Re: satisfying relationship

[Guest guest]

Dear Brigitte,

in addition to what Tami said:

" It doesn't take two to live in a satisfying relationship. "

THEREFORE, the question becomes:

how would you be satisfied? If you were God, what had to change, so

that Brigitte was satisfied?

Love,

Am 03.03.2006 um 21:54 schrieb elialeros:

> Sure (thanks for asking)

>

> I live with a man.

> He tells me he is happy.

> I want a different life sometimes

> He does not

> I tell him I might leave

> He asks why

> I say I am not satisfied

>

> the question becomes:L what is a satisfying relationship "

___________________________________________________________

Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

[Guest guest]

Dear Brigitte,

Am 05.03.2006 um 22:32 schrieb elialeros:

>> THEREFORE, the question becomes:

>> how would you be satisfied? If you were God, what had to change,

>> so that Brigitte was satisfied?

> Whan I answer that,

Well, do so: ANSWER it.

> I immediately go to the turnarounds and see what

> i already know ie I should be supportive to myself, I should listen

> myself, I should have fun being with myself, etc...

>

> But I am still very sad...

> I still feel unsatisfied

Well, that's only SOME of the turnarounds.

Answer the question. Then we'll take a look at them.

We may find something.

If you are unhappy, it's ALWAYS because you know how it would be better.

> can we be happy with anybody?

No.

We can ONLY be happy with ourselves.

> is my thinking of leaving him plain selfissness?

> when we say " i love you with all my heart and I am leaving " what is

> making us leave?

When you wake up in the morning, what made you wake up?

When you drink a glass of water, what makes you swallow?

What makes the wind blow?

What makes the sun shine?

Did you leave him, yet?

What is making you stay?

> I feel guilt at the thought of leaving him

> I feel immature

> I feel selfish

> I feel terrible guilt for my children

> I feel I am abandonning them (did the Work on this one, know that it

> could be better also but still feel I am robbing them of a nuclear

> family)

Sure, because how could they have a life for themselves?

How could they not need you?

What does it say about them, if they need you?

> When should we compromise?

> What is a compromise and what is ignoring self?

How do you leave someone?

What is your thought that makes you sad, when you think of leaving him?

Ignoring self is saying " yes " when you get an inner " no " .

And what is a compromise? Good question. Can you find an answer?

And WHAT is selfishness?

Love,

[Guest guest]

Didn't understant the question

Can you explain it to me?

T

> what is a satisfying relationship in a couple?

>

[Guest guest]

Sure (thanks for asking)

I live with a man.

He tells me he is happy.

I want a different life sometimes

He does not

I tell him I might leave

He asks why

I say I am not satisfied

the question becomes:L what is a satisfying relationship "

[Guest guest]

When the reality of the relationship matches your stories

T

-- Re: satisfying relationship

Sure (thanks for asking)

I live with a man.

He tells me he is happy.

I want a different life sometimes

He does not

I tell him I might leave

He asks why

I say I am not satisfied

the question becomes:L what is a satisfying relationship "

[Guest guest]

The first thought that came to my mind was: the relationship me and

Hans have! And it´s hard to describe what it really is that is so

satisfying. I guess we both share the same beautiful stories about

eachother. With Hans it was easy, wonderful, uncomplicated, warm,

loving, soft and just right from day one. And I didn´t need to do

the Work to see it that way. And now 2½ years later, I feel the same

way. I feel totally satisfied with Hans, in every way, every day.

What´s your story Birgitte? (I´m not sure but as I recall that is

your name?)

Love,

>

> what is a satisfying relationship in a couple?

>

[Guest guest]

Good answer T! Fuzzy says hi, by the way. He misses you!

Love,

>

> When the reality of the relationship matches your stories

>

> T

>

> -- Re: satisfying relationship

>

> Sure (thanks for asking)

>

> I live with a man.

> He tells me he is happy.

> I want a different life sometimes

> He does not

> I tell him I might leave

> He asks why

> I say I am not satisfied

>

> the question becomes:L what is a satisfying relationship "

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

M

I bought him back 2 days ago

he is living in my panties now, the best place on earth

And...

He says hi, he misses you !

Love, T

-- Re: satisfying relationship

>

> Sure (thanks for asking)

>

> I live with a man.

> He tells me he is happy.

> I want a different life sometimes

> He does not

> I tell him I might leave

> He asks why

> I say I am not satisfied

>

> the question becomes:L what is a satisfying relationship "

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

>

> Good answer T! Fuzzy says hi, by the way. He misses you!

>

> Love,

>

> >

> > When the reality of the relationship matches your stories

> >

> > T

> >

> > -- Re: satisfying relationship

> >

> > Sure (thanks for asking)

> >

> > I live with a man.

> > He tells me he is happy.

> > I want a different life sometimes

> > He does not

> > I tell him I might leave

> > He asks why

> > I say I am not satisfied

> >

> > the question becomes:L what is a satisfying relationship "

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> Haha, I wondered why he was so quiet!

In my panties he has every thing he needs !

> He misses me, so sweet...That´s our Fuzzy!

He is the only person on this earth (except for my niece)

that is sweeter than me.

And trust me, it is hard.

He is so lovable !

Wuzzy, T

>

> >

> > M

> >

> > I bought him back 2 days ago

> > he is living in my panties now, the best place on earth

> >

> > And...

> > He says hi, he misses you !

> >

> > Love, T

> >

> > -- Re: satisfying relationship

> > >

> > > Sure (thanks for asking)

> > >

> > > I live with a man.

> > > He tells me he is happy.

> > > I want a different life sometimes

> > > He does not

> > > I tell him I might leave

> > > He asks why

> > > I say I am not satisfied

> > >

> > > the question becomes:L what is a satisfying relationship "

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

...

" in addition to what Tami said " ...

I love the sound of it,

say more

T

-- Re: Re: satisfying relationship

Dear Brigitte,

in addition to what Tami said:

" It doesn't take two to live in a satisfying relationship. "

THEREFORE, the question becomes:

how would you be satisfied? If you were God, what had to change, so

that Brigitte was satisfied?

Love,

Am 03.03.2006 um 21:54 schrieb elialeros:

> Sure (thanks for asking)

>

> I live with a man.

> He tells me he is happy.

> I want a different life sometimes

> He does not

> I tell him I might leave

> He asks why

> I say I am not satisfied

>

> the question becomes:L what is a satisfying relationship "

___________________________________________________________

Telefonate ohne weitere Kosten vom PC zum PC: http://messenger.yahoo.de

[Guest guest]

> THEREFORE, the question becomes:

> how would you be satisfied? If you were God, what had to change,

so

> that Brigitte was satisfied?

>

Whan I answer that, I immediately go to the turnarounds and see what

i already know ie I should be supportive to myself, I should listen

myself, I should have fun being with myself, etc...

But I am still very sad...

I still feel unsatisfied

can we be happy with anybody?

is my thinking of leaving him plain selfissness?

when we say " i love you with all my heart and I am leaving " what is

making us leave?

I feel guilt at the thought of leaving him

I feel immature

I feel selfish

I feel terrible guilt for my children

I feel I am abandonning them (did the Work on this one, know that it

could be better also but still feel I am robbing them of a nuclear

family)

When should we compromise?

What is a compromise and what is ignoring self?

[Guest guest]

> >> how would you be satisfied? If you were God, what had to change,

> >> so that Brigitte was satisfied?

we would spend more time doing family activities outside. He could so some

activities out

of the home with the kids. We d go on vacation as a family. We d rent cottags

for the

summer. I would not almost always be alone with the kids for outside of the

home

activities.

> Answer the question. Then we'll take a look at them.

thanks!

> If you are unhappy, it's ALWAYS because you know how it would be better.

if i " know how it could be bettter " than i guess I am not " loving what is " ...?

am I?

> > can we be happy with anybody?

> No.

>

> We can ONLY be happy with ourselves.

of course but being happy with ourselves can we live with anybody and keep this

peace?

> > is my thinking of leaving him plain selfissness?

> > when we say " i love you with all my heart and I am leaving " what is

> > making us leave?

> When you wake up in the morning, what made you wake up?

>

> When you drink a glass of water, what makes you swallow?

>

> What makes the wind blow?

>

> What makes the sun shine?

>

> Did you leave him, yet?

>

> What is making you stay?

I have a lot of trouble figuring that I don't decide any of this. No free will?

Just a story?

> Sure, because how could they have a life for themselves?

>

> How could they not need you?

>

mmm excellent point!

> What does it say about them, if they need you?

For one, I think he needs me to learn how to be a better parent just as I need

him for the

same. For exemple, he gives them whatever they want to eat rather than teaching

them

healty food habits. or he gives medication to a 4 yo because he asks for it

even if he is

not sick... They are children: they need their mother, don't they? And we are

great

parents together.

> What is your thought that makes you sad, when you think of leaving him?

I might regret leaving.

He is a good man.

He really loves his kids and that should me enough for me.

He love his boy more than he s daughter and that wight show up if I'm not

around.

I am being self centered.

I am acting as a spoled brat. (big one)

the nuclear family I want I won't have the opportunuity to offer them.

I might not find someone to live my nuclear family dream with (... so i might as

well stay)

I might become sick and have noone to take care of me.

Seperating is too in. I don t do those " in " things (cute one ins't it)

I love sleeping next to him

If I leave they will be no coming back

He might choose a new girlfriend that is not " good " for my children

He likes our lifestyle.

I will be poorer: no more Schools for the work for some time

I will miss my children when they are with him

Moving out might costs me so much

Moving out means i can't compromise on simple things (spolid brat again)

The things I want of feel i don't have are petty

maybe we can t have it all???

.....quite a list!

and their is also the good list - list of what great things might happen if i do

leave.

> And what is a compromise? Good question. Can you find an answer?

[Guest guest]

For me this is just another proof that it is when we have a story

and believe in it, that we suffer. Why is my relationship whit Hans

so peaceful? I would say that it´s because of the lack of stressful

stories in me. I COULD have had stories that would have made me

suffer too, stories like:

We should have sex more often.

Hans shouldn´t be so cranky in the mornings.

Hans should let the dogs out more often.

Hans should be able to make a decision as fast as me.

Hans shouldn´t have a library with hundreds of porno pictures of

gorgeous women on the computer.

We should take more walks together.

All of this is thoughts I have had but they never became stories.

The thoughts just appeared, and went away before they were able to

attach. I don´t believe any of it. So all I can see is that we have

the perfect relationship. Hans is just the perfect man for me. And

that doesn´t mean I don´t ask him to let the dogs out or go for a

walk with me for instance. And he might say no 20 times, and then he

suddenly says yes. The times he says no, oh I love him for them just

as much as I love him for everything else. I truly love WHAT IS with

Hans:)!

, so in love

>

> > >> how would you be satisfied? If you were God, what had to

change,

> > >> so that Brigitte was satisfied?

>

> we would spend more time doing family activities outside. He

could so some activities out

> of the home with the kids. We d go on vacation as a family. We

d rent cottags for the

> summer. I would not almost always be alone with the kids for

outside of the home

> activities.

>

>

> > Answer the question. Then we'll take a look at them.

> thanks!

>

> > If you are unhappy, it's ALWAYS because you know how it would be

better.

> if i " know how it could be bettter " than i guess I am not " loving

what is " ...? am I?

>

>

> > > can we be happy with anybody?

> > No.

> >

> > We can ONLY be happy with ourselves.

> of course but being happy with ourselves can we live with anybody

and keep this peace?

>

>

> > > is my thinking of leaving him plain selfissness?

> > > when we say " i love you with all my heart and I am leaving "

what is

> > > making us leave?

> > When you wake up in the morning, what made you wake up?

> >

> > When you drink a glass of water, what makes you swallow?

> >

> > What makes the wind blow?

> >

> > What makes the sun shine?

> >

> > Did you leave him, yet?

> >

> > What is making you stay?

>

> I have a lot of trouble figuring that I don't decide any of this.

No free will? Just a story?

>

>

>

>

> > Sure, because how could they have a life for themselves?

> >

> > How could they not need you?

> >

> mmm excellent point!

>

> > What does it say about them, if they need you?

> For one, I think he needs me to learn how to be a better parent

just as I need him for the

> same. For exemple, he gives them whatever they want to eat rather

than teaching them

> healty food habits. or he gives medication to a 4 yo because he

asks for it even if he is

> not sick... They are children: they need their mother, don't

they? And we are great

> parents together.

>

>

> > What is your thought that makes you sad, when you think of

leaving him?

> I might regret leaving.

> He is a good man.

> He really loves his kids and that should me enough for me.

> He love his boy more than he s daughter and that wight show up if

I'm not around.

> I am being self centered.

> I am acting as a spoled brat. (big one)

> the nuclear family I want I won't have the opportunuity to offer

them.

> I might not find someone to live my nuclear family dream with (...

so i might as well stay)

> I might become sick and have noone to take care of me.

> Seperating is too in. I don t do those " in " things (cute one

ins't it)

> I love sleeping next to him

> If I leave they will be no coming back

> He might choose a new girlfriend that is not " good " for my children

> He likes our lifestyle.

> I will be poorer: no more Schools for the work for some time

> I will miss my children when they are with him

> Moving out might costs me so much

> Moving out means i can't compromise on simple things (spolid brat

again)

> The things I want of feel i don't have are petty

> maybe we can t have it all???

> ....quite a list!

>

> and their is also the good list - list of what great things might

happen if i do leave.

>

>

> > And what is a compromise? Good question. Can you find an answer?

>

[Guest guest]

Hi ~

Thank you for the kind, sweet comments. The feelings are mutual.

Now, about your post. Thanks for the education. I never

differentiated " story " from " thought. " I see now that you are

distinguishing them:

" All of this is thoughts I have had but they never became stories.

The thoughts just appeared, and went away before they were able to

attach. "

Ahhhh....so in this lexicon " thoughts " are the biochemical/electrical

signals in the brain which come and go, a natural operation of the

bodymind mechanism, something that operates on the conscious and

unconscious level. A " story, " however, you define as a thought in

which there is an attachment (I prefer the word " investment " ). Until

I read your post I had always operated under the impression

that " thought " and " story " were synonymous.

You wrote, " For me this is just another proof that it is when we have

a story and believe in it, that we suffer. "

*****I don't see attachments to thoughts as necessarily producing

suffering. I can think of lots of stories that I believe in and the

combination of story/belief does not cause suffering. I must

therefore conclude that there must be something else -- besides

simply having a story and believing in it -- that invokes suffering.

This seems worthy of exploration.

[Guest guest]

>

> Hi ~

>

> Thank you for the kind, sweet comments. The feelings are mutual.

>

> Now, about your post. Thanks for the education. I never

> differentiated " story " from " thought. " I see now that you are

> distinguishing them:

>

> " All of this is thoughts I have had but they never became stories.

> The thoughts just appeared, and went away before they were able to

> attach. "

>

> Ahhhh....so in this lexicon " thoughts " are the

biochemical/electrical

> signals in the brain which come and go, a natural operation of the

> bodymind mechanism, something that operates on the conscious and

> unconscious level. A " story, " however, you define as a thought in

> which there is an attachment (I prefer the word " investment " ).

Until

> I read your post I had always operated under the impression

> that " thought " and " story " were synonymous.

>

>

> You wrote, " For me this is just another proof that it is when we

have

> a story and believe in it, that we suffer. "

>

>

> *****I don't see attachments to thoughts as necessarily producing

> suffering. I can think of lots of stories that I believe in and

the

> combination of story/belief does not cause suffering. I must

> therefore conclude that there must be something else -- besides

> simply having a story and believing in it -- that invokes

suffering.

> This seems worthy of exploration.

>

[Guest guest]

Am 07.03.2006 um 12:32 schrieb elialeros:

>>>> how would you be satisfied? If you were God, what had to change,

>>>> so that Brigitte was satisfied?

> we would spend more time doing family activities outside. He could

> so some activities out

> of the home with the kids. We d go on vacation as a family. We d

> rent cottags for the

> summer. I would not almost always be alone with the kids for

> outside of the home

> activities.

Good, so the family should spend more time doing family activities...

for YOUR pleasure. And they should have FUN doing that, right?

Is that true?

I hear some don't want to do it.

What is it, the family is doing, instead?

And how do you treat them, when they don't share your story of a

happy in activities engaged family? Do you get angry at them? Sad,

that they don't?

How do you let them know how you feel? Words? Looks? Do you give them

the silence treatment?

How do you react, when someone asks you to do something, you let him

know that you don't want to, and he starts using these techniques on

you?

How does that feel, inside of you?

So, again: is it true you want that for your family?

Who would you be with you family, if they had absolutely NO interest

in ANY kind of family activities, and you could not think that thought?

How would you turn it around: " the family should spend more time

doing family activities " ?

>> Answer the question. Then we'll take a look at them.

> thanks!

>

>> If you are unhappy, it's ALWAYS because you know how it would be

>> better.

> if i " know how it could be bettter " than i guess I am not " loving

> what is " ...? am I?

yes, you are not. And if you don't feel happy, you are probably not

loving what is, either. You know how " love " feels, don't you?

And no one said you have to love what is.

It could cost you something you may not be willing to pay.

>>> can we be happy with anybody?

>> No.

>>

>> We can ONLY be happy with ourselves.

> of course but being happy with ourselves can we live with anybody

> and keep this peace?

No one can take away your peace.

>>> is my thinking of leaving him plain selfissness?

>>> when we say " i love you with all my heart and I am leaving " what is

>>> making us leave?

>> When you wake up in the morning, what made you wake up?

>>

>> When you drink a glass of water, what makes you swallow?

>>

>> What makes the wind blow?

>>

>> What makes the sun shine?

>>

>> Did you leave him, yet?

>>

>> What is making you stay?

>

> I have a lot of trouble figuring that I don't decide any of this.

> No free will? Just a story?

If anything " makes " you do something... why would you call it " free

will " ?

You don't have power over others... and you must ask yourself what

you really do have power over.

The only one who knows a valid answer would be you.

>> Sure, because how could they have a life for themselves?

>>

>> How could they not need you?

>>

> mmm excellent point!

>

>> What does it say about them, if they need you?

> For one, I think he needs me to learn how to be a better parent

> just as I need him for the

> same. For exemple, he gives them whatever they want to eat rather

> than teaching them

> healty food habits. or he gives medication to a 4 yo because he

> asks for it even if he is

> not sick... They are children: they need their mother, don't

> they? And we are great

> parents together.

And what does it say about them, if they need you?

They need you.

is it true?

....

>> What is your thought that makes you sad, when you think of leaving

>> him?

> I might regret leaving.

What would happen, if you did?

> He is a good man.

> He really loves his kids and that should me enough for me.

Who said it's not enough?

> He love his boy more than he s daughter and that wight show up if

> I'm not around.

And what would happen, if it would?

> I am being self centered.

The way you say it, it sounds like a bad thing.

> I am acting as a spoled brat. (big one)

Oh, well...

> the nuclear family I want I won't have the opportunuity to offer

> them.

What is that nuclear family you like to talk about?

> I might not find someone to live my nuclear family dream with (...

> so i might as well stay)

Could happen. Do you have it now?

> I might become sick and have noone to take care of me.

And what then?

> Seperating is too in. I don t do those " in " things (cute one ins't

> it)

Yep, it's cute.

What are those " in " things, and who does them? What do you think

about people who do?

> I love sleeping next to him

sweet. So come back at night.

> If I leave they will be no coming back

Gotcha!

This is the one I would pick out.

There will be no coming back.

IS THAT TRUE?

....

> He might choose a new girlfriend that is not " good " for my children

> He likes our lifestyle.

> I will be poorer: no more Schools for the work for some time

> I will miss my children when they are with him

> Moving out might costs me so much

> Moving out means i can't compromise on simple things (spolid brat

> again)

> The things I want of feel i don't have are petty

> maybe we can t have it all???

We can't. Only the good things.

> ....quite a list!

>

> and their is also the good list - list of what great things might

> happen if i do leave.

Until you don't leave, you are with him.

>> And what is a compromise? Good question. Can you find an answer?

Since you didn't answer, here's mine:

I give up on something, to get something I want more.

Love,

[Guest guest]

Yes of course, you´re right. I think. I just remember talking

to an audience and saying " I " . Ok, not so many stories. Try " I am " .

A little more stories, right? And then try " I am a mother, wife,

daughter " . And you have a world of stories. And how much stress do

you feel right now?

*****This is only MY experience, mind you, but ...... there is

nothing BUT stories. They happen all the time and much of the time

we eventually become aware of them (unless one is in a deep coma or

deeply asleep). We aren't aware of them when they actually happen

( " we " aren't " there " when they happen; " we " come in, after-the-fact,

as an afterthought.... " Oh...I just HAD that experience. " .....We don't

participate in " real time " events, events as they are actually

happening in-the-moment.... " we " come in after the event).

Anyway, to me it seems that some stories makes us happy or makes us

nothing special. says that we suffer when we believe in a

story that´s not tru for you,

*****Yes, that seems more like it.

when you´re in someone elses business

*****Although I've been in what I think is another person's business

and there was no suffering there. Walking along the campus drive

where I teach I saw a young woman sitting alone, crying. I walked

over and gently asked if everything was OK. Seems to me I was " in

her business. " After all, I didn't know her. She apparently needed

to be by her self and told me to " bug off. " :-)) I smiled, told her

I hope she has a good day, and walked on. No suffering happened.

And there were other times when I " butted in " similarly and the

person wanted to talk, to share what was upsetting him, and a nice

time was had by both of us. No suffering! It seems to me that

suffering arises when one is in another's business for reasons that

not appropriate for one's self at that time. Sometimes we are just

moved by forces not understood to reach out to others (and

consequently enter their business). That is why I counsel against

make hard-and-fast rules from 's teachings. Don't make it in a

religion or dogma. Each instance, each circumstance, each person, is

unique and varies according to time and place. It's probably good

advice at the start to " stay out of other's business " because the

innate tendency seems to leave ourselves behind when we engage in

other people's business. But, at some point, the two can

simultaneously function (being in another's business and NOT leaving

yourself out of it).

and when you argue with reality. So maybe that is what needs to be

added for it to be painful.

*****Yeah. In my experience arguing with reality is a 100% sure-fire

way to be in pain. But sometimes it happens. The core beliefs that

make us up (we each have our own core beliefs) can be too strong to

let go of at certain times. Like 9/11. There is a core belief I've

attached to that " people shouldn't hurt people. " I don't LIKE to see

people being violent, cruel, or mean to people. I KNOW that happens

(I've done it myself!). But witnessing it is upsetting for me. So,

I see buildings and people burning, destruction, chaos, and -

although it IS reality (of a sort; not the whole story, but a part) -

I get upset. Nothing to be done about it other than to notice it, be

aware of the inconrguence between my core belief and reality, and

attend to the moment. Since I didn't create the core belief, I can't

UNcreate it. Perhaps, at some time, the core belief will alter.

I'll wait and see.

Just some thoughts from the Swedish chick;)

*****Kewl. Just some thoughts from the American dude. ;-)

p.s. Your (tongue-in-cheek) comment about being " the Swedish chick "

reminded me of a wonderful chapter in Charlotte Joko Beck's first

book ( " Every Day Zen: Love & Work " ) called " New Jersey Does Not

Exist. " We get into so much trouble (with ourselves and with others)

when we attach to ANY identity, when we take ANY identity seriously

(including even being male or female). This is not to say that such

identifications aren't useful for us to function. But it is the

*attachment* and the belief that the identifications are anything

more than mere formalities, that causes all the problems.

Hugs!

[Guest guest]

>

> Yes of course, you´re right. I think. I just remember talking

> to an audience and saying " I " . Ok, not so many stories. Try " I am " .

> A little more stories, right? And then try " I am a mother, wife,

> daughter " . And you have a world of stories. And how much stress do

> you feel right now?

>

>

> *****This is only MY experience, mind you, but ...... there is

> nothing BUT stories. They happen all the time and much of the

time

> we eventually become aware of them (unless one is in a deep coma

or

> deeply asleep). We aren't aware of them when they actually happen

> ( " we " aren't " there " when they happen; " we " come in, after-the-

fact,

> as an afterthought.... " Oh...I just HAD that experience. " .....We

don't

> participate in " real time " events, events as they are actually

> happening in-the-moment.... " we " come in after the event).

¤¤ And I just love it when says: Everything is a story - and

that´s a story too. That´s mindblowing!

>

>

> Anyway, to me it seems that some stories makes us happy or makes us

> nothing special. says that we suffer when we believe in a

> story that´s not tru for you,

>

>

> *****Yes, that seems more like it.

>

>

> when you´re in someone elses business

>

>

> *****Although I've been in what I think is another person's

business

> and there was no suffering there. Walking along the campus drive

> where I teach I saw a young woman sitting alone, crying. I walked

> over and gently asked if everything was OK. Seems to me I was " in

> her business. " After all, I didn't know her. She apparently

needed

> to be by her self and told me to " bug off. " :-)) I smiled, told

her

> I hope she has a good day, and walked on. No suffering happened.

> And there were other times when I " butted in " similarly and the

> person wanted to talk, to share what was upsetting him, and a nice

> time was had by both of us. No suffering! It seems to me that

> suffering arises when one is in another's business for reasons

that

> not appropriate for one's self at that time. Sometimes we are

just

> moved by forces not understood to reach out to others (and

> consequently enter their business).

¤¤ I agree completely with you Andy. And were you really in her

business? I see a big difference between what you describe and the

thought " she should be grateful for my help " or " she should want to

have sex with me now " . Whose business it is who you help? Yours.

Whose business is it who she is grateful to or have sex with? Hers.

That is why I counsel against

> make hard-and-fast rules from 's teachings. Don't make it in

a

> religion or dogma.

¤¤Again, I agree. The Work is no more, no less than you make of it.

Of course you can make a religion out of it if you want. Or you can

see it as 4 silly questions that never done you any good. And in the

end we are exactly where we should be.

Each instance, each circumstance, each person, is

> unique and varies according to time and place. It's probably good

> advice at the start to " stay out of other's business " because the

> innate tendency seems to leave ourselves behind when we engage in

> other people's business. But, at some point, the two can

> simultaneously function (being in another's business and NOT

leaving

> yourself out of it).

¤¤ For me that just isn´t true. Either I am in someone elses

business or I´m not. And this has not with action to do, but my

thinking. The minute I go into your business in my thinking, I leave

my own, and that hurts. And it has nothing to do with helping a

children alone and crying on the streests, or asking Hans: you look

so troubled honey, is there anything I can do for you?

Being in others business is when I think: Mothers should take better

care of there children! Now I have to do it, and I´m actually in a

hurry! Or when I think: Why the f-k is Hans sitting there, looking

so cranky? He should be happy God dammit!

>

>

> and when you argue with reality. So maybe that is what needs to be

> added for it to be painful.

>

>

> *****Yeah. In my experience arguing with reality is a 100% sure-

fire

> way to be in pain. But sometimes it happens. The core beliefs

that

> make us up (we each have our own core beliefs) can be too strong

to

> let go of at certain times. Like 9/11. There is a core belief

I've

> attached to that " people shouldn't hurt people. "

¤¤ Yes, there you have it all. Believing a story that isn´t true for

you, arguing with reality (seems like people got hurt, doesn´t it?)

and being in others business (whose business is it who iI hurt, and

what has it got to do with you?)

I don't LIKE to see

> people being violent, cruel, or mean to people. I KNOW that

happens

> (I've done it myself!). But witnessing it is upsetting for me.

So,

> I see buildings and people burning, destruction, chaos, and -

> although it IS reality (of a sort; not the whole story, but a

part) -

> I get upset. Nothing to be done about it other than to notice it,

be

> aware of the inconrguence between my core belief and reality, and

> attend to the moment. Since I didn't create the core belief, I

can't

> UNcreate it. Perhaps, at some time, the core belief will alter.

> I'll wait and see.

¤¤ No, you can´t uncreate it, but you can investigate it. Over and

over if that is what it takes to bring you back home to you, to

peace. And then maybe one day you will notice that this story just

went away by itself

>

>

>

> Just some thoughts from the Swedish chick;)

>

> *****Kewl. Just some thoughts from the American dude. ;-)

>

> p.s. Your (tongue-in-cheek) comment about being " the Swedish

chick "

> reminded me of a wonderful chapter in Charlotte Joko Beck's first

> book ( " Every Day Zen: Love & Work " ) called " New Jersey Does Not

> Exist. " We get into so much trouble (with ourselves and with

others)

> when we attach to ANY identity, when we take ANY identity

seriously

> (including even being male or female). This is not to say that

such

> identifications aren't useful for us to function. But it is the

> *attachment* and the belief that the identifications are anything

> more than mere formalities, that causes all the problems.

>

> Hugs!

¤¤ Well, then it´s a good thing that I have so many UNseriosly

identities then;)! Right now I´m an angel with horns, sitting on

your shoulder, giggling in you ear... Can you hear it;)?

[Guest guest]

>

>

> Am 07.03.2006 um 12:32 schrieb elialeros:

>

> >>>> how would you be satisfied? If you were God, what had to change,

> >>>> so that Brigitte was satisfied?

> > we would spend more time doing family activities outside. He could

> > so some activities out

> > of the home with the kids. We d go on vacation as a family. We d

> > rent cottags for the

> > summer. I would not almost always be alone with the kids for

> > outside of the home

> > activities.

> Good, so the family should spend more time doing family activities...

> for YOUR pleasure. And they should have FUN doing that, right?

>

> Is that true?

>

> I hear some don't want to do it.

> What is it, the family is doing, instead?

>

> And how do you treat them, when they don't share your story of a

> happy in activities engaged family? Do you get angry at them? Sad,

> that they don't?

>

> How do you let them know how you feel? Words? Looks? Do you give them

> the silence treatment?

>

> How do you react, when someone asks you to do something, you let him

> know that you don't want to, and he starts using these techniques on

> you?

> How does that feel, inside of you?

>

> So, again: is it true you want that for your family?

>

> Who would you be with you family, if they had absolutely NO interest

> in ANY kind of family activities, and you could not think that

thought?

>

> How would you turn it around: " the family should spend more time

> doing family activities " ?

>

> >> Answer the question. Then we'll take a look at them.

> > thanks!

> >

> >> If you are unhappy, it's ALWAYS because you know how it would be

> >> better.

> > if i " know how it could be bettter " than i guess I am not " loving

> > what is " ...? am I?

> yes, you are not. And if you don't feel happy, you are probably not

> loving what is, either. You know how " love " feels, don't you?

>

> And no one said you have to love what is.

>

> It could cost you something you may not be willing to pay.

>

>

> >>> can we be happy with anybody?

> >> No.

> >>

> >> We can ONLY be happy with ourselves.

> > of course but being happy with ourselves can we live with anybody

> > and keep this peace?

> No one can take away your peace.

>

> >>> is my thinking of leaving him plain selfissness?

> >>> when we say " i love you with all my heart and I am leaving " what

is

> >>> making us leave?

> >> When you wake up in the morning, what made you wake up?

> >>

> >> When you drink a glass of water, what makes you swallow?

> >>

> >> What makes the wind blow?

> >>

> >> What makes the sun shine?

> >>

> >> Did you leave him, yet?

> >>

> >> What is making you stay?

> >

> > I have a lot of trouble figuring that I don't decide any of this.

> > No free will? Just a story?

> If anything " makes " you do something... why would you call it " free

> will " ?

>

> You don't have power over others... and you must ask yourself what

> you really do have power over.

>

> The only one who knows a valid answer would be you.

>

>

> >> Sure, because how could they have a life for themselves?

> >>

> >> How could they not need you?

> >>

> > mmm excellent point!

> >

> >> What does it say about them, if they need you?

> > For one, I think he needs me to learn how to be a better parent

> > just as I need him for the

> > same. For exemple, he gives them whatever they want to eat rather

> > than teaching them

> > healty food habits. or he gives medication to a 4 yo because he

> > asks for it even if he is

> > not sick... They are children: they need their mother, don't

> > they? And we are great

> > parents together.

> And what does it say about them, if they need you?

>

> They need you.

> is it true?

>

> ...

>

>

> >> What is your thought that makes you sad, when you think of leaving

> >> him?

> > I might regret leaving.

> What would happen, if you did?

>

> > He is a good man.

> > He really loves his kids and that should me enough for me.

> Who said it's not enough?

>

> > He love his boy more than he s daughter and that wight show up if

> > I'm not around.

> And what would happen, if it would?

>

> > I am being self centered.

> The way you say it, it sounds like a bad thing.

>

> > I am acting as a spoled brat. (big one)

> Oh, well...

>

> > the nuclear family I want I won't have the opportunuity to offer

> > them.

> What is that nuclear family you like to talk about?

>

> > I might not find someone to live my nuclear family dream with (...

> > so i might as well stay)

> Could happen. Do you have it now?

>

> > I might become sick and have noone to take care of me.

> And what then?

>

> > Seperating is too in. I don t do those " in " things (cute one ins't

> > it)

> Yep, it's cute.

>

> What are those " in " things, and who does them? What do you think

> about people who do?

>

> > I love sleeping next to him

> sweet. So come back at night.

>

> > If I leave they will be no coming back

> Gotcha!

>

> This is the one I would pick out.

>

> There will be no coming back.

>

> IS THAT TRUE?

>

> ...

>

> > He might choose a new girlfriend that is not " good " for my children

> > He likes our lifestyle.

> > I will be poorer: no more Schools for the work for some time

> > I will miss my children when they are with him

> > Moving out might costs me so much

> > Moving out means i can't compromise on simple things (spolid brat

> > again)

> > The things I want of feel i don't have are petty

> > maybe we can t have it all???

> We can't. Only the good things.

>

> > ....quite a list!

> >

> > and their is also the good list - list of what great things might

> > happen if i do leave.

> Until you don't leave, you are with him.

>

> >> And what is a compromise? Good question. Can you find an answer?

> Since you didn't answer, here's mine:

>

> I give up on something, to get something I want more.

>

> Love,

>

>