Re: Doctor's / dietists not 'the big bad wolf'

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 99-05-05 15:17:06 EDT, you write:

<< I don't think that we should get to 'religous' about these questions, -

but draw from both sources. With time comes the experience that makes it

possible for us to deal individually with our disease and to choose what fits

into our individual situation. I don't think that it is good if newly

diagnosed diabetics gets the impression that anything that comes from doctors

and dietists are wrong. Don't you think that's wrong? >>

JOHN: I think the policy here is that all are giving ADVISE based on their

own experiences. I would NEVER, NEVER do anything without first going to my

doctor. No matter how good we get at knowing the disease we are NOT doctors.

If you think your doctor is wrong, talk to them. If not satisfied, get a

new doctor BUT don't base your health on what we say here. If you do you

might find out that what is GREAT for one, simply doesn't work for another.

I respect my doctor and thus trust him to do the right thing for me. Most

doctors and nurses KNOW diabetes and its complications and how to treat it.

I went to my neurologist who treats me for chronic pain in both feet and legs

due to neuropathy because of diabetes. I am in pain all the time. On the

internet I gathered alot of articles about how morphine tablets could be used

to control the pain. And as far as getting hook, it said chronic pain people

do not get hook. Well, I laid it all out to my doctor and he said he was not

worried about me getting hooked. Said I wasn't the type. What he was

worried about was that after using " morphine " my body would need more and

more to keep the pain at the same level. Said the dose would have to be

increased and maybe more side effects. So it wasn't that I couldn't use

morphine, it was to my best NOT to and keep trying other medications. My doc

wasn't mad at me for using the internet but said I had to be careful to get

the RIGHT information! He said EVERY ONE IS DIFFERENT!

From now on I run EVERY THING by my doctors. The 3 I have right now have not

been wrong yet. AND

God's Speed.

***Robin***

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 5/5/99 2:16:44 PM US Eastern Standard Time,

norgaard@... writes:

<<

I don't think that it is good if newly diagnosed diabetics gets the

impression that anything that comes from doctors and dietists are wrong.

Don't you think that's wrong?

Begards

norgaard@...

>>

,

I agree with you, I rely on my doctor as part of my health care team.

I did some research before I started to go to him. I think that is important

even if your not diabetic. I feel we should be envolved in our health care

as part of a team....

Good point !

Merry

[Guest guest]

and Robin.

Thank you, thank you!!!!!!!!

Wise words!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Oluf

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----

Fra: RSMYTH1000@...

Til: diabetes_intonelist <diabetes_intonelist>

Dato: 6. maj 1999 00:46

Emne: Re: Doctor's / dietists not 'the big bad wolf'

>From: RSMYTH1000@...

>

>In a message dated 99-05-05 15:17:06 EDT, you write:

>

><< I don't think that we should get to 'religous' about these questions, -

>but draw from both sources. With time comes the experience that makes it

>possible for us to deal individually with our disease and to choose what fits

>into our individual situation. I don't think that it is good if newly

>diagnosed diabetics gets the impression that anything that comes from doctors

>and dietists are wrong. Don't you think that's wrong? >>

>

>JOHN: I think the policy here is that all are giving ADVISE based on their

>own experiences. I would NEVER, NEVER do anything without first going to my

>doctor. No matter how good we get at knowing the disease we are NOT doctors.

> If you think your doctor is wrong, talk to them. If not satisfied, get a

>new doctor BUT don't base your health on what we say here. If you do you

>might find out that what is GREAT for one, simply doesn't work for another.

>I respect my doctor and thus trust him to do the right thing for me. Most

>doctors and nurses KNOW diabetes and its complications and how to treat it.

>

>I went to my neurologist who treats me for chronic pain in both feet and legs

>due to neuropathy because of diabetes. I am in pain all the time. On the

>internet I gathered alot of articles about how morphine tablets could be used

>to control the pain. And as far as getting hook, it said chronic pain people

>do not get hook. Well, I laid it all out to my doctor and he said he was not

>worried about me getting hooked. Said I wasn't the type. What he was

>worried about was that after using " morphine " my body would need more and

>more to keep the pain at the same level. Said the dose would have to be

>increased and maybe more side effects. So it wasn't that I couldn't use

>morphine, it was to my best NOT to and keep trying other medications. My doc

>wasn't mad at me for using the internet but said I had to be careful to get

>the RIGHT information! He said EVERY ONE IS DIFFERENT!

>

>>From now on I run EVERY THING by my doctors. The 3 I have right now have not

>been wrong yet. AND

>

>God's Speed.

>***Robin***

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Congratulations to TOWERSHIGH, our latest ONElist of the Week.

>http://www.onelist.com

>Visit our homepage and share with us how ONElist is changing YOUR life!

[Guest guest]

Norgaard wrote:

>

>

>

> Dear members,

>

> I would just like to comment on this issue, because someone has been newly

diagnosed with diabetes on this

> list and they may be further confused, if they get the impression that all

doctors and dietists have got it all wrong. Well, they haven't. Who discovered

the insuline? Who did the excellent work of developing tablets that made it

possible with oral treatment of diabetes? I respect the knowledge that the

specialists at the diabetes section of our hospital have. They aren't just

ignorant as regards to this disease. Therefore any advice to newly diagnosed

diabetics that they shouldn't at all listen to their doctor or dietist are, in

my opinion, is not good advice.

>

> I don't think that we should get to 'religous' about these questions, - but

draw from both sources. With time comes the experience that makes it possible

for us to deal individually with our disease and to choose what fits into our

individual situation.

>

> I don't think that it is good if newly diagnosed diabetics gets the impression

that anything that comes from doctors and dietists are wrong. Don't you think

that's wrong?

You're absolutely right on the mark ! While there is much

information to be talked about regarding diabetes, everyone's body is

different. While there are some professionals that are just not up to

date with the latest advances, for a lay person to tell someone that

their doctor should be disregarded is not correct, IMHO. We have to be

very careful of information gleaned from the Internet as not all can be

taken as gospel. Unfortunately, some believe that anything they read on

the Internet must be right. I do agree in many cases that a person must

make a choice, based on information they have read, and success stories

by others, and do what is best for themselves.

--

Dave -- May 5, 1999

t2 08/98 Glucophage & Aspartame

Davor's daily aphorism:

I find myself beside a stream of empty thought

----------------------------------------------------------------

[Guest guest]

Hi again Robin.

Good to hear from you. We should all keep your statement in mind.

Having neuropathia is certainly not nice. The problem of morfica is that they

also lead to obstipation / or may aggrevate an obstipation due to neuropathia of

the stomach (slowering of the emptying) and deminishing bowl motility.

Treating this is a " journey between Scylla and Carybdis " . Despite that there

are other possibilities to help you. I trust your doc will do, what's possible

anyway.

Good luck.

Oluf

[Guest guest]

Amen.

Thanks, D.D. Orcutt.

Oluf

[Guest guest]

,

I agree that we should not be ignoring the Doctor's or Dietitian's advice. What

I believe is called for here, is a willingness to examine the evidence of

control within one's own body. This is a highly personal responsibility, which

should include frequent self-monitoring of BGs. The impact of any regimen, from

any source, on our BGs, our Lipids, our Electrolytes, etc., should be carefully

watched.

Because of the " YMMV " issues surrounding this disease, it is impossible to

succeed by ignorance. Every new DMer ought to be encouraged to gain BG control

by 1) Diet, 2) Exercise, 3) Weight Correction, 4) Medications. All of these are

important in someone's life. We cannot say that any specific one is " ideal " as

we are all different and our individual control is achieved by some

" combination " of the items above. It is obvious, that the " best " regimen is the

one that provides the 1) Best Nutrition possible, 2) Ideal Exercises an

individual is capable of doing

consistently, 3) attaining and maintaining the Best BMI possible, 4) Using the

least amount of medication required. Notice that I have carefully avoided the

terms indicating " perfection " in any of these categories. The best attainable

level in each category should the goal for each and every one of us.

If we take our personal responsibility seriously, there will be no room for

ignorance or ignoring sound counsel, whether that comes from a Doctor, a

Dietitian, or from a fellow list member.

Rick

T2 D & E 01/99 (Still NEW) )

Norgaard wrote:

>

>

> Dear members,

>

> I would just like to comment on this issue, because someone has been newly

diagnosed with diabetes on this

> list and they may be further confused, if they get the impression that all

doctors and dietists have got it all wrong. Well, they haven't. Who discovered

the insuline? Who did the excellent work of developing tablets that made it

possible with oral treatment of diabetes? I respect the knowledge that the

specialists at the diabetes section of our hospital have. They aren't just

ignorant as regards to this disease. Therefore any advice to newly diagnosed

diabetics that they shouldn't at all listen to their doctor or dietist are, in

my opinion, is not good advice.

>

> I don't think that we should get to 'religous' about these questions, - but

draw from both sources. With time comes the experience that makes it possible

for us to deal individually with our disease and to choose what fits into our

individual situation.

>

> I don't think that it is good if newly diagnosed diabetics gets the impression

that anything that comes from doctors and dietists are wrong. Don't you think

that's wrong?

>

> Begards

>

>

> norgaard@...

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ONElist: bringing the world together.

> http://www.onelist.com

> Join today!

--

" There IS no spoon! "

[Guest guest]

Rick, and others.

I'm really glad, you brought this up , and that you had so many sensible

replies.

This is important to keep in mind in our discussions here in this list, as we

have no docs or other specialists on diabetes in the list, unfortunately.

With this pointed out to ALL of us, it must also be said that sometimes it seems

that newly diagnosed patients really got *no* support and only scarce or random

information.

Some years ago I develloped a training for general physicians on how to deal

with patients at " the moment of trouth " , when diagnosis is expressed to the

patient. In the devellopment phase I had a series of seminars with newly

diagnosed DM Type-2s in collaboration with the Danish Diabetic Association.

Very often the diagnosis of, especially DM Type-2 comes as a big surprize,

though I learned that some patients bring a urine-sample " just in case " ~they

have a more or less verified suspicion coming to the doctor. In those ( most)

cases this diagnosis comes as a shock, probably due to the " silent " , sneeking

devellopment. In that situation I also learned that it is useless to start

presenting " do this- don't do that " at that moment, as patients are not mentally

fit for it. First comes a psychological crises-phase/ and thearpy before one

can assume the whole diabtic program.

In that interim phase many newly diagnosed appear in the list, it appears to.

Oluf