children

April 24, 2006

I have a friend who rase her child on her own

(yes yes, she is a single mom).

Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an answer.

He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that he would

be happy.

Well, don't be too sad reading this,

Cause I came to her rescue!

I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the carpet

So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years old crying

child.

ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

Child: crying

Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I don't

understand a word you say.

Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to ask for

it. What do you want?

(playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

Child: crying, shouting.

Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me to do

something you need to ask me.

I don't understand.

Child: move move (crying)

Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

Child: crying

Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to do is to

say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry. I will be

happy to move but I need you to ask.

Child: please move.

Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint say that.

I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me and

started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the carpet. He

cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't understand.

After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other than this

house.

You can play with other houses if you want

Child: crying

Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad? (child:

yes).

Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand you

Child: crying

Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

Child: crying

Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

After a while he calmed down

Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise crying.

I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here, and if he

feels that he wants to cry

I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the Bathroom and

close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment but because

I need quiet.

So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to cry and

it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is willing to be

quiet so she would let him out.

It worked, he went out and was quiet.

Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to communicate: ask

for what he wants and not cry for it.

By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him while he

cries (manipulation).

Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the world, his

mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to much noise

it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always choose to go

out by obeying her rules.

That was lesson one, I gave her

And I learn it from .

Any responses?

T

April 24, 2006

Who wants to be a nanny?

Not me!

I just felt that this chaos and luck of boundaries was too much

So I stepped in. It was simple for me to do it. Cause I KNOW WHAT I WANT!

And what I want is ((((((( QUIET ))))))

T

-- Re: children

tami.. that sounds great..

now you can be a nanny.

In the US we have a TV show called Nanny 911 and these british

nannies have a week with cameras rolling to get kids in a family to

behave.. and they use a time out a lot.. I've only watched a little

of it.. but its amazing how the kids change when they have rules.

the nanny also has to educate the parents who are big wimps.

Im glad you didnt tell him not to cry but to go in another room.

its good to let off steam.. but not to annoy other people

you should watch kids for a living. and read tarot to the parents .I

bet you could get a live in nanny job and then you could move out and

not be homeless. IF your interested. in your business again.

i hope that kid doesnt come to the us -they might put him on ritalin

i guess that isnt fair another story.

love, r

-- In Loving-what-is , Tami wrote:

>

> I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> (yes yes, she is a single mom).

>

> Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an

answer.

>

> He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that

he would

> be happy.

>

> Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> Cause I came to her rescue!

>

> I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the

carpet

> So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

> He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

>

> Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years

old crying

> child.

>

> ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I

don't

> understand a word you say.

>

> Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

>

> Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to

ask for

> it. What do you want?

> (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

>

> Child: crying, shouting.

>

> Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me

to do

> something you need to ask me.

> I don't understand.

>

> Child: move move (crying)

>

> Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to

do is to

> say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry.

I will be

> happy to move but I need you to ask.

>

> Child: please move.

>

> Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint

say that.

> I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

>

> After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

> He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me

and

> started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

carpet. He

> cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

>

> Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

understand.

> After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

>

> Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other

than this

> house.

> You can play with other houses if you want

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

(child:

> yes).

> Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand

you

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

>

> After a while he calmed down

>

> Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise

crying.

>

> I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here,

and if he

> feels that he wants to cry

> I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

Bathroom and

> close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment

but because

> I need quiet.

> So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to

cry and

> it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is

willing to be

> quiet so she would let him out.

> It worked, he went out and was quiet.

>

> Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

communicate: ask

> for what he wants and not cry for it.

> By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

while he

> cries (manipulation).

>

> Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

world, his

> mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

much noise

> it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

choose to go

> out by obeying her rules.

>

> That was lesson one, I gave her

> And I learn it from .

>

> Any responses?

>

> T

>

April 24, 2006

I did tell my friend to have her kid examined to make sure that he doent

have hdd

Cause if he does, well, the blue pill can help

T

-- Re: children

tami.. that sounds great..

now you can be a nanny.

In the US we have a TV show called Nanny 911 and these british

nannies have a week with cameras rolling to get kids in a family to

behave.. and they use a time out a lot.. I've only watched a little

of it.. but its amazing how the kids change when they have rules.

the nanny also has to educate the parents who are big wimps.

Im glad you didnt tell him not to cry but to go in another room.

its good to let off steam.. but not to annoy other people

you should watch kids for a living. and read tarot to the parents .I

bet you could get a live in nanny job and then you could move out and

not be homeless. IF your interested. in your business again.

i hope that kid doesnt come to the us -they might put him on ritalin

i guess that isnt fair another story.

love, r

-- In Loving-what-is , Tami wrote:

>

> I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> (yes yes, she is a single mom).

>

> Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an

answer.

>

> He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that

he would

> be happy.

>

> Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> Cause I came to her rescue!

>

> I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the

carpet

> So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

> He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

>

> Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years

old crying

> child.

>

> ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I

don't

> understand a word you say.

>

> Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

>

> Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to

ask for

> it. What do you want?

> (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

>

> Child: crying, shouting.

>

> Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me

to do

> something you need to ask me.

> I don't understand.

>

> Child: move move (crying)

>

> Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to

do is to

> say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry.

I will be

> happy to move but I need you to ask.

>

> Child: please move.

>

> Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint

say that.

> I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

>

> After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

> He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me

and

> started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

carpet. He

> cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

>

> Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

understand.

> After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

>

> Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other

than this

> house.

> You can play with other houses if you want

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

(child:

> yes).

> Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand

you

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

>

> After a while he calmed down

>

> Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise

crying.

>

> I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here,

and if he

> feels that he wants to cry

> I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

Bathroom and

> close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment

but because

> I need quiet.

> So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to

cry and

> it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is

willing to be

> quiet so she would let him out.

> It worked, he went out and was quiet.

>

> Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

communicate: ask

> for what he wants and not cry for it.

> By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

while he

> cries (manipulation).

>

> Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

world, his

> mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

much noise

> it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

choose to go

> out by obeying her rules.

>

> That was lesson one, I gave her

> And I learn it from .

>

> Any responses?

>

> T

>

April 24, 2006

our funny tami.. if she takes him i can almost guarnatee he will be

diagnosed wtih something.. as there are over 300 different things he

could have and hes sure to have something.. for a patient to be

diagnosed normal.. that would be weird. and a first most likely. ..

abnormal , r

- In Loving-what-is , Tami wrote:

>

> I did tell my friend to have her kid examined to make sure that he

doent

> have hdd

> Cause if he does, well, the blue pill can help

>

> T

>

> -- Re: children

>

> tami.. that sounds great..

> now you can be a nanny.

> In the US we have a TV show called Nanny 911 and these british

> nannies have a week with cameras rolling to get kids in a family

to

> behave.. and they use a time out a lot.. I've only watched a little

> of it.. but its amazing how the kids change when they have rules.

> the nanny also has to educate the parents who are big wimps.

> Im glad you didnt tell him not to cry but to go in another room.

> its good to let off steam.. but not to annoy other people

> you should watch kids for a living. and read tarot to the

parents .I

> bet you could get a live in nanny job and then you could move out

and

> not be homeless. IF your interested. in your business again.

> i hope that kid doesnt come to the us -they might put him on

ritalin

> i guess that isnt fair another story.

>

> love, r

>

> -- In Loving-what-is , Tami <tamar_fa@> wrote:

> >

> > I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> > (yes yes, she is a single mom).

> >

> > Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for

an

> answer.

> >

> > He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so

that

> he would

> > be happy.

> >

> > Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> > Cause I came to her rescue!

> >

> > I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from

the

> carpet

> > So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on

it).

> > He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

> >

> > Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> > And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years

> old crying

> > child.

> >

> > ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

> >

> > Child: crying

> >

> > Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I

> don't

> > understand a word you say.

> >

> > Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

> >

> > Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need

to

> ask for

> > it. What do you want?

> > (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

> >

> > Child: crying, shouting.

> >

> > Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want

me

> to do

> > something you need to ask me.

> > I don't understand.

> >

> > Child: move move (crying)

> >

> > Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

> >

> > Child: crying

> >

> > Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need

to

> do is to

> > say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to

cry.

> I will be

> > happy to move but I need you to ask.

> >

> > Child: please move.

> >

> > Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint

> say that.

> > I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

> >

> > After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the

carpet.

> > He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to

me

> and

> > started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

> carpet. He

> > cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

> >

> > Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

> understand.

> > After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

> >

> > Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> > I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs

other

> than this

> > house.

> > You can play with other houses if you want

> >

> > Child: crying

> >

> > Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

> (child:

> > yes).

> > Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand

> you

> >

> > Child: crying

> >

> > Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

> >

> > Child: crying

> >

> > Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

> >

> > After a while he calmed down

> >

> > Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of

noise

> crying.

> >

> > I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> > I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around

here,

> and if he

> > feels that he wants to cry

> > I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

> Bathroom and

> > close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment

> but because

> > I need quiet.

> > So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs

to

> cry and

> > it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is

> willing to be

> > quiet so she would let him out.

> > It worked, he went out and was quiet.

> >

> > Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

> communicate: ask

> > for what he wants and not cry for it.

> > By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

> while he

> > cries (manipulation).

> >

> > Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

> world, his

> > mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

> much noise

> > it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

> choose to go

> > out by obeying her rules.

> >

> > That was lesson one, I gave her

> > And I learn it from .

> >

> > Any responses?

> >

> > T

> >

April 24, 2006

Dear T,

What you did with the boy was very loving and patient; however, I

find that sometimes an outsider like yourself on a one time basis can

demonstrate more patience that the child's Mother, who is exhausted

and worn out from Mothering, Working, etc. Just a thought.

Love you, Steve D.

>

> I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> (yes yes, she is a single mom).

>

> Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an

answer.

>

> He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that

he would

> be happy.

>

> Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> Cause I came to her rescue!

>

> I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the

carpet

> So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

> He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

>

> Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years

old crying

> child.

>

> ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I

don't

> understand a word you say.

>

> Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

>

> Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to

ask for

> it. What do you want?

> (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

>

> Child: crying, shouting.

>

> Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me

to do

> something you need to ask me.

> I don't understand.

>

> Child: move move (crying)

>

> Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to

do is to

> say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry.

I will be

> happy to move but I need you to ask.

>

> Child: please move.

>

> Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint

say that.

> I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

>

> After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

> He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me

and

> started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

carpet. He

> cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

>

> Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

understand.

> After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

>

> Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other

than this

> house.

> You can play with other houses if you want

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

(child:

> yes).

> Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand

you

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

>

> After a while he calmed down

>

> Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise

crying.

>

> I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here,

and if he

> feels that he wants to cry

> I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

Bathroom and

> close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment

but because

> I need quiet.

> So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to

cry and

> it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is

willing to be

> quiet so she would let him out.

> It worked, he went out and was quiet.

>

> Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

communicate: ask

> for what he wants and not cry for it.

> By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

while he

> cries (manipulation).

>

> Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

world, his

> mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

much noise

> it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

choose to go

> out by obeying her rules.

>

> That was lesson one, I gave her

> And I learn it from .

>

> Any responses?

>

> T

>

April 24, 2006

>

> Dear T,

I think you are just awesome!

You can stand on my house anyday.

If you put me in the bathroom though, please make sure the toilet is

not stopped up first. Cuz then I might be crying cuz I can't breathe

cuz of all the poop stench, but you wouldn't know to let me out cuz

I'm crying so hard you can't understand me. And you might not let me

out til I stop crying.... and on and on it would go.

And the notice in the death section of the paper would say

'She died from excessive inhalation of poop stench and Tami didn't let

her out'

April 25, 2006

It was a begging!

Today she she called me to tell me that for the first time he went to bed

when she asked him to

Without crying.

She was shocked

I wasn't

This kid is a drama queen, and trust, it takes one to recognize one.

So when there is no audience, the show is over

T

-- Re: children

Dear T,

What you did with the boy was very loving and patient; however, I

find that sometimes an outsider like yourself on a one time basis can

demonstrate more patience that the child's Mother, who is exhausted

and worn out from Mothering, Working, etc. Just a thought.

Love you, Steve D.

>

> I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> (yes yes, she is a single mom).

>

> Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an

answer.

>

> He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that

he would

> be happy.

>

> Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> Cause I came to her rescue!

>

> I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the

carpet

> So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

> He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

>

> Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years

old crying

> child.

>

> ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I

don't

> understand a word you say.

>

> Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

>

> Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to

ask for

> it. What do you want?

> (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

>

> Child: crying, shouting.

>

> Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me

to do

> something you need to ask me.

> I don't understand.

>

> Child: move move (crying)

>

> Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to

do is to

> say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry.

I will be

> happy to move but I need you to ask.

>

> Child: please move.

>

> Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint

say that.

> I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

>

> After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

> He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me

and

> started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

carpet. He

> cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

>

> Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

understand.

> After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

>

> Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other

than this

> house.

> You can play with other houses if you want

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

(child:

> yes).

> Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand

you

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

>

> After a while he calmed down

>

> Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise

crying.

>

> I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here,

and if he

> feels that he wants to cry

> I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

Bathroom and

> close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment

but because

> I need quiet.

> So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to

cry and

> it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is

willing to be

> quiet so she would let him out.

> It worked, he went out and was quiet.

>

> Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

communicate: ask

> for what he wants and not cry for it.

> By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

while he

> cries (manipulation).

>

> Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

world, his

> mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

much noise

> it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

choose to go

> out by obeying her rules.

>

> That was lesson one, I gave her

> And I learn it from .

>

> Any responses?

>

> T

>

April 25, 2006

Yes AMber

I learned it from

Not the toilet part but when his 2 kids started to cry and have a fight

said to them something and suddenly there was quiet

I told him: honey, I NEED A TRUNSLATION on that one

And he said: I told Lucas to ask for what he wants

I was thinking that it is so brilliant

And you?

-- Re: children

Sweetie,

Wow you learnt it from ???

I'm impressed.

I will do the same with my little half-sisters next time (age 3 and 5)

Love you loads,

Amber

Tami wrote:

I have a friend who rase her child on her own

(yes yes, she is a single mom).

Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an answer.

He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that he would

be happy.

Well, don't be too sad reading this,

Cause I came to her rescue!

I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the carpet

So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years old crying

child.

ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

Child: crying

Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I don't

understand a word you say.

Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to ask for

it. What do you want?

(playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

Child: crying, shouting.

Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me to do

something you need to ask me.

I don't understand.

Child: move move (crying)

Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

Child: crying

Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to do is to

say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry. I will be

happy to move but I need you to ask.

Child: please move.

Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint say that.

I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me and

started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the carpet. He

cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't understand.

After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other than this

house.

You can play with other houses if you want

Child: crying

Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad? (child:

yes).

Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand you

Child: crying

Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

Child: crying

Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

After a while he calmed down

Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise crying.

I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here, and if he

feels that he wants to cry

I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the Bathroom and

close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment but because

I need quiet.

So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to cry and

it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is willing to be

quiet so she would let him out.

It worked, he went out and was quiet.

Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to communicate: ask

for what he wants and not cry for it.

By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him while he

cries (manipulation).

Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the world, his

mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to much noise

it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always choose to go

out by obeying her rules.

That was lesson one, I gave her

And I learn it from .

Any responses?

T

April 25, 2006

There was a book called " how to control your child " or maybe " how to

tame your toddler " .

From the little i read it said that the best way to keep a child

happy is to lock it in a room when it has a crying fit. For as long as

it takes. It is said that they like that.

I wouldn't know if it's a good thing, but to me it seems better than

having to reason with a little child... how do parents do it.

nel

>

> I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> (yes yes, she is a single mom).

>

> Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an

answer.

>

> He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that

he would

> be happy.

>

> Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> Cause I came to her rescue!

>

> I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the

carpet

> So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

> He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

>

> Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years old

crying

> child.

>

> ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I don't

> understand a word you say.

>

> Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

>

> Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to

ask for

> it. What do you want?

> (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

>

> Child: crying, shouting.

>

> Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me

to do

> something you need to ask me.

> I don't understand.

>

> Child: move move (crying)

>

> Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to

do is to

> say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry. I

will be

> happy to move but I need you to ask.

>

> Child: please move.

>

> Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint say

that.

> I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

>

> After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

> He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me and

> started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

carpet. He

> cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

>

> Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

understand.

> After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

>

> Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other

than this

> house.

> You can play with other houses if you want

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

(child:

> yes).

> Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand you

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

>

> After a while he calmed down

>

> Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise

crying.

>

> I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here,

and if he

> feels that he wants to cry

> I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

Bathroom and

> close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment but

because

> I need quiet.

> So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to

cry and

> it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is willing

to be

> quiet so she would let him out.

> It worked, he went out and was quiet.

>

> Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

communicate: ask

> for what he wants and not cry for it.

> By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

while he

> cries (manipulation).

>

> Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

world, his

> mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

much noise

> it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

choose to go

> out by obeying her rules.

>

> That was lesson one, I gave her

> And I learn it from .

>

> Any responses?

>

> T

>

April 25, 2006

I told my friend: you do all the talking

Your child does all the crying

Enough is enough !

If he is willing to communicate and he knows how...

Well, the door to freedom is always open

By the way you need to recognize between a genuine cry, than I would just

hug him

And a manipulation cry that the child thinks that by playing miserable he

could get what he wants

T

-- Re: children

There was a book called " how to control your child " or maybe " how to

tame your toddler " .

From the little i read it said that the best way to keep a child

happy is to lock it in a room when it has a crying fit. For as long as

it takes. It is said that they like that.

I wouldn't know if it's a good thing, but to me it seems better than

having to reason with a little child... how do parents do it.

nel

>

> I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> (yes yes, she is a single mom).

>

> Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an

answer.

>

> He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that

he would

> be happy.

>

> Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> Cause I came to her rescue!

>

> I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the

carpet

> So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

> He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

>

> Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years old

crying

> child.

>

> ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I don't

> understand a word you say.

>

> Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

>

> Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to

ask for

> it. What do you want?

> (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

>

> Child: crying, shouting.

>

> Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me

to do

> something you need to ask me.

> I don't understand.

>

> Child: move move (crying)

>

> Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to

do is to

> say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry. I

will be

> happy to move but I need you to ask.

>

> Child: please move.

>

> Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint say

that.

> I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

>

> After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

> He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me and

> started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

carpet. He

> cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

>

> Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

understand.

> After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

>

> Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other

than this

> house.

> You can play with other houses if you want

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

(child:

> yes).

> Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand you

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

>

> After a while he calmed down

>

> Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise

crying.

>

> I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here,

and if he

> feels that he wants to cry

> I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

Bathroom and

> close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment but

because

> I need quiet.

> So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to

cry and

> it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is willing

to be

> quiet so she would let him out.

> It worked, he went out and was quiet.

>

> Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

communicate: ask

> for what he wants and not cry for it.

> By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

while he

> cries (manipulation).

>

> Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

world, his

> mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

much noise

> it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

choose to go

> out by obeying her rules.

>

> That was lesson one, I gave her

> And I learn it from .

>

> Any responses?

>

> T

>

April 25, 2006

I just have to reply, here, to this and the part of Tami's post where the child

was placed in the bathroom when he was sad and crying.

Specifically about that boy - perhaps he was experimenting with his power of

influence, but I do not think highly of the rejection inherent in abandoning the

child without his consent. There are other ways to get the point across.

The example of the child being 'put away' when sad and crying is about the

epitome of conditional love, in my opinion.

Besides - what is it that is being triggered when we 'can't take it' when a

child has messy and out-of-control feelings? What do we feel threatened by?

Many of the wisest sources say it is our own unmet childhood emotions that are

triggered and surface as a result of exposure to children's emotions. When we

'put them away in another room and leave them alone' - that's what we're doing

to our own inner child (the turnaround) - as well as to that particular 'outer'

child! The pattern will continue as long as there is the *underlying belief*

that 'children should be seen and not heard'.

Also, that child in your story Tami - I guarantee you he learned all his moves

from his mommy. Children are the most perfect mirrors of all. Do you lock her

in the bathroom when she is manipulative? Well, I'll bet someone, at some time,

DID lock her away when she expressed her feelings too loudly. Then she found

the more sophisticated tools of persuasion that are available to adults who want

to get their way but have learned that they can't express it directly. In other

words - adults can often be very manipulative, too - they just use methods that

are less obvious than children do. But - why not turn the label of

*manipulative* around, anyway - see what you find?

I do, however, value the method of discussion you used with him to get your

own needs met. I'm not so sure that I believe that it was in the best interest

of the child, however, except to serve the purpose of making him acceptable in

the eyes of adults by means of his behavior (conditional love). He was behaving

the way he was as a four year old's way of telling you something isn't right in

his life. Perhaps he was feeling jealous that his mommy's attention was not on

him, but was perhaps on you? That is common in single-parent families. His

mommy probably spends a lot of time working since she is the sole

provider/caregiver, so he feels insecure about their bond. He's probably

already picked up on the underlying belief that adults matter more than

children, so when his mommy has an adult friend over to her home - he might feel

threatened (a very normal response for his age - he is still quite small).

I am not advocating *no response* to children's haywire emotions, but I think

it would be good to do The Work on why you need HIM to behave differently or

else be away from you. And - since you are not a mother, yourself, and someone

else pointed out the very relevant factor that you probably do have much more

patience b/c you are not mothering 24/7, then you can put that freshness into

your effort to do The Work on the situation.

B/c, really, if you were sad and crying and someone put you in the bathroom

and told you that you couldn't come out until you were done, wouldn't you feel

like your acceptance by others was totally conditional?

nel stevens wrote:

There was a book called " how to control your child " or maybe " how to

tame your toddler " .

From the little i read it said that the best way to keep a child

happy is to lock it in a room when it has a crying fit. For as long as

it takes. It is said that they like that.

I wouldn't know if it's a good thing, but to me it seems better than

having to reason with a little child... how do parents do it.

nel

>

> I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> (yes yes, she is a single mom).

>

> Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an

answer.

>

> He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that

he would

> be happy.

>

> Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> Cause I came to her rescue!

>

> I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the

carpet

> So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

> He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

>

> Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years old

crying

> child.

>

> ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I don't

> understand a word you say.

>

> Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

>

> Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to

ask for

> it. What do you want?

> (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

>

> Child: crying, shouting.

>

> Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me

to do

> something you need to ask me.

> I don't understand.

>

> Child: move move (crying)

>

> Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to

do is to

> say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry. I

will be

> happy to move but I need you to ask.

>

> Child: please move.

>

> Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint say

that.

> I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

>

> After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

> He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me and

> started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

carpet. He

> cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

>

> Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

understand.

> After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

>

> Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other

than this

> house.

> You can play with other houses if you want

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

(child:

> yes).

> Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand you

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

>

> After a while he calmed down

>

> Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise

crying.

>

> I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here,

and if he

> feels that he wants to cry

> I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

Bathroom and

> close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment but

because

> I need quiet.

> So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to

cry and

> it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is willing

to be

> quiet so she would let him out.

> It worked, he went out and was quiet.

>

> Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

communicate: ask

> for what he wants and not cry for it.

> By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

while he

> cries (manipulation).

>

> Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

world, his

> mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

much noise

> it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

choose to go

> out by obeying her rules.

>

> That was lesson one, I gave her

> And I learn it from .

>

> Any responses?

>

> T

>

April 25, 2006

> >

> > I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> > (yes yes, she is a single mom).

> >

> > Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an

> answer.

> >

> > He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that

> he would

> > be happy.

> >

> > Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> > Cause I came to her rescue!

> >

> > I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the

> carpet

> > So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

> > He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

> >

> > Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> > And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years old

> crying

> > child.

> >

> > ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

> >

> > Child: crying

> >

> > Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I don't

> > understand a word you say.

> >

> > Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

> >

> > Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to

> ask for

> > it. What do you want?

> > (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

> >

> > Child: crying, shouting.

> >

> > Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me

> to do

> > something you need to ask me.

> > I don't understand.

> >

> > Child: move move (crying)

> >

> > Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

> >

> > Child: crying

> >

> > Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to

> do is to

> > say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry. I

> will be

> > happy to move but I need you to ask.

> >

> > Child: please move.

> >

> > Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint say

> that.

> > I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

> >

> > After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

> > He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me and

> > started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

> carpet. He

> > cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

> >

> > Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

> understand.

> > After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

> >

> > Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> > I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other

> than this

> > house.

> > You can play with other houses if you want

> >

> > Child: crying

> >

> > Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

> (child:

> > yes).

> > Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand

you

> >

> > Child: crying

> >

> > Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

> >

> > Child: crying

> >

> > Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

> >

> > After a while he calmed down

> >

> > Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise

> crying.

> >

> > I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> > I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here,

> and if he

> > feels that he wants to cry

> > I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

> Bathroom and

> > close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment but

> because

> > I need quiet.

> > So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to

> cry and

> > it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is willing

> to be

> > quiet so she would let him out.

> > It worked, he went out and was quiet.

> >

> > Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

> communicate: ask

> > for what he wants and not cry for it.

> > By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

> while he

> > cries (manipulation).

> >

> > Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

> world, his

> > mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

> much noise

> > it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

> choose to go

> > out by obeying her rules.

> >

> > That was lesson one, I gave her

> > And I learn it from .

> >

> > Any responses?

> >

> > T

> >

April 25, 2006

- Since when is Love of parents unconditional? God's love is not

> unconditional (being thrown out of the Garden of Eden etc) -

God didnt throw anyone out of the garden.. we left it.

Ive been taught at unity

WE wanted the experience of duality and ate of the tree of good and

evil of duality and so we see everyhting with that perception.

if your interested in another view read THe Disappearance of the

Universe by gary renard.

page 25 .. i would key in the quote but its kindof long.

" even todays parents know the surest way to get children to do

something is to tell them they cant . "

Its a mythological story with symbolic meaning thats all.

hell is also a myth -even a human parent wouldnt send their child to

hell.. might seem like they do if they mistreat them.

Hell is what we sometimes create for ourselves here.

love, r

- In Loving-what-is , " nel stevens " wrote:

>

> > >

> > > I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> > > (yes yes, she is a single mom).

> > >

> > > Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an

> > answer.

> > >

> > > He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that

> > he would

> > > be happy.

> > >

> > > Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> > > Cause I came to her rescue!

> > >

> > > I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the

> > carpet

> > > So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

> > > He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

> > >

> > > Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> > > And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years old

> > crying

> > > child.

> > >

> > > ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

> > >

> > > Child: crying

> > >

> > > Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I

don't

> > > understand a word you say.

> > >

> > > Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

> > >

> > > Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to

> > ask for

> > > it. What do you want?

> > > (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

> > >

> > > Child: crying, shouting.

> > >

> > > Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me

> > to do

> > > something you need to ask me.

> > > I don't understand.

> > >

> > > Child: move move (crying)

> > >

> > > Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

> > >

> > > Child: crying

> > >

> > > Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to

> > do is to

> > > say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry. I

> > will be

> > > happy to move but I need you to ask.

> > >

> > > Child: please move.

> > >

> > > Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint say

> > that.

> > > I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

> > >

> > > After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

> > > He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to

me and

> > > started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

> > carpet. He

> > > cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

> > >

> > > Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

> > understand.

> > > After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

> > >

> > > Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> > > I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other

> > than this

> > > house.

> > > You can play with other houses if you want

> > >

> > > Child: crying

> > >

> > > Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

> > (child:

> > > yes).

> > > Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand

> you

> > >

> > > Child: crying

> > >

> > > Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

> > >

> > > Child: crying

> > >

> > > Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

> > >

> > > After a while he calmed down

> > >

> > > Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise

> > crying.

> > >

> > > I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> > > I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here,

> > and if he

> > > feels that he wants to cry

> > > I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

> > Bathroom and

> > > close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment but

> > because

> > > I need quiet.

> > > So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to

> > cry and

> > > it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is willing

> > to be

> > > quiet so she would let him out.

> > > It worked, he went out and was quiet.

> > >

> > > Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

> > communicate: ask

> > > for what he wants and not cry for it.

> > > By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

> > while he

> > > cries (manipulation).

> > >

> > > Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

> > world, his

> > > mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

> > much noise

> > > it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

> > choose to go

> > > out by obeying her rules.

> > >

> > > That was lesson one, I gave her

> > > And I learn it from .

> > >

> > > Any responses?

> > >

> > > T

> > >

April 25, 2006

I wanted to keep you posted

After one day of a little discipline to this little urchin

Carmit told me that yesterday and today for the first time he went to bed at

21:00

Without putting a fight.

Usually he goes to sleep at 23:00!!!

And when he wakes up, he doesn't cry like he always does

She is amazed from the change

I have a story that explain the fast change

This child use to cry all the time cause that was his way to achieve things

When he cried his mom felt guilty and wanted to make him happy

So she all the time tried to please him, and he all the time was not

satisfied.

I told her that his happiness is not her business

And when she will stop seeing her job as a mom to please him all day long...

Anyway she thank me all the time, he barely cry, and he is more happy

Of course, when there is no one out there to be manipulate to his drama

The show is over!

I want to say one thing

I don't think that this is THE WAY to be with children

That is the way I would I recommended my friend that her child was all day

long crying and arguing with her on everything

I saw her, and I saw how exhausted she is, so I gave her this advice to help

her out.

Now, she doesn't need to fight with him, and he seem to be happy to, hey, he

stopped crying.

-- Re: Re: children

I just have to reply, here, to this and the part of Tami's post where the

child was placed in the bathroom when he was sad and crying.

Specifically about that boy - perhaps he was experimenting with his power

of influence, but I do not think highly of the rejection inherent in

abandoning the child without his consent. There are other ways to get the

point across.

The example of the child being 'put away' when sad and crying is about the

epitome of conditional love, in my opinion.

Besides - what is it that is being triggered when we 'can't take it' when

a child has messy and out-of-control feelings? What do we feel threatened

by? Many of the wisest sources say it is our own unmet childhood emotions

that are triggered and surface as a result of exposure to children's

emotions. When we 'put them away in another room and leave them alone' -

that's what we're doing to our own inner child (the turnaround) - as well as

to that particular 'outer' child! The pattern will continue as long as

there is the *underlying belief* that 'children should be seen and not heard

..

Also, that child in your story Tami - I guarantee you he learned all his

moves from his mommy. Children are the most perfect mirrors of all. Do you

lock her in the bathroom when she is manipulative? Well, I'll bet someone,

at some time, DID lock her away when she expressed her feelings too loudly.

Then she found the more sophisticated tools of persuasion that are available

to adults who want to get their way but have learned that they can't express

it directly. In other words - adults can often be very manipulative, too -

they just use methods that are less obvious than children do. But - why not

turn the label of *manipulative* around, anyway - see what you find?

I do, however, value the method of discussion you used with him to get

your own needs met. I'm not so sure that I believe that it was in the best

interest of the child, however, except to serve the purpose of making him

acceptable in the eyes of adults by means of his behavior (conditional love)

He was behaving the way he was as a four year old's way of telling you

something isn't right in his life. Perhaps he was feeling jealous that his

mommy's attention was not on him, but was perhaps on you? That is common in

single-parent families. His mommy probably spends a lot of time working

since she is the sole provider/caregiver, so he feels insecure about their

bond. He's probably already picked up on the underlying belief that adults

matter more than children, so when his mommy has an adult friend over to her

home - he might feel threatened (a very normal response for his age - he is

still quite small).

I am not advocating *no response* to children's haywire emotions, but I

think it would be good to do The Work on why you need HIM to behave

differently or else be away from you. And - since you are not a mother,

yourself, and someone else pointed out the very relevant factor that you

probably do have much more patience b/c you are not mothering 24/7, then you

can put that freshness into your effort to do The Work on the situation.

B/c, really, if you were sad and crying and someone put you in the

bathroom and told you that you couldn't come out until you were done, wouldn

t you feel like your acceptance by others was totally conditional?

nel stevens wrote:

There was a book called " how to control your child " or maybe " how to

tame your toddler " .

From the little i read it said that the best way to keep a child

happy is to lock it in a room when it has a crying fit. For as long as

it takes. It is said that they like that.

I wouldn't know if it's a good thing, but to me it seems better than

having to reason with a little child... how do parents do it.

nel

>

> I have a friend who rase her child on her own

> (yes yes, she is a single mom).

>

> Her child all the time complains, cries, and doesn't get no for an

answer.

>

> He is the boss and Carmit tries all the time to please him so that

he would

> be happy.

>

> Well, don't be too sad reading this,

> Cause I came to her rescue!

>

> I was at her home today, and her child wanted me to get up from the

carpet

> So he could play on it (it has a picture of roads and houses on it).

> He didn't ask me, he just started to cry.

>

> Now it was my business too, so I decided to talk to him

> And you know me, I never try to please anyone not even a 4 years old

crying

> child.

>

> ANyway he cried so I asked him: what do you want?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I am sorry, honey. I want to help you but I cannot cause I don't

> understand a word you say.

>

> Child: crying and shouting at me: move move.

>

> Tami: I am sorry honey, if you want me to do something, you need to

ask for

> it. What do you want?

> (playing dammy, teaching him to communicate, Dahh)

>

> Child: crying, shouting.

>

> Tami: it is ok to cry, if that is what you want. But if you want me

to do

> something you need to ask me.

> I don't understand.

>

> Child: move move (crying)

>

> Tami: listen, if you ask me nicely, I will move. Can you do it?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you know how to ask nicely? I will teach you. All you need to

do is to

> say to me: tami I want you to move, please. You don't need to cry. I

will be

> happy to move but I need you to ask.

>

> Child: please move.

>

> Tami: I would love to move but I am too selfish... No NO I dint say

that.

> I said: ok, I am moving. Thank you for asking.

>

> After a while, I was sitting at the sofa with my legs on the carpet.

> He was playing with some cars on the carpet and than he came to me and

> started to cry cause I had one leg on one of the houses on the

carpet. He

> cried that was his old way to tell me: move.

>

> Again, I did the same thing. Told him that when he cries I don't

understand.

> After a long battle he did ask me nicely to move.

>

> Tami: I really want to please but I cannot.

> I am sitting on this sofa and I have no place to put my legs other

than this

> house.

> You can play with other houses if you want

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: you want me to move (child: yes) I understand. You Are mad?

(child:

> yes).

> Well honey, it is ok to cry, and it is ok to be mad. I understand you

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: do you have any suggestion where I should put my legs?

>

> Child: crying

>

> Tami: I understand, it is very painful not to get what you want.

>

> After a while he calmed down

>

> Than he found another thing to cry about. And he did a lot of noise

crying.

>

> I said to my friend. If I was his mom, I know what I will do.

> I will ask him to stop crying cause I need some quiet around here,

and if he

> feels that he wants to cry

> I cannot control his behavior so I would just put him in the

Bathroom and

> close the door, and explain him why I do it, not as a punishment but

because

> I need quiet.

> So she did it. He was crying there and I told her that he needs to

cry and

> it is ok. And every once in a while she can ask him if he is willing

to be

> quiet so she would let him out.

> It worked, he went out and was quiet.

>

> Basically what I told her that she should learn him how to

communicate: ask

> for what he wants and not cry for it.

> By only responding to a clear request and not communicate wit him

while he

> cries (manipulation).

>

> Second, she can teach him that he is not the only person in the

world, his

> mom has needs too for example she need quiet and when he makes to

much noise

> it is ok, but he will do it in the bathroom and he can always

choose to go

> out by obeying her rules.

>

> That was lesson one, I gave her

> And I learn it from .

>

> Any responses?

>

> T

>

April 25, 2006

A child cry

Your story: he is sad.

Can you know that?

In his case he cries to get what he want. It is a pattern that he has for 4

years now.

I know it cause he cries almost all day long when he is out of the bethroom,

while his wimp mom tries to please him, with not much success.

He is put away, not as a punishment

He is put away cause momy need quiet.

And he was told that when he finish crying he could get out.

His mom after 1 day of setting bounderies told me that he changed.

She is happier cause he doesn't fight with her anymore