Guest guest Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Hi: Thanks so much for the advice. I too am a teacher and can appreciate your approach. May I ask...how old were your children when you employed this strategy? I think tomorrow, we'll all sit down and I'll ask them how they feel about being with their grandmother. Thanks again. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Well, the saga continues. For those of you who haven't read my past posts, I hadn't seen my mother for a month. She finally called. I told her the only chance she had of seeing my children was if she got into therapy. She went paranoid on me, told me I was being brainwashed by my husband and his family. That's when I told her I would not get into it with her and I hung up. She then called back the next morning and said, " You know...maybe it would be best for us both to get into family therapy. " Her tone so clearly revealed that she felt I needed therapy, so she was going to support me. Hah! Sorry...I'll continue. I told her I would not have any more contact with her until we started the therapy. Next day she calls. I don't answer. She hangs up, no message. Thirty seconds later, my front door is opening. My kids are in a trance watching " Cars. " My four year old yells, " It's grandma! " and starts to get up to go to the door while still half watching the movie. I say, " No honey it's not. It's probably Dad. Keep watching. " Luckily, it's a race scene, so he forgets all about the door. I get up and race to the door myself knowing full well it will be her. (I've got to change that lock.) She hands me the mail that was in my mail box, looks at the baby and gets all bleary eyed and starts to say, " I need to speak with you, " pathetic look on her face and all, to which I sternly whisper, " Out! " while pointing to the door. I had just the day before explained to her that I would not discuss anything with her until we got into therapy and if I got into any discussion with her other than the " Out " that I gave her, the kids would hear me and come running to see their grandmother crying and then all heck would have broken loose and the manipulation would have begun. Thankfully, she turned around and whispered back through the tears that she needed to speak with me but that it couldn't be over the phone and that it had to be in person. I agreed because I just wanted her to go before the kids heard the commotion and told her that I'd meet her later in the week. Five minutes after she left, she called again and said, " I understand if you don't want to meet me, so if you don't want to just let me know, but I'm in more trouble than I have ever been in and I need your advice. I just feel like I want to die. " So basically I said fine, I'll meet you in such and such a parking lot and I'll come into your car. (I figured if she came into my car, I wouldn't be able to get her out. If I was in her car, I would be able to leave when I wanted to.) She began with, " Since I left your house last month, my blood pressure has been elevated, (with tears gushing.) She went on about how she got a certified letter from an attorney and she suspected she knew what it was about and because of the situation, she could be in a lot of trouble, yada, yada, yada. Granted, she is not in the most ideal situation, but it can certainly be handled by a rational person. She asked me if I knew anyone who could help her and I told her she should ask one of her many " friends " she says she has. She said she would never share any of her personal information with her friends to which I replied, " this is what I was talking about when I said these are not real friendships that you have because you don't allow anyone to get close to you, and that's why you're able to maintain these relationships, but not the relationships with people with whom you are close with. " She heard it and knows it's true, but I can practically see her thought process through her expressions and how she's incapable of doing anything about it. I've never been able to see so clearly before until I joined this group. It's amazing. I feel like I'm finally seeing the situation clearly from above. It's like I'm looking down on it and I can call a play by play before it happens. Because of this, I'm not getting upset anymore. I know she can't help it. Through the information I've been able to get on the internet regarding BPD, I've learned that brain research shows that people with BPD process information much differently than you or I would. This makes it easier for me to cope because going NC is not an option for me. I am an only child and my mother has no one because it's been 25 years since my father died and she never remarried. I am willing to help her through therapy because I feel strong enough to do it. I feel this way now because I have so much information on her illness as a result of all the research I've been doing and the posts I've read here. My real dilemma is this... Although I'm willing to help my mom through the therapy, I don't want to expose my children to her theatrics any longer. My kids have been much calmer over the past month because I am less stressed, and they are not around my mom's frantic behavior either. What do I tell my children about their grandmother , why she hasn't been around, and why they won't be able to see her for a while? My daughter is six and pretty savvy, and I think could understand the situation, but I don't want her to grow up faster than she has to. My son who is four, idealizes her and misses her a lot. He certainly wouldn't understand. Both kids have been asking for her a lot lately. I don't know how long I can stall for. What do I tell them? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 7, 2007 Report Share Posted October 7, 2007 Well first of all let me start by giving you a big pat on the back for getting this far. You make it sound like it's no big deal...getting to where you are (recognizing the illness portion of it) and making the decisions you have both for yourself and your children. Everyone here at OZ knows how much it takes to get to the point that you are in now. Some of us still struggle and can only dream of having the ability to tell the BPD in our life to get therapy or get out for good. It took me an entire year just to come to grips that I HAD to do something and that it wouldn't just go away. It does make it easier when you can recognize the behavior for what it is, and begin to read their actions like a play book. For the most part they are completely predictable and knowing it is the illness and not US that has made them like this is extremely comforting. Knowing you aren't alone...that is absolutely priceless. I want you to know that the " ok, now what " part...well you are still in very good company there. From time to time I end back there and I'd like to say it gets easier...it doesn't. But it does seem to happen a little less frequently, so that is a plus. I have kids too and that was always the hardest part for me. I just didn't know how I was going to tell them that all of a sudden now we were not accepting mom-mom's calls and we would not be seeing her for holidays. I saw what she was doing at the birthday parties, but I just didn't have the heart to point out that it wasn't so nice to get that $100 in a birthday card in March...from the birthday party that she skipped...2 YEARS ago! (and her birthday was in August!) I couldn't bring myself to point out that this fabulous $50 gift card for American Eagle was a present that she had " re-gifted " ...AFTER she used $48 of it. I just handed over the card and a fifty dollar bill and bit a hole in my tongue. In a way, I see now that I drug my feet doing anything about it and used " I don't have the heart to take her away from her grand-children " as an excuse. (I'm not saying that you are doing that...just pointing out that I did it.) I see now that for ME it was an excuse....but hindsight is always 20/20. So here is what I did with my kids and maybe it will help you...at least I hope it will. I sat my kids down and mostly just asked them questions about how they felt after being with mom-mom...how certain " scenarios " make them feel. It was amazing. After picking their brains for just a little over an hour, I had even MORE reasons to cut ties with her. The entire time I was worried about how they would react to it...come to find out they really didn't want anything to do with her...they felt " obligated " to do the few things they did with her. When I finally sat down with my kids, I focused on communication and going over FOG and what it is. Manipulation by fear, obligation and/or guilt. We talked about why it was wrong and how it made people feel. We hung a large " no FOG " sign on their bedroom walls and on the fridge. I just focused on what it was and why it was not acceptable behavior. They even caught me doing it once or twice. (Ok...well I guess if you aren't going to put away your shoes like I asked you to, then later when you want something from me I don't have to do it either....yep...they busted me hard.) It worked out great for me because we didn't get " personal " over who does it the most....we just worked out exercises on how to react to it, and how to keep from doing it ourselves. (Bringing in the " golden rule " here) I didn't have to say a word...my youngest daughter caught my father-in-law and told him herself " you are trying to manipulate me into doing what you want by making me feel guilty. I do not respond to guilt. When you are ready to speak to me in a more appropriate manner then I will talk to you. " The rest just worked itself out. It couldn't have ended better...because instead of it being a battle between us, it ended up being a life lesson for my children that they can use for the rest of their lives. Get as much information from your kids that you can and do alot of listening. You will be able to guide them into making good decisions for themselves. The one thing I have learned as an educator is to NEVER underestimate a child no matter what the age. Especially with social situations. They usually have a better handle on what is going on than we do. I'm sure your children know that you love them and that you would never put them in harms way. Just continue loving them and being a great mom...just don't forget to give yourself credit too...you deserve it. razled2 wrote: Well, the saga continues. For those of you who haven't read my past posts, I hadn't seen my mother for a month. She finally called. I told her the only chance she had of seeing my children was if she got into therapy. She went paranoid on me, told me I was being brainwashed by my husband and his family. That's when I told her I would not get into it with her and I hung up. She then called back the next morning and said, " You know...maybe it would be best for us both to get into family therapy. " Her tone so clearly revealed that she felt I needed therapy, so she was going to support me. Hah! Sorry...I'll continue. I told her I would not have any more contact with her until we started the therapy. Next day she calls. I don't answer. She hangs up, no message. Thirty seconds later, my front door is opening. My kids are in a trance watching " Cars. " My four year old yells, " It's grandma! " and starts to get up to go to the door while still half watching the movie. I say, " No honey it's not. It's probably Dad. Keep watching. " Luckily, it's a race scene, so he forgets all about the door. I get up and race to the door myself knowing full well it will be her. (I've got to change that lock.) She hands me the mail that was in my mail box, looks at the baby and gets all bleary eyed and starts to say, " I need to speak with you, " pathetic look on her face and all, to which I sternly whisper, " Out! " while pointing to the door. I had just the day before explained to her that I would not discuss anything with her until we got into therapy and if I got into any discussion with her other than the " Out " that I gave her, the kids would hear me and come running to see their grandmother crying and then all heck would have broken loose and the manipulation would have begun. Thankfully, she turned around and whispered back through the tears that she needed to speak with me but that it couldn't be over the phone and that it had to be in person. I agreed because I just wanted her to go before the kids heard the commotion and told her that I'd meet her later in the week. Five minutes after she left, she called again and said, " I understand if you don't want to meet me, so if you don't want to just let me know, but I'm in more trouble than I have ever been in and I need your advice. I just feel like I want to die. " So basically I said fine, I'll meet you in such and such a parking lot and I'll come into your car. (I figured if she came into my car, I wouldn't be able to get her out. If I was in her car, I would be able to leave when I wanted to.) She began with, " Since I left your house last month, my blood pressure has been elevated, (with tears gushing.) She went on about how she got a certified letter from an attorney and she suspected she knew what it was about and because of the situation, she could be in a lot of trouble, yada, yada, yada. Granted, she is not in the most ideal situation, but it can certainly be handled by a rational person. She asked me if I knew anyone who could help her and I told her she should ask one of her many " friends " she says she has. She said she would never share any of her personal information with her friends to which I replied, " this is what I was talking about when I said these are not real friendships that you have because you don't allow anyone to get close to you, and that's why you're able to maintain these relationships, but not the relationships with people with whom you are close with. " She heard it and knows it's true, but I can practically see her thought process through her expressions and how she's incapable of doing anything about it. I've never been able to see so clearly before until I joined this group. It's amazing. I feel like I'm finally seeing the situation clearly from above. It's like I'm looking down on it and I can call a play by play before it happens. Because of this, I'm not getting upset anymore. I know she can't help it. Through the information I've been able to get on the internet regarding BPD, I've learned that brain research shows that people with BPD process information much differently than you or I would. This makes it easier for me to cope because going NC is not an option for me. I am an only child and my mother has no one because it's been 25 years since my father died and she never remarried. I am willing to help her through therapy because I feel strong enough to do it. I feel this way now because I have so much information on her illness as a result of all the research I've been doing and the posts I've read here. My real dilemma is this... Although I'm willing to help my mom through the therapy, I don't want to expose my children to her theatrics any longer. My kids have been much calmer over the past month because I am less stressed, and they are not around my mom's frantic behavior either. What do I tell my children about their grandmother , why she hasn't been around, and why they won't be able to see her for a while? My daughter is six and pretty savvy, and I think could understand the situation, but I don't want her to grow up faster than she has to. My son who is four, idealizes her and misses her a lot. He certainly wouldn't understand. Both kids have been asking for her a lot lately. I don't know how long I can stall for. What do I tell them? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Kisses and Nibbles, Bunny --------------------------------- Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Glad to know there are others out there like me. Unfortunately, there is no one else who can support my mom since I'm an only child and she's a widow. She has limited contact with her brother and he has a heart condition anyway, so that wouldn't be a good situation. I've decided that I will take care of the situation for her because she really is not able to. She does not have to be present for me to do this. I will just deal with the attorney, clear up any misunderstandings, and hopefully this minor situation will " go away. " I know she'll be paranoid about what I've done, how I've done it and who I've told about it, but she'll just have to deal. I won't allow her to vent her paranoia to me. I will not " indulge " her as you so aptly put it. Thanks. ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 Wow, i felt like i was reading a note to myself! I suspect she created the drama she is in and if its something a rational person could handle then she could handle it too. She is roping you in. My mom would have done and said the same thing to which i would have replied the same way- well you not telling your friends makes them not friends right? No ONE knows my nada, probably not even me. I may have gotten manipulated into seeing her too, but i am getting better at that. I am limited contact as you seem to be and i have decided that if she calls me in a panic i will not indulge at all. I will go NC until the drama subsides whether its a few days or weeks and then call her, and guess what, by then, she has figured it out... shocking Anyway, i am steering clear of my moms drama even though she insists all she needs is a relationship with me and then all her other drama like financial and such will disappear. I dont buy it. Could you tell a close friend or family member of your mom's what's going on so that they can support her? That's what i did. My mom has hidden her BPD pretty well from her sisters until this latest pretend suicide attempt to which i let it all out and told them what mom was to me and that i would no longer be there to pick up the pieces, if they wanted to thats their perogative. And they did... > > Well, the saga continues. For those of you who haven't read my past > posts, I hadn't seen my mother for a month. She finally called. I > told her the only chance she had of seeing my children was if she got > into therapy. She went paranoid on me, told me I was being > brainwashed by my husband and his family. That's when I told her I > would not get into it with her and I hung up. She then called > back the next morning and said, " You know...maybe it would be best > for us both to get into family therapy. " Her tone so clearly > revealed that she felt I needed therapy, so she was going to support > me. Hah! Sorry...I'll continue. I told her I would not have any > more contact with her until we started the therapy. > > Next day she calls. I don't answer. She hangs up, no message. > Thirty seconds later, my front door is opening. My kids are in a > trance watching " Cars. " My four year old yells, " It's grandma! " and > starts to get up to go to the door while still half watching the > movie. I say, " No honey it's not. It's probably Dad. Keep > watching. " Luckily, it's a race scene, so he forgets all about the > door. I get up and race to the door myself knowing full well it will > be her. (I've got to change that lock.) > > She hands me the mail that was in my mail box, looks at the baby and > gets all bleary eyed and starts to say, " I need to speak with you, " > pathetic look on her face and all, to which I sternly whisper, " Out! " > while pointing to the door. I had just the day before explained to > her that I would not discuss anything with her until we got into > therapy and if I got into any discussion with her other than > the " Out " that I gave her, the kids would hear me and come running to > see their grandmother crying and then all heck would have broken > loose and the manipulation would have begun. Thankfully, she turned > around and whispered back through the tears that she needed to speak > with me but that it couldn't be over the phone and that it had to be > in person. I agreed because I just wanted her to go before the kids > heard the commotion and told her that I'd meet her later in the > week. > > Five minutes after she left, she called again and said, " I understand > if you don't want to meet me, so if you don't want to just let me > know, but I'm in more trouble than I have ever been in and I need > your advice. I just feel like I want to die. " So basically I said > fine, I'll meet you in such and such a parking lot and I'll come into > your car. (I figured if she came into my car, I wouldn't be able to > get her out. If I was in her car, I would be able to leave when I > wanted to.) She began with, " Since I left your house last month, my > blood pressure has been elevated, (with tears gushing.) She went on > about how she got a certified letter from an attorney and she > suspected she knew what it was about and because of > the situation, she could be in a lot of trouble, yada, yada, yada. > > Granted, she is not in the most ideal situation, but it can certainly > be handled by a rational person. She asked me if I knew anyone who > could help her and I told her she should ask one of her > many " friends " she says she has. She said she would never share any > of her personal information with her friends to which I > replied, " this is what I was talking about when I said these are not > real friendships that you have because you don't allow anyone to get > close to you, and that's why you're able to maintain these > relationships, but not the relationships with people with whom you > are close with. " She heard it and knows it's true, but I can > practically see her thought process through her expressions and how > she's incapable of doing anything about it. > > I've never been able to see so clearly before until I joined this > group. It's amazing. I feel like I'm finally seeing the situation > clearly from above. It's like I'm looking down on it and I can call > a play by play before it happens. Because of this, I'm not getting > upset anymore. I know she can't help it. Through the information > I've been able to get on the internet regarding BPD, I've learned > that brain research shows that people with BPD process information > much differently than you or I would. This makes it easier for me to > cope because going NC is not an option for me. I am an only child > and my mother has no one because it's been 25 years since my father > died and she never remarried. I am willing to help her through > therapy because I feel strong enough to do it. I feel this way now > because I have so much information on her illness as a result of all > the research I've been doing and the posts I've read here. > > My real dilemma is this... Although I'm willing to help my mom > through the therapy, I don't want to expose my children to her > theatrics any longer. My kids have been much calmer over the past > month because I am less stressed, and they are not around my mom's > frantic behavior either. What do I tell my children about their > grandmother , why she hasn't been around, and why they won't be able > to see her for a while? > > My daughter is six and pretty savvy, and I think could understand the > situation, but I don't want her to grow up faster than she has to. My > son who is four, idealizes her and misses her a lot. He certainly > wouldn't understand. Both kids have been asking for her a lot > lately. I don't know how long I can stall for. What do I tell them? > > Any advice would be greatly appreciated. > > Thanks. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 and by the way, i have the same condition with my mom. There will be no relationship unless she is in therapy and making better decisions. She has now been in therapy for over a month and is begging me to start talking to her again, unfortunately i don't see an improvement yet. I am not vague about it either. I told her I want her to remain in therapy, i want her to start seeing how she is boundary-less and I will see that when she starts respecting the boundaries i am putting on her, and i also want her to stay focussed on her job and excercising. When i see that our relationship may naturally rebuild, but LET ME EMPHASIZE that it will always be limited. I will not go to her for advice or let her in on my life too much. I will not get her out of jams or indulge her " depression " or her impulsivity. Sometimes, i too have to take control of a situation as you seem to have to do now. I think you already know this, but do it swiftly and with enough distance and dont answer too many of her questions. Bravo to you, hang in there! > > Glad to know there are others out there like me. Unfortunately, there is no > one else who can support my mom since I'm an only child and she's a widow. > She has limited contact with her brother and he has a heart condition anyway, so > that wouldn't be a good situation. I've decided that I will take care of the > situation for her because she really is not able to. She does not have to be > present for me to do this. I will just deal with the attorney, clear up any > misunderstandings, and hopefully this minor situation will " go away. " I know > she'll be paranoid about what I've done, how I've done it and who I've told > about it, but she'll just have to deal. I won't allow her to vent her paranoia > to me. I will not " indulge " her as you so aptly put it. > > Thanks. > > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 8, 2007 Report Share Posted October 8, 2007 I'm not sure I have great advice. Your post is so important. I think the children have to come first. If they are having trouble, because you are having trouble -- you and they come first. Grandma has no right to be involved and make things more difficult. My nada and I no longer speak. And, I told her she could have no contact with her grandchildren. My advice is: as much as possible, tell the kids the truth. They should not be around grandma, because it is not healthy for them. And, they may see grandma under supervision, so they know her (only if that is okay with you), but that's it. Basically, I support whatever you do. They are your children. And, believe me, they will understand when they are older that you loved them so much that you did not want to see them hurt and in pain. B razled2 wrote: Well, the saga continues. For those of you who haven't read my past posts, I hadn't seen my mother for a month. She finally called. I told her the only chance she had of seeing my children was if she got into therapy. She went paranoid on me, told me I was being brainwashed by my husband and his family. That's when I told her I would not get into it with her and I hung up. She then called back the next morning and said, " You know...maybe it would be best for us both to get into family therapy. " Her tone so clearly revealed that she felt I needed therapy, so she was going to support me. Hah! Sorry...I'll continue. I told her I would not have any more contact with her until we started the therapy. Next day she calls. I don't answer. She hangs up, no message. Thirty seconds later, my front door is opening. My kids are in a trance watching " Cars. " My four year old yells, " It's grandma! " and starts to get up to go to the door while still half watching the movie. I say, " No honey it's not. It's probably Dad. Keep watching. " Luckily, it's a race scene, so he forgets all about the door. I get up and race to the door myself knowing full well it will be her. (I've got to change that lock.) She hands me the mail that was in my mail box, looks at the baby and gets all bleary eyed and starts to say, " I need to speak with you, " pathetic look on her face and all, to which I sternly whisper, " Out! " while pointing to the door. I had just the day before explained to her that I would not discuss anything with her until we got into therapy and if I got into any discussion with her other than the " Out " that I gave her, the kids would hear me and come running to see their grandmother crying and then all heck would have broken loose and the manipulation would have begun. Thankfully, she turned around and whispered back through the tears that she needed to speak with me but that it couldn't be over the phone and that it had to be in person. I agreed because I just wanted her to go before the kids heard the commotion and told her that I'd meet her later in the week. Five minutes after she left, she called again and said, " I understand if you don't want to meet me, so if you don't want to just let me know, but I'm in more trouble than I have ever been in and I need your advice. I just feel like I want to die. " So basically I said fine, I'll meet you in such and such a parking lot and I'll come into your car. (I figured if she came into my car, I wouldn't be able to get her out. If I was in her car, I would be able to leave when I wanted to.) She began with, " Since I left your house last month, my blood pressure has been elevated, (with tears gushing.) She went on about how she got a certified letter from an attorney and she suspected she knew what it was about and because of the situation, she could be in a lot of trouble, yada, yada, yada. Granted, she is not in the most ideal situation, but it can certainly be handled by a rational person. She asked me if I knew anyone who could help her and I told her she should ask one of her many " friends " she says she has. She said she would never share any of her personal information with her friends to which I replied, " this is what I was talking about when I said these are not real friendships that you have because you don't allow anyone to get close to you, and that's why you're able to maintain these relationships, but not the relationships with people with whom you are close with. " She heard it and knows it's true, but I can practically see her thought process through her expressions and how she's incapable of doing anything about it. I've never been able to see so clearly before until I joined this group. It's amazing. I feel like I'm finally seeing the situation clearly from above. It's like I'm looking down on it and I can call a play by play before it happens. Because of this, I'm not getting upset anymore. I know she can't help it. Through the information I've been able to get on the internet regarding BPD, I've learned that brain research shows that people with BPD process information much differently than you or I would. This makes it easier for me to cope because going NC is not an option for me. I am an only child and my mother has no one because it's been 25 years since my father died and she never remarried. I am willing to help her through therapy because I feel strong enough to do it. I feel this way now because I have so much information on her illness as a result of all the research I've been doing and the posts I've read here. My real dilemma is this... Although I'm willing to help my mom through the therapy, I don't want to expose my children to her theatrics any longer. My kids have been much calmer over the past month because I am less stressed, and they are not around my mom's frantic behavior either. What do I tell my children about their grandmother , why she hasn't been around, and why they won't be able to see her for a while? My daughter is six and pretty savvy, and I think could understand the situation, but I don't want her to grow up faster than she has to. My son who is four, idealizes her and misses her a lot. He certainly wouldn't understand. Both kids have been asking for her a lot lately. I don't know how long I can stall for. What do I tell them? Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. --------------------------------- Yahoo! oneSearch: Finally, mobile search that gives answers, not web links. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 9, 2007 Report Share Posted October 9, 2007 I think your plan is very good. I am glad that you recognize that you can help your nada, but at the same time you don't have to interact with her directly, you don't have to do what she wants. You are doing what she needs. sylvia > > Glad to know there are others out there like me. Unfortunately, there is no > one else who can support my mom since I'm an only child and she's a widow. > She has limited contact with her brother and he has a heart condition anyway, so > that wouldn't be a good situation. I've decided that I will take care of the > situation for her because she really is not able to. She does not have to be > present for me to do this. I will just deal with the attorney, clear up any > misunderstandings, and hopefully this minor situation will " go away. " I know > she'll be paranoid about what I've done, how I've done it and who I've told > about it, but she'll just have to deal. I won't allow her to vent her paranoia > to me. I will not " indulge " her as you so aptly put it. > > Thanks. > > > > > > ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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