Re: blood vs. saliva--canary club results are confusing!!

[Guest guest]

If you consider that what is in the blood is NOT in the tissues it make

a bitmore sense. Blood labs only show what is in the blood. When thyroid

leaves the blood it goes into the tissues. Thus lowering the blood

levels and raising the tissue(saliva) levels. Are you on adrenl support?

It looks to me like between 2/14 and 6/16 that suddenly the thyroid was

getting into your tissues. If you started adrenal support in this time

it would make perfect sense. I totally ignore TSH. I do not find it

relevant to either type of testing. Now if you did not start adrenal

support, what did you change in that time frame?

--

Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

The BEST thyroid website! http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

One other thing that sticks out is your low Ferritin. It is unchanged,

are you taking any Iron? You need to be taking between 150 - 200mg a day

of elemental iron to get that level to 70-90 which is optimal.

--

Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

The BEST thyroid website! http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

>>so that's a total of 42 mg. is that the same as elemental? <<

Most likely. Are you a member of the Natural Thyroid Hormones group?

Post this there so Missy can see it, she knows alot more about iron than

I do.

--

Artistic Grooming * Hurricane, WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

The BEST thyroid website! http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Well good luck as there is alot more correct information on the NTH site

than most doctors can/will provide! Not being smart here but Missy is

away this weekend at a family reunion and should be back tomorrow. She

knows more about Ferritin than 95% of the doctors do. I sent you my

explanation of why the blood and saliva levels vary, did you see it?

Basically, when hormones are in the blood they are not in the tissues.

Then they move form the blood to the tissues. So when tissue levels are

high(or at least normal) blood levels are lower. Saliva samples come

from the tissues in your body. When Blood levels are high it is usually

a sign the hormones are not getting into the tissues as they should be.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Forgive this silly question, but if one is running a temperature, should one

discontinue the thyroid meds?

[Guest guest]

No , you are giving your body what it can't make any more. If you stop

the meds, it will be harder to recover from anything...............Meleese

in Oz xxx

-------Original Message-------

From: C. Mannelli, Ed.D.

Forgive this silly question, but if one is running a temperature, should one

discontinue the thyroid meds?

[Guest guest]

Depends on what the temp is form. If it is from fever from illness NO.

Your body needs thyroid to help it heal. If it is from too much thyroid

then yes.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

thanks!

-- Re: blood vs. saliva--canary club

results are confusing!!

No , you are giving your body what it can't make any more. If you stop

the meds, it will be harder to recover from anything...............Meleese

in Oz xxx

-------Original Message-------

From: C. Mannelli, Ed.D.

Forgive this silly question, but if one is running a temperature, should one

discontinue the thyroid meds?

[Guest guest]

How will I know which is which?

-- Re: blood vs. saliva--canary club

results are confusing!!

Depends on what the temp is form. If it is from fever from illness NO.

Your body needs thyroid to help it heal. If it is from too much thyroid

then yes.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

Do you feel sick like running a fever?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

No not really. I did have some weird illness yesterday probably the regular

monthly herxheimer die off from Lyme. I am on antibiotics as well.

I did the protocol for several months using T3 SR only. My doc never

told me to wean off so I stopped and lost hair realizing later, after

getting 's book, that I was actually now more hypo thyroid than before

-- Re: blood vs. saliva--canary club

results are confusing!!

Do you feel sick like running a fever?

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

I don't think with just 98.9 I would stop thyroid. If it goes to 99 or

higher then maybe but it sounds as if your body is just keeping the

temps up for healing.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

It was over 99 the first two weeks but now it is dropping down to normal so

I will add a bit of Armour.

Thanks!

-- Re: blood vs. saliva--canary club

results are confusing!!

I don't think with just 98.9 I would stop thyroid. If it goes to 99 or

higher then maybe but it sounds as if your body is just keeping the

temps up for healing.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

valerie--

ok, so if my T3 is high in the saliva sample, that means i have too much of it

in my tissues but since it shows up low in the blood, that means enough wasn't

getting into the tissues? but how do you correct that? it seems like it would

be hard to treat because you don't know what the T3 is doing day to day.

palma

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

>>ok, so if my T3 is high in the saliva sample<<

How high was it? Overrange? And by how much? If just a little I wouldn't worry

abut it, but if alot then you may be takign too much Armour.

--

Artistic Grooming- Hurricane WV

My Ebay Jewelry Store http://stores.ebay.com/valeriescrystalcreations

http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/NaturalThyroidHormonesADRENALS/

[Guest guest]

valerie--

i'm not taking any meds at all. i haven't taken thyroid meds since september

'05. and i've never taken adrenal meds.

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Music Unlimited - Access over 1 million songs.Try it free.

[Guest guest]

ok, so if my T3 is high in the saliva sample, that means i have too much of

it in my tissues but since it shows up low in the blood, that means enough

wasn't getting into the tissues? but how do you correct that? it seems

like it would be hard to treat because you don't know what the T3 is doing

day to day.

palma

====================================================================

When you take Armour, it first goes into the bloodstream. The T4 in Armour

must be converted to T3 in order to be taken up by the cells. Most of this

conversion takes place in the liver, although there is also some conversion

in peripheral tissues. T3 must then be taken up by the thyroid hormone

receptors located on cell membranes, and is then used by the mitochondria in

the cells to produce energy. If there are too few hormone receptors, or

there are genetic defects with the receptors, or iron levels are too low, or

cortisol levels are too low, or an imbalance of sex hormones, etc., T3 will

not get taken up by the thyroid hormone receptors and will not get used at

the cellular level.

When T3 levels are high in blood serum samples, it may mean that the T3 is

building up in the blood because it's not getting taken into the cells, for

the reasons listed above, and the person is still hypo. It could also mean

that a person is hyper, but symptoms and temps should help distinguish the

two situations.

Having a high T3 on a saliva sample may mean that the levels in the tissues

are too high. But maybe not. Some researchers do not believe thyroid

hormones can be accurately measured in saliva, because of the nature of

thyroid hormones as compared to sex hormones. That's why symptoms and temps

must be considered along with lab tests. Every lab test for thyroid has a

limitation. Blood tests for thyroid hormone may be more accurate at

measuring the hormones, but it's not as useful to know what's in the blood.

Just like TSH can be measured very accurately in blood, but many of us on

this board think knowing the TSH level is only useful when it's high. Low

levels can be quite misleading.

Your progesterone looks to be near bottom of range, and estrogen near top of

range. You could have estrogen dominance, which impacts thyroid. You had a

miscarriage, which could throw your hormones into a tailspin. Your B12

jumped way up in 6-16-06. Did you start supplementing between March and

June? Your ferritin at 23 is still way low. Estrogen dominance and low

ferritin can cause functional hypothyroidism.

Your results are confusing. For now, I would work at getting your ferritin

up to 70 and balancing out your estrogen and progesterone. With your DHEA

borderline normal, you may want to supplement with DHEA. Get that stuff

fixed, and keep checking your temperatures to see where they're headed.

Iodine is something else you might benefit from. I would suggest you check

out the benefits of iodine supplementation - we've had a lot of discussion

about that on this group, and there is also an Iodine yahoo group with great

resources in their files.

Lynn

[Guest guest]

lynn--

i may have already asked you this but what do you do for estrogen dominance?

eat less foods that are high in estrogen? do you supplement with progesterone?

only if that is low right?

thanks---palma

Lynn McGaha wrote:

ok, so if my T3 is high in the saliva sample, that means i have too

much of

it in my tissues but since it shows up low in the blood, that means enough

wasn't getting into the tissues? but how do you correct that? it seems

like it would be hard to treat because you don't know what the T3 is doing

day to day.

palma

====================================================================

When you take Armour, it first goes into the bloodstream. The T4 in Armour

must be converted to T3 in order to be taken up by the cells. Most of this

conversion takes place in the liver, although there is also some conversion

in peripheral tissues. T3 must then be taken up by the thyroid hormone

receptors located on cell membranes, and is then used by the mitochondria in

the cells to produce energy. If there are too few hormone receptors, or

there are genetic defects with the receptors, or iron levels are too low, or

cortisol levels are too low, or an imbalance of sex hormones, etc., T3 will

not get taken up by the thyroid hormone receptors and will not get used at

the cellular level.

When T3 levels are high in blood serum samples, it may mean that the T3 is

building up in the blood because it's not getting taken into the cells, for

the reasons listed above, and the person is still hypo. It could also mean

that a person is hyper, but symptoms and temps should help distinguish the

two situations.

Having a high T3 on a saliva sample may mean that the levels in the tissues

are too high. But maybe not. Some researchers do not believe thyroid

hormones can be accurately measured in saliva, because of the nature of

thyroid hormones as compared to sex hormones. That's why symptoms and temps

must be considered along with lab tests. Every lab test for thyroid has a

limitation. Blood tests for thyroid hormone may be more accurate at

measuring the hormones, but it's not as useful to know what's in the blood.

Just like TSH can be measured very accurately in blood, but many of us on

this board think knowing the TSH level is only useful when it's high. Low

levels can be quite misleading.

Your progesterone looks to be near bottom of range, and estrogen near top of

range. You could have estrogen dominance, which impacts thyroid. You had a

miscarriage, which could throw your hormones into a tailspin. Your B12

jumped way up in 6-16-06. Did you start supplementing between March and

June? Your ferritin at 23 is still way low. Estrogen dominance and low

ferritin can cause functional hypothyroidism.

Your results are confusing. For now, I would work at getting your ferritin

up to 70 and balancing out your estrogen and progesterone. With your DHEA

borderline normal, you may want to supplement with DHEA. Get that stuff

fixed, and keep checking your temperatures to see where they're headed.

Iodine is something else you might benefit from. I would suggest you check

out the benefits of iodine supplementation - we've had a lot of discussion

about that on this group, and there is also an Iodine yahoo group with great

resources in their files.

Lynn

---------------------------------

Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. Make PC-to-Phone Calls to the US (and 30+

countries) for 2¢/min or less.

[Guest guest]

If you have had testing that confirms that the ratio of estrogen to

progesterone is higher than it should be, then I think supplementing with

progesterone would be appropriate. I think you should make sure to support

the adrenals if they are not working well. I would avoid any soy products,

other than fermented soy, and anything with fractionated soy in it.

Hypothyroidism can lead to estrogen dominance, but without your temps it's

kind of confusing whether you are hypo or not.

I've seen some posts that make me think other people may be more

knowledgable on this than I am. Anyone else want to jump in?

Lynn

>lynn--

i may have already asked you this but what do you do for estrogen

dominance? eat less foods that are high in estrogen? do you supplement

with progesterone? only if that is low right?

thanks---palma