Guest guest Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 This has been a very debated subject here on the group. I am not starting this debate up again. Just wanted to mention I have NEVER had time to research it. So, about 2 weeks ago thought I'd do an indepth search and research, because a doctor told me that negative ion and the proper amount of ozone in your home is essential to good health and mood, and good air quality. Which surprised me he would even have a clue. Then I thought he was nutz because all I have heard is how bad ozone is for you. So I have been researching it and am amazed at the imformation and studies that are out there. It does seem that these are very essential to good health, mood and indoor air quality. Especially if your home is closed up or insulated well w/the heat or A/C running. From what I have been able to find negative ion is good and doesn't need to monitored, and should be present when running your A/C. Ozone of course as we all know can do damage to the lungs. But, it seems that it also benefits the lungs if in the proper amounts. As with anything we all have to do our own research and make our own decisions. I have just heard ozone talked about so much (all the negative) that I thought I'd investigate and learn myself. Still researching it but found it very interesting. The one thing I found to be very interesting was this. I have heard it mentioned here how we all feel better when by the water. Someone here was living in the mountains and said they felt awesome when there. It has to do w/the fact that there is so much more negative ion and ozone in those area's than say the city. The negative ion is a mood stimulant because it reduces the serotonin released into our bodies. Like sunlight reduces melatonin. If you deplete or don't have enough negative ion it increases the seratonin so that you enter a depression stage, fatigue, drowsiness, anxiety. Plus, there is a ton of other stuff they are good for. Well I know everyone is sitting there stunned that I actually have gotten this scientific today. LOL But, I just thought it was actually something that everyone might want to learn about, being we are here because of unhealthy evnironments. If I found it interesting thought someone here might. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 29, 2007 Report Share Posted January 29, 2007 , I commend you for doing the hard work of research rather than just taking someone's word for it, on ozone or anything else.This is exactly what each of us needs to do to take care of ourselves in the way we need (as we slowly discover what those specifics are). I happen to agree and benefit from moderate levels of negative ions and there are benefits from ozone if it isn't being breathed. But there are some traps to watch out for with both. A few of these traps, in simple terms, are: 1. Ions are any electrically/chemically charged " particle " or molecule and the charge can be either negative or positive. 2. Ozone is, technically, a negative ion. 3. The negative ions with the positive effect are NOT ozone. 4. Many devices that produce negative ions also produce ozone, but not at the high levels that ozone generators produce. 5. Ozone is used quite successfully in water disinfection, odor control and fire restoration. But NOT with people's lungs exposed to it. 6. The only Web sites promoting ozone in the presence of people - that I am aware of - are those owned or sponsored by manufacturers and/or sales people of ozone equipment. 7. Many of these sites present scientific papers and scientists advocating ozone. A. Most rely on uses of ozone out of the presence of people but don't mention this. B. Most rely on an authoritative technology that is well proven in areas other than exposure to people. C. Most rely on an authoritative technology that is well proven in the sophisticated or industrial equipment but not in consumer products that don't have all the processes, stages and levels. D. The scientific endorsement of ozone purifiers I've seen comes from those that have a financial interest in the company and are NOT independent. E. I have seen NO authoritative information from INDEPENDANT sources that advocate the use of ozone in the presence of people. Negative ions have much less research but the main arguments seem to be they can't be produced without also producing ozone (very little if any) and their charge can carry them more deeply into the lungs (never verifired). Too high a level can produce a jittery feeling or anxiety. How high is too high? It depends on the person. This is some of what I know about ozone and negative ions. Again, keep up the independent research. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > This has been a very debated subject here on the group. I am not starting this debate up again. Just wanted to mention I have NEVER had time to research it. So, about 2 weeks ago thought I'd do an indepth search and research, because a doctor told me that negative ion and the proper amount of ozone in your home is essential to good health and mood, and good air quality. Which surprised me he would even have a clue. Then I thought he was nutz because all I have heard is how bad ozone is for you. > > So I have been researching it and am amazed at the imformation and studies that are out there. It does seem that these are very essential to good health, mood and indoor air quality. Especially if your home is closed up or insulated well w/the heat or A/C running. > > From what I have been able to find negative ion is good and doesn't need to monitored, and should be present when running your A/C. Ozone of course as we all know can do damage to the lungs. But, it seems that it also benefits the lungs if in the proper amounts. > > As with anything we all have to do our own research and make our own decisions. I have just heard ozone talked about so much (all the negative) that I thought I'd investigate and learn myself. Still researching it but found it very interesting. > > The one thing I found to be very interesting was this. I have heard it mentioned here how we all feel better when by the water. Someone here was living in the mountains and said they felt awesome when there. It has to do w/the fact that there is so much more negative ion and ozone in those area's than say the city. The negative ion is a mood stimulant because it reduces the serotonin released into our bodies. Like sunlight reduces melatonin. If you deplete or don't have enough negative ion it increases the seratonin so that you enter a depression stage, fatigue, drowsiness, anxiety. Plus, there is a ton of other stuff they are good for. > > Well I know everyone is sitting there stunned that I actually have gotten this scientific today. LOL But, I just thought it was actually something that everyone might want to learn about, being we are here because of unhealthy evnironments. If I found it interesting thought someone here might. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 & Carl, thanks. Since there are many new members on the board I guess this needs to be discussed every now and then. The pros and cons of ozone and ionizers/negative ions. Hopefully I don't confuse anything here. For those that are not aware ozone should only be used in an unoccupied space. The salesmen of these products are very slick and promise you the world. The research the salesmen provides you doesn't really mean squat, especially if you are not informed who funded this research and without doing plenty of research on your own, which many of us have. I am not convienced that ozone has any benefits when it comes to inhalation and until then I wouldn't even consider it to be used in an occcupied space. There are too many articles/research stating it can cause permanent respitatory negative effects. Am I 100% convienced that ozone is more than capable of causing this damage, no. But I am not willing to take any chances with ozone until further research becomes available. My wife and too many others on this group already have been diagnosed with asthma, RADS, COPD, Interstitial Lung Disease, etc., why would you even be willing to take the slightest chance of causing further damage to your lungs by another inhalant or pollutant. Who is to say when the amount of ozone inhaled is too much? If it does cause damage, good luck proving it, especially with every thing else you have been exposed to. I have just received an email from a member that had experienced just this from ozone. " Hi KC, From what I can tell getting to see her once a week now, her cognitive function is back to where it was before the ozone fiasco. I was using an ozone machine in a basement room to detox paper towels etc. It was on low, but because we do not have a heat exchanger and have a tight house, the ozone built up and made us sick. It took some time to do this. " This says it all.... I will also post some responses from many professionals on their personal opinions and the dangers of ozone. , I know you were talking about ions, but I do believe this all goes hand and hand. So I don't want to really confuse the two. KC From: " Carl E. Grimes " <grimes@...> Date: Mon Oct 11, 2004 1:29 pm Subject: Re: []^ Ozone educational web sites This is my last comment on this ozone discussion: Ozone is not enriched oxygen. Ozone is a pollutant. The two have different properties. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------- From: " Jim H. White " <systemsa@...> Date: Sat Jun 25, 2005 1:20 pm Subject: Re: [iequality] IAQ in central ac systems systemsa@... iequality/message/3299 Ozone generators and/or ozone should never be used in occupied spaces as it does lung damage even at low concentrations. Any employee satisfaction can be due to damage smell sensors in the nasal passages, not in a real improvement. See Health Canada (http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/cps/publications/ozone.htm http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/hecs-sesc/cps/publications/ozone_qa.htm) and the US EPA (http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/ozonegen.html http://www.epa.gov/iaq/pubs/airclean.html) sites for reasons why you should not use ozone indoors. Jim H. White SSAL --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------- From: Jeff May <Jeff@...> Date: Thu Oct 7, 2004 10:31 pm Subject: Re: Ozone for killing mold 1. Common indoor molds (Penicillium, Aspergillus, Cladosporium, etc.) are NOT wood-destroying organisms (many cannot even digest cellulose), so they do not consume wood in our houses. Even Stachybotrys, which can be cellulolytic, does not destroy wood; these molds are called microfungi. Brown rots and white rots (mushroom-forming fungi or macrofungi) destroy wood, digesting either cellulose, lignin or both.. Though there are outdoor (and indoor) spores in the air, mold is not all around us and in every room (unless in a very problem environment). 4. As Jim Holland noted in a previous e-mail, FDA-approved ozone generators do NOT inhibit the growth of fungi or even kill spores. On the other hand, many ozone generators create concentrations of ozone above the FDA limit of .05 ppm. (Anyone with an ionizer or ozone generator concerned about ozone concentrations can purchase a two- test kit from IQAir for about $8.) 5. Filtration is the most effective means to remove aerosolized particulates. 6. Air purifiers may remove spores from the air, but they do NOT control mold. As you noted, the only way to control mold growth is to control relative humidity and water. It is foolish to spend money on any type of air purifier without eliminating the obvious sources of spores first. Jeff May Author, " The Mold Survival Guide " s Hopkins University Press >1. Our focus should first be protecting ourselves from the effects of mold spores... and secondly protecting out home from mold... We must remember that mold to grow must consume cellulose thus mold in a home is slowly consuming the wood from which the house was built.. Mold is all around us and in every room... What affects us is a high concentration of mold spores; at a certain level we become affected... Good ventilation and controlled humidity are important... A sealed building invites mold development. >4. Ozone generators can inhibit growth of fungi/mold.. The mustiness of a mildewed room can be controlled/eliminated by ozone generators.. >5. Ion generators electrify the air and make it difficult for mold spores to float thus making it somewhat difficult for the eyes and nose to be troubled by the " spore dust " .. >6. Some air purifiers work and work well at controlling mold but many do not.... I'd only buy one with a satisfaction guarantee where you get your money back within 20 days if it doesn't work to your satisfaction... --------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------- From: RLLIPSEY87@... Date: Wed May 28, 2003 8:53 am Subject: Re: [] Digest Number 1636 Ozone is a toxic chemical whether it is produced naturally in a thunderstorm or produced by ozonators or " air purifiers " (or sold by any other name) . Ozone is an OSHA regulated toxic chemical which is 500 times more toxic than carbon monoxide (CO) that kills hundreds of people each year. The federal air standard for ozone is only 0.1 ppm while it is 50 ppm for CO. Ozone attacks mucous membranes, ie the lungs, and causes chronic respiratory disease. NIOSH has published that ozone is not very effective in killing mold or bacteria. Ozone is not " controversial " . It is toxic and dangerous and not effective in controlling mold or bacteria and should never be used in a room with people present, even to remove odors ie smoke damage odors. Dr. L. Lipsey Professor and Toxicologist University of North Florida, ---OSHA HazMat Cert. U. of Florida Med. Ctr, Jax Poison Control Center Board CV--Toxicology And Environmental Health Assoc --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ From: RLLIPSEY87@... Date: Tue Sep 6, 2005 8:42 am Subject: Re: [] Digest Number 2563 RLLIPSEY87@... All the talk about Ozone machines on this site concern me. OZONE is relatively ineffective against mold but very effective against odors according to NIOSH, US Public Health Service. They may be called Ionizing machines or even air cleaners or 100 different names as dealers are trying to hide the fact that they are nothing by ozone generators. NEVER allow these machines to be used with people present in offices or homes. You never know just how much ozone they are actually emitting. I have served as an expert witness where these companies were sued. OZONE is also 500 times more toxic than carbon monoxide gas and 100 times more toxic than hydrogen cyanide gas used in Nazi concentration camps (NIOSH Pocket Guide to Chemical Hazards, 1997 comparing OSHA PEL's )..............so why use these machines in homes? Ultrasound bug killers are in the same class, or lack of class, in that mosquitos do NOT hear ultrasound, nor do cockroaches, so why should ultrasound machines drive them away. I put on a debate at the national meeting of the Entomological Society of America many years ago in Detroit with EPA officers present to hear first hand that those machines are absolutely useless...........and the EPA officers commented that they cannot protect the public from harmless and useless devices and " let the buyer beware " . Dr. L. Lipsey ( 904 ) 398-2168 Toxicologist and Instructor University of North Florida, HazMat/OSHA Univ. Fla. Medical Center Jax, Poison Control Board Fla. Comm. College Jax, Institute of Occ. Safety & Health www.richardlipsey.com --------------------------------------------------------------------- ---------------------- Professor Shaughnessy, University of Tulsa Docent Aino Nevalainen, KTL Ulla Haverinen-Shaughnessy, PhD -shaughnessy@... Shaughnessy is program manager for the Indoor Air Pollution Research Center at the University of Tulsa. He oversees IAQ training efforts for the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency and serves as a consultant to the Consumer Product Safety Commission on its review of ozone-generating air cleaners International Society of Indoor Air Quality and Climate (ISIAQ) Secretary, Shaughnessy J. Shaughnessy, Ph.D., received his Ph.D. in Chemical Engineering from the University of Tulsa. He has served as Program Director of IAQ Research at the University of Tulsa since 1987. He has taught and conducted research abroad in locations including Singapore, China, Australia, Philippines, and South Africa. He has published extensively on indoor air with respect to his research and studies. Dr. Shaughnessy has worked on U.S.EPA grant projects since 1990 encompassing issues such as training development, course delivery and outreach, schools investigations, and implementation of the Tools for Schools Program. His interests are primarily in particulate research, air cleaner evaluation, indoor chemistry, school studies, flooring studies, asthma/housing research, and studies related to resolution and remediation of bioaerosol-related problems. He served on the ACGIH Bioaerosols Committee from 1996 through December, 2003 and contributed to the writing of the 1999 ACGIH " Bioaerosols Assessment and Control " Document. He is the primary author of two chapters of the book pertaining to prevention and control, and remediation. He was a primary task force member and moderator for the recent 2003 ACGIH-sponsored Symposium on Mold Remediation. He assisted in the development of IICRC's S-520 document on mold remediation, serving on the Standards Committee and the S-520 Editing Committee. He was appointed in September, 2003 to the Oklahoma legislative task force on mold, and is currently developing recommendations to the legislature on mold-related legislation. He has recently been invited (December, 2003) by the American Society of Microbiology (Washington, DC) to participate, with a select group of 6 coauthors, in developing an informational brochure on addressing mold in the indoor environment, for the purpose of formulating reasonable legislation in the U.S. Congress. He has recently been appointed (Jan, 2004) by AIHA to the Management/Editorial Committee overseeing the development of extensive new guidance related to best practices in addressing the evaluation, assessment and remediation of mold in the indoor environment. He is also assisting the NYC DOH on new guidance that is being promulgated (January, 2004) related to worker protection in mold remediation situations. He has recently been appointed (December, 2003) for a three year term to the Board of Directors for the International Society on Indoor Air Quality (ISIAQ). --------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------- Subject: Aerotech Laboratories, IAQ Tech Tip #62: Ozone Generators and IAQ Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 13:47:29 -0700 Ozone Generators and IAQ With the considerable recent media attention focused on the issues of indoor air quality, microbial contaminants in particular, ozone is once again being touted as a remedy for all manner of indoor air quality concerns. Marketing literature from distributors of ozone generators boast claims of eliminating microbial contaminants through the use of ozone. One website claims " Ozone helps kill mold and mold odors with large ozone dose shock treatments " and " Ozone may be the only way to save your home from deadly mold " . The propaganda goes as far as claiming that ozone destroys mold leaving only oxygen, hydrogen and carbon dioxide. These are the kind of unsubstantiated claims that led to a $1.49 million civil penalty against Alpine Industries in April of 2001 and a Court Order to cease making health claims for its ozone generators. A recent study has demonstrated that gas phase ozone is ineffective in reducing the viability of Penicillium spores on building materials at levels as high as 9 parts per million (ppm), levels that are much higher than those attainable under field conditions (Appl.Occup.Environ.Hyg. 12 (8), August 1997). Recent studies have also implicated a synergistic effect between fungal spores and ozone and increased symptoms of asthma in asthma patients using an inhaler on an as-needed basis (Am.J.Respir.Crit.Care.Med. 154(3 Pt 1):633-41, Sept. 1996). The U.S. Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) limits ozone exposure in industrial settings to 0.1 ppm over an eight hour day, six days per week. The Food and Drug Administration has set a limit of 0.05 ppm for the ozone generated from electronic air cleaners used as medical devices. The Environmental Protection Agency has stated: Available evidence shows that, at concentrations that do not exceed public health standards, ozone is generally ineffective in controlling indoor air pollution. The concentration of ozone would have to greatly exceed health standards to be effective in removing most indoor air contaminants To read the entire EPA article please visit " Ozone Generators that are Sold as Air Cleaners " --------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------------- [iequality] Ionizing air cleaners Does anyone know of research into effects of ion generating air cleaning devices on respiratory health / asthma? ------------------------------------------------------------------- " Jim H. White " <systemsa@...> fourbrownpaws Re: [iequality] Ionizing air cleaners Smogwatcher Almost all of these are just ozone machines renamed. ozone kills lung tissue and makes asthma worse. Why are you considering one of these nefarious machine? See the California publications on ozone machines in occupied dwellings. In Canada, Health Canada also strongly recommends against them. The US EPA is against them, but not quite as vehemently. Jim H. White System Science Consulting ================================================ > > > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted January 30, 2007 Report Share Posted January 30, 2007 Thanx Carl for the info, That is some of the stuff I have been learning about. I didn't even know about negative ion. I thought it was ozone. Guess a couple others did too. I am printing your e-mail so I can keep as notes while searching more. Thanx for the suggestions. I'm willing to take some steps to utilize the benefits too. Especially, since the doctor said he thought my daughter could benefit from it. I'll be very careful though. Well you probably already know that. hehehe Re: [] Negative ion vs ozone , I commend you for doing the hard work of research rather than just taking someone's word for it, on ozone or anything else.This is exactly what each of us needs to do to take care of ourselves in the way we need (as we slowly discover what those specifics are). I happen to agree and benefit from moderate levels of negative ions and there are benefits from ozone if it isn't being breathed. But there are some traps to watch out for with both. A few of these traps, in simple terms, are: 1. Ions are any electrically/chemically charged " particle " or molecule and the charge can be either negative or positive. 2. Ozone is, technically, a negative ion. 3. The negative ions with the positive effect are NOT ozone. 4. Many devices that produce negative ions also produce ozone, but not at the high levels that ozone generators produce. 5. Ozone is used quite successfully in water disinfection, odor control and fire restoration. But NOT with people's lungs exposed to it. 6. The only Web sites promoting ozone in the presence of people - that I am aware of - are those owned or sponsored by manufacturers and/or sales people of ozone equipment. 7. Many of these sites present scientific papers and scientists advocating ozone. A. Most rely on uses of ozone out of the presence of people but don't mention this. B. Most rely on an authoritative technology that is well proven in areas other than exposure to people. C. Most rely on an authoritative technology that is well proven in the sophisticated or industrial equipment but not in consumer products that don't have all the processes, stages and levels. D. The scientific endorsement of ozone purifiers I've seen comes from those that have a financial interest in the company and are NOT independent. E. I have seen NO authoritative information from INDEPENDANT sources that advocate the use of ozone in the presence of people. Negative ions have much less research but the main arguments seem to be they can't be produced without also producing ozone (very little if any) and their charge can carry them more deeply into the lungs (never verifired). Too high a level can produce a jittery feeling or anxiety. How high is too high? It depends on the person. This is some of what I know about ozone and negative ions. Again, keep up the independent research. Carl Grimes Healthy Habitats LLC ----- > This has been a very debated subject here on the group. I am not starting this debate up again. Just wanted to mention I have NEVER had time to research it. So, about 2 weeks ago thought I'd do an indepth search and research, because a doctor told me that negative ion and the proper amount of ozone in your home is essential to good health and mood, and good air quality. Which surprised me he would even have a clue. Then I thought he was nutz because all I have heard is how bad ozone is for you. > > So I have been researching it and am amazed at the imformation and studies that are out there. It does seem that these are very essential to good health, mood and indoor air quality. Especially if your home is closed up or insulated well w/the heat or A/C running. > > From what I have been able to find negative ion is good and doesn't need to monitored, and should be present when running your A/C. Ozone of course as we all know can do damage to the lungs. But, it seems that it also benefits the lungs if in the proper amounts. > > As with anything we all have to do our own research and make our own decisions. I have just heard ozone talked about so much (all the negative) that I thought I'd investigate and learn myself. Still researching it but found it very interesting. > > The one thing I found to be very interesting was this. I have heard it mentioned here how we all feel better when by the water. Someone here was living in the mountains and said they felt awesome when there. It has to do w/the fact that there is so much more negative ion and ozone in those area's than say the city. The negative ion is a mood stimulant because it reduces the serotonin released into our bodies. Like sunlight reduces melatonin. If you deplete or don't have enough negative ion it increases the seratonin so that you enter a depression stage, fatigue, drowsiness, anxiety. Plus, there is a ton of other stuff they are good for. > > Well I know everyone is sitting there stunned that I actually have gotten this scientific today. LOL But, I just thought it was actually something that everyone might want to learn about, being we are here because of unhealthy evnironments. If I found it interesting thought someone here might. > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You are posting as a guest. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.