Guest guest Posted September 23, 2006 Report Share Posted September 23, 2006 richardson, I have siblings in denial about the BPD and NPD in the family. For them and our parents, I'M the problem. For me, a BPD is a BPD is a BPD, and an NPD is an NPD is an NPD, whether it's a parent, sib, or other. One Non-BP Recovering Man --- richardson20214 wrote: > Hi folks- > New to the group- Have known for about 3 years that my mother is > probably undiagnosed BPD, through my own work in years of therapy > and psych assessments (I am non-BPD). I would not have brought it > up to my family (parents and younger brother) except I was finally > pushed to the wall recently and sent my father a thoughtful, careful > letter about my own understanding of our family and my healing that > came through that understanding. > > Turns out my brother had also written him to explain my brother's > marriage to ... a BPD. Everything hit the fan. Both father and > brother had strong denial reactions to me, my father through never > acknowledging the letter to me, and my brother excoriating me (my > father showed him the letter), in what was itself almost a > borderline rage, yelling (in front of my own son) that there was > absolutely no BPD in the family, I was making it up, that I was at > fault, a bad daughter, etc. > > I worked with my therapist and spiritual director (also a trained > counselor) to decide that for my sake and my son's sake, I needed > time with no contact with the family. I sent a brief email to that > effect, and my brother sent back another brutal email that was just > reckless cruelty. It's as if he has no filters in place for caring > how much he hurts me, almost as if I'm sub-human. > > Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? A younger sibling > in aggressive denial - who is himself divorcing a BPD. > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 > Turns out my brother had also written him to explain my brother's > marriage to ... a BPD. Everything hit the fan. Both father and > brother had strong denial reactions to me, my father through never > acknowledging the letter to me, and my brother excoriating me (my > father showed him the letter), in what was itself almost a > borderline rage, yelling (in front of my own son) that there was > absolutely no BPD in the family, I was making it up, that I was at > fault, a bad daughter, etc. It's as if he has no filters in place for caring > how much he hurts me, almost as if I'm sub-human. > > Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? A younger sibling > in aggressive denial - who is himself divorcing a BPD. > My family is the same way. BP mom, non-BP dad, Younger brothers- one married to a BP, but not divorcing. All in complete denial. I was, am, will always be the problem, if anyone even acknowledges there are problems. Because WE DON " T discuss problems, I've never had to deal with rages. I don't know how I'd handle them if I did. I wonder if the subject of BPD was at least mentioned, maybe someone else in my family would be willing to discuss my mom. More likely it would end up like the situation you're experiencing, though. I think you're very brave for at least attempting to address the problems with your family. It's a shame they are all too enmeshed to accept or deal with it yet, but their feelings aren't your responsibility, and no one has the right to treat you the way they did in response to your honesty. I agree that you should distance yourself, and especially your son, from the abusive behavior. At the very least their reaction supports the reality of the dysfunction in your family, and should serve as an example to both you and your son, of the need to come to terms with the effect of BPD in your lives to break the cycle. I wish you the best of luck. Ariel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 , my youngest brother is FULLY enmeshed(sp?) with my nada and there relationship is very sick. He's 26, still lives at home (fill in your own insanity here). He dates the most appauling, obnoxious women I have ever met. I seriously don't know how he even finds them or where they come from but they are EVIL. Some are BP-ish but it's really a mixed bag. My brother and my dad both have the mantra " oh, women are just like that. " Being a woman, I find that insulting and I know better. I think their denial that the women they choose have issues allows them to 1. go on with their co-dependant and super enmeshed relationships and 2. not to face up to the facts that the real problem is that THEY have chosen a sick person as their partner/spouse. For me as a KO, I took a look back at my love life about 5 years ago and could no longer say, " what was wrong with those guys? " or " why do I have such bad luck? " I had to say, " What is wrong with ME? " It didn't feel good and had I been in a codependent relationship where some of my disfunctional needs were being met, I don't even know if I would have had the clarity of mind to have posed myself the question. I think you have to be ready to come to these kinds of realizations and some people just aren't. And it is very hard being the only one in your family that is. I think you did the right thing taking a little time to separate from your (abusive) family. Trish > > > Hi folks- > > New to the group- Have known for about 3 years that my mother is > > probably undiagnosed BPD, through my own work in years of therapy > > and psych assessments (I am non-BPD). I would not have brought it > > up to my family (parents and younger brother) except I was finally > > pushed to the wall recently and sent my father a thoughtful, careful > > letter about my own understanding of our family and my healing that > > came through that understanding. > > > > Turns out my brother had also written him to explain my brother's > > marriage to ... a BPD. Everything hit the fan. Both father and > > brother had strong denial reactions to me, my father through never > > acknowledging the letter to me, and my brother excoriating me (my > > father showed him the letter), in what was itself almost a > > borderline rage, yelling (in front of my own son) that there was > > absolutely no BPD in the family, I was making it up, that I was at > > fault, a bad daughter, etc. > > > > I worked with my therapist and spiritual director (also a trained > > counselor) to decide that for my sake and my son's sake, I needed > > time with no contact with the family. I sent a brief email to that > > effect, and my brother sent back another brutal email that was just > > reckless cruelty. It's as if he has no filters in place for caring > > how much he hurts me, almost as if I'm sub-human. > > > > Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? A younger sibling > > in aggressive denial - who is himself divorcing a BPD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Trish- A million thanks. It's all so recent that I'm still emotionally bleeding, so what you say helps stop the flow. My father and brother did exactly the same thing: " oh, the women are bickering. " It was so destructive for me, because I was trying to say there was a problem - that I was defending myself, but not being on the offensive - and they completely shut me down. It's like I was speaking into a void. And what was most defeating for me was, when my brother came home (from overseas) with the announcement that he was divorcing his wife because she was borderline, I thought we could see and support this problem together. And he did the worst possible thing - completely denying borderline in our family. I just can't get my head around it. It really is insane. They blame me for cutting them off from their grandchild, but, as you suggest, the only way I could keep my own sanity, with the support of therapist and others, is to create a space for my son and me where their voices are not so loud. I tried for years to facilitate my son's relationship with them, so he could know them and they could know the wonderful joy that he is, but it has become debiliating (and he doesn't like my mother anyway). By the way, reading about NC and RC means so much to me - I thought I was crazy to take this step. I feel less crazy now. R > > > > > Hi folks- > > > New to the group- Have known for about 3 years that my mother is > > > probably undiagnosed BPD, through my own work in years of therapy > > > and psych assessments (I am non-BPD). I would not have brought it > > > up to my family (parents and younger brother) except I was finally > > > pushed to the wall recently and sent my father a thoughtful, careful > > > letter about my own understanding of our family and my healing that > > > came through that understanding. > > > > > > Turns out my brother had also written him to explain my brother's > > > marriage to ... a BPD. Everything hit the fan. Both father and > > > brother had strong denial reactions to me, my father through never > > > acknowledging the letter to me, and my brother excoriating me (my > > > father showed him the letter), in what was itself almost a > > > borderline rage, yelling (in front of my own son) that there was > > > absolutely no BPD in the family, I was making it up, that I was at > > > fault, a bad daughter, etc. > > > > > > I worked with my therapist and spiritual director (also a trained > > > counselor) to decide that for my sake and my son's sake, I needed > > > time with no contact with the family. I sent a brief email to that > > > effect, and my brother sent back another brutal email that was just > > > reckless cruelty. It's as if he has no filters in place for caring > > > how much he hurts me, almost as if I'm sub-human. > > > > > > Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? A younger sibling > > > in aggressive denial - who is himself divorcing a BPD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 Ariel, thank you so much. I can't tell you what this means to me - but I'm sure you understand. I get strength from the way you seem to have been able to so clearly differentiate yourself (to use a pop term) from the whole mess, and not to undercut your own insights, which is still a bit my struggle. A question - I feel dumb, but what is 'KO'? I only know it as 'knock out.' > > Turns out my brother had also written him to explain my brother's > > marriage to ... a BPD. Everything hit the fan. Both father and > > brother had strong denial reactions to me, my father through never > > acknowledging the letter to me, and my brother excoriating me (my > > father showed him the letter), in what was itself almost a > > borderline rage, yelling (in front of my own son) that there was > > absolutely no BPD in the family, I was making it up, that I was at > > fault, a bad daughter, etc. > > It's as if he has no filters in place for caring > > how much he hurts me, almost as if I'm sub-human. > > > > Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? A younger sibling > > in aggressive denial - who is himself divorcing a BPD. > > > > My family is the same way. BP mom, non-BP dad, Younger brothers- > one married to a BP, but not divorcing. All in complete denial. I > was, am, will always be the problem, if anyone even acknowledges > there are problems. Because WE DON " T discuss problems, I've never > had to deal with rages. I don't know how I'd handle them if I did. I > wonder if the subject of BPD was at least mentioned, maybe someone > else in my family would be willing to discuss my mom. More likely it > would end up like the situation you're experiencing, though. > > I think you're very brave for at least attempting to address the > problems with your family. It's a shame they are all too enmeshed to > accept or deal with it yet, but their feelings aren't your > responsibility, and no one has the right to treat you the way they > did in response to your honesty. I agree that you should distance > yourself, and especially your son, from the abusive behavior. At the > very least their reaction supports the reality of the dysfunction in > your family, and should serve as an example to both you and your > son, of the need to come to terms with the effect of BPD in your > lives to break the cycle. I wish you the best of luck. > > Ariel > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 24, 2006 Report Share Posted September 24, 2006 I can relate to the problems you talk about. I have not talked to my sister for a long time, over 4 years I do it out of necessity. She just called me for the first time this past spring and then again a few weeks ago. Our conversation was only a few minutes. But when I first went n/c she went around telling every body that she was an only child. It didn't bother me that she wanted the parents to herself I found it disturbing how she was talking. After all I was there for her every day of her life. When my nada was off in the bars sluting it up I was at home taking care of my baby sister. I was the one who changed her diapers I was the one who drove her to school I was the one who picked her up. How could she forget all the time we spent together, when mom wasn't there for us we were together. We used to be close but now I can see she is just taking in all the money gifts and attention she can get. It is really hard, I guess I didn't think she was so superficial. The other part that makes it really hard it that the whole family is totally oblivious to my nadas crap. Like Ariel was saying they won't even acknowledge a problem but if they do it's not my mom it's me. Better to avoid than confront. The even more twisted thing is that my nada thinks she is confronting me by giving me fits of rage every now and then and because I don't respond to the rage she thinks I am hiding or avoiding her. NO I just refuse to be abused, there is a big difference. So now they accuse me of running and not confronting but they don't even understand the beginning of the word confront. To them it means explode and forget. It does not mean acknowledge and solve. So no I don't get support from them and it sucks but it is better than living under them. Good luck lizzy > > Hi folks- > New to the group- Have known for about 3 years that my mother is > probably undiagnosed BPD, through my own work in years of therapy > and psych assessments (I am non-BPD). I would not have brought it > up to my family (parents and younger brother) except I was finally > pushed to the wall recently and sent my father a thoughtful, careful > letter about my own understanding of our family and my healing that > came through that understanding. > > Turns out my brother had also written him to explain my brother's > marriage to ... a BPD. Everything hit the fan. Both father and > brother had strong denial reactions to me, my father through never > acknowledging the letter to me, and my brother excoriating me (my > father showed him the letter), in what was itself almost a > borderline rage, yelling (in front of my own son) that there was > absolutely no BPD in the family, I was making it up, that I was at > fault, a bad daughter, etc. > > I worked with my therapist and spiritual director (also a trained > counselor) to decide that for my sake and my son's sake, I needed > time with no contact with the family. I sent a brief email to that > effect, and my brother sent back another brutal email that was just > reckless cruelty. It's as if he has no filters in place for caring > how much he hurts me, almost as if I'm sub-human. > > Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? A younger sibling > in aggressive denial - who is himself divorcing a BPD. > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 Lizzy, You wrote, " they don't even understand the beginning of the word confront. To them it means explode and forget. It does not mean acknowledge and solve. " Well said, thanks. One Non-BP Recovering Man --- lizzyboo81 wrote: > I can relate to the problems you talk about. I have not talked to my > sister for a long time, over 4 years I do it out of necessity. She > just called me for the first time this past spring and then again a > few weeks ago. Our conversation was only a few minutes. But when I > first went n/c she went around telling every body that she was an > only child. It didn't bother me that she wanted the parents to > herself I found it disturbing how she was talking. After all I was > there for her every day of her life. When my nada was off in the > bars sluting it up I was at home taking care of my baby sister. I > was the one who changed her diapers I was the one who drove her to > school I was the one who picked her up. How could she forget all the > time we spent together, when mom wasn't there for us we were > together. We used to be close but now I can see she is just taking > in all the money gifts and attention she can get. It is really hard, > I guess I didn't think she was so superficial. The other part that > makes it really hard it that the whole family is totally oblivious > to my nadas crap. Like Ariel was saying they won't even acknowledge > a problem but if they do it's not my mom it's me. Better to avoid > than confront. The even more twisted thing is that my nada thinks > she is confronting me by giving me fits of rage every now and then > and because I don't respond to the rage she thinks I am hiding or > avoiding her. NO I just refuse to be abused, there is a big > difference. So now they accuse me of running and not confronting but > they don't even understand the beginning of the word confront. To > them it means explode and forget. It does not mean acknowledge and > solve. So no I don't get support from them and it sucks but it is > better than living under them. Good luck lizzy > > > > > Hi folks- > > New to the group- Have known for about 3 years that my mother is > > probably undiagnosed BPD, through my own work in years of therapy > > and psych assessments (I am non-BPD). I would not have brought it > > up to my family (parents and younger brother) except I was finally > > pushed to the wall recently and sent my father a thoughtful, > careful > > letter about my own understanding of our family and my healing > that > > came through that understanding. > > > > Turns out my brother had also written him to explain my brother's > > marriage to ... a BPD. Everything hit the fan. Both father and > > brother had strong denial reactions to me, my father through never > > acknowledging the letter to me, and my brother excoriating me (my > > father showed him the letter), in what was itself almost a > > borderline rage, yelling (in front of my own son) that there was > > absolutely no BPD in the family, I was making it up, that I was at > > fault, a bad daughter, etc. > > > > I worked with my therapist and spiritual director (also a trained > > counselor) to decide that for my sake and my son's sake, I needed > > time with no contact with the family. I sent a brief email to > that > > effect, and my brother sent back another brutal email that was > just > > reckless cruelty. It's as if he has no filters in place for > caring > > how much he hurts me, almost as if I'm sub-human. > > > > Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? A younger sibling > > in aggressive denial - who is himself divorcing a BPD. > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 , I can understand your FOO feelings. Being RC with my FOO helps me keep my sanity. One Non-BP Recovering Man --- richardson20214 wrote: > Trish- > A million thanks. It's all so recent that I'm still emotionally > bleeding, so what you say helps stop the flow. My father and > brother did exactly the same thing: " oh, the women are bickering. " > It was so destructive for me, because I was trying to say there was > a problem - that I was defending myself, but not being on the > offensive - and they completely shut me down. It's like I was > speaking into a void. > > And what was most defeating for me was, when my brother came home > (from overseas) with the announcement that he was divorcing his wife > because she was borderline, I thought we could see and support this > problem together. And he did the worst possible thing - completely > denying borderline in our family. I just can't get my head around > it. It really is insane. > > They blame me for cutting them off from their grandchild, but, as > you suggest, the only way I could keep my own sanity, with the > support of therapist and others, is to create a space for my son and > me where their voices are not so loud. I tried for years to > facilitate my son's relationship with them, so he could know them > and they could know the wonderful joy that he is, but it has become > debiliating (and he doesn't like my mother anyway). > > By the way, reading about NC and RC means so much to me - I thought > I was crazy to take this step. I feel less crazy now. > R > > > > > > > > > > Hi folks- > > > > New to the group- Have known for about 3 years that my mother > is > > > > probably undiagnosed BPD, through my own work in years of > therapy > > > > and psych assessments (I am non-BPD). I would not have > brought it > > > > up to my family (parents and younger brother) except I was > finally > > > > pushed to the wall recently and sent my father a thoughtful, > careful > > > > letter about my own understanding of our family and my healing > that > > > > came through that understanding. > > > > > > > > Turns out my brother had also written him to explain my > brother's > > > > marriage to ... a BPD. Everything hit the fan. Both father > and > > > > brother had strong denial reactions to me, my father through > never > > > > acknowledging the letter to me, and my brother excoriating me > (my > > > > father showed him the letter), in what was itself almost a > > > > borderline rage, yelling (in front of my own son) that there > was > > > > absolutely no BPD in the family, I was making it up, that I > was at > > > > fault, a bad daughter, etc. > > > > > > > > I worked with my therapist and spiritual director (also a > trained > > > > counselor) to decide that for my sake and my son's sake, I > needed > > > > time with no contact with the family. I sent a brief email to > that > > > > effect, and my brother sent back another brutal email that was > just > > > > reckless cruelty. It's as if he has no filters in place for > caring > > > > how much he hurts me, almost as if I'm sub-human. > > > > > > > > Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? A younger > sibling > > > > in aggressive denial - who is himself divorcing a BPD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 R, I'm glad you're finding comfort on this board. Have you seen the film where aliens arrive on earth and attack human beings through these pods and then inhabit their bodies. The alien-people look just like normal people but when a normal person goes up to one and shows emotion and starts talking, the alien lets out this piercing shriek. . ..invasion of the body-snatchers??? Anyway, that's how I feel in my foo. Like I'm the token human in the family and when I let it show they sound the alarm and get ready to attack and make an alien out of me. Anyway, that was a long-rambling way to say, yes, I know exactly how you feel when you think a family member will understand and he/she just doesn't. Trish > > > > > > > Hi folks- > > > > New to the group- Have known for about 3 years that my mother > is > > > > probably undiagnosed BPD, through my own work in years of > therapy > > > > and psych assessments (I am non-BPD). I would not have > brought it > > > > up to my family (parents and younger brother) except I was > finally > > > > pushed to the wall recently and sent my father a thoughtful, > careful > > > > letter about my own understanding of our family and my healing > that > > > > came through that understanding. > > > > > > > > Turns out my brother had also written him to explain my > brother's > > > > marriage to ... a BPD. Everything hit the fan. Both father > and > > > > brother had strong denial reactions to me, my father through > never > > > > acknowledging the letter to me, and my brother excoriating me > (my > > > > father showed him the letter), in what was itself almost a > > > > borderline rage, yelling (in front of my own son) that there > was > > > > absolutely no BPD in the family, I was making it up, that I > was at > > > > fault, a bad daughter, etc. > > > > > > > > I worked with my therapist and spiritual director (also a > trained > > > > counselor) to decide that for my sake and my son's sake, I > needed > > > > time with no contact with the family. I sent a brief email to > that > > > > effect, and my brother sent back another brutal email that was > just > > > > reckless cruelty. It's as if he has no filters in place for > caring > > > > how much he hurts me, almost as if I'm sub-human. > > > > > > > > Anyone have experience with this sort of thing? A younger > sibling > > > > in aggressive denial - who is himself divorcing a BPD. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 25, 2006 Report Share Posted September 25, 2006 thanks so much, to all. A question for advice: I'm working with my therapist to find an age-appropriate way to explain to my 9-year-old why we're 'taking a break' from my FOO (I won't use abbreviations with him!). I'll probably say it in terms of their needing some time to work out things, so that it doesn't come across to him as if we are the problem (unlike my family's desperately held explanation for everything, that we are the problem). But - anybody have suggestions here? tnx > > > > Trish- > > A million thanks. It's all so recent that I'm still emotionally > > bleeding, so what you say helps stop the flow. My father and > > brother did exactly the same thing: " oh, the women are bickering. " > > It was so destructive for me, because I was trying to say there was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest guest Posted September 26, 2006 Report Share Posted September 26, 2006 Thanks,Shana, and Recov'g Man - excellent suggestions. Really. I'm going to take probably a couple of sessions with therapist to sort out the message- will post here what we come up with. > > > > > > > > > > Trish- > > > > > A million thanks. It's all so recent that I'm still > > emotionally > > > > > bleeding, so what you say helps stop the flow. My father > > and > > > > > brother did exactly the same thing: " oh, the women are > > > bickering. " > > > > > It was so destructive for me, because I was trying to say > > there > > > was > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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