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I would make sure about the insurence thing by getting it in

writting. Also will the hospital cover the opperating costs of your

car. Also if (God forbid) in get into a car wreck who covers the cars

damage you if so there goes your insurence . just a few questions far

thought

Lawrence Verrett EMT-P

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[bigrod] What happens if you go on a call to a questionable part of town and

have to leave your car? Are you willing to do this?

-Rodney Fuller EMT-P

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While I think this would be a good idea for the community I'd HAVE to see more

support from the Hsp. like a SUV type vech. for emergency reponse like alot of

northern areas, equipment like monitors and stuff like Gene suggested before

I'd go for it......

Goodman EMT-P

Nursing type student...

>===== Original Message From " E. Gandy " =====

>Some questions: (1) Will the hospital's liability policy cover you under

>these circumstances? The carrier must be notified or it might deny coverage

>if there's a claim. Seek an opinion in writing from the insurance carrier.

>(2) Will you be responding with red lights/siren? If so, will your auto

>insurance policy cover you for the same premium? Will they deny coverage if

>you have an accident and they didn't know you were operating an emergency

>vehicle? Would you be covered by the hospital's blanket motor vehicle

>policy? Get a written opinion from your agent. (3) If you're on the

>payroll of the hospital and on the clock, will the volunteer EMS's comp

>policy cover you? Seek a written opinion from the comp carrier. (4) Will

>you be using hospital equipment? Are they going to give you a monitor/defib

>to keep in your car? If not, what are you going to use? Will they supply

>you with IV stuff, airway stuff, medications and a bag to put it in? (5)

>Whose medical license will you be working under? You'll have to have a

>medical director. Are there existing MICU protocols? Is the volunteer

>service licensed as an ALS or MICU provider by TDH? Is the hospital? Whose

>provider license will you be working under? Will this be a first responder

>arrangement? (6) Is the hospital requiring you to do this as a part of your

>job? Can you refuse? If this is a job requirement, you're definitely under

>their comp policy and they're liable for anything you do, I'll bet.. (7)

>Who will pay for the wear and tear on your auto? If you're required to have

>emergency signal equipment, will they pay for it? (8) Will you have radio

>communications with EMS and the hospital? Who will furnish you with that?

>(9) What kind of uniform will you wear? What do you wear at work? Will you

>be identified as an EMS volunteer or a hospital employee? (10) If you make

>a call at the end of your shift will you be paid overtime?

>

>There are probably more questions that could be asked, but these may be a

>start.

>

>Gene Gandy

> E. Gandy, JD, EMT-P

>EMS Professions Program Director

>Tyler Junior College

>Tyler, TX

>ggan@...

>

>Check out our website at: http://www.tyler.cc.tx.us/emmt/

>

>

>Victor GA Szebehely wrote:

>

>> The hospital where I work has decided to have the hospital's paramedics

>> respond to calls in the city This would make the EMS an ALS service-a

>> definite plus for the community.

>> The EMS service is presently staffed by volunteer ECAs and EMTs who have

>> resisted system upgrades by saying that they are too close to a hospital

>> for ALS to be worthwhile.

>> Hospital administration advises us that he EMT-P is to travel to the

>> scene in the paramedic's personal vehicle. The EMT-P will not clock out

>> from the hospital. They say that when the EMT-P leaves on the call, he is

>> covered under the workman's comp insurance for the city's volunteer EMS.

>> Opinions, please?

>> Please feel free to mail me directly or post to the list.

>> Thank you.

>>

>> J.

>> wildheart3@...

>>

>> ___________________________________________________________________

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  • 2 months later...

Unless she/he is also a paramedic, with at least a year's street experience, I

would be unhappy too. The vast majority of nurses here in the Houston area

have no clue when it comes to paramedicine.

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I have to make a comment on the question about the DON of a hospital running

or being over the EMS. The hospital that is being talked about is Eastland

Memorial Hospital in Eastland, Tx.

It was my understanding that this service has a EMS Supervisor that is a

Paramedic? Has this changed?

When Eastland Hospital took over the EMS back in 1989, the service was placed

under the DON at that time. She knew nothing about EMS and was not even a ECA

let alone a EMT. The EMS crews did not like it then either.

My guess again is that the new DON now knows nothing about EMS either. Now,

if the DON was a EMT or medic with street experience that would be different,

but none of the DONs at Eastland Hospital have never had ANY EMS experience.

Plus, they treat the medic and other EMS personnel like they are nurses aides.

They have not idea what medic can DO!!. They think that all we do is bring

them into the hospital. Nursing and EMS are TWO different things.

If any of you on here work for Eastland Hospital EMS, you know where I'm

coming from. Been there, done that, and have the T-Shirt to prove it.

Why is the hospital putting the service back under the DON?

Thanks,

Wayne

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My first question would be - Does the DON have any EMS experience?

If she/he does, then I see no problem. The person should be familiar with

the operational aspect of an ambulance unit.

If she/he does not, then the person should have an assistant who is

(Paramedic Supervisor?) that can fill the gap to build the DON 's knowledge

base.

My $.02 worth

Mike Stockton, FF/EMT-I

C-5 Red Lick - Leary Volunteer Fire Department

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I have to agree, as I have also worked for Eastland Ems, but there was an Ems

Director at the time and it surprises me that, that has changed. I also

worked for County Ems, another hospital based service, which makes

Eastland look real good in terms of the nurses thinking medics are nurses

aides. I was asked to do everything from, give bed bathes and hand out ice

after being called back in after being up and on the truck for 40 + hours.

Was on an accident scene when a nurse called on the radio and wanted to know

how long we would be, as she wouldn't have to administer the afternoon

breathing treatments or do vitals. When the nurses didn't have time then the

medics had better make time or be wrote up. Eastland was great compared to

.

Nurses without medic experience have no business trying to run a service or

direct Ems personal on how to do to there job.

M

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Who is this? Mike?????

>From -return-1886-tjohnson26=hotmail.comreturns (DOT)

Sat Jan 9 08:29:26 1999

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>

>I have to agree, as I have also worked for Eastland Ems, but there was

an Ems

>Director at the time and it surprises me that, that has changed. I

also

>worked for County Ems, another hospital based service, which

makes

>Eastland look real good in terms of the nurses thinking medics are

nurses

>aides. I was asked to do everything from, give bed bathes and hand out

ice

>after being called back in after being up and on the truck for 40 +

hours.

>Was on an accident scene when a nurse called on the radio and wanted to

know

>how long we would be, as she wouldn't have to administer the afternoon

>breathing treatments or do vitals. When the nurses didn't have time

then the

>medics had better make time or be wrote up. Eastland was great

compared to

>.

>

>Nurses without medic experience have no business trying to run a

service or

>direct Ems personal on how to do to there job.

>

>M

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>HarmonyHouse.com gives you 20% off all CDs all the time!

>HarmonyHouse.com has over 150,000 titles available right now!

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>

>

>

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Is the Director of Nurses also a Paramedic?

Kenny Rawls

www.emcert.com

[] Question

>What does everybody think of the idea of having a DON (Director of

>Nurses) running the ambulance? The EMS is hospital based and the guys

>that work there are mad! Just wandering what everybody thinks.

>

>Thanks

>Tommy

>

>______________________________________________________

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

>

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Tommy I have been there done that and think I might still have the

uniform to prove it. But we hired a paramedic as our director 2 1/2

years ago and we have made alot of progress since then.

Stuart

______________________________________________________

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I agree with your comments 100%. And please dont get me wrong...... I

am not saying that hospital based EMS services are bad, but this one is

taking the medics for granite, and using them as nurses aids. That is

degrading the medics and making the morale around the place terrible!

Tommy

>From -return-1901-tjohnson26 Sat Jan 09 15:05:39 1999

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>

>In a message dated 99-01-09 09:04:52 EST, you write:

>

><< What does everybody think of the idea of having a DON (Director of

> Nurses) running the ambulance? The EMS is hospital based and the guys

> that work there are mad! Just wandering what everybody thinks.

> >>

>

>

>I have read several replies to the initial question of whether or not a

DON or

>RN should be in charge of an EMS service. It seems much more

appropriate

>for US as a GROUP to encourage TDH to develop some regulations

>concerning EMS Administrators. As of now, there are now requirements

>whatsoever to be an EMS Administrator. Even folks with no medical or

>management experience can assume this position.

>

>After being a subscriber for over a year, it seems like there are a lot

of

>good

>ideas and opinions from other EMS people on the list. However, we

never

>seem to take action and focus our thoughts and concepts in the right

>direction.

>We are pretty content to voice them to each other and say, " well, that

is the

>way it should be " .

>

>What do you think? Should this discussion and the comments be confined

to

>the listserver, or should we voice them to a higher level in Austin?

>Remember, rules are being re-written and added currently. Now would

be a

>good time to try and accomplish something if it is the wishes of the

EMS

>Community.

>

>Just my humble thoughts

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>

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It is obvious by the posting that this is a done deal regardless of

how the medics feel about it. Knowing that, the best approach would

be to educate the DON in EMS. Be polite, be tactful, and be

diplomatic. Invite him/her for a couple of ride outs. Let the DON

see first hand exactly what we do and what we are capable of! From

there, perhaps a mandatory rotation of, say, 24hrs a month for all ER

nurses could enhance your relationship. A rotation through the ER for

all the medics would be useful as well. I know that I could stand to

learn a thing or two in the ER.

If all of this has been tried to no avail, or the DON is not open to

suggestions, first I would question his/her supervisory capabilities,

second I would say that you've got your hands full. Remember the best

approach to ant potential problem is always positive AND proactive.

my $.02 worth

Mike Holmes EMT-P

______________________________ Reply Separator

_________________________________

Subject: [] Question

Author: " Tommy " [sMTP:tjohnson26@...] at Headquarters

Date: 1/9/99 8:04 AM

What does everybody think of the idea of having a DON (Director of

Nurses) running the ambulance? The EMS is hospital based and the guys

that work there are mad! Just wandering what everybody thinks.

Thanks

Tommy

______________________________________________________

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In a message dated 99-01-09 09:04:52 EST, you write:

<< What does everybody think of the idea of having a DON (Director of

Nurses) running the ambulance? The EMS is hospital based and the guys

that work there are mad! Just wandering what everybody thinks.

>>

I have read several replies to the initial question of whether or not a DON or

RN should be in charge of an EMS service. It seems much more appropriate

for US as a GROUP to encourage TDH to develop some regulations

concerning EMS Administrators. As of now, there are now requirements

whatsoever to be an EMS Administrator. Even folks with no medical or

management experience can assume this position.

After being a subscriber for over a year, it seems like there are a lot of

good

ideas and opinions from other EMS people on the list. However, we never

seem to take action and focus our thoughts and concepts in the right

direction.

We are pretty content to voice them to each other and say, " well, that is the

way it should be " .

What do you think? Should this discussion and the comments be confined to

the listserver, or should we voice them to a higher level in Austin?

Remember, rules are being re-written and added currently. Now would be a

good time to try and accomplish something if it is the wishes of the EMS

Community.

Just my humble thoughts

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As i stated before, the DON has NO EMS experience. They medics are

unhappy because they are doing the job of a nurses aid. We would work

in the ER as you stated, and we too enjoyed it and I personally learned

a tremendous amoumt about the medical field. As for her duties i am not

completely sure what they are because this is a new idea in the

hospital. But if the guys are doing the work of a nurses aid, I dont

believe that she has EMS in mind.

Thanks for the reply

Tommy

>From -return-1907-tjohnson26 Sat Jan 09 17:11:57 1999

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>

>After reading the responses so far, it is clear that a lot more

information is

>needed before answering your question. Does the DON have EMS

experience? What

>are her duties? Do her duties require her to have EMS experience? Are

the

>medics unhappy because of the new management, or are they unhappy about

doing

>jobs they think are beneath them? EXACTLY what are they unhappy about?

>

>I worked for a hospital-based ambulance service in Slidell La. and it

was

>wonderful. Our director was Dawn Orgeron, a nurse and a paramedic (she

was Dr.

>McSwain's nurse before she came to SMH). We were a really busy service,

but we

>still helped a lot in the ER. For myself, I took it as a compliment; I

felt

>the doctors and nurses had confidence in our abilities and trusted us.

Later,

>we had a director who was not a nurse, but had many years of EMS

experience.

>It didn't make him a good director.

>

>Answer the questions above, then you might get some helpful answers.

>

>Cheryl K. Bakhtiari

>Sugar Land

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>For the absolute lowest price on Computer Hardware visit:

>http://ads./click/56/0/bottomdollar

>

>

>

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In a message dated 1/9/99 8:04:55 AM Central Standard Time,

tjohnson26@... writes:

>

> What does everybody think of the idea of having a DON (Director of

> Nurses) running the ambulance? The EMS is hospital based and the guys

> that work there are mad! Just wandering what everybody thinks.

>

> Thanks

> Tommy

>

> _

Having nurses run the EMS service, aka Director of Nurses, makes about as much

sense as me running the Texas Utilities company because I use electricity.

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After reading the responses so far, it is clear that a lot more information is

needed before answering your question. Does the DON have EMS experience? What

are her duties? Do her duties require her to have EMS experience? Are the

medics unhappy because of the new management, or are they unhappy about doing

jobs they think are beneath them? EXACTLY what are they unhappy about?

I worked for a hospital-based ambulance service in Slidell La. and it was

wonderful. Our director was Dawn Orgeron, a nurse and a paramedic (she was Dr.

McSwain's nurse before she came to SMH). We were a really busy service, but we

still helped a lot in the ER. For myself, I took it as a compliment; I felt

the doctors and nurses had confidence in our abilities and trusted us. Later,

we had a director who was not a nurse, but had many years of EMS experience.

It didn't make him a good director.

Answer the questions above, then you might get some helpful answers.

Cheryl K. Bakhtiari

Sugar Land

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I think it sucks. A nurse is not a paramedic or an EMT. We should have

a DOP. (Director Of Paramedics). If the DON wanted to run an ambulance,

they should have studied to be an EMT or a Paramedics. Why should

'they' get the honor of doing OUR job?

Always,

SweetRajah@...

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Good Point, .

Who lets EMS personnel be over places in the hospital, such as surgery,

physc., etc. That is the same as a DON being over EMS. Do we run an

OR or a Physc unit? No. Why should they run EMS, especially with no EMS

experience.

Jay

[] Re: Question

>Having nurses run the EMS service, aka Director of Nurses, makes about as

much

>sense as me running the Texas Utilities company because I use electricity.

>

>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

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>http://ads./click/56/0/bottomdollar

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>

>

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Cheryl,

In responce to your questions, the DON at Eastland Hospital has NO

experience in EMS what so ever, nor are they certified nor are they

required. Now, if they did have past street experience as an EMT or

Paramedic what would be different, but none of them do. At one time the

supervisor was an R.T., because they did not have a DON. At least the RT

had been certified as an EMT at one time, but let it expire.

The nurse at this hospital treat the EMS as if they are nurses aides and not

EMS professionals. Eastland Hospital EMS has a high turn over rate, because

of the way that they are treated. If you notice they have an ad in the

Texas EMS Magazine everytime that it comes out, because of the high turn

over rate.

I'm sorry but, I don't think that EMS should have to be nurses aides. The

hospital has aides, but why use them, when they can get EMS up during the

night and have them do it for them.

I have worked for one other hospital based service. The director there was

an EMT-I and had many years of experience. They now have a EMT-P over the

service. We as EMS did help out in the ER where we were comfortable and no

one minded that. We might help turn a pt on the floor, but that was about

it, because the CNAs done the rest. We also acted as phlebotomist for the

lab and did lab draws. None of us had a problem with that.

Most of the DONs that Eastland has had have been in nursing since nursing

started and think that we as EMS professionals don't know how to do

anything. All that we are capable of doing is bringing the pts to the

hospital and that's it.

If it seems that I am raging nurses, maybe I am. I was married to a

paramedic/RN. She was a medic before she was an RN. I can say that she

felt the same way. That is why she is a trauma nurse and not floor nurse.

Most nurses are I'm sorry to say are " stupid " when it comes to EMS and what

we can do. I'll probably get some hate mail for saying that, but if you

turn the tables, EMS is " stupid " when it comes to nursing care.

This is just my $0.02 an more

Wayne----EMT-P

[] Re: Question

>After reading the responses so far, it is clear that a lot more information

is

>needed before answering your question. Does the DON have EMS experience?

What

>are her duties? Do her duties require her to have EMS experience? Are the

>medics unhappy because of the new management, or are they unhappy about

doing

>jobs they think are beneath them? EXACTLY what are they unhappy about?

>

>I worked for a hospital-based ambulance service in Slidell La. and it was

>wonderful. Our director was Dawn Orgeron, a nurse and a paramedic (she was

Dr.

>McSwain's nurse before she came to SMH). We were a really busy service, but

we

>still helped a lot in the ER. For myself, I took it as a compliment; I felt

>the doctors and nurses had confidence in our abilities and trusted us.

Later,

>we had a director who was not a nurse, but had many years of EMS

experience.

>It didn't make him a good director.

>

>Answer the questions above, then you might get some helpful answers.

>

>Cheryl K. Bakhtiari

>Sugar Land

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>For the absolute lowest price on Computer Hardware visit:

>http://ads./click/56/0/bottomdollar

>

>

>

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Worked for when it was Med-Life and was one of the medics that changed

over when it became a hospital based service back in 96-97.

Melody Roman-Graham EMT-P

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I'm surprised a nurse would want the job, after all, it would mean more work for them and we all know how pissed off they get when you bring them a patient. It would take away from their gossiping and husband/boyfriend bashing. That's my 20 bucks worth.

Ken

[] Re: Question

In a message dated 1/9/99 8:04:55 AM Central Standard Time,

tjohnson26@... writes:

> > What does everybody think of the idea of having a DON (Director of > Nurses) running the ambulance? The EMS is hospital based and the guys > that work there are mad! Just wandering what everybody thinks.

> > Thanks > Tommy

> > _

Having nurses run the EMS service, aka Director of Nurses, makes about as much

sense as me running the Texas Utilities company because I use electricity.

For the absolute lowest price on Computer Hardware:CLICK HERE!

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How TRUE you are

[] Re: Question

In a message dated 1/9/99 8:04:55 AM Central Standard Time,

tjohnson26@... writes:

> > What does everybody think of the idea of having a DON (Director of > Nurses) running the ambulance? The EMS is hospital based and the guys > that work there are mad! Just wandering what everybody thinks.

> > Thanks > Tommy

> > _

Having nurses run the EMS service, aka Director of Nurses, makes about as much

sense as me running the Texas Utilities company because I use electricity.

For the absolute lowest price on Computer Hardware:CLICK HERE!

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