Re: nighttime insulin

[Guest guest]

Hi, Barb, we'll I'm pleased to find another LADA on this list (latent

autoimmune diabetes in adults is what it stands for).

My BG at 10 p.m. last night was 111 and I again chickened out and had a very

small -- about four gulps -- of lowfat (1%) milk. Woke up at 1:20, checked BG

and it was 99. Went back to sleep. Awoke at 4 a.m and couldn't go back to

sleep, gave up at 5 and got up. Checked BG at 5:30 - it was 110. Fine. No

breakfast, no shots, no pills. Went for walk, (both level and hills) and

came back 45 minutes later. checked BG at 6:30 a.m.. It was 145! After walk!

(This is very often my BG at 6:30 a.m.)

I do Tai Chi with a group on Saturday morning and afterwards we go for brunch

so I just had a piece of rye toast and tea to hold me til 10 a.m...real

breakfast is then, which is when I'll take my lispro.

Yes, you need a prescription for lispro. (But I get a prescription for NPH

too, otherwise my insurance doesn't cover it). Vicki

In a message dated 99-05-29 09:45:21 EDT, you write:

<< . And yes, I am also a type 1 1/2 and had no

idea there was a name for it, LADA. What does it stand for?

Well, since we're so alike, I will say that I take 13 NPH in the a.m.

and

15 NPH at night. Susie, has suggested going to a longer L or UL to me too,

and I'm scared, because I know what this does. Something about fear of the

unknown, eh? Plus, I'd maybe have to start doing R at lunch. Haven't

tried the Lispro yet. It requires a prescription, doesn't it? Keep

forgetting, but it does sound a little more convenient. In any event, the

regular insulin doesn't last in your body as long as some carbs, and more

NPH at night would solve that. If the lowest you got at 2 a.m. was 95, I

think you have plenty of room to up your NPH, which would take care of the

longer staying carbs. >>

[Guest guest]

Susie,

If my glucose is high I will get up and exercise for a few minutes and check

again and it will have dropped sometimes as much as twenty points,is this not

normal.

[Guest guest]

Vicki writes:

<< ... Woke up at 1:20, checked BG and it was 99. Went back to sleep. Awoke at 4

a.m and couldn't go back to

sleep, gave up at 5 and got up. Checked BG at 5:30 - it was 110. Fine. No

breakfast, no shots, no pills. Went for walk, (both level and hills) and came

back 45 minutes later. checked BG at 6:30 a.m.. It was 145! After walk!

(This is very often my BG at 6:30 a.m.) >>

Some things that may be influencing that 6:30 reading ...

* The " rooster effect, " whereby insulin levels rise naturally, along with other

changes in your cirdadian rhythms, to prepare the body to greet the day.

* Your previous night's insulin wore off. Solutions would be to switch to L or

to increase the units of the nighttime injection.

* If you exerted yourself pretty strenuously during the walk, your glucose

levels can climb. It is your body " feeding " hard-working muscles. The glucose

that was in storage is now circulating in the bloodstream, heading to places

where it is needed the most.

Susie

[Guest guest]

And yes, I am also a type 1 1/2 and had no

idea there was a name for it, LADA. What does it stand for?

What is a type 1 1/2? I know what type 2 and type 1 are but have not

come across type 1 1/2. Excuse my ignorance.

Heller

[Guest guest]

My BG at 10 p.m. last night was 111 and I again chickened out and had a

very

small -- about four gulps -- of lowfat (1%) milk. Woke up at 1:20,

checked BG

and it was 99. Went back to sleep. Awoke at 4 a.m and couldn't go back

to

sleep, gave up at 5 and got up. Checked BG at 5:30 - it was 110. Fine.

No

breakfast, no shots, no pills. Went for walk, (both level and hills)

and

came back 45 minutes later. checked BG at 6:30 a.m.. It was 145! After

walk!

(This is very often my BG at 6:30 a.m.)

I know this is probably not the right answer but is your meter correct?

I checked this morning and my BG was 133. I checked again from the other

hand and it was 113. I use the Accucheck Simplicity. I am not sure I am

getting correct readings. How can there be a 20 point variation in a

matter of minutes? I am considering another meter. What do you think?

[Guest guest]

Heller writes:

<< ... How can there be a 20 point variation in a matter of minutes? I am

considering another meter. >>

We just had a long discussion of this in another diabetes group. Suggestions

included checking your meter often with the calibrator, taking a blood

thinner to make sure you are getting enough blood for an accurate reading

(someone suggested two quick pokes, and draw some blood from each poke), and

a few techniques suggested for the best way to wick the blood onto the pad.

The meters have been rated for accuracy, and none of them is perfect. That

is an excellent explanation for what was going on with Vicki.

Blood thinners are also helpful in preventing heart attacks and strokes. I

learned that piece of news too late. I'll try to remember to hunt up those

posts and post here.

Susie

[Guest guest]

writes:

<< If my glucose is high I will get up and exercise for a few minutes and

check

again and it will have dropped sometimes as much as twenty points,is this

not

normal. >>

Yes that is normal, . Some diabetics have, however, reported that when

they exercise very strenuously, their glucose can actually increase. Because

what we measure is the glucose circulating in the bloodstream. And that

level can increase as the glucose comes out of storage and heads for muscles

that are overworked from exercise, to replenish them.

A similar event occurs when some type 2's begin low-carbing. Their body is

not producing as much cholesterol because their insulin levels drop, so

cholesterol that has been held in storage comes out to make up the

difference, and it can be reflected as elevated cholesterol, because the

blood tests measure what is in the bloodstream, not in storage.

Susie

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 99-05-29 11:51:19 EDT, you write:

<< If you exerted yourself pretty strenuously during the walk, your glucose

levels can climb. It is your body " feeding " hard-working muscles. The glucose

that was in storage is now circulating in the bloodstream, heading to places

where it is needed the most. >>

No, I wouldn't say strenuously...very SMALL short hill(s)...more of a " rise, "

really. I didn't even break a sweat. V.

[Guest guest]

, LADA stands for " latent autoimmune diabetes in adults, " otherwise

known as " type 1-1/2 " , Yesterday I sent a post that quoted some information

about it. Unfortunately I don't save my posts but if anyone else saved it,

perhaps they could post it again. If necessary I'll retype it. (Wish I had a

scanner!) Vicki

[Guest guest]

In a message dated 99-05-29 12:24:21 EDT, you write:

<< know this is probably not the right answer but is your meter correct?

I checked this morning and my BG was 133. I checked again from the other

hand and it was 113. I use the Accucheck Simplicity. I am not sure I am

getting correct readings. How can there be a 20 point variation in a

matter of minutes? I am considering another meter. What do you think? >>

I use a LifeScan Sure Step meter. I was warned not to do two readings in a

row (unless I hypo'ed and had to take glucose tab and recheck in 15 minutes),

that they would inevitably be different. I was also told there's a 16% margin

for error, which would probably account for the difference. Vicki

[Guest guest]

Vicki said:

<< From: WHIMSY2@...

Oops, message got sent before I could type the quote about LADA so here it

is:

" LADA (latent autoimmune diabetes in adults) is a form of autoimmune

diabetes

that starts in adulthood instead of childhood. It is nothing more than type

1

diabetes starting slowly after the age of 30-35. In general LADAs are not

overweight, have no family history of NIDDM, may or may not have family

history of IDDM, do not put on weight at the time of diagnosis -- as a

matter

of fact, some of them may even lose weight at that time -- and they tend to

have higher BGs from the beginning....15-20% of all diabetic adults may have

LADA nad LADA may constitute as much as 50% of the non-obese adult onset

diabetes. This form of diabetes is sometimes known as 'type 1-1/2' " .

This fits me to a T. So I'm not a 1 or 2 but a little of both - type 1-1/2.

Anyone else on this list LADA? >>

[Guest guest]

I'm not sure if I fall into that group, but I think so. No history in my

family, not overweight. I was 23 when I got it and now I'm 31. The DR.

figured stress and trauma had a lot to do with it. Anyone else have that

experience?

OtterCritter wrote:

>

>

>

> Vicki said:

>

> << From: WHIMSY2@...

>

> Oops, message got sent before I could type the quote about LADA so here it

> is:

>

> " LADA (latent autoimmune diabetes in adults) is a form of autoimmune

> diabetes

> that starts in adulthood instead of childhood. It is nothing more than type

> 1

> diabetes starting slowly after the age of 30-35. In general LADAs are not

> overweight, have no family history of NIDDM, may or may not have family

> history of IDDM, do not put on weight at the time of diagnosis -- as a

> matter

> of fact, some of them may even lose weight at that time -- and they tend to

> have higher BGs from the beginning....15-20% of all diabetic adults may have

> LADA nad LADA may constitute as much as 50% of the non-obese adult onset

> diabetes. This form of diabetes is sometimes known as 'type 1-1/2' " .

>

> This fits me to a T. So I'm not a 1 or 2 but a little of both - type 1-1/2.

> Anyone else on this list LADA? >>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ONElist: where real people with real interests get connected.

> http://www.onelist.com

> Join a new list today!

[Guest guest]

Please remove me from your list

[Guest guest]

By a blood thinner, do you mean the daily aspirin or some other form? I

included an aspirin in my routine and I have a much easier time

extracting blood now. I used to have a hard time with it but the

diabetic nurse gave me some hints and they are very helpful. With the

Accucheck Simplicity, I found that the reading is lower when I saturate

the pad. My diabetic nurse does not like the machine I am using and gave

me another one that uses less blood. It is the Accucheck Advantage but I

have about 50 sticks left and do not want to waste them. (cheapo me!) I

figure that I will move to the new machine next month. I will let you

know if it is more user friendly.

Heller

OtterCritter wrote:

>

>

>

> Heller writes:

>

> << ... How can there be a 20 point variation in a matter of minutes? I am

> considering another meter. >>

>

> We just had a long discussion of this in another diabetes group. Suggestions

> included checking your meter often with the calibrator, taking a blood

> thinner to make sure you are getting enough blood for an accurate reading

> (someone suggested two quick pokes, and draw some blood from each poke), and

> a few techniques suggested for the best way to wick the blood onto the pad.

> The meters have been rated for accuracy, and none of them is perfect. That

> is an excellent explanation for what was going on with Vicki.

>

> Blood thinners are also helpful in preventing heart attacks and strokes. I

> learned that piece of news too late. I'll try to remember to hunt up those

> posts and post here.

>

> Susie

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ONElist: where the world talks!

> http://www.onelist.com

> Join a new list today.

[Guest guest]

Thanks for the information. When I was first diagnosed with diabetes, I

was in the dentist office and there was a young couple with a baby. She

was called in first and the husband and I started talking about her. He

told me that she had Crone's disease and as a result of the medication,

she had developed diabetes. She was young, thin and no history of

diabetes in the family. I am sure she would be considered a Type 1 1/2.

I remember thinking to myself " What a bummer! " because at the time I was

still in shock myself. Now, I am really doing well and feel sooooo much

better.

On one of my other lists, a very nice lady sent out a low carb cookbook.

It imports into Mastercook and is a Word file. I have it saved as a text

file and can send it to anyone. I have not thorougly gone through it but

there are 806 recipes. I tried to print it out and it is 325 pages!!! If

you want it, please let me know and I will forward it to you. It is

really something. Please write me privately and I will send it.

Heller

OtterCritter wrote:

>

>

>

> Vicki said:

>

> << From: WHIMSY2@...

>

> Oops, message got sent before I could type the quote about LADA so here it

> is:

>

> " LADA (latent autoimmune diabetes in adults) is a form of autoimmune

> diabetes

> that starts in adulthood instead of childhood. It is nothing more than type

> 1

> diabetes starting slowly after the age of 30-35. In general LADAs are not

> overweight, have no family history of NIDDM, may or may not have family

> history of IDDM, do not put on weight at the time of diagnosis -- as a

> matter

> of fact, some of them may even lose weight at that time -- and they tend to

> have higher BGs from the beginning....15-20% of all diabetic adults may have

> LADA nad LADA may constitute as much as 50% of the non-obese adult onset

> diabetes. This form of diabetes is sometimes known as 'type 1-1/2' " .

>

> This fits me to a T. So I'm not a 1 or 2 but a little of both - type 1-1/2.

> Anyone else on this list LADA? >>

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ONElist: where real people with real interests get connected.

> http://www.onelist.com

> Join a new list today!

[Guest guest]

Stress and trauma! Wow, that is really a shame. It is amazing what

stress can do to our bodies. Thank you for explaining the difference

between type 1 1/2 and type 2. It all makes sense now.

Heller

Harms wrote:

>

>

>

> I'm not sure if I fall into that group, but I think so. No history in my

> family, not overweight. I was 23 when I got it and now I'm 31. The DR.

> figured stress and trauma had a lot to do with it. Anyone else have that

> experience?

>

> OtterCritter wrote:

> >

> >

> >

> > Vicki said:

> >

> > << From: WHIMSY2@...

> >

> > Oops, message got sent before I could type the quote about LADA so here it

> > is:

> >

> > " LADA (latent autoimmune diabetes in adults) is a form of autoimmune

> > diabetes

> > that starts in adulthood instead of childhood. It is nothing more than type

> > 1

> > diabetes starting slowly after the age of 30-35. In general LADAs are not

> > overweight, have no family history of NIDDM, may or may not have family

> > history of IDDM, do not put on weight at the time of diagnosis -- as a

> > matter

> > of fact, some of them may even lose weight at that time -- and they tend to

> > have higher BGs from the beginning....15-20% of all diabetic adults may have

> > LADA nad LADA may constitute as much as 50% of the non-obese adult onset

> > diabetes. This form of diabetes is sometimes known as 'type 1-1/2' " .

> >

> > This fits me to a T. So I'm not a 1 or 2 but a little of both - type 1-1/2.

> > Anyone else on this list LADA? >>

> >

> > ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> > ONElist: where real people with real interests get connected.

> > http://www.onelist.com

> > Join a new list today!

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> Having difficulty getting " in synch " with list members?

> http://www.onelist.com

> Try ONElist's Shared Calendar to organize events, meetings and more!

[Guest guest]

Vicky. The rise in your BG after walking is probably due to a beginning lack of

basic/background insulin, as you did not take that in the morning. By the way,

you wirte of no pills also??????

I thought you stopped pills - and only had insulin now????????

That makes quite a difference.

Oluf

PS. Also a few months ago, I think we agreed on the basic definitions and origin

of your DM by which you are a Type-2, insulin dependant.

Your type of diabetes is NOT an autoimmune proces like in Type-1 (+/- LADA).

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----

Fra: WHIMSY2@...

Til: diabetes_intonelist <diabetes_intonelist>

Dato: 29. maj 1999 17:43

Emne: Re: nighttime insulin

>From: WHIMSY2@...

>

>Hi, Barb, we'll I'm pleased to find another LADA on this list (latent

>autoimmune diabetes in adults is what it stands for).

>

>My BG at 10 p.m. last night was 111 and I again chickened out and had a very

>small -- about four gulps -- of lowfat (1%) milk. Woke up at 1:20, checked BG

>and it was 99. Went back to sleep. Awoke at 4 a.m and couldn't go back to

>sleep, gave up at 5 and got up. Checked BG at 5:30 - it was 110. Fine. No

>breakfast, no shots, no pills. Went for walk, (both level and hills) and

>came back 45 minutes later. checked BG at 6:30 a.m.. It was 145! After walk!

>(This is very often my BG at 6:30 a.m.)

>

>I do Tai Chi with a group on Saturday morning and afterwards we go for brunch

>so I just had a piece of rye toast and tea to hold me til 10 a.m...real

>breakfast is then, which is when I'll take my lispro.

>

>Yes, you need a prescription for lispro. (But I get a prescription for NPH

>too, otherwise my insurance doesn't cover it). Vicki

>

>In a message dated 99-05-29 09:45:21 EDT, you write:

>

><< . And yes, I am also a type 1 1/2 and had no

> idea there was a name for it, LADA. What does it stand for?

>

> Well, since we're so alike, I will say that I take 13 NPH in the a.m.

>and

> 15 NPH at night. Susie, has suggested going to a longer L or UL to me too,

> and I'm scared, because I know what this does. Something about fear of the

> unknown, eh? Plus, I'd maybe have to start doing R at lunch. Haven't

> tried the Lispro yet. It requires a prescription, doesn't it? Keep

> forgetting, but it does sound a little more convenient. In any event, the

> regular insulin doesn't last in your body as long as some carbs, and more

> NPH at night would solve that. If the lowest you got at 2 a.m. was 95, I

> think you have plenty of room to up your NPH, which would take care of the

> longer staying carbs. >>

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>ONElist: the best source for group communications.

>http://www.onelist.com

>Join a new list today!

[Guest guest]

- it isn't!

If you were a DM type-2, treated with diat, excercise and oral meds, now on

insulin alone or as supplement, doesn't make you a type 1,5 nor a LADA. You are

type-2 still. Your type is of another origin than type-1 (+/- LADA), please see

my post on LADA.

Oluf

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----

Fra: Heller

Til: diabetes_intonelist <diabetes_intonelist>

Dato: 29. maj 1999 18:20

Emne: Re: nighttime insulin

>

>

>And yes, I am also a type 1 1/2 and had no

>idea there was a name for it, LADA. What does it stand for?

>

>What is a type 1 1/2? I know what type 2 and type 1 are but have not

>come across type 1 1/2. Excuse my ignorance.

>

> Heller

>

>------------------------------------------------------------------------

>Give back to your community through " Grow to Give. "

>http://www.ONElist.com

>See homepage for details.

[Guest guest]

Metervariations are normal, and your's would probably be OK.

Next time you go to the doc for a check-up, bring your meter. When he checks

your BG make a BG-ckeck from the same sample, as he does, on your own meter to

compair. If the results are within acceptable range of the meters, you are OK.

Oluf

[Guest guest]

Heller writes:

<< By a blood thinner, do you mean the daily aspirin or some other form? I

included an aspirin in my routine and I have a much easier time extracting

blood now. >>

Yes, aspirin is what I had in mind (although there are others). As little as

a 1/4 dose (81 mg eneric-coated pills) can be helpful in thinning the blood

and helping decrease heart attack risk for type 2 diabetics, who are prone

to having sticky blood platelets.

Susie

[Guest guest]

Thanks, Yes I know that I am type 2. I saw the post and it was very

informative.

OLUF JOHNSSON wrote:

>

> From: Metaforum-sson@... (OLUF JOHNSSON)

>

> - it isn't!

> If you were a DM type-2, treated with diat, excercise and oral meds, now on

insulin alone or as supplement, doesn't make you a type 1,5 nor a LADA. You are

type-2 still. Your type is of another origin than type-1 (+/- LADA), please see

my post on LADA.

> Oluf

> -----Oprindelig meddelelse-----

> Fra: Heller

> Til: diabetes_intonelist <diabetes_intonelist>

> Dato: 29. maj 1999 18:20

> Emne: Re: nighttime insulin

>

> >

> >

> >And yes, I am also a type 1 1/2 and had no

> >idea there was a name for it, LADA. What does it stand for?

> >

> >What is a type 1 1/2? I know what type 2 and type 1 are but have not

> >come across type 1 1/2. Excuse my ignorance.

> >

> > Heller

> >

> >------------------------------------------------------------------------

> >Give back to your community through " Grow to Give. "

> >http://www.ONElist.com

> >See homepage for details.

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

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[Guest guest]

My PCP suggested a baby aspirin a day! Toni

OtterCritter wrote:

>

>

> Heller writes:

>

> << ... How can there be a 20 point variation in a matter of minutes? I am

> considering another meter. >>

>

> We just had a long discussion of this in another diabetes group. Suggestions

> included checking your meter often with the calibrator, taking a blood

> thinner to make sure you are getting enough blood for an accurate reading

> (someone suggested two quick pokes, and draw some blood from each poke), and

> a few techniques suggested for the best way to wick the blood onto the pad.

> The meters have been rated for accuracy, and none of them is perfect. That

> is an excellent explanation for what was going on with Vicki.

>

> Blood thinners are also helpful in preventing heart attacks and strokes. I

> learned that piece of news too late. I'll try to remember to hunt up those

> posts and post here.

>

> Susie

>

> ------------------------------------------------------------------------

> ONElist: where the world talks!

> http://www.onelist.com

> Join a new list today.

[Guest guest]

Barb and Vicky.

Why do you consider changing from NPH to L or UL? - if you are Ok, maybe with a

little adjustments as it is now?

L or UL works much longer, this may be easier in some ways, but bring drawbacks

in others, if you are so anxious about hypos. Its the more complicated to treat

a hypo the longer-acting insulin you use!

What do your docs say?

Oluf

[Guest guest]

Mine was diagnosed after a mild bout of flu. Vicki

<< The DR.

figured stress and trauma had a lot to do with it. Anyone else have that

experience?

>>

[Guest guest]

I stopped taking my sulfonurea completely. And I cut back by 500 mg. on the

Glucophage but I'm still taking 2000 units of that, 1000 morning and 1000

evening. My insulin needs went up dramatically after cutting out my

lunchtime dose of Glucophage so I decided as long as my insurance covers it,

I'll keep on taking it.

In a message dated 99-05-30 08:23:54 EDT, you write:

<< By the way, you wirte of no pills also??????

I thought you stopped pills - and only had insulin now????????

That makes quite a difference.

Oluf

Sorry I didn't keep that post. I do remember discussion but don't remember

your answer. But the definition I posted of LADA does fit me to a T and

remember, my doc said I had a " smoldering type I " which I think was his way

of saying type 1-1/2 (but I'll ask him when I see him next). Further,

wouldn't the fact that I have two other autoimmune disorders - hypothyroidism

and Sjogren's -- indicate a propensity for autoimmune disease? Vicki

PS. Also a few months ago, I think we agreed on the basic definitions and

origin of your DM by which you are a Type-2, insulin dependant.

Your type of diabetes is NOT an autoimmune proces like in Type-1 (+/- LADA).

>>