Re: thoughts about receptive language

[Guest guest]

Thea,

I think all of this is just GREAT! I think we are surprised by how much

they understand because they took so long to speak. I know that I am

constantly surprised when Kep understands something that I say off-hand.

Way to go .

Amy H

Kepler 4 ASD and Bethany 5 & 1/2 NT

" Illegitimus non carborundum "

(Lat: Don't let the bastards grind you down)

-Gen. ph Stilwell

_________________________________________________________________

Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

[Guest guest]

Absolutely Thea!!!

And I'm grateful that I have the mindset to make a big deal of it and

say 'Wow'! It's a big deal!!!

Penny :-)

[Guest guest]

--

Penny,

Thanks, too bad the school doesn't make a big deal. That will change

soon.

Thea

- In parenting_autism@y..., nospam@p... wrote:

> Absolutely Thea!!!

>

> And I'm grateful that I have the mindset to make a big deal of it

and

> say 'Wow'! It's a big deal!!!

>

> Penny :-)

[Guest guest]

Boone understands a great deal of what is said. Some days, except for his

lack of speech, it's like he's so connected.

Unfortunately there are very bad days -- like today -- when it doesn't

matter what I say or how much he understands. He doesn't respond at all.

He's very highly agitated, weepy, screamy and tantrumming. I knew he was

" off " when he got up this morning. His routine has been upset. The kids are

out of school today and Monday. I'm sure by Monday I'll be pulling my hair

out of my head.

Sissi

thoughts about receptive language

> Does anyone ever think about how amazing it is when our kids really

> begin to understand what's said to them. I mean, there have been so

> many times when amazes me by what he respond to receptively. I

> did a variation questions quiz-where I wanted to see how much he

> could answer the same question in a different way-he was able to do

> this with 20 questions-I was a little surprised he knew " what is your

> age " as opposed to the standard " how old are you " and " where do you

> reside " as opposed to the usual " where do you live " . He also can

> understand some inferential stuff- He was on the computer and at some

> point he put crayon marks on the moniter, I didnt notice when he did

> it, but, when I said " that's not funny " he immediately went to

> wipe it from the screen. He knew exactly what I was referring to

> with that statement. I really didnt expect him to do anything when I

> said it, I was going to say " clean it off " . I guess he understands

> this phrase because Im always saying to the kids " thats not funny "

> when they do something wrong.

>

> Thea

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

understands everything that we say to him he just does not have any speech

to reply to us. I wish he could answer us. I find that to be the hardest to

deal with.

Lori

thoughts about receptive language

> Does anyone ever think about how amazing it is when our kids really

> begin to understand what's said to them. I mean, there have been so

> many times when amazes me by what he respond to receptively. I

> did a variation questions quiz-where I wanted to see how much he

> could answer the same question in a different way-he was able to do

> this with 20 questions-I was a little surprised he knew " what is your

> age " as opposed to the standard " how old are you " and " where do you

> reside " as opposed to the usual " where do you live " . He also can

> understand some inferential stuff- He was on the computer and at some

> point he put crayon marks on the moniter, I didnt notice when he did

> it, but, when I said " that's not funny " he immediately went to

> wipe it from the screen. He knew exactly what I was referring to

> with that statement. I really didnt expect him to do anything when I

> said it, I was going to say " clean it off " . I guess he understands

> this phrase because Im always saying to the kids " thats not funny "

> when they do something wrong.

>

> Thea

>

>

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

Lori, how old is ?

It is excellent that he has good receptive language. That is a very

positive sign that he can develop speech.

I just saw a video with Temple Grandin, & she said if a child has receptive

language by...I think it was age 7...even if the child isn't speaking by

then, they can still learn. I think she said some kids don't talk till

they're 10 or even older. So...

-Sara.

wife to Matt

SAHM to nurslings

Mikey, 9/14/99, Autism, and

Gabe, born at home 5/17/01, GERD

http://home.earthlink.net/~thebyks

[Guest guest]

I read somewhere that alot of autistic kids don't talk because they don't

understand the meaning of words (or that words have meaning). I was also told

that maybe that is why doesn't speak. What I don't understand is that

if that is true, why does she understand what I am saying to her? Makes no

sense to me.

Tracey

[Guest guest]

is 9. He has been listening to everything that we say since he was around

7. He understand everything.

Lori

RE: thoughts about receptive language

Lori, how old is ?

It is excellent that he has good receptive language. That is a very

positive sign that he can develop speech.

I just saw a video with Temple Grandin, & she said if a child has receptive

language by...I think it was age 7...even if the child isn't speaking by

then, they can still learn. I think she said some kids don't talk till

they're 10 or even older. So...

-Sara.

wife to Matt

SAHM to nurslings

Mikey, 9/14/99, Autism, and

Gabe, born at home 5/17/01, GERD

http://home.earthlink.net/~thebyks

[Guest guest]

Tracey,

I think it's far more complicated than that. No -- actually I don't think

that. I KNOW that. Boone does understand words. I don't know why he can't

communicate (the way we do) though.

Sissi

Re: thoughts about receptive language

> I read somewhere that alot of autistic kids don't talk because they don't

> understand the meaning of words (or that words have meaning). I was also

told

> that maybe that is why doesn't speak. What I don't understand is

that

> if that is true, why does she understand what I am saying to her? Makes no

> sense to me.

>

> Tracey

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

> I read somewhere that alot of autistic kids don't talk because they don't

> understand the meaning of words (or that words have meaning). I

> was also told

> that maybe that is why doesn't speak. What I don't

> understand is that

> if that is true, why does she understand what I am saying to her?

> Makes no

> sense to me.

Because receptive language -- understanding what is said to you -- and

expressive language -- telling other people things -- use two different

parts of the brain. They develop seperately, and receptive language

develops first.

Have you ever learned a foreign language? It is MUCH easier to read and

hear the language, and translate it in your mind, than it is to put your own

sentence together.

There can also be motor planning and fine motor skill issues. Think about

all the motions all the pieces of your mouth and throat have to go through

in order to get a single word out. Your lips and teeth and tongue all have

to work together, you have to expell enough air with the right amount of

pressure to get sound, you have to use the right amount of pressure with

your tongue and your lips - " b " vs " m " vs " p " - for some kids this just

doesn't come naturally. They have to learn it and be taught it. Just as

kids with CP have to be taught how to walk, because their muscles work

differently.

Hoping she makes sense,

-Sara.

wife to Matt

SAHM to nurslings

Mikey, 9/14/99, Autism, and

Gabe, born at home 5/17/01, GERD

http://home.earthlink.net/~thebyks

[Guest guest]

Sara,

Thats a good explaination. I think its easier to decode many things

that are given to you. I do these homemade pictures cards (family

members doing different things), and can put the first sentence

together-he can say, for example, " Its me eating " but producing the

next sentence " Im eating ______ " or whatever comment would be

appropriate is a struggle. Its producing the next thought that links

to it. Sometimes what he does is says it in different ways like " Its

me eating " pause " 's eating " pause " I am eating " which isnt the

target (to get varying comments about the picture), but changing the

phrasing is also good, because he learns to use the language

creatively. On a good day, he may say " It's daddy eating

rice " " he's hungary " " its a fork " . Its not fluent and it sounds

robotic, and not particularly sophisticated, but, its a start until

his brain can organize his thoughts. Just like a person learning a

foreign language's conversation will be very simple until theyve

practiced a lot. The funny thing is, he even uses words in the non

literal sense, when he gets mad, he will say " go mommy, take a train "

he knows that Im not going to take a train, so its his figure of

speech. I'd say this takes an understanding of the language. I also

liked reading the posts about the 8, 9, and 10 years old who really

started to talk more, it just shows about brain maturity.

Thea

> > I read somewhere that alot of autistic kids don't talk because

they don't

> > understand the meaning of words (or that words have meaning). I

> > was also told

> > that maybe that is why doesn't speak. What I don't

> > understand is that

> > if that is true, why does she understand what I am saying to her?

> > Makes no

> > sense to me.

>

> Because receptive language -- understanding what is said to you --

and

> expressive language -- telling other people things -- use two

different

> parts of the brain. They develop seperately, and receptive language

> develops first.

>

> Have you ever learned a foreign language? It is MUCH easier to

read and

> hear the language, and translate it in your mind, than it is to put

your own

> sentence together.

>

> There can also be motor planning and fine motor skill issues.

Think about

> all the motions all the pieces of your mouth and throat have to go

through

> in order to get a single word out. Your lips and teeth and tongue

all have

> to work together, you have to expell enough air with the right

amount of

> pressure to get sound, you have to use the right amount of pressure

with

> your tongue and your lips - " b " vs " m " vs " p " - for some kids this

just

> doesn't come naturally. They have to learn it and be taught it.

Just as

> kids with CP have to be taught how to walk, because their muscles

work

> differently.

>

> Hoping she makes sense,

>

> -Sara.

> wife to Matt

> SAHM to nurslings

> Mikey, 9/14/99, Autism, and

> Gabe, born at home 5/17/01, GERD

> http://home.earthlink.net/~thebyks

[Guest guest]

Alec doesn't really understand words. You can tell. For Alec he

doesn't understand and he doesn't talk. But then that is easy

huh?...LOL

Jacquie H

> Tracey,

> I think it's far more complicated than that. No -- actually I don't

think

> that. I KNOW that. Boone does understand words. I don't know why he

can't

> communicate (the way we do) though.

> Sissi

>

> Re: thoughts about receptive language

>

>

> > I read somewhere that alot of autistic kids don't talk because

they don't

> > understand the meaning of words (or that words have meaning). I

was also

> told

> > that maybe that is why doesn't speak. What I don't

understand is

> that

> > if that is true, why does she understand what I am saying to her?

Makes no

> > sense to me.

> >

> > Tracey

> >

> >

> >

[Guest guest]

> Alec doesn't really understand words. You can tell. For Alec he

> doesn't understand and he doesn't talk. But then that is easy

> huh?...LOL

used to not understand words. He had no concept that language

had any purpose at all and paid no more attention to words than he

did to the wind or the birds. For learning to speak was like

teaching him a completely foreign lauguage using a method he had no

skills to use. He started in speech with learning how to just make

the specific speech sounds we use in english. Basic basic basic

steps, each one building on another. Eventually it paid off.

[Guest guest]

Sydney: I think she understands a decent amount, but I won't say she

understands words. She understands the tone I use, the look I express, the

movement of my hands, and the general feel of things. She truly understands

SOME words, but very few... and most everything else, I feel she

" understands " because it's been said enough. Says a some things that sound

like the right word, in the right context... like, " buh-bye " , or

" hiiiiiii " .... or the alphabet. But doesn't know any REAL words... like

label words.

Madison: Nope. The signal is not received LOL. Picture plane flying

wayyyyyyyyy over head. Imagine fish in the ocean trying to talk to a

sparrow in the sky. Nope. Nada. She understands THINGS and CONCEPTS,

like if she ups the volume, mommy will come STORMING into the room YELLING

and hurting her ears. So she ups the volume, looks to the entry, and waits

to hear my chair move, and starts SCREAMING when she hears me coming (even

though I haven't made a vocal sound yet).

She knows that we no longer have a kitchen and that some of the kitchen

stuff, like her food bowls and cups, are in the bathroom. She figured it

out immediately - - no kitchen (blocked off), all kitchen stuff in bathroom

now, and from then on, if she's hungry - - - she comes and gets the big fat

woman and takes her to the bathroom, all happy, saying " nemee, nemee, nemee,

nemmeeeeee " and so forth.

Understand, I think not. I wish, but I don't think so.

Grace

Re: thoughts about receptive language

> >

> >

> > > I read somewhere that alot of autistic kids don't talk because

> they don't

> > > understand the meaning of words (or that words have meaning). I

> was also

> > told

> > > that maybe that is why doesn't speak. What I don't

> understand is

> > that

> > > if that is true, why does she understand what I am saying to her?

> Makes no

> > > sense to me.

> > >

> > > Tracey

> > >

> > >

> > >

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/14/01 10:40:23 PM Pacific Daylight Time,

Taybrynn@... writes:

<< Should I be waiting to start

her in private therapy when she starts verbalizing? Is this going to be

waste

of time? ('s time that is). >>

NO!

I don't think you should wait at all. I think as soon as you get a feel

something is not working as expected, you should start speech therapy. There

is a ton of games and such that can be played (and you can learn if you are

there observing) to help.

kandie

Kandie and (8 years)

* 's website: <A

HREF= " http://kidsactivities.homestead.com/spage.html " >spage</A>

*

[Guest guest]

Tracey:

Putter was in private speech before he was verbal. Just get someone who

knows autism.

I can't remember if I have suggested that you look into apraxia before, but

that is one of the things that Sara is talking about (and I am too lazy to

see if Sara actually used the word " apraxia " or not). Putter's very late

speech was at least partially due to apraxia.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> starts

> private speech this week.

Good!

> Did anyone on the lists children start speech

> before they could talk?

I'm sure lots have. They may use sign language or pictures to help her get

started, or they may just seem like they're playing with her, but they're

working on tiny steps.

>I just don't think the therapist understands that

> when I say she has NO words, I mean no words.

Oh I know that feeling. Just make it clear when you get there -- " She

doesn't even say mama or dada " has usually gotten it across for me.

>Should I be waiting

> to start

> her in private therapy when she starts verbalizing? Is this going

> to be waste

> of time? ('s time that is).

NO!!! To both! MANY MANY kids with autism would never speak at all without

therapy. You DEFINITELY want her in therapy. They will assess what skills

she does have, and work with her from there. Mikey's expressive language is

at the 8 month level but he's improved to there from the 4 month level in

less than 4 months. You may not know all the distinctions, but the ST will,

and will be able to lead her along the path of development.

Good luck!!!

-Sara.

[Guest guest]

Tracey,

I know kids who were started in speech before they had any words. Both were

eligible through the school district and one is going to private speech.

They call it pre-speech and it's supposed to help them get ready for

talking. Mouth exercises, sounds, etc.

Sue

Re: thoughts about receptive language

> In a message dated 10/14/2001 11:59:37 AM Central Daylight Time,

> thebyks@... writes:

>

>

> > There can also be motor planning and fine motor skill issues. Think

about

> > all the motions all the pieces of your mouth and throat have to go

through

> > in order to get a single word out. Your lips and teeth and tongue all

have

> > to work together, you have to expell enough air with the right amount of

> > pressure to get sound, you have to use the right amount of pressure with

> > your tongue and your lips - " b " vs " m " vs " p " - for some kids this just

> > doesn't come naturally. They have to learn it and be taught it. Just

as

> > kids with CP have to be taught how to walk, because their muscles work

> > differently

>

> Sara,

> This does make sense. I guess I was just not thinking that way.

starts

> private speech this week. Did anyone on the lists children start speech

> before they could talk? I just don't think the therapist understands that

> when I say she has NO words, I mean no words. Should I be waiting to start

> her in private therapy when she starts verbalizing? Is this going to be

waste

> of time? ('s time that is).

>

> Tracey

>

>

>

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/15/2001 8:41:26 AM Central Daylight Time,

bunnytiner@... writes:

> I can't remember if I have suggested that you look into apraxia before, but

> that is one of the things that Sara is talking about (and I am too lazy to

> see if Sara actually used the word " apraxia " or not). Putter's very late

> speech was at least partially due to apraxia.

>

>

Salli,

I did, kind of, look into apraxia but someone told me that it wouldn't apply

to her because children with apraxia have other issues that she does not.

Such as not being able to swallow foods or drink through a straw. I am going

to look into it more just in case. It does seem that she trys hard to form

sounds into words but it is almost like she cant figure out how to get the

words out right. Would that be apraxia?

Tracey

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 10/16/2001 12:47:46 AM Central Daylight Time,

Taybrynn@... writes:

> I did, kind of, look into apraxia but someone told me that it wouldn't apply

> to her because children with apraxia have other issues that she does not.

> Such as not being able to swallow foods or drink through a straw

You know, now that I think about it, she did have a hard time learning to eat

big people foods. She had to go to the emergency room after choking on a

piece of banana long after she should have been old enough. She still eats

the fruit baby foods because she won't eat real fruit. How come I didn't

think of that before? hhhhmmm oh jeez, now I'm responding to myself. I think

I'd better go to bed.

Tracey

[Guest guest]

> I did, kind of, look into apraxia but someone told me that it wouldn't

apply

> to her because children with apraxia have other issues that she does not.

> Such as not being able to swallow foods or drink through a straw. I am

going

> to look into it more just in case. It does seem that she trys hard to form

> sounds into words but it is almost like she cant figure out how to get the

> words out right. Would that be apraxia?

Putter could not drink through a straw (he can now) and he did have some

difficulties swallowing, very early on, but by the time he could talk the

swallowing problems were long gone. They really just manifested themselves

as a very late start to solids (about one year) and a tendency to gag

easily.

But I would not rule out apraxia just because she may not have those other

issues. She may, in fact, but they may be more subtle than you would think,

just as Putter's motor planning issues in general are rather subtle. Has an

OT evaluated on these kinds of issues?

And, yes, being unable to figure out how to get the words out right sounds

apraxic; it at least sounds as if there are motor planning issues involved.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> You know, now that I think about it, she did have a hard time learning to

eat

> big people foods. She had to go to the emergency room after choking on a

> piece of banana long after she should have been old enough. She still eats

> the fruit baby foods because she won't eat real fruit. How come I didn't

> think of that before? hhhhmmm oh jeez, now I'm responding to myself. I

think

> I'd better go to bed.

Tracey:

YES.

Don't worry about responding to yourself; we all do it. sounds

apraxic to me. Find a speech therapist who has worked with apraxia.

Apraxia can definitely be overcome.

Salli

[Guest guest]

> Putter could not drink through a straw (he can now) and he did have some

> difficulties swallowing, very early on, but by the time he could talk the

> swallowing problems were long gone. They really just manifested

themselves

> as a very late start to solids (about one year) and a tendency to gag

> easily.

> And, yes, being unable to figure out how to get the words out right sounds

> apraxic; it at least sounds as if there are motor planning issues

involved.

Salli - does this make my children fall under apraxia too?

We have major gagging reflexes, even to this day if I give them the wrong

food, and neither can use a straw. Syd wants to talk badly, but can't get

it out. While Madison doesn't show the same desire to speak words, she

shows major interest in me when I move my lips to speak - - - but no effort

comes from it. Syd tries... but the right sounds don't come out, usually.

Once in awhile, she gets it. But not always..... more like opening her

mouth, closing again... open, close.

I read up on apraxia awhile back, but for whatever reason, I ruled it out

now to think of it. Can't remember the reason though.

Grace

[Guest guest]

>

> Salli - does this make my children fall under apraxia too?

> We have major gagging reflexes, even to this day if I give them the wrong

> food, and neither can use a straw. Syd wants to talk badly, but can't get

> it out. While Madison doesn't show the same desire to speak words, she

> shows major interest in me when I move my lips to speak - - - but no

effort

> comes from it. Syd tries... but the right sounds don't come out, usually.

> Once in awhile, she gets it. But not always..... more like opening her

> mouth, closing again... open, close.

>

> I read up on apraxia awhile back, but for whatever reason, I ruled it out

> now to think of it. Can't remember the reason though.

Grace:

I would not be at all surprised to learn that your kids have apraxia. I

think autistic kids with normal intelligence and no apraxia should be at

least echolalic by two or three. Apraxia is one more monkey wrench in the

works and it can delay speech considerably. The good news is that the bad

old theory about a child never talking if they don't talk by five or six

(depending on whose bad old theory you go on) is totally false for apraxia.

Once apraxia is overcome, then the speech will begin unless there are still

other issues. At least that is what Putter's speech therapist told me and

she has been proven right with Putter. Perhaps this is why you hear of ten

year olds who finally start talking sometimes?

Salli

[Guest guest]

Tracey,

My son is classified as a classic, " severe " case of apraxia, and he

never had any other issues as far as gagging, swallowing, or other food

problems. So apraxia can exist without those symptoms.

Also, I would check out dysarthria, that is what they call weakness of the

muscles around the mouth (I think).

Do a web search for apraxia-kids and it will lead you to a great website

with a lot of other links. Sorry, I can't find the actual URL right now.

-BJ