- > consciously. We don't act out of misunderstanding or lack of > education. Our actions aren't based on fear. > > When we question what we believe, we can make incredible changes > from this moment now. The moment doesn't actually change, yet our > experience of it can change completely. To regret the past or fear > the future is to leave the gift of now. That's where everything > happens -- from this moment now; it's the only place change can > occur. > > If I'm fearful, it's because I believe what I think. That kind of > stress also takes energy away from the good that I could do. So, the > Work has everything to do with political activism. > > CATALYST: Part of me understands this, but there's also a part that > believes that if I'm to make a determination that something's unjust > in this world, I have to make a judgment, I have to point to that > thing and say it's a problem. > > KATIE: It is a problem. There's nothing we can do about it because > what you're talking about is already over. You're talking about a > past. So that past is very educational. It's like 'I see what > doesn't work. Now what can I do from here?' So you question what you > believe about the past and then you fearlessly begin to interact and > to make change. Positive change. Radical positive change. > > If I see people as opposing what is good, and I oppose them because > they oppose, then we're all just opposing. But if I can understand > that it's all the story of the past and ask what I can do from here, > then I can understand everything the opponent is saying. I can see > the wisdom in it. I can see why they would see it that way. I can > see all the benefits of it. And because I'm listening to them from > my position, I can see more clearly how we can work together to make > change. If I'm not opposing them and their ideas, then I can add or > subtract and we can work together. > > CATALYST: It sounds like you're saying that the energy that's > inherent in creating a duality -- that kind of friction, my idea > against your idea -- actually inhibits change. > > KATIE: Yes. If I'm in a state of war, as I oppose, people oppose > what I believe. War is war. So, I'm for just listening, weighing, > educating myself and fearlessly moving forward from this moment now. > > Catalyst: I'm still unclear. How can you determine if something is > wrong or hurtful if you're completely in alignment with the beliefs > of all sides? I'm afraid that this kind of focus would render a > person motionless in a cozy bubble of self-inquiry. > > KATIE: Yeah. Okay. If I see that something is terrible out there, or > something needs to change and if I question it and turn it around, > then I can ask what it is in me that needs to change, especially > around that situation. A whole lot is revealed there. It leaves me > with a clear ability to make change. > > CATALYST: So you just see where you have investment of belief > systems that would inhibit your own action? > > KATIE: Absolutely! You've got it! You might say, " How dare they do > that? " Well, how dare I do what I just did which is to judge them? > How can I educate myself about where they're coming from or why they > see things the way they do? I mean, how dare I judge them without > knowing them? > > You know, people look at Bush and he has all kinds of > information that we don't have. I've heard people say they see his > face on television and they just want to vomit, they're so > frightened about where they perceive he's taking us. Okay, so, what > can I do? Well, I can educate myself. I can never have the education > that he has because he's in the center of the information circle -- > as far as we know. > > CATALYST: But Bush is renowned for being the President who > doesn't want to know things. > > KATIE: And he still knows more about what's going on than we do. > > CATALYST: Maybe. > > KATIE: Well, I don't know that he does, but I tend to want to > believe that he does get some of the information from the people who > work for him. And that information, it appears, is held so tightly, > that it appears we don't get much of it anymore. > > CATALYST: Well, he says that he gets most of his information from > God. > > KATIE: Yes. So I can form an opinion, and I think, " I don't have his > information. " Where I'm coming from is " Can I absolutely know that > it's true? " In my own life, I get all the information and it falls > apart. Reality is like that. > > CATALYST: Do you think there's a reason that the collective > consciousness invented Bush for us? > > KATIE: No, you have [table erupts with laughter]. You've invented > him! Everyone has a different Bush. No two people have the > same Bush. > > Say, for example, Bush calls me to go to war. If he says, " , > you have to go, " I'll say, " Thank you for asking, and no. " And if he > threatens to put me in jail if I don't go, then I'll simply say, " I > hear that and what's on the menu? " > > He could also ask and I could say yes. The question of what can I do > from here is answered by witnessing my own morality, my own > integrity. It's to live out of that as clearly as possible without > holding onto the belief that I'm right. It's to be open and > enlightened from every area so my path is clear, so when I stumble, > you know, I enjoy it. > > CATALYST: It's so easy to get caught in the outrage of what's going > on in the world. Large or small. > > KATIE: And when you're outraged, how do you treat the people around > you? How do you respond to your children when they need your > attention? What kind of dictators are we? > > CATALYST: So, you're saying that the source of one's action comes > from a profound integrity rather than a reaction that comes out of > anger or fury or some other emotion that causes opposition. > > KATIE: Yes. And fury is fear. My responsibility is to let nothing > hold me back, to let no belief hold me back from doing what I know > to be good and kind and dear and what I would want for myself. And I > would question any stressful thought that would hold me back or keep > me thinking 'What about me?' Well, what about me? You know, > eventually you come to see that we don't exist anyway. So, let me be > there for people who actually believe there are people. > > CATALYST: Yes [laughing], we appreciate that. I was just thinking > about my environmental activist friends. There's a lot of friction > in this community around environmental issues. People get polarized. > How would you work with these two groups of people? > > KATIE: I would say, judge each other. Write it down and then you > read your judgments to each other. See where the other person is > right. Question what you've written about your opponent and then > turn it around and see if there's some clarity there on your part. > When they read what they've written to you, really listen to them. > That's the education that I'm talking about. For example, I write > that someone's not fair, that they want to cut down the trees and so > on. Well, is it true? Do they really want to cut them down? Can I > know their minds? Can I know their hearts? How can I know that? > > You know, when you have a family, you've got a mortgage or rent, > you've got a car payment, you have your children in school and > you're trying to buy them clothes and shoes, you might be afraid not > to cut down the trees. They want to cut down the trees? Their hearts > may want those trees to stand more than I ever could. [but] they're > coming out of fear. Can I just understand that? > > So, when people get together and they start questioning and turning > the questions around, there is new ground to work from. As long as > mind is stuck and I'm right and you're wrong, mind isn't free to > create. There's nothing that people who oppose each other in the > name of anything -- the environment or world peace -- that is a new > stressful thought. There are no new stressful thoughts. And we've > been arguing them long before the Romans. > > CATALYST: I have a question about the role of history. So much of > your work is about deconstructing the stories of our personal lives, > our personal histories, and seeing how much of it is brought from > the past into the present -- > > KATIE: (Jumps in) That would be all of it. > > CATALYST: So, how do we talk to our children and ourselves about our > cultural history? > > KATIE: As sanely and lovingly as you can talk to them. Then they'll > hear it or they won't. That's all. The way that you live is the > greatest teacher. If you live opposing things, then children are > going to learn to oppose. If you live in a way that's intelligent > because you've questioned your stressful thoughts, if you're open > and you're a listener, a gatherer, an observer, then when you act, > you're clear. That's the greatest form of teaching. It's a way of > living. And then your children don't know why not to do this. It's > just how they live. > > CATALYST: But what about dealing with things of the past? > > KATIE: Well, history is nothing more than a whole group of concepts > that haven't been questioned yet. The body has to live out of what > we believe. There's no choice. That's simply how the body travels. > It will follow anywhere the belief system will take it. Now. What > was the question again? > > CATALYST: What about people who witness or uncover disturbing events > of the past? Are they supposed to just stay quiet? What about that > famous saying, " Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to > repeat it " ? What about people like Iris Chang, who wrote " The Rape > of Nanking, " about the World War II atrocities, and who bore such a > heavy heart from the horrors she uncovered that recently she killed > herself? > > KATIE: There are no new stressful thoughts. Again, when we believe > what we think, the body has to live out of that. > > You know, here's what killed her: the thought, " I can't bear this. > This is so awful. I've got to do something. I can't bear it. I've > got to make sure this never happens again. " With thoughts like that, > I understand why people kill themselves. They simply cannot live > with their unquestioned thoughts. People want to stop the mind and > they don't know how, so they simply blow their heads off. That stops > the mind. > > CATALYST: Yes, right. That's what she did -- blew her head off. > > KATIE: Yeah. We can't stop the mind. It doesn't work -- unless you > have Alzheimer's, in which case the thought comes that you're > supposed to remember and there's a little suffering there, but then > you forget the thought. > > CATALYST: Thank you. You've addressed the question we've had about > how to be activists in our community, without getting weighed down > by the suffering we see in front of us. I know many people who've > not only become burned out by this suffering, they've gotten > physically sick because of it. > > KATIE: Yes. We want to save the world and we're dying ourselves. > > CATALYST: Right. In coming here, I was thinking of the wide variety > of people you've worked with and how much intense suffering you've > experienced in sitting with these people. I remember hearing a tape > of your work with a holocaust survivor and a man who worked at one > of the death camps. > > KATIE: Yes, and in just three days I'm going to be at San Quentin. > > CATALYST: Will you talk about that? > > KATIE: Well, I love going to San Quentin. I love it. I go in and > walk through the yard and it's just amazing. I'm the only woman > there and there are around 6,000 men. So I walk through the yard and > then I go in and do my session and word gets out really quickly. It > travels like lightning. When I walk out all these guys who weren't > even in session are teaching me all the new hand gestures. So, I > come out of there very hand-educated (laughs). They're amazing. > > One time I took a tour through their cells, and I heard these blood > curdling screams. Of course, they're locked up there with their > thoughts. They have the thought, 'I need to get out,' and they > scream like that because they're terrified of their thought. What > else is there to scream over? You scream like that and you get put > into a hole. It's really dark in those places and then you're left > again with your thoughts! > > So, I say, question what you believe and love where you're at. > There's nothing to fear but what we believe. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 Because she is welcoming to go in prison. She's open. And she is aware that it was her choice not to go to war. So there's no remorse, whatsoever. Love, nel stevens schrieb: LotW, thank you for this interesting post. >And if he > threatens to put me in jail if I don't go, then I'll simply say, " I > hear that and what's on the menu? " Why is she using this phrase? Does she want to check out what they serve in prison? nel > Interview: Getting Down to The Work > CATALYST interviews Byron > By Bond > > > Byron came to Salt Lake in February to conduct a weekend > intensive on The Work. After the Friday evening lecture, the > question of how social activism relates (or doesn't relate) to > 's system was raised among a group of CATALYST writers in > attendance: How can we call foul when 's four questions and > their turnarounds point the finger right back at us? What do we do > when we see that someone or something suffers unnecessarily and that > suffering needs to be brought to awareness? > > On Sunday night, gathered around a Salt Lake City kitchen table, we > asked her. > > CATALYST: How does The Work work in regard to political and social > activism? > > KATIE: The way The Work plays a role is, as you know, by helping us > question what we believe. The Work is four questions and a > turnaround. The answers that the questions evoke -- that's where the > power is. As we question what we believe, the mind begins to open. > As the answers come to the surface, we clearly see the unconscious > beliefs that we've been holding all our lives without question -- > without ever asking ourselves if the belief is really true. Once we > can see our beliefs as just thoughts, we can choose them, or not -- > consciously. We don't act out of misunderstanding or lack of > education. Our actions aren't based on fear. > > When we question what we believe, we can make incredible changes > from this moment now. The moment doesn't actually change, yet our > experience of it can change completely. To regret the past or fear > the future is to leave the gift of now. That's where everything > happens -- from this moment now; it's the only place change can > occur. > > If I'm fearful, it's because I believe what I think. That kind of > stress also takes energy away from the good that I could do. So, the > Work has everything to do with political activism. > > CATALYST: Part of me understands this, but there's also a part that > believes that if I'm to make a determination that something's unjust > in this world, I have to make a judgment, I have to point to that > thing and say it's a problem. > > KATIE: It is a problem. There's nothing we can do about it because > what you're talking about is already over. You're talking about a > past. So that past is very educational. It's like 'I see what > doesn't work. Now what can I do from here?' So you question what you > believe about the past and then you fearlessly begin to interact and > to make change. Positive change. Radical positive change. > > If I see people as opposing what is good, and I oppose them because > they oppose, then we're all just opposing. But if I can understand > that it's all the story of the past and ask what I can do from here, > then I can understand everything the opponent is saying. I can see > the wisdom in it. I can see why they would see it that way. I can > see all the benefits of it. And because I'm listening to them from > my position, I can see more clearly how we can work together to make > change. If I'm not opposing them and their ideas, then I can add or > subtract and we can work together. > > CATALYST: It sounds like you're saying that the energy that's > inherent in creating a duality -- that kind of friction, my idea > against your idea -- actually inhibits change. > > KATIE: Yes. If I'm in a state of war, as I oppose, people oppose > what I believe. War is war. So, I'm for just listening, weighing, > educating myself and fearlessly moving forward from this moment now. > > Catalyst: I'm still unclear. How can you determine if something is > wrong or hurtful if you're completely in alignment with the beliefs > of all sides? I'm afraid that this kind of focus would render a > person motionless in a cozy bubble of self-inquiry. > > KATIE: Yeah. Okay. If I see that something is terrible out there, or > something needs to change and if I question it and turn it around, > then I can ask what it is in me that needs to change, especially > around that situation. A whole lot is revealed there. It leaves me > with a clear ability to make change. > > CATALYST: So you just see where you have investment of belief > systems that would inhibit your own action? > > KATIE: Absolutely! You've got it! You might say, " How dare they do > that? " Well, how dare I do what I just did which is to judge them? > How can I educate myself about where they're coming from or why they > see things the way they do? I mean, how dare I judge them without > knowing them? > > You know, people look at Bush and he has all kinds of > information that we don't have. I've heard people say they see his > face on television and they just want to vomit, they're so > frightened about where they perceive he's taking us. Okay, so, what > can I do? Well, I can educate myself. I can never have the education > that he has because he's in the center of the information circle -- > as far as we know. > > CATALYST: But Bush is renowned for being the President who > doesn't want to know things. > > KATIE: And he still knows more about what's going on than we do. > > CATALYST: Maybe. > > KATIE: Well, I don't know that he does, but I tend to want to > believe that he does get some of the information from the people who > work for him. And that information, it appears, is held so tightly, > that it appears we don't get much of it anymore. > > CATALYST: Well, he says that he gets most of his information from > God. > > KATIE: Yes. So I can form an opinion, and I think, " I don't have his > information. " Where I'm coming from is " Can I absolutely know that > it's true? " In my own life, I get all the information and it falls > apart. Reality is like that. > > CATALYST: Do you think there's a reason that the collective > consciousness invented Bush for us? > > KATIE: No, you have [table erupts with laughter]. You've invented > him! Everyone has a different Bush. No two people have the > same Bush. > > Say, for example, Bush calls me to go to war. If he says, " , > you have to go, " I'll say, " Thank you for asking, and no. " And if he > threatens to put me in jail if I don't go, then I'll simply say, " I > hear that and what's on the menu? " > > He could also ask and I could say yes. The question of what can I do > from here is answered by witnessing my own morality, my own > integrity. It's to live out of that as clearly as possible without > holding onto the belief that I'm right. It's to be open and > enlightened from every area so my path is clear, so when I stumble, > you know, I enjoy it. > > CATALYST: It's so easy to get caught in the outrage of what's going > on in the world. Large or small. > > KATIE: And when you're outraged, how do you treat the people around > you? How do you respond to your children when they need your > attention? What kind of dictators are we? > > CATALYST: So, you're saying that the source of one's action comes > from a profound integrity rather than a reaction that comes out of > anger or fury or some other emotion that causes opposition. > > KATIE: Yes. And fury is fear. My responsibility is to let nothing > hold me back, to let no belief hold me back from doing what I know > to be good and kind and dear and what I would want for myself. And I > would question any stressful thought that would hold me back or keep > me thinking 'What about me?' Well, what about me? You know, > eventually you come to see that we don't exist anyway. So, let me be > there for people who actually believe there are people. > > CATALYST: Yes [laughing], we appreciate that. I was just thinking > about my environmental activist friends. There's a lot of friction > in this community around environmental issues. People get polarized. > How would you work with these two groups of people? > > KATIE: I would say, judge each other. Write it down and then you > read your judgments to each other. See where the other person is > right. Question what you've written about your opponent and then > turn it around and see if there's some clarity there on your part. > When they read what they've written to you, really listen to them. > That's the education that I'm talking about. For example, I write > that someone's not fair, that they want to cut down the trees and so > on. Well, is it true? Do they really want to cut them down? Can I > know their minds? Can I know their hearts? How can I know that? > > You know, when you have a family, you've got a mortgage or rent, > you've got a car payment, you have your children in school and > you're trying to buy them clothes and shoes, you might be afraid not > to cut down the trees. They want to cut down the trees? Their hearts > may want those trees to stand more than I ever could. [but] they're > coming out of fear. Can I just understand that? > > So, when people get together and they start questioning and turning > the questions around, there is new ground to work from. As long as > mind is stuck and I'm right and you're wrong, mind isn't free to > create. There's nothing that people who oppose each other in the > name of anything -- the environment or world peace -- that is a new > stressful thought. There are no new stressful thoughts. And we've > been arguing them long before the Romans. > > CATALYST: I have a question about the role of history. So much of > your work is about deconstructing the stories of our personal lives, > our personal histories, and seeing how much of it is brought from > the past into the present -- > > KATIE: (Jumps in) That would be all of it. > > CATALYST: So, how do we talk to our children and ourselves about our > cultural history? > > KATIE: As sanely and lovingly as you can talk to them. Then they'll > hear it or they won't. That's all. The way that you live is the > greatest teacher. If you live opposing things, then children are > going to learn to oppose. If you live in a way that's intelligent > because you've questioned your stressful thoughts, if you're open > and you're a listener, a gatherer, an observer, then when you act, > you're clear. That's the greatest form of teaching. It's a way of > living. And then your children don't know why not to do this. It's > just how they live. > > CATALYST: But what about dealing with things of the past? > > KATIE: Well, history is nothing more than a whole group of concepts > that haven't been questioned yet. The body has to live out of what > we believe. There's no choice. That's simply how the body travels. > It will follow anywhere the belief system will take it. Now. What > was the question again? > > CATALYST: What about people who witness or uncover disturbing events > of the past? Are they supposed to just stay quiet? What about that > famous saying, " Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to > repeat it " ? What about people like Iris Chang, who wrote " The Rape > of Nanking, " about the World War II atrocities, and who bore such a > heavy heart from the horrors she uncovered that recently she killed > herself? > > KATIE: There are no new stressful thoughts. Again, when we believe > what we think, the body has to live out of that. > > You know, here's what killed her: the thought, " I can't bear this. > This is so awful. I've got to do something. I can't bear it. I've > got to make sure this never happens again. " With thoughts like that, > I understand why people kill themselves. They simply cannot live > with their unquestioned thoughts. People want to stop the mind and > they don't know how, so they simply blow their heads off. That stops > the mind. > > CATALYST: Yes, right. That's what she did -- blew her head off. > > KATIE: Yeah. We can't stop the mind. It doesn't work -- unless you > have Alzheimer's, in which case the thought comes that you're > supposed to remember and there's a little suffering there, but then > you forget the thought. > > CATALYST: Thank you. You've addressed the question we've had about > how to be activists in our community, without getting weighed down > by the suffering we see in front of us. I know many people who've > not only become burned out by this suffering, they've gotten > physically sick because of it. > > KATIE: Yes. We want to save the world and we're dying ourselves. > > CATALYST: Right. In coming here, I was thinking of the wide variety > of people you've worked with and how much intense suffering you've > experienced in sitting with these people. I remember hearing a tape > of your work with a holocaust survivor and a man who worked at one > of the death camps. > > KATIE: Yes, and in just three days I'm going to be at San Quentin. > > CATALYST: Will you talk about that? > > KATIE: Well, I love going to San Quentin. I love it. I go in and > walk through the yard and it's just amazing. I'm the only woman > there and there are around 6,000 men. So I walk through the yard and > then I go in and do my session and word gets out really quickly. It > travels like lightning. When I walk out all these guys who weren't > even in session are teaching me all the new hand gestures. So, I > come out of there very hand-educated (laughs). They're amazing. > > One time I took a tour through their cells, and I heard these blood > curdling screams. Of course, they're locked up there with their > thoughts. They have the thought, 'I need to get out,' and they > scream like that because they're terrified of their thought. What > else is there to scream over? You scream like that and you get put > into a hole. It's really dark in those places and then you're left > again with your thoughts! > > So, I say, question what you believe and love where you're at. > There's nothing to fear but what we believe. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 I wonder if you have ever seen the movie Selena.. its the true story of the singer Selena played by .. and she was great in it.. anyway she is a mexican american who has to learn spanish and her father says you have never noticed prejudice and he says its because she has never been prejudice.. I cant remmeber the exact line. I think it is true you see it more if you think that way.. for example if you buy a vw and then you see a bunch of vws on the road because you are more aware of them. My husband is jewish and once drove a limosine for an arab company . HE always got the limo with bad air conditioning.. I said he was being discriminated against and he said he didnt think so.. well duh anyway he quit that job later. but not for that reason.. The car broke and he got blamed but anyway he didnt have to pay for it.. so that was good. The company doesnt exist anymore my husband has never in his life experienced prejudice becuase he is not a prejudice person. maybe it wasnt a lesson he needed. I dont know, r -- In Loving-what-is , Ironstone wrote: > > Ok, now for another challenge. But first, a bit of prefacing: > > I have worked for many years in various activism movements. It is my passion and my pleasure to serve those with less of a voice than me. All of my work in these endeavors is volunteer. I also include my children in my activist work, when appropriate. > > So, I have watched many innocent people, including children, suffer from the effects of ignorance and bigotry. I have worked to help them maintain or build their integrity, to be empowered in their heritage and to debate against the voices filled with hate (i.e. racism/classism/sexism/etc.). > > I am now wondering how The Work can be applied to these causes. > > > Incidentally, I have already addressed my committees with the work of inquiry. So far, they have not taken to it very well. (They do tend to see me as the New Age wingnut in the group, as I am an aromatherapist and my husband is an astrologer. I guess maybe we're not the norm in activist circles.) They are pointing out how The Work makes no sense, for example, for a person of color (POC) to do against the claims of inferiority that are made by racists. If a POC is feeling hurt by a comment of ignorance/hate, is it b/c there's TRUTH in that, according to The Work? If a child born into a religion that is discriminated against is treated unfairly in his/her class at school due to the unspoken double standards that are very prevalent - is that b/c they're seeing their reflection? If a POC experiences racial profiling by a law enforcement authority - is it, again, b/c they've projected that? What about a woman who is discriminated against in her workplace - where a man > who has worked less hours and with less fervor is given more income b/c he is a man and she is encouraged to focus more on her sex-appeal than the quality of her performance? > > All of these are universal scenarios. > > Is there a way The Work can actually be RELEVANT and USEFUL for these people, in your opinions? > > > Thank you all, in advance, for any thoughts you share on this subject. > > > > > With love, > > ~ > > > --------------------------------- > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 > > > > Ok, now for another challenge. But first, a bit of prefacing: > > > > I have worked for many years in various activism movements. It > is my passion and my pleasure to serve those with less of a voice > than me. All of my work in these endeavors is volunteer. I also > include my children in my activist work, when appropriate. > > > > So, I have watched many innocent people, including children, > suffer from the effects of ignorance and bigotry. I have worked to > help them maintain or build their integrity, to be empowered in > their heritage and to debate against the voices filled with hate > (i.e. racism/classism/sexism/etc.). > > > > I am now wondering how The Work can be applied to these causes. > > > > > > Incidentally, I have already addressed my committees with the > work of inquiry. So far, they have not taken to it very well. > (They do tend to see me as the New Age wingnut in the group, as I am > an aromatherapist and my husband is an astrologer. I guess maybe > we're not the norm in activist circles.) They are pointing out how > The Work makes no sense, for example, for a person of color (POC) to > do against the claims of inferiority that are made by racists. If a > POC is feeling hurt by a comment of ignorance/hate, is it b/c > there's TRUTH in that, according to The Work? If a child born into > a religion that is discriminated against is treated unfairly in > his/her class at school due to the unspoken double standards that > are very prevalent - is that b/c they're seeing their reflection? > If a POC experiences racial profiling by a law enforcement > authority - is it, again, b/c they've projected that? What about a > woman who is discriminated against in her workplace - where a man > > who has worked less hours and with less fervor is given more > income b/c he is a man and she is encouraged to focus more on her > sex-appeal than the quality of her performance? > > > > All of these are universal scenarios. > > > > Is there a way The Work can actually be RELEVANT and USEFUL for > these people, in your opinions? > > > > > > Thank you all, in advance, for any thoughts you share on this > subject. > > > > > > > > > > With love, > > > > ~ > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to- Phone > call rates. > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 , hi, Does it matter if it is true or not? Just because i say it's true does it make it so? True or False are just thoughts. An interpretation of reality. nel " " wrote: > Why can´t we know the truth? Don´t you feel what´s true for you and > what´s not when you do the Work? > > Love, > > > > We can't know the truth.-just my opinion. > > > > nel > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh boy, Daily > > > > > > > > > > Is if the work doesn't seem to help me it means I don't want > to > > > > know the > > > > > truth? > > > > > > > > > > How about the thought: > > > > > I want X to call me???? > > > > > > > > > > True this thought causes me pain > > > > > True I have 10000 reasons to drop it > > > > > True I have no stress free reason to keep it > > > > > > > > > > However the turn around are > > > > > What do you know also stories as well and not the truth!!! > > > > > > > > > > can be so manipulative at times > > > > > And I am not going to turn that one around > > > > > > > > > > Grrr > > > > > > > > > > T > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 In a previous post of yours you say " feel what is true " . Now you conclude your truth. Why did you say feel? hugs nel " " wrote: > > I don´t of course always know what is true. I don´t even know what > my name is. I did the work on that once: My name is , is it > true? I didn´t know and I couldn´t be absolutely sure of that that > was my name. But that is also a truth. > > Or something simple like: Hans should vacuum, and he isn´t. It´s not > true that Hans should vacuum, because he isn´t. It is more true that > I should vacuum, since I´m the one who wants the floors clean. > > That`s the kind of truths I find when I do the work. > > And you can keep your label-story story too (which sounds to me like > something you think is true), like we had a choise... > > Love, > > > > > > > The " truth " is a labbel we put on what is > > labbel = story > > > > You can keep the story: > > reality = truth > > > > if you have that story you get to know what is truth (reality) > > however, it is just a story as well > > > > and I am happy for you M > > that you know the truth. > > > > I dont > > > > T > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh boy, Daily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is if the work doesn't seem to help me it means I don't > > want > > > to > > > > > > know the > > > > > > > truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about the thought: > > > > > > > I want X to call me???? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True this thought causes me pain > > > > > > > True I have 10000 reasons to drop it > > > > > > > True I have no stress free reason to keep it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However the turn around are > > > > > > > What do you know also stories as well and not the > truth!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can be so manipulative at times > > > > > > > And I am not going to turn that one around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grrr > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh boy, Daily > > > > > > > > > > > > Is if the work doesn't seem to help me it means I don't want > > to > > > > > know the > > > > > > truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > How about the thought: > > > > > > I want X to call me???? > > > > > > > > > > > > True this thought causes me pain > > > > > > True I have 10000 reasons to drop it > > > > > > True I have no stress free reason to keep it > > > > > > > > > > > > However the turn around are > > > > > > What do you know also stories as well and not the truth!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > can be so manipulative at times > > > > > > And I am not going to turn that one around > > > > > > > > > > > > Grrr > > > > > > > > > > > > T > > > > > > > > > > > > -------Original Message------- > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 22, 2006 Report Share Posted April 22, 2006 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Oh boy, Daily > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Is if the work doesn't seem to help me it means I don't > > > want > > > > to > > > > > > > know the > > > > > > > > truth? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > How about the thought: > > > > > > > > I want X to call me???? > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > True this thought causes me pain > > > > > > > > True I have 10000 reasons to drop it > > > > > > > > True I have no stress free reason to keep it > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > However the turn around are > > > > > > > > What do you know also stories as well and not the > > truth!!! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > can be so manipulative at times > > > > > > > > And I am not going to turn that one around > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Grrr > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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