Re: Re: How to spot A borderline????

September 29, 2006

Oh yeah, I'm very leery and kind of repelled by people who want to be too close,

too fast. Or who offer to help me in some way that seems inappropriate given

the amount of time we've known each other.

I tend to be pretty reserved at first with friends and co-workers, but one funny

thing happened a few months ago with a guy I went out with! I think he was my

first (and hopefully my only) BP Date! Looking back, it's all classic BP

behavior...

First, he tried to get me to go out with him for three months, despite my saying

" no " each time. After a while, though, I admit I found it flattering, so I

figured why not? Huge mistake. The man actually proposed marriage during the

date! Seriously, he actually tried to pressure me into accepting a marriage

proposal. He then spent the next two weeks calling me several times a day,

talking about " our future " and if we should have kids and where we should live

and how he's told all his friends and relatives he's just met his future wife --

it's so incredible writing this, but it really happened!! He was fixated on

finding out exactly how I wanted my future life to be, and convincing me this

was exactly what he wanted, too! The whole time I felt incredibly flattered by

all the attention -- but also very manipulated and confused and went down the

road of questioning my own reality (my friends all thought his behavior was very

romantic and that he was a major catch because he had a high-profile career...

but I knew something was wrong, he just liked me TOO much, TOO fast.)

THEN, he starts telling me he loves me! I swear, in less than two weeks!! Not

only that, he was actually upset with me because I wouldn't say it back --

incredible. When I told him I didn't think we knew each other well enough

(after only one date!) to say something like that, he DISAPPEARED. We had plans

for a second date, but when I called to confirm he didn't take my call and just

never called me again after I told him that.

At the time I was hurt and confused, because it all happened so fast -- why

would anyone invest so much energy into convincing someone to go out with them,

then talk obsessively about planning a future together, then make this big

declaration of feelings... and then simply disappear? It was insane.

NOW I realize this must be what it's like to be romantically involved with a BP!

I got so pulled into being his entire focus and his intense need to bond

emotionally that I started to question the validity of my own boundaries! And

because he was so successful professionally and SEEMED to be so responsible and

intelligent and empathetic, I couldn't fully believe he was actually insane,

even if his behavior seemed impulsive or premature.

But then, just like with a nada, the moment you say or do ANYTHING that

represents having your own boundaries or do anything that seems rejecting in any

way -- poof! They're gone....

SO weird.... but now I realize how lucky I am that he chose to split me black

and disappear, because I was COMPLETELY unprepared to recognize he was probably

a BP at the time. I'd just never dated one before! Now I know better.

Shana

Re: How to spot A borderline????

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> Very good point -- my nada loves to jump intimacy levels with

> people

> too fast. If they like to drink, have a foul mouth, or chain-

> smoke,

> they're automatically her instant best friend. She tries to be

> their hero, gives advice, etc. She often declares " I love

> her!!! "

> about a new acquaintance based on the above criteria.

>

> One funny thing that happened while she was being Florence

> Nightingale to her own ungrateful mother: While nada was

> standing

> outside the hospital smoking, she became instant friends with

> another smoker. My nada fell all over herself " helping " this

> gal

> with advice and compliments.

>

> A few weeks later this gal calls my mom and asks for money!!! ha

> ha

> ha!!! Nada has no problem saying no to that. Guess the

> friendship's over! LOL!

>

> >

> > I have completly rid my life of " nut " . Not many people left,

> > however, the ones left are the good ones I want to keep in my life.

> > I have done some self reflecting and have realized how many

> > dysfunctionals I allowed in my life because that is all I knew.

> > I stand back know and slowly collect the pieces of the human

> puzzle,

> > waiting to see how they all fit before deciding where OR if

> that

> > person belongs in my life.

> >

> > My theropist gave me a good bit of advice on one of the

> borderline

> > qualities that if you notice in a person-RUN!!!! She said if

> your

> > encounter a person that wants to share there deep dark secrets

> or

> too

> > much of their live fast. BORDERLINE-RUN!!!!

> >

> > If anybody else have any tips they have learned along the way,

> PLEASE

> > share.

> >

>

September 29, 2006

Trish, YES!! Avoiding people who gossip is just a great point -- it really IS a

way of disrespecting boundaries as well as the privacy and dignity of others!

It also forces a " bond of negative intimacy " , as the two " gossipers " then share

a guilty secret, their mutual condemnation of someone else....

My nada uses this ALL the time to form bonds with people -- just put down

someone else who isn't in the room!

And I admit that there are times, when she's building up a rage against me, I

find it really helpful to distract her sometimes by bringing up the faults of

someone else -- especially one of her longtime grudges -- as she then splits me

white again and focuses her attention on demonizing THEM. I'm really going to

make a concerted effort to stop doing this -- it degrades me as much as it

degrades the " grudg-ee " .

Thanks for the distinction!

Shana

Re: How to spot A borderline????

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> ,

>

> I also steer clear of anyone who is quick to speak badly about others,

> who seems to have an overly anxious view of the world and who gives

> me the creeps for any reason. You can't be too careful.

>

> Trish

>

> >

> > I have completly rid my life of " nut " . Not many people left,

> > however, the ones left are the good ones I want to keep in my life.

> > I have done some self reflecting and have realized how many

> > dysfunctionals I allowed in my life because that is all I knew.

> > I stand back know and slowly collect the pieces of the human

> puzzle,

> > waiting to see how they all fit before deciding where OR if

> that

> > person belongs in my life.

> >

> > My theropist gave me a good bit of advice on one of the

> borderline

> > qualities that if you notice in a person-RUN!!!! She said if

> your

> > encounter a person that wants to share there deep dark secrets

> or too

> > much of their live fast. BORDERLINE-RUN!!!!

> >

> > If anybody else have any tips they have learned along the way,

> PLEASE

> > share.

> >

>

September 29, 2006

Hi Shana and All,

One thing that blew my mind was learning about gossip. I was taking a Human

Relations class and the sad truth is that people gossip. The most important

findings was that at work, 80% of the gossip is true AND that those people that

were not listening to the grapevine were often passed over for promotions, were

rated distrustful by their peers, and had a negative effect on their performance

evaluation. The text and the prof teaching the class said that it is just a

part of life, keeping your ear to the grapevine. However, you don't have to

spread the gossip. Gossip is one of the darker sides of our humanity in the

work place. Personal relationships are a different story b/c nobody has control

or authority over you and your life, so gossip isn't a good way of communicating

there.

Greg.

slarsen988@... wrote:

Trish, YES!! Avoiding people who gossip is just a great point -- it

really IS a way of disrespecting boundaries as well as the privacy and dignity

of others! It also forces a " bond of negative intimacy " , as the two " gossipers "

then share a guilty secret, their mutual condemnation of someone else....

My nada uses this ALL the time to form bonds with people -- just put down

someone else who isn't in the room!

And I admit that there are times, when she's building up a rage against me, I

find it really helpful to distract her sometimes by bringing up the faults of

someone else -- especially one of her longtime grudges -- as she then splits me

white again and focuses her attention on demonizing THEM. I'm really going to

make a concerted effort to stop doing this -- it degrades me as much as it

degrades the " grudg-ee " .

Thanks for the distinction!

Shana

Re: How to spot A borderline????

To: WTOAdultChildren1

> ,

>

> I also steer clear of anyone who is quick to speak badly about others,

> who seems to have an overly anxious view of the world and who gives

> me the creeps for any reason. You can't be too careful.

>

> Trish

>

> >

> > I have completly rid my life of " nut " . Not many people left,

> > however, the ones left are the good ones I want to keep in my life.

> > I have done some self reflecting and have realized how many

> > dysfunctionals I allowed in my life because that is all I knew.

> > I stand back know and slowly collect the pieces of the human

> puzzle,

> > waiting to see how they all fit before deciding where OR if

> that

> > person belongs in my life.

> >

> > My theropist gave me a good bit of advice on one of the

> borderline

> > qualities that if you notice in a person-RUN!!!! She said if

> your

> > encounter a person that wants to share there deep dark secrets

> or too

> > much of their live fast. BORDERLINE-RUN!!!!

> >

> > If anybody else have any tips they have learned along the way,

> PLEASE

> > share.

> >

>

September 29, 2006

This reminds me a bit of Roald Dhal's The Witches- how to stop a witch.

Perhaps it would be easier if there were physical charachteristics to look

out for? Like always wearing gloves and having bigger nostrils and blue

spit?

But, alas, there are none. I have learned to just say no to drama or crazy

making of any kind. I don't care from what it comes- BPD, or just some

other dysfunction. I don't want it in my life. This is the reason I

decided to stop talking to my psycho roomate last spring- not calming or

happy, didn't want to do it. If she called me I wouldn't answer the phone

and if she left a message I would just automatically delete it. Then when

she moves out she admits to all the stealing and lying she had so

veheminently denied and thinks it means we can all be friends. yeah right.

And I hope these people get the help they need- I really do. I wish the

best for them. But I am not going to be the person to help them. And I

want the best for them to take place far away from me.

-Ata

>

> Thanks for brining this topic to light. I know this is a topic I

> struggle with. My husband can be in a room with somebody for 2-5

> minutes and tell me their character. Once we have known them for a

> few months and see how they are he has never ever been wrong yet.

> Now me on the other hand.... I have gotten better with time I just

> continue to remind myself consciously and be reminded by my husband

> to (wink wink) not to trust people. One thing that has been brought

> up is the gossip I hate that and I run from people who gossip. I

> don't like people who have lots of problems but I always tend to

> have this compassionate side that feels sorry if somebody is going

> through a ruff time. I think now with crazy nada and crazy neighbor

> lady even that is coming to a screeching halt pretty fast. When I

> first met crazy bitter neighbor lady she poured out her life story

> to me red flag (I didn`t see it), she gossiped non stop red flag and

> you could hear literally hear the mood swings coming from her house

> red flag. She also avoided coming over and meeting my husband that

> was a red flag to for me. We did talk about my mom some and she

> seemed to almost justify her behavior that was a red flag. Then when

> we talked about our life dreams she said how she wanted to go back

> to school and do secretarial work I encouraged her and told her I

> would love to be in the counseling and psychology field she told me

> I would " never be able to do that " because she " couldn't imagine me

> in that field " again another red flag. After I was leaving our walk

> that night she bellowed out a racist comment and we pretty much

> never spoke again except for me to tell her to back off. I wish I

> would have paid closer attention and not even let our children

> become friends at all. It was my first time moving into a new house

> new neighbor hood new city and I was too eager to meet people. Now

> that I am here and many more people are moving in I am taking it

> slow. I have 2 nice people on the sides of me, the rest who I don't

> know so well I will take it slow getting to know them. I just have

> to learn to take it easy. Be more observant, I think that is the

> key. But growing up and being trusting I would say that is a flea I

> picked up and I am getting rid of it as best and fast as I can. Well

> thanks again for this topic it is a great one! Love Lizzy

>

> >

> > Spotting a borderline

> >

> > That is a good topic for me to address. I did notice that I

> attracted what I considered " wounded " people. Now I realize that

> the wounds were personality problems, most likely BPD

> >

> > Ouch, the gossip bond. I just realized that I have that bond

> with another woman. I have had some twangs when we were discussing

> someone else, mainly the minister's wife. In my church I view the

> minister's wife as very toxic; she has offended many people with her

> sharp tongue and verbal abuse. She also does a lot of (suppose to

> be) intimidating body language. Things like glaring at someone she

> disagrees with, rolling her eyes, and she gives her opinion with her

> hands on her hips stance. It does get kinda comical at times. The

> thought keeps coming to my mind " how old is she? " (she is nearly

> 50).

> >

> > The gossip partner has accepted a responsible position that

> begins Jan 1 and continues for three years. This elected, though

> volunteer job, will take up a tremendous amount of her time and so I

> see a natural progression that the relationship will be put into a

> holding pattern. I need to use this as an opportunity to gently put

> some distance between us. That is my responsibility.

> >

> > Blessings, mg

> >

September 29, 2006

Absolutely, Trish. And there is good gossip that will help a friend. I worked

in HR and would often gossip to a certain friend that, hey, you might want to

apply for this position b/c that one might be eliminated or so i heard. You're

absolutely right.

Greg.

tlblack2006 wrote:

Greg, that's a really good point, but I think that there is a time and

a place for gossip! As weird as that may sound. For example, when

there were major things going down at my previous job--or people that

were extremely unhappy, those of us who were close felt confident

enough to discuss these things with each other and being close with

colleagues is certainly a survival factor in any job. All the things

we said were true and of serious concern to us and, like you said, all

were true. It was sometimes gossipy, but I felt ok about the

situation because 1. these were my close friends at work and 2. we

were all going through the same stuff and having the courage to

discuss it(in secret at first) really had a positive effect later.

But, when a new employee came up to me on his first day and started

trashing another person that neither of us really knew and for no

apparent reason, that freaked me out. It was a total boundary

violation because we were not close, I didn't know if I could trust

him to repeat the info or not and I didn't even know if what he was

saying was true. (later I actuallly learned he was a bpd kind of guy

and was just projecting onto an unknown victim). So again, gossip may

be a part of life, but people who don't have boundaries and tact about

gossip are still trouble.

Trish

> > >

> > > I have completly rid my life of " nut " . Not many people left,

> > > however, the ones left are the good ones I want to keep in my life.

> > > I have done some self reflecting and have realized how many

> > > dysfunctionals I allowed in my life because that is all I knew.

> > > I stand back know and slowly collect the pieces of the human

> > puzzle,

> > > waiting to see how they all fit before deciding where OR if

> > that

> > > person belongs in my life.

> > >

> > > My theropist gave me a good bit of advice on one of the

> > borderline

> > > qualities that if you notice in a person-RUN!!!! She said if

> > your

> > > encounter a person that wants to share there deep dark secrets

> > or too

> > > much of their live fast. BORDERLINE-RUN!!!!

> > >

> > > If anybody else have any tips they have learned along the way,

> > PLEASE

> > > share.

> > >

> >

>

September 29, 2006

Wow, Trish, your nada is INSANE. On vacation with dangerous people?! I'm glad

you are alive. Also, I so know what you mean about seeing the red flag and then

not doing anything about it, but it usually is just a set that involves

authority.

Greg.

tlblack2006 wrote:

Lizzy, if you're like me then your fleas don't actually keep you from

recognizing red flags, they just keep you from acting on them. I'm

often guilty of having a bad feeling about a person and noticing

little weird stuff they do and then not following up on it. I give

people the benefit of the doubt when I actually really do know better.

That's plain old conditioning. My nada really taught me never to

reject anyone (because she was an outcast and rejected child I think).

In grade school if I didn't want to play with a kid because he/she

was weird, my nada would tell me to invite the person over or include

the person in my play. In highschool, when I didn't want to date guys

who made me uncomfortable (and who later turned out to be bad news)

nada would actually ENCOURAGE me to be around them and even invite

them over to the house. When I wanted to end a friendship with a

girlfirend that had a drug problem and who was unpredictable and a bad

influence on me, my nada told me that I was not being compassionate

and invited the friend on vacation with us. How sick is that??? I

mean, what parent actually encourages their children to date people

that are pushy sexually or stay friends with unstable drug addicts?

My guess is that you have all the red flag detectors you need, but

that they may have been invalidated by your upbringing. Don't worry,

you can learn to listen to them again.