Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 So... has feeling guilty ever helped? Am 11.04.2006 um 03:06 schrieb mrcitrus6: > dear andy, Im letting down my husband and so i feel guilty because he > works and doesnt like his job. > When he walks in the door he hopes i have gotten a job and i > havent hardly looked yet and so i feel guilty. > My sons are adult and left home. > > Uvie.. my husband and i have been married 28 years and i like to be > alone a lot as well. > As soon as he walks in the door i feel guilty.He loves to go over our > bills and his salary and say I need to work some day NExt week i might > go back to work. after passover. Im giving up work for lent > love,roslyn > > > > > >> >> Why not?.. be in my business.. Im unemployed and feel somewhat guilty >> for not looking for work yet. I dont want to work >> >> >> *****Who WANTS to work??!! " Work " is a four-letter word to most >> people (this writer excepted as he genuinely enjoys teaching and >> spending time with people). Unless there is a passion driving one to >> do some form of work, work is just that: work! :-))) >> >> Guilt is a feeling. Underlying it are beliefs, and underneath those >> are Core Beliefs. If the sensation of guilt is unpleasant, you >> may be >> moved to explore, inquire, discover what are the beliefs which are >> driving the sense of guilt over not working. And I'm not suggesting >> that the guilt is not well-placed: if you are a mommy with two kids >> and by not working you're not feeding or clothing your children, then >> it seems guilt is a sound motivator (the kids are DEPENDENT on you). >> But if it is only about you, then, where is the guilt? Who are you >> letting down by not working? >> >> >> >> and speaking of work. I am avoiding doing the work.. but since you >> said Ill do the work when its time.. thats good.. Ill also get a job >> when it is time. >> >> >> *****Right! The innate conditioning-in-the-moment which IS Rosyln >> can >> do no other than what is dictated by the programming. If you need $$ >> to pay the rent or feed or cloth yourself, then, maybe, you will seek >> out work. >> >> >> Thank you i wont beat myself up for that then. >> >> >> *****If you can, it sounds more peaceful a way to be: unemployed and >> serene about it. >> >> >> Happy being at home keying emails, I wish I was funny like tami and >> mary but oh well.. its not my choice, >> >> >> *****If you REALLY get that (or if it gets you!), you won't wish to >> funny or beautiful or charming or... you may still experience those >> wishes but they will be empty of any emotive value. Sure they cans >> till appear. At one moment they arise, pop! into consciousness.... " I >> wish I were... " This kind of thing will happen. And, like a doorbell >> ring, ping! you'll notice it. >> >> The difference is that instead of being carried away by waves of >> associated thoughts that build on the feeling and deepen the sense of >> entification (creating more of a " me-network " ), the thought will >> just...die, having been seen through as exactly what it is: a >> thought. >> > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 11, 2006 Report Share Posted April 11, 2006 dear andy, Im letting down my husband and so i feel guilty because he works and doesnt like his job. When he walks in the door he hopes i have gotten a job and i havent hardly looked yet and so i feel guilty. My sons are adult and left home. *****What blocks Roslyn from actually working and bringing home some money? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 12, 2006 Report Share Posted April 12, 2006 Dear A > *****What blocks Roslyn from actually working and bringing home some > money? I am not Roslyn however I dont have a job either so I want to try to answer your question. What blocks me from working? My honest answer would be: I dont realy want to work I feel that working is something I cannot to. However what is the deferent between my activitise and working? The deferent is that when you have a job, you get paid and when I do what I do, no one pays me. So I can do what I do, I just need to find someone to pay me for that... Anyone wants to pay me for being who I am? T Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 dear FEeling guilty has never helped. I also feel guilty for not meditating. It has never worked. Good reason to drop it. But its easier said than done. I also worry too much. its all the past and the future garbage. My husband loves Eckart .. I know that is the best way to live in the now.. I would think Eckart would be popular in Germany Is he ? He was unemployed two years after his awakening experience . He sat on park benches but does not elaborate on it. Since i am not enlightened i would hate to sit on a park bench.. oh well. love, r -- In Loving-what-is , wrote: > > So... > > has feeling guilty ever helped? > > Am 11.04.2006 um 03:06 schrieb mrcitrus6: > > > dear andy, Im letting down my husband and so i feel guilty because he > > works and doesnt like his job. > > When he walks in the door he hopes i have gotten a job and i > > havent hardly looked yet and so i feel guilty. > > My sons are adult and left home. > > > > Uvie.. my husband and i have been married 28 years and i like to be > > alone a lot as well. > > As soon as he walks in the door i feel guilty.He loves to go over our > > bills and his salary and say I need to work some day NExt week i might > > go back to work. after passover. Im giving up work for lent > > love,roslyn > > > > > > > > > > > >> > >> Why not?.. be in my business.. Im unemployed and feel somewhat guilty > >> for not looking for work yet. I dont want to work > >> > >> > >> *****Who WANTS to work??!! " Work " is a four-letter word to most > >> people (this writer excepted as he genuinely enjoys teaching and > >> spending time with people). Unless there is a passion driving one to > >> do some form of work, work is just that: work! :-))) > >> > >> Guilt is a feeling. Underlying it are beliefs, and underneath those > >> are Core Beliefs. If the sensation of guilt is unpleasant, you > >> may be > >> moved to explore, inquire, discover what are the beliefs which are > >> driving the sense of guilt over not working. And I'm not suggesting > >> that the guilt is not well-placed: if you are a mommy with two kids > >> and by not working you're not feeding or clothing your children, then > >> it seems guilt is a sound motivator (the kids are DEPENDENT on you). > >> But if it is only about you, then, where is the guilt? Who are you > >> letting down by not working? > >> > >> > >> > >> and speaking of work. I am avoiding doing the work.. but since you > >> said Ill do the work when its time.. thats good.. Ill also get a job > >> when it is time. > >> > >> > >> *****Right! The innate conditioning-in-the-moment which IS Rosyln > >> can > >> do no other than what is dictated by the programming. If you need $$ > >> to pay the rent or feed or cloth yourself, then, maybe, you will seek > >> out work. > >> > >> > >> Thank you i wont beat myself up for that then. > >> > >> > >> *****If you can, it sounds more peaceful a way to be: unemployed and > >> serene about it. > >> > >> > >> Happy being at home keying emails, I wish I was funny like tami and > >> mary but oh well.. its not my choice, > >> > >> > >> *****If you REALLY get that (or if it gets you!), you won't wish to > >> funny or beautiful or charming or... you may still experience those > >> wishes but they will be empty of any emotive value. Sure they cans > >> till appear. At one moment they arise, pop! into consciousness.... " I > >> wish I were... " This kind of thing will happen. And, like a doorbell > >> ring, ping! you'll notice it. > >> > >> The difference is that instead of being carried away by waves of > >> associated thoughts that build on the feeling and deepen the sense of > >> entification (creating more of a " me-network " ), the thought will > >> just...die, having been seen through as exactly what it is: a > >> thought. > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 Tami .. your answer is also my answer.. I dont want to work. I applied for a job today and said my husband wants me to work.. I dont think i will get the job.. but im leaving it up to God. I didnt interview very well. DAmn .. I suppose I should want to work. Good luck tami on your tarot business. love, r -- In Loving-what-is , " Tami " wrote: > > Dear A > > > *****What blocks Roslyn from actually working and bringing home some > > money? > > I am not Roslyn however I dont have a job either so I want to try to > answer your question. > > What blocks me from working? > > My honest answer would be: I dont realy want to work > I feel that working is something I cannot to. > > However what is the deferent between my activitise and working? > > The deferent is that when you have a job, you get paid > and when I do what I do, no one pays me. > > So I can do what I do, I just need to find someone to pay me for > that... > > Anyone wants to pay me for being who I am? > > T > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 dear FEeling guilty has never helped. I also feel guilty for not meditating. *****What is guilt, anyway? If we use a word, we should be clear on what it means, what we are saying. Let's see. Two primary definitions of " guilt " are: (1) Remorseful awareness of having done something wrong. and (2) Self-reproach for supposed inadequacy or wrongdoing. So....you are not meditating. Is that wrong (definition 1)? Or is not meditating a " supposed inadequacy or wrongdoing " on your part? If you are so inspired, look at it. It has never worked. Good reason to drop it. But its easier said than done. *****Yes, I quite agree. You didn't create the feeling (nor the thought(s) behind it) so you can't uncreate it. What is possible to do is to simply observe that that is what you are feeling and seek the thought(s) behind the feeling. I also worry too much. its all the past and the future garbage. My husband loves Eckart .. I know that is the best way to live in the now.. *****It is always " in the now. " There is no other time. Anything else is a mental fabrication. When you are fantasizing about the future, you are DOING that NOW. See? I would think Eckart would be popular in Germany Is he ? He was unemployed two years after his awakening experience . He sat on park benches but does not elaborate on it. Since i am not enlightened *****How can you be sure? Again, maybe it would be useful to narrow down, as explicitly as possible, what you mean when you use the word " enlightened. " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 14, 2006 Report Share Posted April 14, 2006 dear andy,, ok everything is in the now.. ok. however i tend to dwell on the past and future . Enlightened for me means living in a happy dream. like eckart and katie. and other people who cannot see a problem. For me the dream is usually a nightmare i guess i beleive lies. I think others are enlightened some days. Tami and mary andy and others etc some days. I have both definitions of guilt guilt for doing things wrong when i should know better by now. and with meditation self reproach for inadequacy when i have been told by every spiritual book to meditate. I suppose i take it seriously so i just dont do it at all. WEll i do somedays. love, r -- In Loving-what-is , " Andy " wrote: > > > > dear FEeling guilty has never helped. > I also feel guilty for not meditating. > > > *****What is guilt, anyway? If we use a word, we should be clear on > what it means, what we are saying. Let's see. Two primary > definitions of " guilt " are: (1) Remorseful awareness of having done > something wrong. and (2) Self-reproach for supposed inadequacy or > wrongdoing. So....you are not meditating. Is that wrong (definition > 1)? Or is not meditating a " supposed inadequacy or wrongdoing " on > your part? If you are so inspired, look at it. > > > > It has never worked. > Good reason to drop it. But its easier said than done. > > > *****Yes, I quite agree. You didn't create the feeling (nor the > thought(s) behind it) so you can't uncreate it. What is possible to > do is to simply observe that that is what you are feeling and seek > the thought(s) behind the feeling. > > > > I also worry too much. its all the past and the future garbage. > My husband loves Eckart .. I know that is the best way to live in the > now.. > > > *****It is always " in the now. " There is no other time. Anything > else is a mental fabrication. When you are fantasizing about the > future, you are DOING that NOW. See? > > > I would think Eckart would be popular in Germany Is he ? > He was unemployed two years after his awakening experience . > He sat on park benches but does not elaborate on it. Since i am not > enlightened > > > *****How can you be sure? Again, maybe it would be useful to narrow > down, as explicitly as possible, what you mean when you use the > word " enlightened. " > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Dear R, Am 14.04.2006 um 22:37 schrieb mrcitrus6: > dear FEeling guilty has never helped. > > I also feel guilty for not meditating. > > It has never worked. > > Good reason to drop it. But its easier said than done. Well, don't drop it! It's just good to know there is a reason to drop it. And it's also interesting to see it never made me meditate any more. Sometime we are afraid of inquiring into a thought, because we believe it could cost us money, love, friendship, made us loose something... I should look for a job. - notice how it feels when you don't have this thought. When you sleep, everythings ok, isn't it? Although you don't have a job. And I would feel more likely to look for a job, without remorse over anything. I mean, what kind of job could that get me, anyway? Do a work on your husband. You say he doesn't like his job. Is that true? I mean, he says so. And he goes there, over and over. Doesn't he? So, can you really know he doesn't like his job? What do you say? You know, I used to tell people how horrible my job is. And I did not look for another one. I did not try to find a job that would be more fun. But when I tell people that I HAVE to do something I don't want to do... it used to be a way for me to steal compassion. Which, of course, didn't work, either. And I am not saying that that's what your husband is doing. But can you REALLY know he doesn't like his job? What's your proof? Have you ever even looked for a hint, that he might like what he's doing? > I also worry too much. its all the past and the future garbage. Well, sometimes it doesn't feel that way. And when it doesn't FEEL that way, there's no way I can talk myself into feeling it. So write down your garbage of the past and future. And investigate. Just to be sure you know what you're talking about. > My husband loves Eckart .. I know that is the best way to live in the > now... Yes. For him. Because that's what he's doing. > I would think Eckart would be popular in Germany Is he ? He is known by some people. > He was unemployed two years after his awakening experience. > > He sat on park benches but does not elaborate on it. Since i am not > > enlightened i would hate to sit on a park bench.. oh well. Oh, Roslyn, is that true? What is there to hate to sit on a park bench? You get to take in the sun, listen to the birds... experience LIFE. Just get clear about what part of it you hate. It may not have anything to do with the park bench! And if it does, get off the bench! Sit on the floor, instead! > love, r Love, ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 15, 2006 Report Share Posted April 15, 2006 Your right mike doesnt totally hate his job.. he gets paid. and we have benefits. Id hate to sit on a park bench as there are no showers and no place to eat.. or sleep however if i had to do it It could be fun for awhile maybe. like camping. Would a person develop more trust in God? maybe Thanks , r > > Dear R, > > Am 14.04.2006 um 22:37 schrieb mrcitrus6: > > > dear FEeling guilty has never helped. > > > > I also feel guilty for not meditating. > > > > It has never worked. > > > > Good reason to drop it. But its easier said than done. > Well, don't drop it! It's just good to know there is a reason to drop > it. > And it's also interesting to see it never made me meditate any more. > > Sometime we are afraid of inquiring into a thought, because we > believe it could cost us money, love, friendship, made us loose > something... > > I should look for a job. - notice how it feels when you don't have > this thought. When you sleep, everythings ok, isn't it? Although you > don't have a job. > > And I would feel more likely to look for a job, without remorse over > anything. I mean, what kind of job could that get me, anyway? > > Do a work on your husband. You say he doesn't like his job. > > Is that true? > > I mean, he says so. And he goes there, over and over. Doesn't he? > > So, can you really know he doesn't like his job? What do you say? > > You know, I used to tell people how horrible my job is. And I did not > look for another one. I did not try to find a job that would be more > fun. But when I tell people that I HAVE to do something I don't want > to do... it used to be a way for me to steal compassion. Which, of > course, didn't work, either. And I am not saying that that's what > your husband is doing. But can you REALLY know he doesn't like his > job? What's your proof? Have you ever even looked for a hint, that he > might like what he's doing? > > > > I also worry too much. its all the past and the future garbage. > Well, sometimes it doesn't feel that way. And when it doesn't FEEL > that way, there's no way I can talk myself into feeling it. So write > down your garbage of the past and future. And investigate. Just to be > sure you know what you're talking about. > > > My husband loves Eckart .. I know that is the best way to live in the > > now... > Yes. For him. Because that's what he's doing. > > > I would think Eckart would be popular in Germany Is he ? > He is known by some people. > > > He was unemployed two years after his awakening experience. > > > > He sat on park benches but does not elaborate on it. Since i am not > > > > enlightened i would hate to sit on a park bench.. oh well. > Oh, Roslyn, is that true? What is there to hate to sit on a park > bench? You get to take in the sun, listen to the birds... experience > LIFE. > Just get clear about what part of it you hate. It may not have > anything to do with the park bench! > > And if it does, get off the bench! > Sit on the floor, instead! > > > love, r > Love, > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Well, you sit on a park bench, and you have a beautiful time, you are camping, the sun shines, you listen to the birds and smell the trees... And all of a sudden, something shifts, and it is not ok with you, anymore. What made this shift happen, for you? Love, Am 16.04.2006 um 06:06 schrieb mrcitrus6: > > Your right mike doesnt totally hate his job.. he gets paid. > and we have benefits. > Id hate to sit on a park bench as there are no showers and no place to > eat.. or sleep > however if i had to do it It could be fun for awhile maybe. like > camping. > Would a person develop more trust in God? maybe > Thanks , r ___________________________________________________________ Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Thank you for asking I am sitting in the park and all of the sudden comes the thought: I am hungry, from where am I going to acheive my next meal? And going to people and asking for food is too hard for me. I wonder why? Can you help me with that, ? T > Well, you sit on a park bench, and you have a beautiful time, you are > camping, the sun shines, you listen to the birds and smell the trees... > > And all of a sudden, something shifts, and it is not ok with you, > anymore. > > What made this shift happen, for you? > > Love, > > > Am 16.04.2006 um 06:06 schrieb mrcitrus6: > > > > > Your right mike doesnt totally hate his job.. he gets paid. > > and we have benefits. > > Id hate to sit on a park bench as there are no showers and no place to > > eat.. or sleep > > however if i had to do it It could be fun for awhile maybe. like > > camping. > > Would a person develop more trust in God? maybe > > Thanks , r > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Well, you sit on a park bench, and you have a beautiful time, you are camping, the sun shines, you listen to the birds and smell the trees... *****This is one picture. Another could be: you sit on a park bench, you have a lousy time, the weather is cold and rainy, the sky is bleak and cloudy, the temperature bitter, the air smells of rotting vegetation. *****Until she is ACTUALLY sitting there, who knows how it will be? And all of a sudden, something shifts, and it is not ok with you, anymore. What made this shift happen, for you? *****Someone snuck up behind her and mugged her! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 16, 2006 Report Share Posted April 16, 2006 Id hate to sit on a park bench as there are no showers and no place to eat.. or sleep however if i had to do it It could be fun for awhile maybe. like camping. ******Can you SEE that this is all thought? It is not reality. You just can't have any true knowledge of how it would be to sit on a park bench until you are SITTING on the park bench. Any else is the dream of the ego. I invite you to SEE just how much of your life, day in and day out, is a movement away from reality (what is), into the dreamscape of thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 >>>> Well, you sit on a park bench, and you have a beautiful time, you >>>> are >>>> camping, the sun shines, you listen to the birds and smell the >>>> trees... >>> *****This is one picture. Another could be: you sit on a park >>> bench, >>> you have a lousy time, the weather is cold and rainy, the sky is >>> bleak >>> and cloudy, the temperature bitter, the air smells of rotting >>> vegetation. >>> *****Until she is ACTUALLY sitting there, who knows how it will >>> be? >> Yes, take whatever looks more peaceful to you. >> People don't seem to mind so much when they shift from a place of >> stress to a place of peace. >> I don't. > ----->OK. That's you. I know of some who find an on-going sense of > peace to be, in their words, " boring. " They tell me that when peace > predominates they find themselves missing the drama, the mood > swings, the ups and downs. If I am missing something, I don't feel peace. Boredom is not peace, in my experience. It's more " being stuck " , isn't it? *****I agree: boredom is not peace. What is boredom? As I understand it, it is a feeling (thought + physical sensation) of blandness, an absence of stimulation (either mental and/or physical). The people I was speaking of above, have told me that they find the combination of upset + subsequent " settling down, " the kind of rollercoaster emotional ride they live, the drama, to be " what life is all about. " They get upset, distressed, frightened, angry, ... whatever ... and then, at some point, the emotional center shifts away from that and there is a consequential change. This movement is what they enjoy. This movement is not what I would call boredom. This movement is not, as I understand it, a sense of quietude or serenity. Quietude, serentiy, those feelings are what they say they find boring. >>>> And all of a sudden, something shifts, and it is not ok with you, >>>> anymore. >>>> What made this shift happen, for you? >>> *****Someone snuck up behind her and mugged her! >> And what's wrong with that? > ----->Hmmmm....you're right . Nothing wrong with spending > ten days in a hospital bed with your mouth wired-shut. Nothing > wrong with losing your bimonthly paycheck and rent money (over 2500 > USD). Some people I know, personally, who WERE mugged, found a LOT > wrong with it. (The second one referred to above, a lady, also had > the distinct......pleasure......of spending 36 hours in a beating- > induced coma when she attempted to protect her pocketbook > containing her paycheck [which had been transferred to cash only > minutes before at a bank]. A year later and she still experiences > cognitive problems due to the coma. But, yes, you're right. > There's nothing wrong with that.) And that's later. After being mugged. *****Sure, that is true. But your observation is nonetheless specious. The " after " is, in this case, intimately tied in with the " event " (mugging). The two are inextricably entwined and to separate them is deceptive. Furthermore, in the first case, the mugging, the " now " event, entailed the action of having a crowbar strike the jaw of the person getting mugged, thus shattering teeth and bones, tearing facial skin. THAT is part of the " now " mugging. If nothing else there is a physical sensation (a moment after the event) of " ouch! " I'm not sure what you meant by " there's nothing wrong with [getting mugged], " but the events that I referred to certainly strike me, at least on one level, as " wrong " (as in " wrong " to physically assault people...I wouldn't teach my children to do this except in self-defense). This is not to argue with reality, to deny that such actions happen. Clearly they do. (And that doesn't mean that it necessarily pleases us either.) It is to see that such actions are not in anyone's best interests (the person doing and the person receiving the violence), and to see this is to be moved to provide the environment whereby others may also come to see it. But if that's too drastical... a lot of people loose their peace without someone sneaking up behind them, without being mugged. *****Absolutely. Although I would qualify what you wrote this way: " a lot of people loose their *sense* of peace... " since peace is omnipresent and never gone (just.....forgotten). And if the above experience is the worst that could happen when sitting on a park bench, let's work with that. And I don't feel that you would need it. *****Who KNOWS! what is the " worst " that could happen! I was just pointing out that it is a possible outcome of sitting on a bench. I suppose imagination can spin out all kinds of horror stories about what is " the worst that could happen. " Each bodymind mechanism has its own " worst " fear. When it is seen (by no one) that all fear is thought, that is the beginning and the end of the mysterie. ;-) And I don't think it adresses Roselyn's fear, in this case, does it? *****No. I was addressing it to you in response to your comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 17, 2006 Report Share Posted April 17, 2006 Dear Andy, thank you for this conversation. >> If I am missing something, I don't feel peace. Boredom is not peace, >> in my experience. >> >> It's more " being stuck " , isn't it? > *****I agree: boredom is not peace. What is boredom? As I > understand it, it is a feeling (thought + physical sensation) of > blandness, an absence of stimulation (either mental and/or > physical). I don't understand: how can there be an absence of stimulation? That would be, like, sleep? > The people I was speaking of above, have told me that > they find the combination of upset + subsequent " settling down, " the > kind of rollercoaster emotional ride they live, the drama, to > be " what life is all about. " They get upset, distressed, frightened, > angry, ... whatever ... and then, at some point, the emotional center > shifts away from that and there is a consequential change. This > movement is what they enjoy. This movement is not what I would call > boredom. This movement is not, as I understand it, a sense of > quietude or serenity. Quietude, serentiy, those feelings are what > they say they find boring. Well, the people you were speaking of above, talked to *you*, so they are *your* teachers. So where is it you are going with what they say? >>>>>> And all of a sudden, something shifts, and it is not ok with you, >>>>>> anymore. >>>>>> What made this shift happen, for you? >>>>> *****Someone snuck up behind her and mugged her! >>>> And what's wrong with that? >>> ----->Hmmmm....you're right . Nothing wrong with spending >>> ten days in a hospital bed with your mouth wired-shut. Nothing >>> wrong with losing your bimonthly paycheck and rent money (over 2500 >>> USD). Some people I know, personally, who WERE mugged, found a LOT >>> wrong with it. (The second one referred to above, a lady, also had >>> the distinct......pleasure......of spending 36 hours in a beating- >>> induced coma when she attempted to protect her pocketbook >>> containing her paycheck [which had been transferred to cash only >>> minutes before at a bank]. A year later and she still experiences >>> cognitive problems due to the coma. But, yes, you're right. >>> There's nothing wrong with that.) >> And that's later. After being mugged. > *****Sure, that is true. But your observation is nonetheless > specious. The " after " is, in this case, intimately tied in with > the " event " (mugging). The two are inextricably entwined and to > separate them is deceptive. Why? She could have experienced something else. She could have been saved, she could have gotten away without being injured, she could have died. Just to name a few. > Furthermore, in the first case, the > mugging, the " now " event, entailed the action of having a crowbar > strike the jaw of the person getting mugged, thus shattering teeth > and bones, tearing facial skin. THAT is part of the " now " mugging. Ok, but what does have to do with the bench? > If nothing else there is a physical sensation (a moment after the > event) of " ouch! " I'm not sure what you meant by " there's nothing > wrong with [getting mugged], " I didn't say that. You did. And you may have been sarcastic. I asked you to tell me what is wrong with being mugged. Because I hear that was what took your peace from being at the bench. > but the events that I referred to > certainly strike me, at least on one level, as " wrong " (as in " wrong " > to physically assault people...I wouldn't teach my children to do > this except in self-defense). Good for you. I wouldn't hit someone, because I know how much it hurts *me*. And I may forget that, I could believe my life is endangered! > This is not to argue with reality, to deny that such actions happen. > Clearly they do. (And that doesn't mean that it necessarily pleases > us either.) It is to see that such actions are not in anyone's best > interests (the person doing and the person receiving the violence), > and to see this is to be moved to provide the environment whereby > others may also come to see it. Well, it has to be in everyone's best interest. Because it happened. He is her teacher. She is your teacher. You are my teacher. You see, in my world this never happened. For all I know you could have just made that up. And it affects me, nontheless. I feel very uneasy to think of such a situation. Fear and anger arise, when I look at the pictures. Do I need that? I don't think so. And I can explore where the fear and anger comes from. Because I know I have to take care of my part, first. And make amends. For my own sake. And I'll suffer, until I take care of that part in myself. >> But if that's too drastical... a lot of people loose their peace >> without someone sneaking up behind them, without being mugged. > *****Absolutely. Although I would qualify what you wrote this > way: " a lot of people loose their *sense* of peace... " since peace is > omnipresent and never gone (just.....forgotten). That would be more accurate, yes. What else is there to loose, but the perception. >> And if the above experience is the worst that could happen when >> sitting on a park bench, let's work with that. And I don't feel that >> you would need it. > *****Who KNOWS! what is the " worst " that could happen! I was just > pointing out that it is a possible outcome of sitting on a bench. Well, as far as I can see, the bench has nothing to do with it. > I suppose imagination can spin out all kinds of horror stories about > what is " the worst that could happen. " Each bodymind mechanism has > its own " worst " fear. Exactly. That's what we can inquire into. Show me your fears, because I am too blind to see mine. > When it is seen (by no one) that all fear is > thought, that is the beginning and the end of the mysterie. ;-) Well, let's start with us. >> And I don't think it adresses Roselyn's fear, in this case, does it? > *****No. I was addressing it to you in response to your comment. Thank you. Love, ___________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 Hey ~ >> It's more " being stuck " , isn't it? > *****I agree: boredom is not peace. What is boredom? As I > understand it, it is a feeling (thought + physical sensation) of > blandness, an absence of stimulation (either mental and/or > physical). I don't understand: how can there be an absence of stimulation? That would be, like, sleep? #####Mental stimulation....being an involved sense of " me " in whatever thoughts are arising. > The people I was speaking of above, have told me that > they find the combination of upset + subsequent " settling down, " the > kind of rollercoaster emotional ride they live, the drama, to > be " what life is all about. " They get upset, distressed, frightened, > angry, ... whatever ... and then, at some point, the emotional center > shifts away from that and there is a consequential change. This > movement is what they enjoy. This movement is not what I would call > boredom. This movement is not, as I understand it, a sense of > quietude or serenity. Quietude, serentiy, those feelings are what > they say they find boring. Well, the people you were speaking of above, talked to *you*, so they are *your* teachers. #####Yes........Everything teaches everything. So where is it you are going with what they say? #####I'll tell you when I get there. >>>>>> And all of a sudden, something shifts, and it is not ok with you, >>>>>> anymore. >>>>>> What made this shift happen, for you? >>>>> *****Someone snuck up behind her and mugged her! >>>> And what's wrong with that? >>> ----->Hmmmm....you're right . Nothing wrong with spending >>> ten days in a hospital bed with your mouth wired-shut. Nothing >>> wrong with losing your bimonthly paycheck and rent money (over 2500 >>> USD). Some people I know, personally, who WERE mugged, found a LOT >>> wrong with it. (The second one referred to above, a lady, also had >>> the distinct......pleasure......of spending 36 hours in a beating- >>> induced coma when she attempted to protect her pocketbook >>> containing her paycheck [which had been transferred to cash only >>> minutes before at a bank]. A year later and she still experiences >>> cognitive problems due to the coma. But, yes, you're right. >>> There's nothing wrong with that.) >> And that's later. After being mugged. > *****Sure, that is true. But your observation is nonetheless > specious. The " after " is, in this case, intimately tied in with > the " event " (mugging). The two are inextricably entwined and to > separate them is deceptive. Why? She could have experienced something else. She could have been saved, she could have gotten away without being injured, she could have died. Just to name a few. #####What we are dickering with here is what is meant by " being mugged, " yes. I was understanding " being mugged " as the violent act itself and thus her getting away without being injured was not a possibility since, for me, " being mugged " is considered the violence. In the absence of the violence, all that happened is she gave someone some money. :-)) > Furthermore, in the first case, the > mugging, the " now " event, entailed the action of having a crowbar > strike the jaw of the person getting mugged, thus shattering teeth > and bones, tearing facial skin. THAT is part of the " now " mugging. Ok, but what does have to do with the bench? #####Huh? That was just the setting for my comment, based on your previous statement. My original comment about her getting mugged was, as Tami pointed out, somewhat jocular. I was kinda making a joke. And, at the same time, having grown up in the " wild " streets of NYC, this type of incident (being mugged while sitting on a park bench) has happened. So it was just a cautionary note (said somewhat in jest). The bench, itself, was only the setting for the comment. You put her on the bench, anyway. :-)) > If nothing else there is a physical sensation (a moment after the > event) of " ouch! " I'm not sure what you meant by " there's nothing > wrong with [getting mugged], " I didn't say that. You did. And you may have been sarcastic. #####No, there was no sarcasm. I was pointing out a possible outcome of sitting on a bench. (Having grown up in NYC, such an event is not unheard of.) You are absolutely correct. I distorted what you said. Another flip of the mind. You asked a question: " What's wrong with [getting mugged]? " which I misrepresented as your saying " there's nothing wrong with [getting mugged]. " BIG difference. I apologize. I asked you to tell me what is wrong with being mugged. Because I hear that was what took your peace from being at the bench. #####My peace? I wasn't on the bench. I didn't get mugged. The thought that she might get mugged did not take the peace away. It was a pretty innocuous thought, actually. Quite harmless. > This is not to argue with reality, to deny that such actions happen. > Clearly they do. (And that doesn't mean that it necessarily pleases > us either.) It is to see that such actions are not in anyone's best > interests (the person doing and the person receiving the violence), > and to see this is to be moved to provide the environment whereby > others may also come to see it. Well, it has to be in everyone's best interest. Because it happened. He is her teacher. She is your teacher. You are my teacher. You see, in my world this never happened. For all I know you could have just made that up. And it affects me, nontheless. I feel very uneasy to think of such a situation. Fear and anger arise, when I look at the pictures. Do I need that? I don't think so. #####Sure you do. " Because it happened. " (To quote you, above.) And I can explore where the fear and anger comes from. Because I know I have to take care of my part, first. And make amends. For my own sake. And I'll suffer, until I take care of that part in myself. #####I wonder why some people have such issues with feeling uneasy. Such a feeling can, at times, be an intelligent message to avoid doing something (or not doing something). What's the problem with feeling uneasy? And what is the problem with fear, similarly. Such a feeling can be an wise behavior modifier. Even anger. In the moment that they arise, I see no issue with any emotion. When they become debilitating is when they linger on and on and on and when they are projected into a future scenario thus causing anxiousness about something that has actually NEVER occurred. >> But if that's too drastical... a lot of people loose their peace >> without someone sneaking up behind them, without being mugged. > *****Absolutely. Although I would qualify what you wrote this > way: " a lot of people loose their *sense* of peace... " since peace is > omnipresent and never gone (just.....forgotten). That would be more accurate, yes. What else is there to loose, but the perception. >> And if the above experience is the worst that could happen when >> sitting on a park bench, let's work with that. And I don't feel that >> you would need it. > *****Who KNOWS! what is the " worst " that could happen! I was just > pointing out that it is a possible outcome of sitting on a bench. Well, as far as I can see, the bench has nothing to do with it. #####Back to the bench are you? :-)) OK. Forget the bench!! > I suppose imagination can spin out all kinds of horror stories about > what is " the worst that could happen. " Each bodymind mechanism has > its own " worst " fear. Exactly. That's what we can inquire into. Show me your fears, because I am too blind to see mine. #####Oh, I doubt that. When they get strident enough, you see them, you hear them. Sometimes the volume just has to be turned up sufficiently. > When it is seen (by no one) that all fear is > thought, that is the beginning and the end of the mysterie. ;-) Well, let's start with us. #####There is no one else. There never was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 18, 2006 Report Share Posted April 18, 2006 > Hey ~ Hey! >>>> It's more " being stuck " , isn't it? >>> *****I agree: boredom is not peace. What is boredom? As I >>> understand it, it is a feeling (thought + physical sensation) of >>> blandness, an absence of stimulation (either mental and/or >>> physical). >> I don't understand: how can there be an absence of stimulation? That >> would be, like, sleep? > #####Mental stimulation....being an involved sense of " me " in > whatever thoughts are arising. I don't think there is such a thing as boredom, when there is no sense of " me " . And if there is, it is about having a thought that something should be different. If I am bored, I shut out everything that could be fun. >>> The people I was speaking of above, have told me that >>> they find the combination of upset + subsequent " settling down, " the >>> kind of rollercoaster emotional ride they live, the drama, to >>> be " what life is all about. " They get upset, distressed, >>> frightened, >>> angry, ... whatever ... and then, at some point, the emotional >>> center >>> shifts away from that and there is a consequential change. This >>> movement is what they enjoy. This movement is not what I would call >>> boredom. This movement is not, as I understand it, a sense of >>> quietude or serenity. Quietude, serentiy, those feelings are what >>> they say they find boring. >> Well, the people you were speaking of above, talked to *you*, so they >> are *your* teachers. > #####Yes........Everything teaches everything. > >> So where is it you are going with what they say? > #####I'll tell you when I get there. Ok! >>>>>>>> And all of a sudden, something shifts, and it is not ok with >>>>>>>> you, >>>>>>>> anymore. >>>>>>>> What made this shift happen, for you? >>>>>>> *****Someone snuck up behind her and mugged her! >>>>>> And what's wrong with that? >>>>> ----->Hmmmm....you're right . Nothing wrong with >>>>> spending >>>>> ten days in a hospital bed with your mouth wired-shut. Nothing >>>>> wrong with losing your bimonthly paycheck and rent money (over >>>>> 2500 >>>>> USD). Some people I know, personally, who WERE mugged, found a LOT >>>>> wrong with it. (The second one referred to above, a lady, also >>>>> had >>>>> the distinct......pleasure......of spending 36 hours in a beating- >>>>> induced coma when she attempted to protect her pocketbook >>>>> containing her paycheck [which had been transferred to cash only >>>>> minutes before at a bank]. A year later and she still experiences >>>>> cognitive problems due to the coma. But, yes, you're right. >>>>> There's nothing wrong with that.) >>>> And that's later. After being mugged. >>> *****Sure, that is true. But your observation is nonetheless >>> specious. The " after " is, in this case, intimately tied in with >>> the " event " (mugging). The two are inextricably entwined and to >>> separate them is deceptive. >> Why? She could have experienced something else. She could have been >> saved, she could have gotten away without being injured, she could >> have died. >> Just to name a few. > #####What we are dickering with here is what is meant by " being > mugged, " yes. I was understanding " being mugged " as the violent act > itself and thus her getting away without being injured was not a > possibility since, for me, " being mugged " is considered the > violence. In the absence of the violence, all that happened is she > gave someone some money. :-)) Well, yes. But the mugging starts, and the " mugger " may run away before applying brutality. Still, he mugged me. And when I have been mugged, and lie in the hospital, and I suffer about the mugging... the other guy stopped mugging me some time ago. How long does it take, until I can stop? >>> Furthermore, in the first case, the >>> mugging, the " now " event, entailed the action of having a crowbar >>> strike the jaw of the person getting mugged, thus shattering teeth >>> and bones, tearing facial skin. THAT is part of the " now " mugging. >> Ok, but what does have to do with the bench? > #####Huh? That was just the setting for my comment, based on your > previous statement. My original comment about her getting mugged > was, as Tami pointed out, somewhat jocular. I was kinda making a > joke. And, at the same time, having grown up in the " wild " streets > of NYC, this type of incident (being mugged while sitting on a park > bench) has happened. So it was just a cautionary note (said somewhat > in jest). The bench, itself, was only the setting for the comment. > You put her on the bench, anyway. :-)) Yes, that was the statement. I fear to be homeless and have to sit on a bench. That's what I started with. >>> If nothing else there is a physical sensation (a moment after the >>> event) of " ouch! " I'm not sure what you meant by " there's nothing >>> wrong with [getting mugged], " >> I didn't say that. You did. And you may have been sarcastic. > #####No, there was no sarcasm. I was pointing out a possible outcome > of sitting on a bench. (Having grown up in NYC, such an event is not > unheard of.) You are absolutely correct. I distorted what you > said. Another flip of the mind. You asked a question: " What's wrong > with [getting mugged]? " which I misrepresented as your > saying " there's nothing wrong with [getting mugged]. " BIG > difference. I apologize. Oh, don't! You'll do it again, anyway! >> I asked you to tell me what is wrong with being mugged. Because I >> hear that was what took your peace from being at the bench. > #####My peace? I wasn't on the bench. I didn't get mugged. The > thought that she might get mugged did not take the peace away. It > was a pretty innocuous thought, actually. Quite harmless. So, what's fearful of sitting on a bench, now? Is there any? Anyone, who can relate? >>> This is not to argue with reality, to deny that such actions happen. >>> Clearly they do. (And that doesn't mean that it necessarily pleases >>> us either.) It is to see that such actions are not in anyone's best >>> interests (the person doing and the person receiving the violence), >>> and to see this is to be moved to provide the environment whereby >>> others may also come to see it. >> Well, it has to be in everyone's best interest. Because it happened. >> He is her teacher. >> She is your teacher. >> You are my teacher. >> You see, in my world this never happened. For all I know you could >> have just made that up. And it affects me, nontheless. I feel very >> uneasy to think of such a situation. Fear and anger arise, when I >> look at the pictures. >> >> Do I need that? I don't think so. > #####Sure you do. " Because it happened. " (To quote you, above.) Yes, I needed it at the time. To become aware of what I haven't resolved, yet. Until it stops. I notice that doing the work, and investigating throughly, helps to understand it. >> And I can explore where the fear and anger comes from. Because I know >> I have to take care of my part, first. And make amends. For my own >> sake. And I'll suffer, until I >> take care of that part in myself. > #####I wonder why some people have such issues with feeling uneasy. > Such a feeling can, at times, be an intelligent message to avoid > doing something (or not doing something). What's the problem with > feeling uneasy? And what is the problem with fear, similarly. Such > a feeling can be an wise behavior modifier. Even anger. In the > moment that they arise, I see no issue with any emotion. When they > become debilitating is when they linger on and on and on and when > they are projected into a future scenario thus causing anxiousness > about something that has actually NEVER occurred. Yes. And as far as I've seen, most things NEVER occured. When the feeling is fear... as in " wise behavior modifier " ... I have trouble even labelling it " fear " or " cause of behaviour " . It's more like: I do what I do and on TOP of that, is fear. Or: there is fear AND the label of fear. And if I undo the thought I am afraid of, only behaviour remains. I don't care what happens, when I am at peace. Look at two people in a dangerous situation. One is fearful, the other one is calm. Who is more likely to take care of himself? Or look at yourself in a dangerous situation. In what state do you feel more ... in the mood to take a good decision? For me the answer is very clear. My experience with emotions such as anger, fear, desperation, even love... is that it is *very* hard to keep the illusion of control. Or to make a " sane " decision. But you may have an example of what you are talking about. >>>> But if that's too drastical... a lot of people loose their peace >>>> without someone sneaking up behind them, without being mugged. >>> *****Absolutely. Although I would qualify what you wrote this >>> way: " a lot of people loose their *sense* of peace... " since peace >>> is >>> omnipresent and never gone (just.....forgotten). >> >> That would be more accurate, yes. What else is there to loose, but >> the perception. > >>>> And if the above experience is the worst that could happen when >>>> sitting on a park bench, let's work with that. And I don't feel >>>> that >>>> you would need it. >>> *****Who KNOWS! what is the " worst " that could happen! I was just >>> pointing out that it is a possible outcome of sitting on a bench. >> Well, as far as I can see, the bench has nothing to do with it. > #####Back to the bench are you? :-)) OK. Forget the bench!! I can't! Thank you for asking. >>> I suppose imagination can spin out all kinds of horror stories about >>> what is " the worst that could happen. " Each bodymind mechanism has >>> its own " worst " fear. >> Exactly. That's what we can inquire into. Show me your fears, because >> I am too blind to see mine. > #####Oh, I doubt that. When they get strident enough, you see them, > you hear them. Sometimes the volume just has to be turned up > sufficiently. Well, " you " are the one with the volume. I can't turn it up. And yes, eventually I'll hear them. What I am saying is, that as far as I am concerned, you show them to me. No matter how loud you have to become. >>> When it is seen (by no one) that all fear is >>> thought, that is the beginning and the end of the mysterie. ;-) >> Well, let's start with us. > #####There is no one else. There never was. I'll go for the illusion, thank you. Love, ___________________________________________________________ Gesendet von Yahoo! Mail - Jetzt mit 1GB Speicher kostenlos - Hier anmelden: http://mail.yahoo.de Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 20, 2006 Report Share Posted April 20, 2006 THe shift for me is the thought that you need to have a job. And the worry over money and bills. ANd jealousy for people who work and especially those who like their job. Yesterday while sitting outside starbucks coffee i decided that i would just enjoy being unemployed and stop worrying about work.. I was doing the work on i need a job. I decided for now I didnt and when i got home i had a message and i got a job.However its a night shift job.. so i dont know if i will like it or not. I dont like the idea of working nights but it maybe only for a month as they might have a day shift job later. Im happy to have a job but i also enjoy being off. -time will tell. i think its so interesting that you found out about one job right when the other ended.. I would say that means your suppose to work there.. its in divine order. I hope i will like nights and be ok with that. Im not sure if i will or not .I even have thought about going back to my old job.. to see if they would have me. but now i am confused I suppose i could call them and ask. Love, r -- In Loving-what-is , wrote: > > Well, you sit on a park bench, and you have a beautiful time, you are > camping, the sun shines, you listen to the birds and smell the trees... > > And all of a sudden, something shifts, and it is not ok with you, > anymore. > > What made this shift happen, for you? > > Love, > > > Am 16.04.2006 um 06:06 schrieb mrcitrus6: > > > > > Your right mike doesnt totally hate his job.. he gets paid. > > and we have benefits. > > Id hate to sit on a park bench as there are no showers and no place to > > eat.. or sleep > > however if i had to do it It could be fun for awhile maybe. like > > camping. > > Would a person develop more trust in God? maybe > > Thanks , r > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted April 21, 2006 Report Share Posted April 21, 2006 So, first it wasn't ok for you not to have a job. Now you do have one, and you are worried whether you'd like it! And it sounds to me like: I'd be much better off, if I was the guy over there! Love, mrcitrus6 schrieb: THe shift for me is the thought that you need to have a job. And the worry over money and bills. ANd jealousy for people who work and especially those who like their job. Yesterday while sitting outside starbucks coffee i decided that i would just enjoy being unemployed and stop worrying about work.. I was doing the work on i need a job. I decided for now I didnt and when i got home i had a message and i got a job.However its a night shift job.. so i dont know if i will like it or not. I dont like the idea of working nights but it maybe only for a month as they might have a day shift job later. Im happy to have a job but i also enjoy being off. -time will tell. i think its so interesting that you found out about one job right when the other ended.. I would say that means your suppose to work there.. its in divine order. I hope i will like nights and be ok with that. Im not sure if i will or not .I even have thought about going back to my old job.. to see if they would have me. but now i am confused I suppose i could call them and ask. Love, r -- In Loving-what-is , wrote: > > Well, you sit on a park bench, and you have a beautiful time, you are > camping, the sun shines, you listen to the birds and smell the trees... > > And all of a sudden, something shifts, and it is not ok with you, > anymore. > > What made this shift happen, for you? > > Love, > > > Am 16.04.2006 um 06:06 schrieb mrcitrus6: > > > > > Your right mike doesnt totally hate his job.. he gets paid. > > and we have benefits. > > Id hate to sit on a park bench as there are no showers and no place to > > eat.. or sleep > > however if i had to do it It could be fun for awhile maybe. like > > camping. > > Would a person develop more trust in God? maybe > > Thanks , r > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________________ > Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted July 26, 2006 Report Share Posted July 26, 2006 Dear R I was fearful not cause I was afraid to fail I was hoping to fail and not to get the job I was afraid I will suffer there for 2 hours About the coffee shop job I am working on it But something good came out of this thing I realized that I am not graphic designer, Cause it causes me too much stress If you would tell me to simply be with people Smile to them and get a pay check for that I wouldn't have any problem doing that So I am going to do graphologic test to identify my qualification And I will attend to jobs that are more sutable to me T -- Re: work I cant say for sure.. but maybe your putting too much stress around succeeding at a job.. Maybe if you went to work with no end result in mind.. just show up and see what happens.. why didnt you sleep what was your fear?... mine is of failing.. whatever happened to the job at a coffee shop.. I thought that would be a great job for you. sounds to me as if there is stress for you on working and also on not working but working you get a pay check.. Would they let you try again i wonder? maybe they would.. . WE are always harder on ourselves. love, roslyn -- In Loving-what-is , Tami wrote: > > I was suppose to go for my first day of work today > I didn't sleep all night I was too fearful I felt that it is too much for me > And I cannot handle it > So as the clock rang this morning I turn him off > And went back to sleep > I woke up latter on feeling guilty depressed and hopeless > I will never find a job!!!!! > > So what is the truth of it: > > I am not suppose to work > > Or > > Me not working is an outcome of my fears > > I am confused > > , I want to do the work with you on skype on that issue > I am confused about the one liner. > > If you have a little time from your work > Just to say hi, please call me: > 972-2-3333026 > > Any of you who wants to give me a call > Be my guest > > I feel in a dead end, T > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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