Re: package from momster after 10 months of NC

[Guest guest]

IaYiayii- totally hear you and understand (though not exactly) what

you mean w/the package. I told my nada last X-mas no more gifts-

none. So she sends second son a b-day check enclosed in his b-day

card in April. Got ripped up. Next for my b-day she send a giftcard

inside the card- still need to find a women's shelter to give that

one to. When dh got his b-day card, he cracked me up. Just rolled

down the window as we pulled into the garage and pitched it in the

trash. Then ds1's b-day was last month and since he's nada's

favorite, she really pushed the 'envelope' this time and sent a

package- b-day gifts and all. Dh threw it in the trash but my

curiosity got the better of me and I got it out and unwrapped it- all

top of the line Gymboree clothes I'm going to return for girls

clothes for a single mom friend of mine...her daughter. I totally

hear you w/curiosity getting the better of you though. I'm totally

prey to that and I think maybe next time I won't be- who knows. I do

know the picture nada enclosed for my son of herself was really

scarey. She was wearing all red and has her eyebrows now plucked so

that they constantly make an upsidedown V over her eyes- looks

perpetually angry like the insides have always looked to me. She

really looked like a she-devil in the picture and dh saw it in the

garage the next day and said it scared him so bad that he instantly

went 'oooo' and picked it up like it had Anthrax on it and threw it

in the trash- lol. He understood why my curiosity got the better of

me though even though I really wanted him to throw it in the trash

like he did. I guess I felt too curious still and like maybe just

maybe it would be worth opening. It never is. I'll just throw it all

in the trash now. Fingers crossed, Christmas coming up.

Best wishes. I'm sure you'll make the right decision even if its the

wrong decision like I made- its part of the growing away process and

healing process and finding out what you need to do to make this more

real for you- its not easy grieving the loss of a mother- even a

horrible mother.

I really wish you had the 10K to make a preimptive strike against

your nada. Nothing worse than their screwing w/the court system and

your family life like they are apt to do. I honestly remember your

previous posts on this topic and really felt just awful for you.

Best wishes.

Kerrie

>

> Hi everyone, I'm one of the newbies that reads a lot, identifies

with

> a lot, and gets A LOT of inside support from hearing I'm not the

> crazy one (like my family thinks!)

>

> I posted an intro awhile back, and now I have a problem I'd really

> appreciate some voices of experience giving me some input on.

We're

> all handling some pretty sick people in our lives, and honestly

> other " normal " people just don't get it. The normals wouldn't

> understand why my dilemma is even an issue. But you guys know...

>

> Basic story is that after I retrieved my child from momster

basically

> kidnapping her and getting an unjustified court order in her state

to

> keep her, momster hasn't written or called either of us at all.

She

> does have my sister call, and that just sucks. I don't talk to her

> anymore but grieve the loss with sister.

>

> Momster's doing the whole " martyr " routine because she claims she

was

> doing the work of god in taking daughter from me, and then the

> ungrateful little brat wanted to go back home to me. Phht... My

girl

> came home when girl told momster's lawyer that she wanted to get

the

> hell out of dodge and away from grandmomster so she could come back

> to me. She did, and is very glad to be with me, where she's always

> lived except for this nightmare in our lives.

>

> Fast forward to today, with a court order still in place for A LOT

of

> things I have to tread carefully on, or risk the warpath momster

will

> get on when she feels like f'ing with me or daughter again. Today

I

> get a large manila envelope with what feels like a book inside and

> its addressed to me. That's a first, she has sent me NOTHING since

I

> picked up my daughter.

>

> Momster has sent the kiddo a couple things, like magazines, direct

to

> her. Along with other little missiles like a newspaper clipping of

> the graduating class of middle school that she enrolled my daughter

> in while grandma kept her. Nice stuff, that grandma, she sends nice

> stuff huh?

>

> So this isn't for my daughter, its for me. I am no contact with her

> for eternity in my book, unless its something to comply with the

b.s.

> court order momster won't let go of even though daughter fought to

> come home and has been here 10 months. Momster won't ever let go of

> the court order until kiddo is 18, trust me, I know her. If I had

> $10,000 I'd get it lifted, but until then I just take care of my

> daughter and wait for momster to get bored with her life and come

> fuck with mine and daughter's. Sadly I figure its just a matter of

> time

>

> About the package...my daughter wants to open it so she can " laugh

> her ass off " at what ridiculous stuff grandmomster sent me.

> I don't want to. I know there is NO GOOD to come of opening it.

> I'd even bet it would feel great to mark it " return to sender "

> and 'refused'. BUT that would probably fire up momster to come

with

> bigger guns.

>

> I figure this package is something subtly condemning of me. She's

> famous for that type of thing. Like a book she sent before when I

> was LC. It was called " The Overly Sensitive Person " and it was sent

> so I could " deal with myself and my daughter because we were SO

> SENSITIVE! "

>

> So I have pitched the package aside because I don't even want to

look

> at it. I DON'T WANT IT IN MY HOUSE!

> But there is a little part of me that wants to open it. Maybe for a

> laugh and a shake of the head? Maybe because it would give me some

> written proof of how f'ed up she is. Proof I can hang onto and show

> myself (and my new boyfriend even) to remind me of just how bad she

> really is and maybe show him a reality he is trying to understand

> about my family...

>

> I figure there is a letter in there, of course, she was always a

> letter writer. She'd write condemnations in words signed with " god

> loves you, love mom " and the like. Puke puke puke.

>

> I just have this gut instinct of disgust when I see it. Got a hot

> burning face when I saw it in my mailbox. I think its safe to say

> that if I open it that there will be NO GOOD.

> BUT with the court crap hanging over me, returning it isn't wise.

> If I just pitch it, then doesn't momster get some sick pleasure

from

> its delivery being complete??

>

> What would you do?

>

> Thank you...I could really use some voices of experience

(especially

> a couple of you I look forward to reading posts from!)

> phoenixsilverfire

>

[Guest guest]

phoenixsilverfire,

Hi... Ah, a package dilemma! I've had one of those this week, so I'm

not the person with any good advice here but... I know how hard it is,

to know what to do with it.

One thing you asked was, if you pitch it, does it give her

satisfaction cuz it was delivered. IMO, no, that gives her less

satisfaction than if you sent it back. If you send it back, she knows

(1) she rattled your cage and (2) you regard it (and her) as worthy of

the time and attention of sending it back.

Good luck!

Janie

[Guest guest]

Thank you so much Kerrie, for sharing your own struggle with those

longings to have a mother that cares for you. Your writing of how you

kept hoping that those mail missives would be something good really

hit home.

I did open the package. It was, as I thought, a christian book and a

letter saying " god told me to send this to you. " Sigh...

The book was one about forgiveness. And what really is crazy is that

this woman, my mother, has constantly demanded I forgive my

pedophile, physically abusive father for his acts against me, even

though the offender refuses to seek reconciliation. Momster still

demands I " forgive " the man. I've had a problem with that. I've dealt

with PTSD from the sexual and physical abuse he perpetrated against

me. Meanwhile, momster moved away, lived her own life, then returned

with demands I forgive this monster of a father. Mmmkay...that's

just f'ing WRONG in my book.

So to get this book on forgiveness was one of those final nails. Bad

enough I had a worthless father. Add to that a momster that stole my

child and kept her until child screamed to be let loose, and then

momster had no contact for 10 months, only to be followed by a book

and a letter about how I'M SUPPOSED TO FORGIVE AND FORGET is just too

much. Its insanity. It really is.

So here I sit, aware again that I have NO parents. No family. Except

the daughter I love fiercely. The daughter that momster is trying to

get thru her little missives to me. And I'll be damned if I'll let

that sick bitch contaminate further the beautiful waters that are the

daughter I love. No way no how.

I'm sure that the missive out of the blue will be followed by

more " hoover " attempts. Its how momster has always operated. I have 3

years and 2 months left under her bullshit court order until I'm

free. God help me if this last missile isn't the final weapon I

needed to bury her future missiles right where they belong: in a

grave marked DO NOT OPEN UNTIL YOUR DAUGHTER IS 18 (that's when

momster's court order expires.)

I'm sure this sounds like a crazy rant, but I figure when stuff like

this comes out of the blue, this is hopefully a place I can rant

safely. I'm sure as heck not gonna bother to write anything to

momster. No point in that, and it would only add fuel to the fire

she's intent on keeping stoked.

[Guest guest]

Well, if you noticed my earlier post, I opened the damn package.

After I did I realized why I did it. I STILL HOPED that there would

be a shred of human decency in the woman that gave birth to me. Well

I had false hope. Now I feel like kicking the shit out of someone,

but I won't. I will process it in time, and realize that there is

only a dry empty well there that is guaranteed to give me pain and

suffering. I am not willing to live a life of pain and suffering

anymore, so this was probably a good thing to have happen.

Now if someone could just tell me what they think the whole sick

purpose is of the package. I guess I know better than to bother to

think its about something " normal " like reconciliation, respect and

honesty. Momster isn't capable and I'm not that stupid anymore. So,

about the package, I was right, the package had a letter and a book.

Its probably laughable if you aren't in my shoes, but its even

laughable to me in some sick way. Its a christian book about god's

grace in forgiveness. That's right, forgiveness. Now of course in

this package there was no request for me to forgive my momster for

taking my daughter, filing all the court stuff, and then not

communicating about any of it, even 10 months after my daughter came

back home. Nope, nothing like that.

Instead its a cover letter declaring that god told her to send this

book to me. Gee....Although she made no request for forgiveness in

her letter, she did write the following classic BPD dodgeball moves:

Dear phoenixsilvefire: when I saw this book at the Christian

book online store, I immediately thought it would be a good book to

read as well as a great gift to give to someone. I was not

specifically thinking of you when I bought 2 copies. Well, once I

began to read it, I did think of you phoenix. I believe god has laid

it on my heart to send it to you. There are no strings attached or

ulterior motives by me sending you this book. I am simply obeying

the leading of God and as you are aware by now, l I try to obey God

when He tells me to do something. Hence, I am sending you this

book. I hope you enjoy reading it. I think it is a fine book.

The book is a joke...I can see why she used it as a club to beat me

over the head with via the United States Postal Service.

So based on experience, I can:

1. Expect more crap from her in the mail

2. Expect a phone call anytime soon now with a " hi! how are you?! "

(but of course with no mention of the last time I saw her being when

I retrieved daughter from her house and she wouldn't speak to me or

look me in the eye.)

Geez, this stuff is crazy as I read what I write...anyone else ever

see it that way? bleh....I'm going to bed :/

I sure hope morning brings a new fresh attitude. I'm shoving this

package somewhere I don't have to see, that is until I can take it to

a nice roaring fire and burn it.

Phoenixsilver

[Guest guest]

Wow, the recent thread about nadas and religion -- and YOUR nada's astonishing

belief that she's acting in accordance with God's explicit wishes -- has really

been an eye-opener! I just have to take a breather to process the arrogance

that must go along with the concept that ANYONE has a direct pipe-line to God

and is unquestionably certain of his/her intentions for us or anyone else!!

My nada is a devout Athiest, because in truth she believes herself to be God --

or, in having a God-authority over herself and everyone else.

Anyhow, I really feel for you in having to deal with a nada in a drawn-out legal

proceeding, especially for the custody of your wonderful daughter. It seems

like nadas must be instinctively attracted to the two ultimate authorities in

society: church and the court system.

I'm not really sure what to say about what your nada's package means or what her

ulterior motives are -- I think the most important thing is how you feel about

it and trying not to let yourself get pulled into puzzling through her psycho

symbolism, which is probably exactly what she hopes to get from you! The BPs

want our time and attention, more than anything -- but the most important thing

is your well-being and peace of mind!

I hope you got some good sleep and wake up this morning feeling strong and

refeshed -- and ready to shake off the after-effects of that nasty little

package!

Shana

Re: package from momster after 10 months of NC

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Well, if you noticed my earlier post, I opened the damn package.

> After I did I realized why I did it. I STILL HOPED that there

> would

> be a shred of human decency in the woman that gave birth to me.

> Well

> I had false hope. Now I feel like kicking the shit out of

> someone,

> but I won't. I will process it in time, and realize that there

> is

> only a dry empty well there that is guaranteed to give me pain

> and

> suffering. I am not willing to live a life of pain and

> suffering

> anymore, so this was probably a good thing to have happen.

>

> Now if someone could just tell me what they think the whole sick

> purpose is of the package. I guess I know better than to bother

> to

> think its about something " normal " like reconciliation, respect

> and

> honesty. Momster isn't capable and I'm not that stupid anymore.

> So,

> about the package, I was right, the package had a letter and a

> book.

> Its probably laughable if you aren't in my shoes, but its even

> laughable to me in some sick way. Its a christian book about

> god's

> grace in forgiveness. That's right, forgiveness. Now of course

> in

> this package there was no request for me to forgive my momster

> for

> taking my daughter, filing all the court stuff, and then not

> communicating about any of it, even 10 months after my daughter

> came

> back home. Nope, nothing like that.

>

> Instead its a cover letter declaring that god told her to send

> this

> book to me. Gee....Although she made no request for forgiveness

> in

> her letter, she did write the following classic BPD dodgeball moves:

>

>

> Dear phoenixsilvefire: when I saw this book at the

> Christian

> book online store, I immediately thought it would be a good book

> to

> read as well as a great gift to give to someone. I was not

> specifically thinking of you when I bought 2 copies. Well, once

> I

> began to read it, I did think of you phoenix. I believe god has

> laid

> it on my heart to send it to you. There are no strings attached

> or

> ulterior motives by me sending you this book. I am simply

> obeying

> the leading of God and as you are aware by now, l I try to obey

> God

> when He tells me to do something. Hence, I am sending you this

> book. I hope you enjoy reading it. I think it is a fine book.

>

>

> The book is a joke...I can see why she used it as a club to beat

> me

> over the head with via the United States Postal Service.

>

> So based on experience, I can:

> 1. Expect more crap from her in the mail

> 2. Expect a phone call anytime soon now with a " hi! how are

> you?! "

> (but of course with no mention of the last time I saw her being

> when

> I retrieved daughter from her house and she wouldn't speak to me

> or

> look me in the eye.)

>

> Geez, this stuff is crazy as I read what I write...anyone else

> ever

> see it that way? bleh....I'm going to bed :/

> I sure hope morning brings a new fresh attitude. I'm shoving

> this

> package somewhere I don't have to see, that is until I can take

> it to

> a nice roaring fire and burn it.

> Phoenixsilver

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Phoenix, don't be too hard on yourself -- if anything, this just

strengthens your ability to toss everything from now on. It

continues to prove you right.

As for the book -- I just hate it when people cherry-pick God's

concepts to serve themselves.

If it's a decent book, give it to someone -- get the

negative " cooties " off of it and send it to where it might actually

bless someone....

-Kyla

>

> Well, if you noticed my earlier post, I opened the damn package.

> After I did I realized why I did it. I STILL HOPED that there

would

> be a shred of human decency in the woman that gave birth to me.

Well

> I had false hope. Now I feel like kicking the shit out of

someone,

> but I won't. I will process it in time, and realize that there is

> only a dry empty well there that is guaranteed to give me pain and

> suffering. I am not willing to live a life of pain and suffering

> anymore, so this was probably a good thing to have happen.

>

> Now if someone could just tell me what they think the whole sick

> purpose is of the package. I guess I know better than to bother to

> think its about something " normal " like reconciliation, respect

and

> honesty. Momster isn't capable and I'm not that stupid anymore.

So,

> about the package, I was right, the package had a letter and a

book.

> Its probably laughable if you aren't in my shoes, but its even

> laughable to me in some sick way. Its a christian book about

god's

> grace in forgiveness. That's right, forgiveness. Now of course

in

> this package there was no request for me to forgive my momster for

> taking my daughter, filing all the court stuff, and then not

> communicating about any of it, even 10 months after my daughter

came

> back home. Nope, nothing like that.

>

> Instead its a cover letter declaring that god told her to send

this

> book to me. Gee....Although she made no request for forgiveness

in

> her letter, she did write the following classic BPD dodgeball

moves:

>

>

> Dear phoenixsilvefire: when I saw this book at the Christian

> book online store, I immediately thought it would be a good book

to

> read as well as a great gift to give to someone. I was not

> specifically thinking of you when I bought 2 copies. Well, once I

> began to read it, I did think of you phoenix. I believe god has

laid

> it on my heart to send it to you. There are no strings attached

or

> ulterior motives by me sending you this book. I am simply obeying

> the leading of God and as you are aware by now, l I try to obey

God

> when He tells me to do something. Hence, I am sending you this

> book. I hope you enjoy reading it. I think it is a fine book.

>

>

> The book is a joke...I can see why she used it as a club to beat

me

> over the head with via the United States Postal Service.

>

> So based on experience, I can:

> 1. Expect more crap from her in the mail

> 2. Expect a phone call anytime soon now with a " hi! how are you?! "

> (but of course with no mention of the last time I saw her being

when

> I retrieved daughter from her house and she wouldn't speak to me

or

> look me in the eye.)

>

> Geez, this stuff is crazy as I read what I write...anyone else

ever

> see it that way? bleh....I'm going to bed :/

> I sure hope morning brings a new fresh attitude. I'm shoving this

> package somewhere I don't have to see, that is until I can take it

to

> a nice roaring fire and burn it.

> Phoenixsilver

>

[Guest guest]

Phoenix, WOW Do we have the same mom? Those sound like words of

vomit spewing out of my nadas sour mouth. Except my nadas favorite

term for God is " my chief and commander " I love the typical " I am

obeying God, God told me to now the ball is in your court will you

obey God " Or in other words will you obey Me? Oh they are so

righteous so holy if only we could be so darn good! BARF! Maybe you

could just throw it away. One time I was a teen and I purchased a

book about letting go for my grandnada. I often bought her books for

no special occasion just because I loved her and I knew she enjoyed

reading, she was a widow so books were nice for her before bed time.

Well all the books I had purchased her starting around the age of 16

or so my nada would say oh yeah she will love it. But when I got a

book on letting go nadas reaction was oh no you will not give that

to my mother! She does not need that maybe you should read it

yourself! I was shocked. I just saw the book thought it looked like

a nice book on a happy life and she basically blew my hair back. So

I never gave it to her I still have it and never read it maybe I

will crack it open now, I just might learn something that they

didn't want to learn. Anyways with that book from your nada, toss it

if you want or donate it. You wrote....

" Well, if you noticed my earlier post, I opened the damn package.

After I did I realized why I did it. I STILL HOPED that there would

be a shred of human decency in the woman that gave birth to me. Well

I had false hope. Now I feel like kicking the shit out of someone,

but I won't. I will process it in time, and realize that there is

only a dry empty well there that is guaranteed to give me pain and

suffering. I am not willing to live a life of pain and suffering

anymore, so this was probably a good thing to have happen. "

I understand this I think we all have a shred of hope that nada will

some day turn into mom. Just like a frog turns into a prince but

some fairy tales just don't come true. Don't feel bad it is in all

of us. My best, Love Lizzy

>

> Well, if you noticed my earlier post, I opened the damn package.

> After I did I realized why I did it. I STILL HOPED that there

would

> be a shred of human decency in the woman that gave birth to me.

Well

> I had false hope. Now I feel like kicking the shit out of

someone,

> but I won't. I will process it in time, and realize that there is

> only a dry empty well there that is guaranteed to give me pain and

> suffering. I am not willing to live a life of pain and suffering

> anymore, so this was probably a good thing to have happen.

>

> Now if someone could just tell me what they think the whole sick

> purpose is of the package. I guess I know better than to bother to

> think its about something " normal " like reconciliation, respect

and

> honesty. Momster isn't capable and I'm not that stupid anymore.

So,

> about the package, I was right, the package had a letter and a

book.

> Its probably laughable if you aren't in my shoes, but its even

> laughable to me in some sick way. Its a christian book about

god's

> grace in forgiveness. That's right, forgiveness. Now of course

in

> this package there was no request for me to forgive my momster for

> taking my daughter, filing all the court stuff, and then not

> communicating about any of it, even 10 months after my daughter

came

> back home. Nope, nothing like that.

>

> Instead its a cover letter declaring that god told her to send

this

> book to me. Gee....Although she made no request for forgiveness

in

> her letter, she did write the following classic BPD dodgeball

moves:

>

>

> Dear phoenixsilvefire: when I saw this book at the Christian

> book online store, I immediately thought it would be a good book

to

> read as well as a great gift to give to someone. I was not

> specifically thinking of you when I bought 2 copies. Well, once I

> began to read it, I did think of you phoenix. I believe god has

laid

> it on my heart to send it to you. There are no strings attached

or

> ulterior motives by me sending you this book. I am simply obeying

> the leading of God and as you are aware by now, l I try to obey

God

> when He tells me to do something. Hence, I am sending you this

> book. I hope you enjoy reading it. I think it is a fine book.

>

>

> The book is a joke...I can see why she used it as a club to beat

me

> over the head with via the United States Postal Service.

>

> So based on experience, I can:

> 1. Expect more crap from her in the mail

> 2. Expect a phone call anytime soon now with a " hi! how are you?! "

> (but of course with no mention of the last time I saw her being

when

> I retrieved daughter from her house and she wouldn't speak to me

or

> look me in the eye.)

>

> Geez, this stuff is crazy as I read what I write...anyone else

ever

> see it that way? bleh....I'm going to bed :/

> I sure hope morning brings a new fresh attitude. I'm shoving this

> package somewhere I don't have to see, that is until I can take it

to

> a nice roaring fire and burn it.

> Phoenixsilver

>

[Guest guest]

phoenix-

As I read your post, I totally identified with hoping for a " shred

of human decency in the woman that gave birth to me " . And there is.

Because to her, she's the only one who's " human " and you're being

indecent by not knowing your place.

As far as I'm concerned, you don't need to forgive anybody. Not that

man or your nada for leaving you with him. I think you should sell

the book. Or donate it to your local church. Or burn it. And if nada

calls, don't answer. It she writes, don't respond. If she manages to

weasel through, just remember it won't be forever. You can be

strong, you've proven that already. Just keep it up for a little

longer for your daughter and your own inner child, because they both

need you right now.

And this is totally a safe place to vent. Yes, it's a crazy

situation, but that doesn't mean that all those involved are crazy,

and we know that.

You have every right to be feeling what you're feeling. Keep on

feeling it!

Neko Jaimie

>

> Well, if you noticed my earlier post, I opened the damn package.

> After I did I realized why I did it. I STILL HOPED that there

would

> be a shred of human decency in the woman that gave birth to me.

Well

> I had false hope. Now I feel like kicking the shit out of

someone,

> but I won't. I will process it in time, and realize that there is

> only a dry empty well there that is guaranteed to give me pain and

> suffering. I am not willing to live a life of pain and suffering

> anymore, so this was probably a good thing to have happen.

>

> Now if someone could just tell me what they think the whole sick

> purpose is of the package. I guess I know better than to bother to

> think its about something " normal " like reconciliation, respect

and

> honesty. Momster isn't capable and I'm not that stupid anymore.

So,

> about the package, I was right, the package had a letter and a

book.

> Its probably laughable if you aren't in my shoes, but its even

> laughable to me in some sick way. Its a christian book about

god's

> grace in forgiveness. That's right, forgiveness. Now of course

in

> this package there was no request for me to forgive my momster for

> taking my daughter, filing all the court stuff, and then not

> communicating about any of it, even 10 months after my daughter

came

> back home. Nope, nothing like that.

>

> Instead its a cover letter declaring that god told her to send

this

> book to me. Gee....Although she made no request for forgiveness

in

> her letter, she did write the following classic BPD dodgeball

moves:

>

>

> Dear phoenixsilvefire: when I saw this book at the Christian

> book online store, I immediately thought it would be a good book

to

> read as well as a great gift to give to someone. I was not

> specifically thinking of you when I bought 2 copies. Well, once I

> began to read it, I did think of you phoenix. I believe god has

laid

> it on my heart to send it to you. There are no strings attached

or

> ulterior motives by me sending you this book. I am simply obeying

> the leading of God and as you are aware by now, l I try to obey

God

> when He tells me to do something. Hence, I am sending you this

> book. I hope you enjoy reading it. I think it is a fine book.

>

>

> The book is a joke...I can see why she used it as a club to beat

me

> over the head with via the United States Postal Service.

>

> So based on experience, I can:

> 1. Expect more crap from her in the mail

> 2. Expect a phone call anytime soon now with a " hi! how are you?! "

> (but of course with no mention of the last time I saw her being

when

> I retrieved daughter from her house and she wouldn't speak to me

or

> look me in the eye.)

>

> Geez, this stuff is crazy as I read what I write...anyone else

ever

> see it that way? bleh....I'm going to bed :/

> I sure hope morning brings a new fresh attitude. I'm shoving this

> package somewhere I don't have to see, that is until I can take it

to

> a nice roaring fire and burn it.

> Phoenixsilver

>

[Guest guest]

Hey Lizzy, Phoenix --

I meant to chime in on the " BPDs convenient religious " thread

yesterday but got busy....

My nada's just the opposite -- she trashes people who believe in

God. I happen to have a strong Christian faith, and she loves to

make fun of it. It used to hurt me, now I find it sad because I

think some of the comforts I've gotten from that faith could help

her, too. It might also help her put into perspective the

approaching death of her own mother. Instead of losing her mind,

she might have reflected some gratitude that she had her mother this

long (not everyone does). And it would might also give her comfort

to envision her mother heading to a good place.

As it is, my mother thinks that death is something to be terrified

of -- I personally think because she's never sorted out a higher

power. A place outside of this human realm.

But, I guess God is her primary competition, all those rules about

self-responsibility, making your own way in the world, respecting

others, and servanthood and all......She'd rather go it alone.

-Kyla

> >

> > Well, if you noticed my earlier post, I opened the damn package.

> > After I did I realized why I did it. I STILL HOPED that there

> would

> > be a shred of human decency in the woman that gave birth to me.

> Well

> > I had false hope. Now I feel like kicking the shit out of

> someone,

> > but I won't. I will process it in time, and realize that there

is

> > only a dry empty well there that is guaranteed to give me pain

and

> > suffering. I am not willing to live a life of pain and

suffering

> > anymore, so this was probably a good thing to have happen.

> >

> > Now if someone could just tell me what they think the whole sick

> > purpose is of the package. I guess I know better than to bother

to

> > think its about something " normal " like reconciliation, respect

> and

> > honesty. Momster isn't capable and I'm not that stupid

anymore.

> So,

> > about the package, I was right, the package had a letter and a

> book.

> > Its probably laughable if you aren't in my shoes, but its even

> > laughable to me in some sick way. Its a christian book about

> god's

> > grace in forgiveness. That's right, forgiveness. Now of course

> in

> > this package there was no request for me to forgive my momster

for

> > taking my daughter, filing all the court stuff, and then not

> > communicating about any of it, even 10 months after my daughter

> came

> > back home. Nope, nothing like that.

> >

> > Instead its a cover letter declaring that god told her to send

> this

> > book to me. Gee....Although she made no request for forgiveness

> in

> > her letter, she did write the following classic BPD dodgeball

> moves:

> >

> >

> > Dear phoenixsilvefire: when I saw this book at the

Christian

> > book online store, I immediately thought it would be a good book

> to

> > read as well as a great gift to give to someone. I was not

> > specifically thinking of you when I bought 2 copies. Well, once

I

> > began to read it, I did think of you phoenix. I believe god has

> laid

> > it on my heart to send it to you. There are no strings attached

> or

> > ulterior motives by me sending you this book. I am simply

obeying

> > the leading of God and as you are aware by now, l I try to obey

> God

> > when He tells me to do something. Hence, I am sending you this

> > book. I hope you enjoy reading it. I think it is a fine book.

> >

> >

> > The book is a joke...I can see why she used it as a club to beat

> me

> > over the head with via the United States Postal Service.

> >

> > So based on experience, I can:

> > 1. Expect more crap from her in the mail

> > 2. Expect a phone call anytime soon now with a " hi! how are

you?! "

> > (but of course with no mention of the last time I saw her being

> when

> > I retrieved daughter from her house and she wouldn't speak to me

> or

> > look me in the eye.)

> >

> > Geez, this stuff is crazy as I read what I write...anyone else

> ever

> > see it that way? bleh....I'm going to bed :/

> > I sure hope morning brings a new fresh attitude. I'm shoving

this

> > package somewhere I don't have to see, that is until I can take

it

> to

> > a nice roaring fire and burn it.

> > Phoenixsilver

> >

>

[Guest guest]

Everyone, for replying and giving me encouragement, THANK YOU. I

really needed it, and you've given me words to re-read as I process

where things are really at vs. where I wish they were.

This event showed me at least one thing: In spite of saying I had no

hope from getting anything good from momster, I DID HAVE HOPE. And

that pisses me off. I want to be stronger than that, so I don't keep

getting disappointed. Its hard. Momster's been disappointing me for

35 of my 39 years. You'd think that I'd have learned by now, and I

guess I beat myself up and berate myself for not being able to simply

expect nothing but pain. I KNOW this in my mind, but there's a shred

somewhere (inner child maybe???) that hasn't accepted it.

This just HURTS. I always was angry, even as an 8 year old child,

from severe abuse and mother's abandonment for years as a young

child. Angry was my comfort zone. Well its been a long time coming I

guess for me to reach a point to allow the SHEER SADNESS AND HURT to

be felt. It used to be impossible for me to weep, to mourn my losses

and hurt from these parents I was cursed with. That changed

somewhere along the way a few years ago. It feels good somehow

though, to now mourn rather than rage. The rage is what drove me to

strike back at the pain momster caused over and over. Of course we

all know THAT didn't work. I guess that's what's called enmeshment?

So now what is this called? Grieving? Because I sure can't stand the

thought I have in the back of my head that its just lame self-pity.

Because really, which is stronger? Anger and self-righteous rage at

being violated and repeatedly hurt, or sadness at being hurt? I just

don't know completely which is better, but I think the mourning

respects my little girl inside. She's been much easier to access than

ever before in my life, and I think the hurt is where she's been

hiding. Feeling afraid while I raged.

ok,,,I'm off to work, which yesterday had given me a bouyancy as I

realized I'm ready to move on from this rotten boss into what I've

always had before: professional environment. After the missile

yesterday I have doubts, fears, etc. God I hate that power I let

momster have, and THAT is a huge motivation I'll be talking to my

therapist about tomorrow. Because I guess I just need to hear words

like " This action of your own mother would hurt ANYONE TERRIBLY. "

Somehow I can't believe I'm allowed to be hurt....Am I the only one

that screws around in their head with that issue?

Thanks again...I post on the nook and have observed that this group

is truly cemented, moving on in healing, and a warm circle of care. I

need that I guess, and I've never been one of those " joiner " types.

I've always soldiered on alone. That way nobody could disappoint me

when they inevitably failed me. Sad but true...I'm in places now I

never let walls down to allow. It feels good...and I think its

healthier. I gotta believe it is

e (My real name, and since we all use real names here! My

fear is pretty much out the window that my momster will use my words

here back in court if she ever found this list or sister found it. I

really don't give a rip if she does, because I have a right to speak

out and find understanding damnit!!!)

[Guest guest]

Phoenixsilverfire,

It is horrible what you have just gone through and your daughter. What I

don't understand is what court order she has over you? I would go to the

Department of Human Services and explain the situation, follow their advice and

proceed from there. Each state has different laws and that includes not having

to recognize other state's custody issues. Texas is one such state.

It was running through my head why you didn't call the local authorities about

a kidnapping? I just have a lot of questions. If anyone took my child,

especially my nada, I would cut her in half with the law. Be sure and document

everything she does to you and your daugther. Also, some states will listen to

the child as an adult before they are 18. These are questions you have to get

answers to from legal sources; don't take any other source as the law.

Greg.

phoenixsilverfire wrote:

Hi everyone, I'm one of the newbies that reads a lot, identifies with

a lot, and gets A LOT of inside support from hearing I'm not the

crazy one (like my family thinks!)

I posted an intro awhile back, and now I have a problem I'd really

appreciate some voices of experience giving me some input on. We're

all handling some pretty sick people in our lives, and honestly

other " normal " people just don't get it. The normals wouldn't

understand why my dilemma is even an issue. But you guys know...

Basic story is that after I retrieved my child from momster basically

kidnapping her and getting an unjustified court order in her state to

keep her, momster hasn't written or called either of us at all. She

does have my sister call, and that just sucks. I don't talk to her

anymore but grieve the loss with sister.

Momster's doing the whole " martyr " routine because she claims she was

doing the work of god in taking daughter from me, and then the

ungrateful little brat wanted to go back home to me. Phht... My girl

came home when girl told momster's lawyer that she wanted to get the

hell out of dodge and away from grandmomster so she could come back

to me. She did, and is very glad to be with me, where she's always

lived except for this nightmare in our lives.

Fast forward to today, with a court order still in place for A LOT of

things I have to tread carefully on, or risk the warpath momster will

get on when she feels like f'ing with me or daughter again. Today I

get a large manila envelope with what feels like a book inside and

its addressed to me. That's a first, she has sent me NOTHING since I

picked up my daughter.

Momster has sent the kiddo a couple things, like magazines, direct to

her. Along with other little missiles like a newspaper clipping of

the graduating class of middle school that she enrolled my daughter

in while grandma kept her. Nice stuff, that grandma, she sends nice

stuff huh?

So this isn't for my daughter, its for me. I am no contact with her

for eternity in my book, unless its something to comply with the b.s.

court order momster won't let go of even though daughter fought to

come home and has been here 10 months. Momster won't ever let go of

the court order until kiddo is 18, trust me, I know her. If I had

$10,000 I'd get it lifted, but until then I just take care of my

daughter and wait for momster to get bored with her life and come

fuck with mine and daughter's. Sadly I figure its just a matter of

time

About the package...my daughter wants to open it so she can " laugh

her ass off " at what ridiculous stuff grandmomster sent me.

I don't want to. I know there is NO GOOD to come of opening it.

I'd even bet it would feel great to mark it " return to sender "

and 'refused'. BUT that would probably fire up momster to come with

bigger guns.

I figure this package is something subtly condemning of me. She's

famous for that type of thing. Like a book she sent before when I

was LC. It was called " The Overly Sensitive Person " and it was sent

so I could " deal with myself and my daughter because we were SO

SENSITIVE! "

So I have pitched the package aside because I don't even want to look

at it. I DON'T WANT IT IN MY HOUSE!

But there is a little part of me that wants to open it. Maybe for a

laugh and a shake of the head? Maybe because it would give me some

written proof of how f'ed up she is. Proof I can hang onto and show

myself (and my new boyfriend even) to remind me of just how bad she

really is and maybe show him a reality he is trying to understand

about my family...

I figure there is a letter in there, of course, she was always a

letter writer. She'd write condemnations in words signed with " god

loves you, love mom " and the like. Puke puke puke.

I just have this gut instinct of disgust when I see it. Got a hot

burning face when I saw it in my mailbox. I think its safe to say

that if I open it that there will be NO GOOD.

BUT with the court crap hanging over me, returning it isn't wise.

If I just pitch it, then doesn't momster get some sick pleasure from

its delivery being complete??

What would you do?

Thank you...I could really use some voices of experience (especially

a couple of you I look forward to reading posts from!)

phoenixsilverfire

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

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[Guest guest]

Oh, that is too funny!!!!!!!!

I did open the package. It was, as I thought, a christian book and a

letter saying " god told me to send this to you. " Sigh...

So if she is so tight with God, why doesn't everything go her way?

hahhahahhaha

Greg.

phoenixsilverfire wrote:

Thank you so much Kerrie, for sharing your own struggle with those

longings to have a mother that cares for you. Your writing of how you

kept hoping that those mail missives would be something good really

hit home.

I did open the package. It was, as I thought, a christian book and a

letter saying " god told me to send this to you. " Sigh...

The book was one about forgiveness. And what really is crazy is that

this woman, my mother, has constantly demanded I forgive my

pedophile, physically abusive father for his acts against me, even

though the offender refuses to seek reconciliation. Momster still

demands I " forgive " the man. I've had a problem with that. I've dealt

with PTSD from the sexual and physical abuse he perpetrated against

me. Meanwhile, momster moved away, lived her own life, then returned

with demands I forgive this monster of a father. Mmmkay...that's

just f'ing WRONG in my book.

So to get this book on forgiveness was one of those final nails. Bad

enough I had a worthless father. Add to that a momster that stole my

child and kept her until child screamed to be let loose, and then

momster had no contact for 10 months, only to be followed by a book

and a letter about how I'M SUPPOSED TO FORGIVE AND FORGET is just too

much. Its insanity. It really is.

So here I sit, aware again that I have NO parents. No family. Except

the daughter I love fiercely. The daughter that momster is trying to

get thru her little missives to me. And I'll be damned if I'll let

that sick bitch contaminate further the beautiful waters that are the

daughter I love. No way no how.

I'm sure that the missive out of the blue will be followed by

more " hoover " attempts. Its how momster has always operated. I have 3

years and 2 months left under her bullshit court order until I'm

free. God help me if this last missile isn't the final weapon I

needed to bury her future missiles right where they belong: in a

grave marked DO NOT OPEN UNTIL YOUR DAUGHTER IS 18 (that's when

momster's court order expires.)

I'm sure this sounds like a crazy rant, but I figure when stuff like

this comes out of the blue, this is hopefully a place I can rant

safely. I'm sure as heck not gonna bother to write anything to

momster. No point in that, and it would only add fuel to the fire

she's intent on keeping stoked.

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

Hi Greg.

Just thought I'd add in this thread that I've started new thread. My

reply to your post got long, and it was something I wanted to share

with a different title. For those that may come along here and not

open a thread about the package.

thanks for the questions. They prompted some more processing and a

reminder of just how horrible the whole trial was last year.

e

> Hi everyone, I'm one of the newbies that reads a lot,

identifies with

> a lot, and gets A LOT of inside support from hearing I'm not the

> crazy one (like my family thinks!)

>

> I posted an intro awhile back, and now I have a problem I'd really

> appreciate some voices of experience giving me some input on. We're

> all handling some pretty sick people in our lives, and honestly

> other " normal " people just don't get it. The normals wouldn't

> understand why my dilemma is even an issue. But you guys know...

>

> Basic story is that after I retrieved my child from momster

basically

> kidnapping her and getting an unjustified court order in her state

to

> keep her, momster hasn't written or called either of us at all. She

> does have my sister call, and that just sucks. I don't talk to her

> anymore but grieve the loss with sister.

>

> Momster's doing the whole " martyr " routine because she claims she

was

> doing the work of god in taking daughter from me, and then the

> ungrateful little brat wanted to go back home to me. Phht... My

girl

> came home when girl told momster's lawyer that she wanted to get

the

> hell out of dodge and away from grandmomster so she could come back

> to me. She did, and is very glad to be with me, where she's always

> lived except for this nightmare in our lives.

>

> Fast forward to today, with a court order still in place for A LOT

of

> things I have to tread carefully on, or risk the warpath momster

will

> get on when she feels like f'ing with me or daughter again. Today I

> get a large manila envelope with what feels like a book inside and

> its addressed to me. That's a first, she has sent me NOTHING since

I

> picked up my daughter.

>

> Momster has sent the kiddo a couple things, like magazines, direct

to

> her. Along with other little missiles like a newspaper clipping of

> the graduating class of middle school that she enrolled my daughter

> in while grandma kept her. Nice stuff, that grandma, she sends nice

> stuff huh?

>

> So this isn't for my daughter, its for me. I am no contact with her

> for eternity in my book, unless its something to comply with the

b.s.

> court order momster won't let go of even though daughter fought to

> come home and has been here 10 months. Momster won't ever let go of

> the court order until kiddo is 18, trust me, I know her. If I had

> $10,000 I'd get it lifted, but until then I just take care of my

> daughter and wait for momster to get bored with her life and come

> fuck with mine and daughter's. Sadly I figure its just a matter of

> time

>

> About the package...my daughter wants to open it so she can " laugh

> her ass off " at what ridiculous stuff grandmomster sent me.

> I don't want to. I know there is NO GOOD to come of opening it.

> I'd even bet it would feel great to mark it " return to sender "

> and 'refused'. BUT that would probably fire up momster to come with

> bigger guns.

>

> I figure this package is something subtly condemning of me. She's

> famous for that type of thing. Like a book she sent before when I

> was LC. It was called " The Overly Sensitive Person " and it was sent

> so I could " deal with myself and my daughter because we were SO

> SENSITIVE! "

>

> So I have pitched the package aside because I don't even want to

look

> at it. I DON'T WANT IT IN MY HOUSE!

> But there is a little part of me that wants to open it. Maybe for a

> laugh and a shake of the head? Maybe because it would give me some

> written proof of how f'ed up she is. Proof I can hang onto and show

> myself (and my new boyfriend even) to remind me of just how bad she

> really is and maybe show him a reality he is trying to understand

> about my family...

>

> I figure there is a letter in there, of course, she was always a

> letter writer. She'd write condemnations in words signed with " god

> loves you, love mom " and the like. Puke puke puke.

>

> I just have this gut instinct of disgust when I see it. Got a hot

> burning face when I saw it in my mailbox. I think its safe to say

> that if I open it that there will be NO GOOD.

> BUT with the court crap hanging over me, returning it isn't wise.

> If I just pitch it, then doesn't momster get some sick pleasure

from

> its delivery being complete??

>

> What would you do?

>

> Thank you...I could really use some voices of experience

(especially

> a couple of you I look forward to reading posts from!)

> phoenixsilverfire

>

>

>

>

>

>

> ---------------------------------

> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and

30+ countries) for 2¢/min or less.

>

>

[Guest guest]

I googled the book title momster sent. Interesting description of it

on amazon. it made me wonder just what a random stranger would think

of a mother sending this to a daughter after doing painful things to

daughter and never apologizing? Here is link:

http://www.amazon.com/Embrace-Grace-Liz-Curtis-Higgs/dp/1400072182

[Guest guest]

It does sound like a rant, but a warranted rant and certainly NOT a

crazy rant. That's what nada's do- crazy ranting. You're is justified

at the injustice of the situation. And yes, I totally hear you on the

forgiveness front. When I went home for nada's fiance's funeral in

March (suicide- go figure), she begged and pleaded for my forgiveness

and added in that she forgave me too- ha! Didn't even ask- didn't

even remotely care to take that bait. And i just responded " Well mom,

it is much like you said to me last year, forgiveness is not about

the other person, but setting yourself free. In so far as that goes,

I've forgiven you a long time ago and had to for myself. I just have

come to the opposite conclusion as you with regards to XX's death. I

think if anything his death has taught me (in response to her saying

XX's death has sadly taught her life is too short for bitterness and

fighting and then she went on the shpeal about forgiveness

and 'looking' like she wanted to make up) is that the decisions dh

and I came to at Christmas were the right ones for our family. We

really have no business together as I do not think it is a daughter

you need as much as a therapist. " Oh that went over real well, don't

ya know? " You need a therapist! " Blah,blah.

And in so far as forgiveness goes, your nada is the last to tell you

about that issue. Bps never forgive or else they wouldn't be so

mentally ill. They hold onto anger and grudges for years. And by the

way, forgivenss is more about self as nada says but can't act, and

setting one's self free. BUT, forgiveness and reconcilliation need

not go hand in hand. I think forgiveness is important once the

process is worked through, but I DO NOT remotely be all relationship

that have been forgiven need to have reconcilliation. Just not true

and no therapist or mental health professional would ever make that

statement. Not prudent at all. Not wise.

You are wise to protect your daughter and 'fiercely' as you put it

b/c there are wolves out there waiting to eat her alive

psychologically the way mentally ill people can and do (well this

particular type of mental illness- can't say all OCD people are

diabolical like bps tend to be).

Best wishes to you. And by the way, I don't think that book was from

God. No way, no day. More like the opposite if you ask me.

Kerrie

>

> Thank you so much Kerrie, for sharing your own struggle with those

> longings to have a mother that cares for you. Your writing of how

you

> kept hoping that those mail missives would be something good really

> hit home.

>

> I did open the package. It was, as I thought, a christian book and

a

> letter saying " god told me to send this to you. " Sigh...

>

> The book was one about forgiveness. And what really is crazy is

that

> this woman, my mother, has constantly demanded I forgive my

> pedophile, physically abusive father for his acts against me, even

> though the offender refuses to seek reconciliation. Momster still

> demands I " forgive " the man. I've had a problem with that. I've

dealt

> with PTSD from the sexual and physical abuse he perpetrated against

> me. Meanwhile, momster moved away, lived her own life, then

returned

> with demands I forgive this monster of a father. Mmmkay...that's

> just f'ing WRONG in my book.

>

> So to get this book on forgiveness was one of those final nails.

Bad

> enough I had a worthless father. Add to that a momster that stole

my

> child and kept her until child screamed to be let loose, and then

> momster had no contact for 10 months, only to be followed by a book

> and a letter about how I'M SUPPOSED TO FORGIVE AND FORGET is just

too

> much. Its insanity. It really is.

>

> So here I sit, aware again that I have NO parents. No family.

Except

> the daughter I love fiercely. The daughter that momster is trying

to

> get thru her little missives to me. And I'll be damned if I'll let

> that sick bitch contaminate further the beautiful waters that are

the

> daughter I love. No way no how.

>

> I'm sure that the missive out of the blue will be followed by

> more " hoover " attempts. Its how momster has always operated. I have

3

> years and 2 months left under her bullshit court order until I'm

> free. God help me if this last missile isn't the final weapon I

> needed to bury her future missiles right where they belong: in a

> grave marked DO NOT OPEN UNTIL YOUR DAUGHTER IS 18 (that's when

> momster's court order expires.)

>

> I'm sure this sounds like a crazy rant, but I figure when stuff

like

> this comes out of the blue, this is hopefully a place I can rant

> safely. I'm sure as heck not gonna bother to write anything to

> momster. No point in that, and it would only add fuel to the fire

> she's intent on keeping stoked.

>

[Guest guest]

ugh! I just looked at your book and it made me physically sick. I know exactly

how you

feel. My nada is always trying to get me to read just these sortof things. It

is confusing

and sickening and the child in you believes it is true, that you *do* need to do

what this

book says, and why can't you just admit what a bad person you are and the

terrible things

you have done to your poor nada?

I know those feelings are hard to fight. And then you wish you were strong

enough to not

even feel them--because, there is an explanation for this. It is really only

simple

projection. On some level, nada knows that *she* has the terrible past

behaviour, and she

is the one who must 'embrace grace' (gag) and forgive herself. She is

projecting that onto

you because you can't handle it. It is slimy, it is one of the ugliest forms of

human

behavior. Borderlines really make me cringe sometimes.

You don't have to accept this. It is only projection. Here's what I would do

(sorry for being

a little didactic here): Don't feel bad for buying into it just a

little--that's only the infant in

you who has no other way to eat except by trusting nada to bring the food. That

instinct

is normal; forgive yourself for it, remember you are an adult now, and give

nada's need to

embrace grace right back to her black heart, where it belongs!

Charlotte

>

> I googled the book title momster sent. Interesting description of it

> on amazon. it made me wonder just what a random stranger would think

> of a mother sending this to a daughter after doing painful things to

> daughter and never apologizing? Here is link:

>

> http://www.amazon.com/Embrace-Grace-Liz-Curtis-Higgs/dp/1400072182

>

[Guest guest]

Phoenixsilverfire,

I haven't been there yet, but I've been playing out scenarios in my

mind for future contact.

My advice is to find a friend who your really trust and ask them to

open future packages for you. Ask them to look for anything that

might be dangerous (threats, etc). If the package is " harmless " then

give them the option to keep it, donate it, or chuck it.

That damn curiousity and hope. Get's us every time!

a

[Guest guest]

a, One thing that came to my mind when I looked at the book was

Barf! The second after reading the little description was they

talked about that lady feeling like a failure and feeling unworthy.

Although my nada talks like a spitfire and talks with much

arrogance. I have no doubt she has a low self esteem I think this is

common in a BP. Maybe that is what drew her to the book assuming

that every body feels the same as her because they are unable to

think out of their bubble? Just a thought. I still think it is wrong

she need to say sorry, something most nadas will never do I know

mine never did. She did the same thing w/ court she wanted my kids

after all the abuse to me and my children she had the balls to take

us to court. I am just thinking maybe that was your nada's motive?

Maybe she feels unworthy saw that on the back of the book and was

too full of pride to say it herself, who knows, I am just thinking

with my nada why would she do that if she would and that is what

came to my mind. To my nada that would be close enough to " I'm sorry

but I can't say it now move on and get over it " Hope this idea helps

you. Love Lizzy

>

> I googled the book title momster sent. Interesting description of

it

> on amazon. it made me wonder just what a random stranger would

think

> of a mother sending this to a daughter after doing painful things

to

> daughter and never apologizing? Here is link:

>

> http://www.amazon.com/Embrace-Grace-Liz-Curtis-Higgs/dp/1400072182

>