Re: So Deep in the FOG - This is ridculous

[Guest guest]

Hi there,

To break the conditioned response of putting nada's feelings before

our own takes awareness...and then practice. I've heard of different

ways to break a habit and one of them is to put a rubber band around

your wrist and whenever you have a thought you don't want, to snap

it.

That could work for us KO's. Whenver you think of nada and her

feelings 'snap it' and replace that conditioned thought with 'what

do I need, what are my feelings.'

Enmeshment takes time to separate from. Its like when you see two

cells under a microscope merge together. The blend and merge. I was

thinking today that life with nada was liked being hitched to a

wagon that is blindly racing over bumpy roads and headed in the

wrong direction. Once we un-hitch ourselves from the wagon (nada) we

may have damage and lots of repairs to do but at least we are

unattached....and still.

We may be stuck in the mud for awhile or need to mend a tire but we

have come to a stop and that is when we have time to think, rest and

regroup. We look around, where are we? Where do we want to go?

Questions we weren't able to ask ourselves before because there was

such danger to watch out for that there wasn't time to think.

I will tell you what helped me break away. First...therapy. My

therapist helped me to focus and get in touch with my feelings and

over time I began to awaken from the FOG and into the light of

clarity.

Like you, I still couldn't imagine actually ending contact. I

worried about nada's reaction and her feelings. I still hadn't

realized that I had the right to happiness. The feelings of

obligation were still too strong and I kept putting nada's feelings

before my own, but I kept on seeing my therapist and over time

began, if only for brief moments, to actually consider ending

contact. I couldn't believe it because just a few months earlier I

thought it impossible but the more I got in touch with my true

feelings, the more my inner voice said 'uh, I think this one

is a no-brainer.'

And once we have a shift in perception in the right direction,

something takes hold and binds us within. It keeps us headed towards

our selves and away from the bondage of abuse. Over time not only

can we see nada as an abusive toxic person, but we can't believe we

ever put up with it.

And that is when We really get it. All falls into place and we can

see it so clearly as if with new eyes. After I went n/c, the thought

of picking up the phone and calling nada would be like asking me to

drink a bottle of poison. Something in me wouldn't let me.

I had become connected with my true self and I discovered that I had

resolve. And I had no desire to put up with the abuse anymore. I had

broken free. The spell was broken.

It is definitely a process and this group helped me tremendously.

The FOG comes in waves especially as we consider letting go. But it

is a house built on cards and the truth can shatter it with a faint

blow. <poof> and it all falls down.

Nada's play a game of smoke and mirrors, parlor tricks and their

trump card is time, they start brainwashing and conditioning us at

an early age, but when we finally catch up, the curtain gets pulled

back and there is no wizard, no great powerful oz, just a

manipulative person using intimidation and force. Once you really

get it, deep down, the game is over. And you are free.

Keep reading and posting here, consider therapy if you don't already

go and read the books (UBM, etc) that keep filling you with the

truth. That part of you that wants to be free will grab hold of it

and never let go. But it takes time, all these things have their own

rhythm and pace. It took time to become enmeshed and it stands to

reason and rightly so, that it will take time to separate. Just

because you aren't where you want to be with this, don't stop moving

in the right direction. You will get there.

When that happens it seems to

>

> I feel so stuck and sick. My nada broke off contact with me nine

> years ago and then came back into the picture seven years ago.

(I'm

> thinking NOW that I probably shouldn't have gone back, but at the

time

> I thought I could have clear boundaries). In the last seven years,

> she's been fairly good at keeping the rages to an almost non-

existant

> level and the projections and splitting to herself. I had my first

> child, a son, 2.5 years ago and we've allowed nada to be a part of

his

> life, seeing him a couple times a month, even babysitting him with

my

> father. I was so in denial of what had happened and so hoping that

> things would be different!

>

> We've recently had a drama caused in part by my BP sister and I've

> realized that 1) I've been hoovered these last 7 years 2) my mom's

in

> the realtionship for the grandson, and 3) she is still making me

the

> bad guy.

>

> And yet! I get sick when I think of keeping contact low or cutting

off

> contact completely. I keep thinking about it from HER perspective

and

> I want to protect her from the pain of losing a grandson. No

matter

> that when I flip it over in my mind and think of someone doing what

> she did to me, to my son, (parent alientation, forced dependency,

> emotional and verbal abuse) that I want to protect him fiercely and

> fight them off. I notice here that I say someone and not my nada.

> It's like both sides are battling within me.

>

> She just left a msg tonight on the answering machine. I've had the

> ringer off because I want to ignore her until I figure out what I

want

> to do. Just listening to it I felt fearful of what I had in mind

to

> do (cutting off contact). At the same time the msg wasn't for me

and

> how I was doing. It was a call to my son to say goodnight.

>

> It's like I can't bear to hurt her even though she hurt me.

>

> a

>

[Guest guest]

a -

You said something that is exactly what i feel all of the time - and i guess

it is maybe what most of us feel.......despite the fact that we have been hurt

by so many things - i still feel so very responsible for my mother's happiness

and the last thing in the world i want to do is hurt her in any way. I always

seem to try an put myself in her shoes and wonder how she must be feeling.....I

have more compassion for someone that treats me like crap at times than i do for

myself at any time.....

I guess we have been brainwashed for all the years that we should only care

what they think, what they feel, what they do, what they say - and to do

anything different makes us bad people.....

Hang in there - somehow we are all going to get through this crap!

baast2play wrote:

I feel so stuck and sick. My nada broke off contact with me nine

years ago and then came back into the picture seven years ago. (I'm

thinking NOW that I probably shouldn't have gone back, but at the time

I thought I could have clear boundaries). In the last seven years,

she's been fairly good at keeping the rages to an almost non-existant

level and the projections and splitting to herself. I had my first

child, a son, 2.5 years ago and we've allowed nada to be a part of his

life, seeing him a couple times a month, even babysitting him with my

father. I was so in denial of what had happened and so hoping that

things would be different!

We've recently had a drama caused in part by my BP sister and I've

realized that 1) I've been hoovered these last 7 years 2) my mom's in

the realtionship for the grandson, and 3) she is still making me the

bad guy.

And yet! I get sick when I think of keeping contact low or cutting off

contact completely. I keep thinking about it from HER perspective and

I want to protect her from the pain of losing a grandson. No matter

that when I flip it over in my mind and think of someone doing what

she did to me, to my son, (parent alientation, forced dependency,

emotional and verbal abuse) that I want to protect him fiercely and

fight them off. I notice here that I say someone and not my nada.

It's like both sides are battling within me.

She just left a msg tonight on the answering machine. I've had the

ringer off because I want to ignore her until I figure out what I want

to do. Just listening to it I felt fearful of what I had in mind to

do (cutting off contact). At the same time the msg wasn't for me and

how I was doing. It was a call to my son to say goodnight.

It's like I can't bear to hurt her even though she hurt me.

a

abstract thoughts....in rhyme

djokieff.com

---------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

- what a great write! You bring it all together with such clairty - just

new to this and knowing that i need to make changes...just reading this post

gives me hope....

dawn

cre8within wrote:

Hi there,

To break the conditioned response of putting nada's feelings before

our own takes awareness...and then practice. I've heard of different

ways to break a habit and one of them is to put a rubber band around

your wrist and whenever you have a thought you don't want, to snap

it.

That could work for us KO's. Whenver you think of nada and her

feelings 'snap it' and replace that conditioned thought with 'what

do I need, what are my feelings.'

Enmeshment takes time to separate from. Its like when you see two

cells under a microscope merge together. The blend and merge. I was

thinking today that life with nada was liked being hitched to a

wagon that is blindly racing over bumpy roads and headed in the

wrong direction. Once we un-hitch ourselves from the wagon (nada) we

may have damage and lots of repairs to do but at least we are

unattached....and still.

We may be stuck in the mud for awhile or need to mend a tire but we

have come to a stop and that is when we have time to think, rest and

regroup. We look around, where are we? Where do we want to go?

Questions we weren't able to ask ourselves before because there was

such danger to watch out for that there wasn't time to think.

I will tell you what helped me break away. First...therapy. My

therapist helped me to focus and get in touch with my feelings and

over time I began to awaken from the FOG and into the light of

clarity.

Like you, I still couldn't imagine actually ending contact. I

worried about nada's reaction and her feelings. I still hadn't

realized that I had the right to happiness. The feelings of

obligation were still too strong and I kept putting nada's feelings

before my own, but I kept on seeing my therapist and over time

began, if only for brief moments, to actually consider ending

contact. I couldn't believe it because just a few months earlier I

thought it impossible but the more I got in touch with my true

feelings, the more my inner voice said 'uh, I think this one

is a no-brainer.'

And once we have a shift in perception in the right direction,

something takes hold and binds us within. It keeps us headed towards

our selves and away from the bondage of abuse. Over time not only

can we see nada as an abusive toxic person, but we can't believe we

ever put up with it.

And that is when We really get it. All falls into place and we can

see it so clearly as if with new eyes. After I went n/c, the thought

of picking up the phone and calling nada would be like asking me to

drink a bottle of poison. Something in me wouldn't let me.

I had become connected with my true self and I discovered that I had

resolve. And I had no desire to put up with the abuse anymore. I had

broken free. The spell was broken.

It is definitely a process and this group helped me tremendously.

The FOG comes in waves especially as we consider letting go. But it

is a house built on cards and the truth can shatter it with a faint

blow. <poof> and it all falls down.

Nada's play a game of smoke and mirrors, parlor tricks and their

trump card is time, they start brainwashing and conditioning us at

an early age, but when we finally catch up, the curtain gets pulled

back and there is no wizard, no great powerful oz, just a

manipulative person using intimidation and force. Once you really

get it, deep down, the game is over. And you are free.

Keep reading and posting here, consider therapy if you don't already

go and read the books (UBM, etc) that keep filling you with the

truth. That part of you that wants to be free will grab hold of it

and never let go. But it takes time, all these things have their own

rhythm and pace. It took time to become enmeshed and it stands to

reason and rightly so, that it will take time to separate. Just

because you aren't where you want to be with this, don't stop moving

in the right direction. You will get there.

When that happens it seems to

>

> I feel so stuck and sick. My nada broke off contact with me nine

> years ago and then came back into the picture seven years ago.

(I'm

> thinking NOW that I probably shouldn't have gone back, but at the

time

> I thought I could have clear boundaries). In the last seven years,

> she's been fairly good at keeping the rages to an almost non-

existant

> level and the projections and splitting to herself. I had my first

> child, a son, 2.5 years ago and we've allowed nada to be a part of

his

> life, seeing him a couple times a month, even babysitting him with

my

> father. I was so in denial of what had happened and so hoping that

> things would be different!

>

> We've recently had a drama caused in part by my BP sister and I've

> realized that 1) I've been hoovered these last 7 years 2) my mom's

in

> the realtionship for the grandson, and 3) she is still making me

the

> bad guy.

>

> And yet! I get sick when I think of keeping contact low or cutting

off

> contact completely. I keep thinking about it from HER perspective

and

> I want to protect her from the pain of losing a grandson. No

matter

> that when I flip it over in my mind and think of someone doing what

> she did to me, to my son, (parent alientation, forced dependency,

> emotional and verbal abuse) that I want to protect him fiercely and

> fight them off. I notice here that I say someone and not my nada.

> It's like both sides are battling within me.

>

> She just left a msg tonight on the answering machine. I've had the

> ringer off because I want to ignore her until I figure out what I

want

> to do. Just listening to it I felt fearful of what I had in mind

to

> do (cutting off contact). At the same time the msg wasn't for me

and

> how I was doing. It was a call to my son to say goodnight.

>

> It's like I can't bear to hurt her even though she hurt me.

>

> a

>

abstract thoughts....in rhyme

djokieff.com

---------------------------------

All-new Yahoo! Mail - Fire up a more powerful email and get things done faster.

[Guest guest]

ERica --

Hang in there -- you'll get to the point where you regard your own

mental health (and that of your child!) as more important than

anyone else. We've been conditioned to believe that we're

responsible for the BPD's happiness (Atlas Syndrome: it's up to us

to hold everybody else! Not true -- everyone is responsible for

their own happiness.) and that if they get mad at us, it's the end

of the world!

Well, you have your own family now and they are your FIRST

priority. You need to role model to your child how to navigate this

life not being a victim of intensely selfish people.

I heard a great saying yesterday and it's true: You know you're a

grown up when you no longer care what your parents think.

I promise that the sun will still come up in the morning when you're

a grown up, living your own life and raising your family to be

healthy people out in the world.

>

> I feel so stuck and sick. My nada broke off contact with me nine

> years ago and then came back into the picture seven years ago.

(I'm

> thinking NOW that I probably shouldn't have gone back, but at the

time

> I thought I could have clear boundaries). In the last seven years,

> she's been fairly good at keeping the rages to an almost non-

existant

> level and the projections and splitting to herself. I had my first

> child, a son, 2.5 years ago and we've allowed nada to be a part of

his

> life, seeing him a couple times a month, even babysitting him with

my

> father. I was so in denial of what had happened and so hoping that

> things would be different!

>

> We've recently had a drama caused in part by my BP sister and I've

> realized that 1) I've been hoovered these last 7 years 2) my mom's

in

> the realtionship for the grandson, and 3) she is still making me

the

> bad guy.

>

> And yet! I get sick when I think of keeping contact low or cutting

off

> contact completely. I keep thinking about it from HER perspective

and

> I want to protect her from the pain of losing a grandson. No

matter

> that when I flip it over in my mind and think of someone doing what

> she did to me, to my son, (parent alientation, forced dependency,

> emotional and verbal abuse) that I want to protect him fiercely and

> fight them off. I notice here that I say someone and not my nada.

> It's like both sides are battling within me.

>

> She just left a msg tonight on the answering machine. I've had the

> ringer off because I want to ignore her until I figure out what I

want

> to do. Just listening to it I felt fearful of what I had in mind

to

> do (cutting off contact). At the same time the msg wasn't for me

and

> how I was doing. It was a call to my son to say goodnight.

>

> It's like I can't bear to hurt her even though she hurt me.

>

> a

>

[Guest guest]

-- What a great, inspiring post -- such wise words. I'm

printing it --

Thank you,

Kyla

> >

> > I feel so stuck and sick. My nada broke off contact with me nine

> > years ago and then came back into the picture seven years ago.

> (I'm

> > thinking NOW that I probably shouldn't have gone back, but at

the

> time

> > I thought I could have clear boundaries). In the last seven

years,

> > she's been fairly good at keeping the rages to an almost non-

> existant

> > level and the projections and splitting to herself. I had my

first

> > child, a son, 2.5 years ago and we've allowed nada to be a part

of

> his

> > life, seeing him a couple times a month, even babysitting him

with

> my

> > father. I was so in denial of what had happened and so hoping

that

> > things would be different!

> >

> > We've recently had a drama caused in part by my BP sister and

I've

> > realized that 1) I've been hoovered these last 7 years 2) my

mom's

> in

> > the realtionship for the grandson, and 3) she is still making me

> the

> > bad guy.

> >

> > And yet! I get sick when I think of keeping contact low or

cutting

> off

> > contact completely. I keep thinking about it from HER

perspective

> and

> > I want to protect her from the pain of losing a grandson. No

> matter

> > that when I flip it over in my mind and think of someone doing

what

> > she did to me, to my son, (parent alientation, forced dependency,

> > emotional and verbal abuse) that I want to protect him fiercely

and

> > fight them off. I notice here that I say someone and not my

nada.

> > It's like both sides are battling within me.

> >

> > She just left a msg tonight on the answering machine. I've had

the

> > ringer off because I want to ignore her until I figure out what

I

> want

> > to do. Just listening to it I felt fearful of what I had in

mind

> to

> > do (cutting off contact). At the same time the msg wasn't for

me

> and

> > how I was doing. It was a call to my son to say goodnight.

> >

> > It's like I can't bear to hurt her even though she hurt me.

> >

> > a

> >

>

[Guest guest]

a,You know I cut contact for the safety of my children and even

then there were times I found myself thinking of my mom her pain her

sadness and her hurt. Never mind she was the abuser physical,

emotional and otherwise. So when I started to think about it, I

would remind myself, maybe this will help you to. If say for some

odd reason 20 years from now I am mentally ill and I abuse my

children and grandchildren physically mentally and otherwise, I hope

and pray that my child will take a stand and protect the ones who

are unable to protect themselves. I was not protected as a k/o and I

would hate to see my children or grandchildren being raised in that.

I would think it is not fair to the child and above all that is what

we need to think of. So please if you think she has the potential to

rage at your child or hurt him keep that in the back of your mind. I

did and now I know my children are being raised in a safe

environment. So even though you may think it is not the most ideal

of circumstances it may be this way for a reason. It really pulled

me through to think of it on hat light I hope this helps you to.

Love lizzy

>

> I feel so stuck and sick. My nada broke off contact with me nine

> years ago and then came back into the picture seven years ago.

(I'm

> thinking NOW that I probably shouldn't have gone back, but at the

time

> I thought I could have clear boundaries). In the last seven years,

> she's been fairly good at keeping the rages to an almost non-

existant

> level and the projections and splitting to herself. I had my first

> child, a son, 2.5 years ago and we've allowed nada to be a part of

his

> life, seeing him a couple times a month, even babysitting him with

my

> father. I was so in denial of what had happened and so hoping that

> things would be different!

>

> We've recently had a drama caused in part by my BP sister and I've

> realized that 1) I've been hoovered these last 7 years 2) my mom's

in

> the realtionship for the grandson, and 3) she is still making me

the

> bad guy.

>

> And yet! I get sick when I think of keeping contact low or cutting

off

> contact completely. I keep thinking about it from HER perspective

and

> I want to protect her from the pain of losing a grandson. No

matter

> that when I flip it over in my mind and think of someone doing what

> she did to me, to my son, (parent alientation, forced dependency,

> emotional and verbal abuse) that I want to protect him fiercely and

> fight them off. I notice here that I say someone and not my nada.

> It's like both sides are battling within me.

>

> She just left a msg tonight on the answering machine. I've had the

> ringer off because I want to ignore her until I figure out what I

want

> to do. Just listening to it I felt fearful of what I had in mind

to

> do (cutting off contact). At the same time the msg wasn't for me

and

> how I was doing. It was a call to my son to say goodnight.

>

> It's like I can't bear to hurt her even though she hurt me.

>

> a

>

[Guest guest]

a-

While I was reading your post, the first thing that popped into my

head was " Well, it's not like your nada actually cares about your

son. She's just using him to keep you enmeshed. " That may sound

harsh, and I apologize if it does, but it's the truth. BPD's can't

accept that the people they've claimed as their own could possibly

exist without them. So when you CAN exist without them, it ruptures

their little bubble. And they practice all the different ways to

keep you from bursting their little bubble until they find the one

that works best, because that bubble is really all they have. For

you, that method seems to be your son.

I have to say, from personal experience, having a grannada is almost

as bad as having a nada, the only difference is you don't have to

live with them day in, day out. But the toxicity of these people

permeates everything they touch. You can't escape a relationship

with one unscathed. Your son won't be any different.

I say that you shouldn't worry about your nada's feelings, because

she isn't worried about your son's feelings, or yours. She just

isn't capable of it.

Neko Jaimie

[Guest guest]

Thank you for taking the time to write back to me and support me. I

thought I worked through all of this years ago in therapy during the

first break in contact (initiated by nada). I guess it's my turn

this time to take the control and say " no. "

I noticed last night that I resisted my temptation to call her back

and the more time I allowed myself to sit with the discomfort, the

more the FOG lifted and I saw the truth.

I talked with my husband late last night and we agreed that a

relationship with nada is like dancing with fire for me. I've been

trying to find out how close I can get to the fire without getting

burned, but the fact is, I shouldn't be dancing with fire. I

realize too that my relationship with her is like an addiction.

You are all right. I have to choose my husband, son and MYSELF over

Nada. I realized an even deeper threat in her comment that " my

greatest fear is that you will take Cirdan away from me " and that is

how she could define me taking him away from her. We could keep

dancing this fire dance and she would find ways to break Cirdan and

I apart and make him dependent on her, or I can break it cleanly and

all together. I don't want my son hurt like I was. Enough is

enough.

And I just have to keep telling myself that. Like many of you, I

bet, I just wish I could tell her and have her validate. Ain't

gonna happen!

Thanks, guys.

a

>

> I feel so stuck and sick. My nada broke off contact with me nine

> years ago and then came back into the picture seven years ago.

(I'm

> thinking NOW that I probably shouldn't have gone back, but at the

time

> I thought I could have clear boundaries). In the last seven years,

> she's been fairly good at keeping the rages to an almost non-

existant

> level and the projections and splitting to herself. I had my first

> child, a son, 2.5 years ago and we've allowed nada to be a part of

his

> life, seeing him a couple times a month, even babysitting him with

my

> father. I was so in denial of what had happened and so hoping that

> things would be different!

>

> We've recently had a drama caused in part by my BP sister and I've

> realized that 1) I've been hoovered these last 7 years 2) my mom's

in

> the realtionship for the grandson, and 3) she is still making me

the

> bad guy.

>

> And yet! I get sick when I think of keeping contact low or cutting

off

> contact completely. I keep thinking about it from HER perspective

and

> I want to protect her from the pain of losing a grandson. No

matter

> that when I flip it over in my mind and think of someone doing what

> she did to me, to my son, (parent alientation, forced dependency,

> emotional and verbal abuse) that I want to protect him fiercely and

> fight them off. I notice here that I say someone and not my nada.

> It's like both sides are battling within me.

>

> She just left a msg tonight on the answering machine. I've had the

> ringer off because I want to ignore her until I figure out what I

want

> to do. Just listening to it I felt fearful of what I had in mind

to

> do (cutting off contact). At the same time the msg wasn't for me

and

> how I was doing. It was a call to my son to say goodnight.

>

> It's like I can't bear to hurt her even though she hurt me.

>

> a

>

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Lizzy. That's a wise perspective. My nada rarely got

physical, it was all emotional and verbal abuse. She's just off and

very much clinging to her suffering. Her favorite saying use to

be " If Mama Ain't Happy, Ain't Nobody Happy. " It's things like that

that tell me it's time to go.

> >

> > I feel so stuck and sick. My nada broke off contact with me nine

> > years ago and then came back into the picture seven years ago.

> (I'm

> > thinking NOW that I probably shouldn't have gone back, but at

the

> time

> > I thought I could have clear boundaries). In the last seven

years,

> > she's been fairly good at keeping the rages to an almost non-

> existant

> > level and the projections and splitting to herself. I had my

first

> > child, a son, 2.5 years ago and we've allowed nada to be a part

of

> his

> > life, seeing him a couple times a month, even babysitting him

with

> my

> > father. I was so in denial of what had happened and so hoping

that

> > things would be different!

> >

> > We've recently had a drama caused in part by my BP sister and

I've

> > realized that 1) I've been hoovered these last 7 years 2) my

mom's

> in

> > the realtionship for the grandson, and 3) she is still making me

> the

> > bad guy.

> >

> > And yet! I get sick when I think of keeping contact low or

cutting

> off

> > contact completely. I keep thinking about it from HER

perspective

> and

> > I want to protect her from the pain of losing a grandson. No

> matter

> > that when I flip it over in my mind and think of someone doing

what

> > she did to me, to my son, (parent alientation, forced dependency,

> > emotional and verbal abuse) that I want to protect him fiercely

and

> > fight them off. I notice here that I say someone and not my

nada.

> > It's like both sides are battling within me.

> >

> > She just left a msg tonight on the answering machine. I've had

the

> > ringer off because I want to ignore her until I figure out what

I

> want

> > to do. Just listening to it I felt fearful of what I had in

mind

> to

> > do (cutting off contact). At the same time the msg wasn't for

me

> and

> > how I was doing. It was a call to my son to say goodnight.

> >

> > It's like I can't bear to hurt her even though she hurt me.

> >

> > a

> >

>

[Guest guest]

> a -

>

> You said something that is exactly what i feel all of the time -

and i guess it is maybe what most of us feel.......despite the fact

that we have been hurt by so many things - i still feel so very

responsible for my mother's happiness and the last thing in the

world i want to do is hurt her in any way. I always seem to try an

put myself in her shoes and wonder how she must be feeling.....I

have more compassion for someone that treats me like crap at times

than i do for myself at any time.....

>

> I guess we have been brainwashed for all the years that we

should only care what they think, what they feel, what they do, what

they say - and to do anything different makes us bad people.....

>

> Hang in there - somehow we are all going to get through this

crap!

>

>

[Guest guest]

" If Mama Ain't Happy, Ain't Nobody Happy. " That was one of my nadas

favorites too lol. Love Lizzy

> > >

> > > I feel so stuck and sick. My nada broke off contact with me

nine

> > > years ago and then came back into the picture seven years

ago.

> > (I'm

> > > thinking NOW that I probably shouldn't have gone back, but at

> the

> > time

> > > I thought I could have clear boundaries). In the last seven

> years,

> > > she's been fairly good at keeping the rages to an almost non-

> > existant

> > > level and the projections and splitting to herself. I had my

> first

> > > child, a son, 2.5 years ago and we've allowed nada to be a

part

> of

> > his

> > > life, seeing him a couple times a month, even babysitting him

> with

> > my

> > > father. I was so in denial of what had happened and so hoping

> that

> > > things would be different!

> > >

> > > We've recently had a drama caused in part by my BP sister and

> I've

> > > realized that 1) I've been hoovered these last 7 years 2) my

> mom's

> > in

> > > the realtionship for the grandson, and 3) she is still making

me

> > the

> > > bad guy.

> > >

> > > And yet! I get sick when I think of keeping contact low or

> cutting

> > off

> > > contact completely. I keep thinking about it from HER

> perspective

> > and

> > > I want to protect her from the pain of losing a grandson. No

> > matter

> > > that when I flip it over in my mind and think of someone doing

> what

> > > she did to me, to my son, (parent alientation, forced

dependency,

> > > emotional and verbal abuse) that I want to protect him

fiercely

> and

> > > fight them off. I notice here that I say someone and not my

> nada.

> > > It's like both sides are battling within me.

> > >

> > > She just left a msg tonight on the answering machine. I've

had

> the

> > > ringer off because I want to ignore her until I figure out

what

> I

> > want

> > > to do. Just listening to it I felt fearful of what I had in

> mind

> > to

> > > do (cutting off contact). At the same time the msg wasn't for

> me

> > and

> > > how I was doing. It was a call to my son to say goodnight.

> > >

> > > It's like I can't bear to hurt her even though she hurt me.

> > >

> > > a

> > >

> >

>