Re: functional medicine - toxic mold

October 7, 2010

Do you really believe this stuff? Dr Kingman, an ENT, at the Univ, says you can culture mold out of everyone's sinuses, as well as bacteria. He believes all sinus disease is inflammatory, not infectious.

From: [ ] On Behalf Of Gordon [cygnusdave@...]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 8:17 AM

To:

Subject: Re: functional medicine - toxic mold

in addition to removing the mold as deanna notes, most of the mold folks are using cholestyramine to help bind up the biotoxins which apparently follow the enterohepatic circulation. Generally 1-2 packets per day. Most often they say symptoms can worsen

for 2-3 weeks and then improve. Additionally if patients have any hx of constipation cholestyramine will make it worse and you need to prepare for that

There's an ENT here in Denver who specializes in sinusitis caused by molds. Once he determines this is the problem, he advises the patient to hire a company that cleans up their home in a " green " manner. He's had great success. Offered me a job once,

although it sounded really boring, seeing patients in his " mold " program. I don't remember that he uses any supplements -- since he was convinced that this mold, which is really common at this altitude and humidity, was the cause of the problem most of the

time. I can't remember the name of the mold, but I could find out for you, if you need to know, and the name of the company he advises people to use. He thinks our " better " construction methods, which make for very energy-efficient air-tight houses, are

most of the problem.

Deanna Tolman, FNP

Aurora, CO

In a message dated 10/6/2010 11:22:02 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

tagabanawa@... writes:

just wanting to know if anyone out there knows mech of action for toxic mold .. stachybotrys etc and how to counteract neurotoxins etc through nutritional supplements..

grace

October 8, 2010

i think there is a difference between what grace asked and what deanna is discussing with the sinusitis. There are a small group of physicians led by a ritchie shoemaker in maryland that postulates the presence of biotoxins produced by certain mold species ignite an inflammatory process that can lead to profound neuro and hormonal effects on the body. They postulate this is not due specifically to the presence of the organisms (such as with typical fungal or bacterial infections) but rather the release of biotoxins that cycle through the enterohepatic circulation. This has actually been shown in some dramatic instances where there has been mass illness associated with mold contamination of buildings. Treatment of individuals and treatment of the buildings led to notable symptom recovery. I think what is in question is whether this is occurring on smaller scale for individuals in isolated settings. The physicians that are proponents of this would argue that the inflammation caused by these mold biotoxins (not the actual presence of the mold itsself) is responsible for a wealth of disease out there (MS, fibro, depression, chronic fatigue, etc.) Personally I think there are many other factors out there besides mold. However, if you read their material, the toxin-mediated inflammatory pathway is quite interesting. I would agree with the statements that mold is ubiquitous in the body, however, there are certain strains that are not typical colonizers and thus more associated with pathogenic processes.

Whether sinusitis is an infectious process or an inflammatory one (whether we're discussing molds or bacteria) is another very interesting topic. As my opinion is with nearly all things in medicine, it's not a black and white answer. I would assume in many situations sinusitis is an inflammatory process triggered by irritants, foods, organisms, etc. However, there are defnintely times where active infection is playing a role. I think that is where following guidelines of aggressive irrigating for 7-10 days makes sense and if then considering antibiotics if there continues to be intense sinus related symptoms. As I tell patients, the antibiotics only are needed if the " neck up " symptoms are profound after a sufficient time duration.

Finally, I love the use of Neti Pots and Neil Med bottles, especially here in colorado where it's so dry. It's probably second favorite of my suggestions (with drinking more water being first). Note Neil Med will send you unlimited amount of sample rinse bottles and neti pots and it's nice to be able to give those out to patients when they are in for URIs.

One more finally...I think people should keep an open mind that just because we don't fully understand the pathogenesis of a disease process (or more specifically, have a prescription drug to treat it) doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Love the rinses, use them myself. The data, published in many recent studies on antibiotics and steroids, show no effect beyond the rinses. The steroids of course help with allergy.

From: [ ] On Behalf Of tolpeople@... [tolpeople@...]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 10:26 AM

To:

Subject: Re: functional medicine - toxic mold

Well, he's certainly entitled to his opinion. My experience is that there's a combination and a synergy of overgrowth of some type of microbe (usually our own oral-nasal-pharyngeal inhabitants), feeding on the mucus produced from infection (an original

viral infection now secondarily overgrown with bacteria) or allergen-induced. Inflammation results from the original viral or allergenic set-up, but then continues with the overgrowth of bacteria inflaming the tissues. When antibiotics (to calm the overgrowth),

nasal steroid sprays (to calm the inflammation), and twice-daily sinus rinses (to wash away the bacterial overgrowth and the bacteria-feeding mucus) fail to clear the problem (and in my experience, this combination almost always does fix the problem), I guess

this physician has had many referrals from other ENTs. At least that's what he told me in my job interview. I believe strongly in the Neil-Med Sinus Rinse Kit, which has been very easy-to-use and successful for all my allergic family and friends in both

prevention and treatment of sinus infections, and I've never had to send a patient on to a specialist if I can get them to do these sinus rinses routinely during cold/allergy season.

Deanna, FNP

Do you really believe this stuff? Dr Kingman, an ENT, at the Univ, says you can culture mold out of everyone's sinuses, as well as bacteria. He believes all sinus disease is inflammatory, not infectious.

From: [ ] On Behalf Of Gordon [cygnusdave@...]

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2010 8:17 AM

To:

Subject: Re: functional medicine - toxic mold

in addition to removing the mold as deanna notes, most of the mold folks are using cholestyramine to help bind up the biotoxins which apparently follow the enterohepatic circulation. Generally 1-2 packets per day. Most often they say symptoms can worsen

for 2-3 weeks and then improve. Additionally if patients have any hx of constipation cholestyramine will make it worse and you need to prepare for that

There's an ENT here in Denver who specializes in sinusitis caused by molds. Once he determines this is the problem, he advises the patient to hire a company that cleans up their home in a " green " manner. He's had great success. Offered me a job once,

although it sounded really boring, seeing patients in his " mold " program. I don't remember that he uses any supplements -- since he was convinced that this mold, which is really common at this altitude and humidity, was the cause of the problem most of the

time. I can't remember the name of the mold, but I could find out for you, if you need to know, and the name of the company he advises people to use. He thinks our " better " construction methods, which make for very energy-efficient air-tight houses, are

most of the problem.

Deanna Tolman, FNP

Aurora, CO

In a message dated 10/6/2010 11:22:02 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

tagabanawa@... writes:

just wanting to know if anyone out there knows mech of action for toxic mold .. stachybotrys etc and how to counteract neurotoxins etc through nutritional supplements..

grace

October 8, 2010

" ever since i was in THIS house that had THIS mold " ive been sick.. " 8 years

this patient has suffered. i cannot ignore the fact that this to her is so

distinct. ive not heard of cholestyramine, is there white paper there regarding

this?

i just want to see and ask the functional medicine people out there that if you

can supplement deficiencies toxic exposure has produced maybe we can truly get

the people better if i just know the right regime.

still searching..

grace

(thanks peeps)

> >

> >>

> >> There's an ENT here in Denver who specializes in sinusitis caused by

> >> molds. Once he determines this is the problem, he advises the patient to

> >> hire a company that cleans up their home in a " green " manner. He's had

> >> great success. Offered me a job once, although it sounded really boring,

> >> seeing patients in his " mold " program. I don't remember that he uses any

> >> supplements -- since he was convinced that this mold, which is really

common

> >> at this altitude and humidity, was the cause of the problem most of the

> >> time. I can't remember the name of the mold, but I could find out for you,

> >> if you need to know, and the name of the company he advises people to use.

> >> He thinks our " better " construction methods, which make for very

> >> energy-efficient air-tight houses, are most of the problem.

> >>

> >> Deanna Tolman, FNP

> >> Aurora, CO

> >>

> >> In a message dated 10/6/2010 11:22:02 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> >> tagabanawa@... writes:

> >>

> >> just wanting to know if anyone out there knows mech of action for toxic

> >> mold .. stachybotrys etc and how to counteract neurotoxins etc through

> >> nutritional supplements..

> >> grace

> >>

> >

>

October 8, 2010

very interesting. ill share this with patient and maybe have her try it... im

ready to try anything she says... and im willing to help her on this one. thanks

grace

> > > >

> > > >>

> > > >> There's an ENT here in Denver who specializes in sinusitis caused by

> > > >> molds. Once he determines this is the problem, he advises the patient

> > to

> > > >> hire a company that cleans up their home in a " green " manner. He's had

> > > >> great success. Offered me a job once, although it sounded really

> > boring,

> > > >> seeing patients in his " mold " program. I don't remember that he uses

> > any

> > > >> supplements -- since he was convinced that this mold, which is really

> > common

> > > >> at this altitude and humidity, was the cause of the problem most of

> > the

> > > >> time. I can't remember the name of the mold, but I could find out for

> > you,

> > > >> if you need to know, and the name of the company he advises people to

> > use.

> > > >> He thinks our " better " construction methods, which make for very

> > > >> energy-efficient air-tight houses, are most of the problem.

> > > >>

> > > >> Deanna Tolman, FNP

> > > >> Aurora, CO

> > > >>

> > > >> In a message dated 10/6/2010 11:22:02 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,

> > > >> tagabanawa@ writes:

> > > >>

> > > >> just wanting to know if anyone out there knows mech of action for

> > toxic

> > > >> mold .. stachybotrys etc and how to counteract neurotoxins etc through

> > > >> nutritional supplements..

> > > >> grace

> > > >>

> > > >

> > >

> >

>

October 8, 2010

I probably can't get the book for awhile, but I personally have been having some nasty sinus infection and allergy related issues the past few months.... Might you be able to share the exact Formula and dosing and the like, and the place you order from... It sounds like a possible solution.... How much do these custom things tend to run??? No coverage right now.... Thanks

To: Sent: Fri, October 8, 2010 1:13:35 PMSubject: Re: Re: functional medicine - toxic mold

I have had great success opening up people sinuses and preventing further infection w Acupuncture. They come back every month and are very happy. No more ab and congestion. There is a reference in Rakel Integrative Medincine book to a compounded nasal sray of bactorban, stroid and anti fungal. I have not Rx it yet but waiting for my first pt.....

very interesting. ill share this with patient and maybe have her try it... im ready to try anything she says... and im willing to help her on this one. thanksgrace > > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>

There's an ENT here in Denver who specializes in sinusitis caused by> > > >> molds. Once he determines this is the problem, he advises the patient> > to> > > >> hire a company that cleans up their home in a "green" manner. He's had> > > >> great success. Offered me a job once, although it sounded really> > boring,> > > >> seeing patients in his "mold" program. I don't remember that he uses> > any> > > >> supplements -- since he was convinced that this mold, which is really> > common> > > >> at this altitude and humidity, was the cause of the problem most of> > the> > > >> time. I can't remember the name of the mold, but I could find out for> > you,> > > >> if you need to know, and the name of the company he advises people to> >

use.> > > >> He thinks our "better" construction methods, which make for very> > > >> energy-efficient air-tight houses, are most of the problem.> > > >>> > > >> Deanna Tolman, FNP> > > >> Aurora, CO> > > >>> > > >> In a message dated 10/6/2010 11:22:02 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,> > > >> tagabanawa@ writes:> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> just wanting to know if anyone out there knows mech of action for> > toxic> > > >> mold .. stachybotrys etc and how to counteract neurotoxins etc through> > > >> nutritional supplements..> > > >> grace> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > >>

>> > > >>

-- M.D.www.elainemd.comOffice: Go in the directions of your dreams and live the life you've imagined.This email transmission may contain protected and privileged, highly confidential medical, Personal and Health Information (PHI) and/or legal information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this material, you may not use, publish, discuss, disseminate or otherwise distribute it. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and confidentially destroy the information that email in error.

October 8, 2010

, First run don't walk to the drug store, buy one of those sinus irrigating bottles. NeilMed makes them, they cost less than $10. Don't spend money on the packets. Mix your own solution with 1/2 teaspoon table salt and 1/2 half baking soda in 8 oz of warm (body temp) water. Irrigate both nostrils bid and continue for several weeks. Be gentle, follow the directions. I like the Mayo Clinic's video for easy how to. You will be amazed. There is EBM for this. If you don't improve, there are other cards that can be played in a step wise more aggressive fashion. But start there. I hope you'll feel better very soon. Sinus crap can be miserable.Take care,KathleenI probably can't get the book for awhile, but I personally have been having some nasty sinus infection and allergy related issues the past few months.... Might you be able to share the exact Formula and dosing and the like, and the place you order from... It sounds like a possible solution.... How much do these custom things tend to run??? No coverage right now.... Thanks To: Sent: Fri, October 8, 2010 1:13:35 PMSubject: Re: Re: functional medicine - toxic mold I have had great success opening up people sinuses and preventing further infection w Acupuncture. They come back every month and are very happy. No more ab and congestion. There is a reference in Rakel Integrative Medincine book to a compounded nasal sray of bactorban, stroid and anti fungal. I have not Rx it yet but waiting for my first pt..... very interesting. ill share this with patient and maybe have her try it... im ready to try anything she says... and im willing to help her on this one. thanksgrace> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> There's an ENT here in Denver who specializes in sinusitis caused by> > > >> molds. Once he determines this is the problem, he advises the patient> > to> > > >> hire a company that cleans up their home in a "green" manner. He's had> > > >> great success. Offered me a job once, although it sounded really> > boring,> > > >> seeing patients in his "mold" program. I don't remember that he uses> > any> > > >> supplements -- since he was convinced that this mold, which is really> > common> > > >> at this altitude and humidity, was the cause of the problem most of> > the> > > >> time. I can't remember the name of the mold, but I could find out for> > you,> > > >> if you need to know, and the name of the company he advises people to> > use.> > > >> He thinks our "better" construction methods, which make for very> > > >> energy-efficient air-tight houses, are most of the problem.> > > >>> > > >> Deanna Tolman, FNP> > > >> Aurora, CO> > > >>> > > >> In a message dated 10/6/2010 11:22:02 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,> > > >> tagabanawa@ writes:> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> just wanting to know if anyone out there knows mech of action for> > toxic> > > >> mold .. stachybotrys etc and how to counteract neurotoxins etc through> > > >> nutritional supplements..> > > >> grace> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > >> >> > > >>-- M.D.www.elainemd.comOffice: Go in the directions of your dreams and live the life you've imagined.This email transmission may contain protected and privileged, highly confidential medical, Personal and Health Information (PHI) and/or legal information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this material, you may not use, publish, discuss, disseminate or otherwise distribute it. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and confidentially destroy the information that email in error.

October 8, 2010

Oh I'm already an avid nose rinser... I have had sinus issues for years and my left tube likes to clog up easily just enough to be painful, interfere with good hearing (which stinks already as a previous Rock Musician and Audio Engineer) and more recently pretty upsetting headaches with sinuses even make teeth somewhat sensative. We have way too many furry quadrapeds in our home, both feline and canine no less the litter boxes (yes plural) for the fleet... And this part of the country is not kind to sinuses as the this part of the Great Lakes has lots of general moisture and interesting mixes of pollen thru various seasons... It was my dentist recently that pegged my low level, not enough to think I was sick infection as one problematic upper jaw tooth became incredibly sensative and so I thought it's

crown was loose... He took an X-Ray of the section of my mouth and showed my just how inflamed my sinuses were just above there and Rx'ed a round of Anti-Biotics and there went the majority of my headaches about a week later as the infection started to wane... And now I picked up something new from or a patient, kids back to school and all my symptoms of mild nausa, bothersome ears, left much worse than right, and the nasty headaches have all returned... As a matter of fact I am feeling rather crumby right now....

But thanks for the advice as I understand the idea of mild therapies before more intense ones and nasal cleanliness does certainly help.... I've just got a big sensitive honker...

To: Sent: Fri, October 8, 2010 3:59:13 PMSubject: Re: Re: functional medicine - toxic mold

, First run don't walk to the drug store, buy one of those sinus irrigating bottles. NeilMed makes them, they cost less than $10. Don't spend money on the packets. Mix your own solution with 1/2 teaspoon table salt and 1/2 half baking soda in 8 oz of warm (body temp) water. Irrigate both nostrils bid and continue for several weeks. Be gentle, follow the directions. I like the Mayo Clinic's video for easy how to. You will be amazed. There is EBM for this. If you don't improve, there are other cards that can be played in a step wise more aggressive fashion. But start there. I hope you'll feel better very soon. Sinus crap can be miserable. Take care,

Kathleen

I probably can't get the book for awhile, but I personally have been having some nasty sinus infection and allergy related issues the past few months.... Might you be able to share the exact Formula and dosing and the like, and the place you order from... It sounds like a possible solution.... How much do these custom things tend to run??? No coverage right now.... Thanks

To: Sent: Fri, October 8, 2010 1:13:35 PMSubject: Re: Re: functional medicine - toxic mold

I have had great success opening up people sinuses and preventing further infection w Acupuncture. They come back every month and are very happy. No more ab and congestion. There is a reference in Rakel Integrative Medincine book to a compounded nasal sray of bactorban, stroid and anti fungal. I have not Rx it yet but waiting for my first pt.....

very interesting. ill share this with patient and maybe have her try it... im ready to try anything she says... and im willing to help her on this one. thanksgrace

> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>

There's an ENT here in Denver who specializes in sinusitis caused by> > > >> molds. Once he determines this is the problem, he advises the patient> > to> > > >> hire a company that cleans up their home in a "green" manner. He's had> > > >> great success. Offered me a job once, although it sounded really> > boring,> > > >> seeing patients in his "mold" program. I don't remember that he uses> > any> > > >> supplements -- since he was convinced that this mold, which is really> > common> > > >> at this altitude and humidity, was the cause of the problem most of> > the> > > >> time. I can't remember the name of the mold, but I could find out for> > you,> > > >> if you need to know, and the name of the company he advises people to> >

use.> > > >> He thinks our "better" construction methods, which make for very> > > >> energy-efficient air-tight houses, are most of the problem.> > > >>> > > >> Deanna Tolman, FNP> > > >> Aurora, CO> > > >>> > > >> In a message dated 10/6/2010 11:22:02 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,> > > >> tagabanawa@ writes:> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> just wanting to know if anyone out there knows mech of action for> > toxic> > > >> mold .. stachybotrys etc and how to counteract neurotoxins etc through> > > >> nutritional supplements..> > > >> grace> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > >>

>> > > >>

-- M.D.www.elainemd.comOffice: Go in the directions of your dreams and live the life you've imagined.This email transmission may contain protected and privileged, highly confidential medical, Personal and Health Information (PHI) and/or legal information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient of this material, you may not use, publish, discuss, disseminate or otherwise distribute it. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and

confidentially destroy the information that email in error.

October 8, 2010

Just to add: use non-iodized salt (I'm too cheap to buy or recommend the pre-mixed packets, but other IMP's swear by them for having correct ratio and being easy to use).

I have the Rakel book and I don't believe it has the " recipe " for the next step rinse. From what I remember from the integrative medicine course, you could buy it from somewhere, but I don't recall the recipe being given out. I'll snoop around though. Anyone have it?

SharonSharon McCoy MDRenaissance Family Medicine10 McClintock Court; Irvine, CA 92617PH: (949)387-5504 Fax: (949)281-2197 Toll free phone/fax: www.SharonMD.com

Oh I'm already an avid nose rinser... I have had sinus issues for years and my left tube likes to clog up easily just enough to be painful, interfere with good hearing (which stinks already as a previous Rock Musician and Audio Engineer) and more recently pretty upsetting headaches with sinuses even make teeth somewhat sensative. We have way too many furry quadrapeds in our home, both feline and canine no less the litter boxes (yes plural) for the fleet... And this part of the country is not kind to sinuses as the this part of the Great Lakes has lots of general moisture and interesting mixes of pollen thru various seasons... It was my dentist recently that pegged my low level, not enough to think I was sick infection as one problematic upper jaw tooth became incredibly sensative and so I thought it's crown was loose... He took an X-Ray of the section of my mouth and showed my just how inflamed my sinuses were just above there and Rx'ed a round of Anti-Biotics and there went the majority of my headaches about a week later as the infection started to wane... And now I picked up something new from or a patient, kids back to school and all my symptoms of mild nausa, bothersome ears, left much worse than right, and the nasty headaches have all returned... As a matter of fact I am feeling rather crumby right now....

But thanks for the advice as I understand the idea of mild therapies before more intense ones and nasal cleanliness does certainly help.... I've just got a big sensitive honker...

To:

Sent: Fri, October 8, 2010 3:59:13 PM

Subject: Re: Re: functional medicine - toxic mold

, First run don't walk to the drug store, buy one of those sinus irrigating bottles. NeilMed makes them, they cost less than $10. Don't spend money on the packets. Mix your own solution with 1/2 teaspoon table salt and 1/2 half baking soda in 8 oz of warm (body temp) water. Irrigate both nostrils bid and continue for several weeks. Be gentle, follow the directions. I like the Mayo Clinic's video for easy how to. You will be amazed. There is EBM for this. If you don't improve, there are other cards that can be played in a step wise more aggressive fashion. But start there. I hope you'll feel better very soon. Sinus crap can be miserable. Take care,

Kathleen

I probably can't get the book for awhile, but I personally have been having some nasty sinus infection and allergy related issues the past few months.... Might you be able to share the exact Formula and dosing and the like, and the place you order from... It sounds like a possible solution.... How much do these custom things tend to run??? No coverage right now.... Thanks

From: To:

Sent: Fri, October 8, 2010 1:13:35 PMSubject: Re: Re: functional medicine - toxic mold

I have had great success opening up people sinuses and preventing further infection w Acupuncture. They come back every month and are very happy. No more ab and congestion. There is a reference in Rakel Integrative Medincine book to a compounded nasal sray of bactorban, stroid and anti fungal. I have not Rx it yet but waiting for my first pt.....

On Thu, Oct 7, 2010 at 7:19 PM, pricklyfinger2007 wrote:

very interesting. ill share this with patient and maybe have her try it... im ready to try anything she says... and im willing to help her on this one. thanksgrace

> > > >> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> There's an ENT here in Denver who specializes in sinusitis caused by

> > > >> molds. Once he determines this is the problem, he advises the patient> > to> > > >> hire a company that cleans up their home in a " green " manner. He's had

> > > >> great success. Offered me a job once, although it sounded really> > boring,> > > >> seeing patients in his " mold " program. I don't remember that he uses

> > any> > > >> supplements -- since he was convinced that this mold, which is really> > common> > > >> at this altitude and humidity, was the cause of the problem most of

> > the> > > >> time. I can't remember the name of the mold, but I could find out for> > you,> > > >> if you need to know, and the name of the company he advises people to

> > use.> > > >> He thinks our " better " construction methods, which make for very> > > >> energy-efficient air-tight houses, are most of the problem.> > > >>

> > > >> Deanna Tolman, FNP> > > >> Aurora, CO> > > >>> > > >> In a message dated 10/6/2010 11:22:02 P.M. Mountain Daylight Time,> > > >> tagabanawa@ writes:

> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> just wanting to know if anyone out there knows mech of action for> > toxic> > > >> mold .. stachybotrys etc and how to counteract neurotoxins etc through

> > > >> nutritional supplements..> > > >> grace> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > >> >> >

> >>

-- M.D.www.elainemd.com

Office: Go in the directions of your dreams and live the life you've imagined.This email transmission may contain protected and privileged, highly confidential medical, Personal and Health Information (PHI) and/or legal information. The information is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above.

If you are not the intended recipient of this material, you may not use, publish, discuss, disseminate or otherwise distribute it. If you are not the intended recipient, or if you have received this transmission in error, please notify the sender immediately and confidentially destroy the information that email in error.

October 9, 2010

I've found with both myself and my patients, compliance is a lot higher when using the packets. That being said, I think the make your own solution works fine but nothing works if you dont use it. Packets are only about 10 cents a shot so still only about 5 bucks a month if using 1-2 times daily.