Guest guest Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 So my biller says after the initial cryotherapy lesion treated(CPT 17000), lesions 2-14 CPT(17003) only get paid about $20something - total! - whether I do 2 or 14. My read on this has always been that you bill for the number of units of 17003. So if I freeze 7 AKs, the first one (17000) is paid at at higher rate ($100something), and lesions 2-7 get paid (each one) at a lower rate. Something like $25 x 6 lesions =$150 additional added to the first lesion paid. Did I dream that up? Anyone know the answer with certainty. Stew Eugene, OR How to bill medicare for an EKG Seems that every time I bill MEDICARE and EKG it comes back non payment, any ideas how to get them paid for? Thanks, from the Barrio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Your biller is wrong, the first is the set fee. the 2-14 fee is like $20 PER LESION. So you bill the 17003 at $20 or whatever, but the number of lesions is also put in the bill as you say. There is a spot on the bill for the number of lesions you do, and the total is the multiplied amount. If you go beyond 14, you need to add another code ? 17005. ________________________________________ From: [ ] On Behalf Of Mones MD [stewmones@...] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:16 PM To: Subject: Cryo billing So my biller says after the initial cryotherapy lesion treated(CPT 17000), lesions 2-14 CPT(17003) only get paid about $20something - total! - whether I do 2 or 14. My read on this has always been that you bill for the number of units of 17003. So if I freeze 7 AKs, the first one (17000) is paid at at higher rate ($100something), and lesions 2-7 get paid (each one) at a lower rate. Something like $25 x 6 lesions =$150 additional added to the first lesion paid. Did I dream that up? Anyone know the answer with certainty. Stew Eugene, OR How to bill medicare for an EKG Seems that every time I bill MEDICARE and EKG it comes back non payment, any ideas how to get them paid for? Thanks, from the Barrio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Jim is correct. This is from Family Practice Management:http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20001000/coding.htmlQ: How should CPT code 17003 be used?A: Code 17003 is for "Destruction by any method, including laser, with or without surgical curettement, all benign or premalignant lesions (e.g., actinic keratoses) other than skin tags or cutaneous vascular proliferative lesions, including local anesthesia; second through 14 lesions, each." This code should be submitted in addition to the code for the first lesion, 17000, and it should be listed repeatedly for as many lesions as were destroyed. For example, if you destroyed three lesions of the type described by the code, you would submit code 17000 for the first lesion, and 17003 twice -- once for the second lesion and once for the third. If you destroy 15 or more such lesions, you should submit code 17004 once, regardless of the number of lesions you destroy. Do not use code 17000 in conjunction with code 17004. SetoSouth Pasadena, CAYour biller is wrong, the first is the set fee. the 2-14 fee is like $20 PER LESION. So you bill the 17003 at $20 or whatever, but the number of lesions is also put in the bill as you say. There is a spot on the bill for the number of lesions you do, and the total is the multiplied amount. If you go beyond 14, you need to add another code ? 17005. ________________________________________From: [ ] On Behalf Of Mones MD [stewmones@...]Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:16 PMTo: Subject: Cryo billingSo my biller says after the initial cryotherapy lesion treated(CPT 17000), lesions 2-14 CPT(17003) only get paid about $20something - total! - whether I do 2 or 14. My read on this has always been that you bill for the number of units of 17003. So if I freeze 7 AKs, the first one (17000) is paid at at higher rate ($100something), and lesions 2-7 get paid (each one) at a lower rate. Something like $25 x 6 lesions =$150 additional added to the first lesion paid.Did I dream that up?Anyone know the answer with certainty.StewEugene, OR How to bill medicare for an EKGSeems that every time I bill MEDICARE and EKG it comes back nonpayment, any ideas how to get them paid for?Thanks, from the Barrio------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 20, 2010 Report Share Posted October 20, 2010 Note, though, that since 2007 those codes only apply to premalignant lesions. Benign are covered by 17110, which is up to 14 lesions (17111 for 15 or more). Gretchen Reis Circleville, OH Jim is correct. This is from Family Practice Management: http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20001000/coding.html Q: How should CPT code 17003 be used? A: Code 17003 is for "Destruction by any method, including laser, with or without surgical curettement, all benign or premalignant lesions (e.g., actinic keratoses) other than skin tags or cutaneous vascular proliferative lesions, including local anesthesia; second through 14 lesions, each." This code should be submitted in addition to the code for the first lesion, 17000, and it should be listed repeatedly for as many lesions as were destroyed. For example, if you destroyed three lesions of the type described by the code, you would submit code 17000 for the first lesion, and 17003 twice -- once for the second lesion and once for the third. If you destroy 15 or more such lesions, you should submit code 17004 once, regardless of the number of lesions you destroy. Do not use code 17000 in conjunction with code 17004. Seto South Pasadena, CA Your biller is wrong, the first is the set fee. the 2-14 fee is like $20 PER LESION. So you bill the 17003 at $20 or whatever, but the number of lesions is also put in the bill as you say. There is a spot on the bill for the number of lesions you do, and the total is the multiplied amount. If you go beyond 14, you need to add another code ? 17005. ________________________________________ From: [ ] On Behalf Of Mones MD [stewmones@...] Sent: Tuesday, October 19, 2010 11:16 PM To: Subject: Cryo billing So my biller says after the initial cryotherapy lesion treated(CPT 17000), lesions 2-14 CPT(17003) only get paid about $20something - total! - whether I do 2 or 14. My read on this has always been that you bill for the number of units of 17003. So if I freeze 7 AKs, the first one (17000) is paid at at higher rate ($100something), and lesions 2-7 get paid (each one) at a lower rate. Something like $25 x 6 lesions =$150 additional added to the first lesion paid. Did I dream that up? Anyone know the answer with certainty. Stew Eugene, OR How to bill medicare for an EKG Seems that every time I bill MEDICARE and EKG it comes back non payment, any ideas how to get them paid for? Thanks, from the Barrio ------------------------------------ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Stew,The way you described is how we bill and get paid ( $$ for the first lesion and $ x number of lesion fro number 2 to ..).Use different codes for genital warts and get slightly higher rates.HelenTo: From: stewmones@...Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2010 22:16:47 -0700Subject: Cryo billing So my biller says after the initial cryotherapy lesion treated(CPT 17000), lesions 2-14 CPT(17003) only get paid about $20something - total! - whether I do 2 or 14. My read on this has always been that you bill for the number of units of 17003. So if I freeze 7 AKs, the first one (17000) is paid at at higher rate ($100something), and lesions 2-7 get paid (each one) at a lower rate. Something like $25 x 6 lesions =$150 additional added to the first lesion paid. Did I dream that up? Anyone know the answer with certainty. Stew Eugene, OR How to bill medicare for an EKG Seems that every time I bill MEDICARE and EKG it comes back non payment, any ideas how to get them paid for? Thanks, from the Barrio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Thank you Jim and . I often think how before the IMP list I was too busy to even notice how often the work I so busy doing wasn't even being billed or paid correctly. I often think about all the other kindred docs who are stuck in the matrix. Stew Re: Cryo billing Jim is correct. This is from Family Practice Management: http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20001000/coding.html Q: How should CPT code 17003 be used? A: Code 17003 is for " Destruction by any method, including laser, with or without surgical curettement, all benign or premalignant lesions (e.g., actinic keratoses) other than skin tags or cutaneous vascular proliferative lesions, including local anesthesia; second through 14 lesions, each. " This code should be submitted in addition to the code for the first lesion, 17000, and it should be listed repeatedly for as many lesions as were destroyed. For example, if you destroyed three lesions of the type described by the code, you would submit code 17000 for the first lesion, and 17003 twice -- once for the second lesion and once for the third. If you destroy 15 or more such lesions, you should submit code 17004 once, regardless of the number of lesions you destroy. Do not use code 17000 in conjunction with code 17004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Yep. nice to get out of the doc-in-the-box physician cubicle and see the big picture. Quite informative. Hi Stew! xoxox Pamela > > Thank you Jim and . I often think how before the IMP list I was too busy to even notice how often the work I so busy doing wasn't even being billed or paid correctly. > I often think about all the other kindred docs who are stuck in the matrix. > Stew > Re: Cryo billing > > Jim is correct. This is from Family Practice Management: > http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20001000/coding.html > > Q: How should CPT code 17003 be used? > > A: Code 17003 is for " Destruction by any method, including laser, with or without surgical curettement, all benign or premalignant lesions (e.g., actinic keratoses) other than skin tags or cutaneous vascular proliferative lesions, including local anesthesia; second through 14 lesions, each. " This code should be submitted in addition to the code for the first lesion, 17000, and it should be listed repeatedly for as many lesions as were destroyed. For example, if you destroyed three lesions of the type described by the code, you would submit code 17000 for the first lesion, and 17003 twice -- once for the second lesion and once for the third. If you destroy 15 or more such lesions, you should submit code 17004 once, regardless of the number of lesions you destroy. Do not use code 17000 in conjunction with code 17004 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Thank you Jim and . I often think how before the IMP list I was too busy to even notice how often the work I so busy doing wasn't even being billed or paid correctly. I often think about all the other kindred docs who are stuck in the matrix. Stew Re: Cryo billing Jim is correct. This is from Family Practice Management: http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20001000/coding.html Q: How should CPT code 17003 be used? A: Code 17003 is for " Destruction by any method, including laser, with or without surgical curettement, all benign or premalignant lesions (e.g., actinic keratoses) other than skin tags or cutaneous vascular proliferative lesions, including local anesthesia; second through 14 lesions, each. " This code should be submitted in addition to the code for the first lesion, 17000, and it should be listed repeatedly for as many lesions as were destroyed. For example, if you destroyed three lesions of the type described by the code, you would submit code 17000 for the first lesion, and 17003 twice -- once for the second lesion and once for the third. If you destroy 15 or more such lesions, you should submit code 17004 once, regardless of the number of lesions you destroy. Do not use code 17000 in conjunction with code 17004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Thank you Jim and . I often think how before the IMP list I was too busy to even notice how often the work I so busy doing wasn't even being billed or paid correctly. I often think about all the other kindred docs who are stuck in the matrix. Stew Re: Cryo billing Jim is correct. This is from Family Practice Management: http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20001000/coding.html Q: How should CPT code 17003 be used? A: Code 17003 is for " Destruction by any method, including laser, with or without surgical curettement, all benign or premalignant lesions (e.g., actinic keratoses) other than skin tags or cutaneous vascular proliferative lesions, including local anesthesia; second through 14 lesions, each. " This code should be submitted in addition to the code for the first lesion, 17000, and it should be listed repeatedly for as many lesions as were destroyed. For example, if you destroyed three lesions of the type described by the code, you would submit code 17000 for the first lesion, and 17003 twice -- once for the second lesion and once for the third. If you destroy 15 or more such lesions, you should submit code 17004 once, regardless of the number of lesions you destroy. Do not use code 17000 in conjunction with code 17004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Thank you Jim and . I often think how before the IMP list I was too busy to even notice how often the work I so busy doing wasn't even being billed or paid correctly. I often think about all the other kindred docs who are stuck in the matrix. Stew Re: Cryo billing Jim is correct. This is from Family Practice Management: http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20001000/coding.html Q: How should CPT code 17003 be used? A: Code 17003 is for " Destruction by any method, including laser, with or without surgical curettement, all benign or premalignant lesions (e.g., actinic keratoses) other than skin tags or cutaneous vascular proliferative lesions, including local anesthesia; second through 14 lesions, each. " This code should be submitted in addition to the code for the first lesion, 17000, and it should be listed repeatedly for as many lesions as were destroyed. For example, if you destroyed three lesions of the type described by the code, you would submit code 17000 for the first lesion, and 17003 twice -- once for the second lesion and once for the third. If you destroy 15 or more such lesions, you should submit code 17004 once, regardless of the number of lesions you destroy. Do not use code 17000 in conjunction with code 17004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 Thank you Jim and . I often think how before the IMP list I was too busy to even notice how often the work I so busy doing wasn't even being billed or paid correctly. I often think about all the other kindred docs who are stuck in the matrix. Stew Re: Cryo billing Jim is correct. This is from Family Practice Management: http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20001000/coding.html Q: How should CPT code 17003 be used? A: Code 17003 is for " Destruction by any method, including laser, with or without surgical curettement, all benign or premalignant lesions (e.g., actinic keratoses) other than skin tags or cutaneous vascular proliferative lesions, including local anesthesia; second through 14 lesions, each. " This code should be submitted in addition to the code for the first lesion, 17000, and it should be listed repeatedly for as many lesions as were destroyed. For example, if you destroyed three lesions of the type described by the code, you would submit code 17000 for the first lesion, and 17003 twice -- once for the second lesion and once for the third. If you destroy 15 or more such lesions, you should submit code 17004 once, regardless of the number of lesions you destroy. Do not use code 17000 in conjunction with code 17004 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 21, 2010 Report Share Posted October 21, 2010 hopefully you can make your poor misinformed biller rebill your claims, UHC i think has 60 days, rest is about 1 year, medicare i think 2 years... grace ps to group... ive done so much verruca freeze that i am making the leap and getting a dewar.. $50 each fill for two to three months. not bad. eh? > > Thank you Jim and . I often think how before the IMP list I was too busy to even notice how often the work I so busy doing wasn't even being billed or paid correctly. > I often think about all the other kindred docs who are stuck in the matrix. > Stew > Re: Cryo billing > > Jim is correct. This is from Family Practice Management: > http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20001000/coding.html > > Q: How should CPT code 17003 be used? > > A: Code 17003 is for " Destruction by any method, including laser, with or without surgical curettement, all benign or premalignant lesions (e.g., actinic keratoses) other than skin tags or cutaneous vascular proliferative lesions, including local anesthesia; second through 14 lesions, each. " This code should be submitted in addition to the code for the first lesion, 17000, and it should be listed repeatedly for as many lesions as were destroyed. For example, if you destroyed three lesions of the type described by the code, you would submit code 17000 for the first lesion, and 17003 twice -- once for the second lesion and once for the third. If you destroy 15 or more such lesions, you should submit code 17004 once, regardless of the number of lesions you destroy. Do not use code 17000 in conjunction with code 17004 > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted October 26, 2010 Report Share Posted October 26, 2010 Medicare is now12 months. To: Sent: Thu, October 21, 2010 12:34:16 PMSubject: Re: Cryo billing hopefully you can make your poor misinformed biller rebill your claims, UHC i think has 60 days, rest is about 1 year, medicare i think 2 years...graceps to group... ive done so much verruca freeze that i am making the leap and getting a dewar.. $50 each fill for two to three months. not bad. eh?>> Thank you Jim and . I often think how before the IMP list I was too busy to even notice how often the work I so busy doing wasn't even being billed or paid correctly.> I often think about all the other kindred docs who are stuck in the matrix.> Stew> Re: Cryo billing> > Jim is correct. This is from Family Practice Management:> http://www.aafp.org/fpm/20001000/coding.html> > Q: How should CPT code 17003 be used?> > A: Code 17003 is for "Destruction by any method, including laser, with or without surgical curettement, all benign or premalignant lesions (e.g., actinic keratoses) other than skin tags or cutaneous vascular proliferative lesions, including local anesthesia; second through 14 lesions, each." This code should be submitted in addition to the code for the first lesion, 17000, and it should be listed repeatedly for as many lesions as were destroyed. For example, if you destroyed three lesions of the type described by the code, you would submit code 17000 for the first lesion, and 17003 twice -- once for the second lesion and once for the third. If you destroy 15 or more such lesions, you should submit code 17004 once, regardless of the number of lesions you destroy. Do not use code 17000 in conjunction with code 17004> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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